[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Brexit A Total Success! Huzzah!

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular


    this thread is worth reading. crudely it discusses the leaked Milne election strategy which targeted 60 conservative seats pointlessly, of which only one was gained (putney)

    part of the goal was to prove that labour had lots of support in non remain areas and to “rip up” the polling... if true it makes the loss much less bizarre as it demonstrates a total failure to marshal resources sensibly. also starving Corbyn sceptic mps of resources, wasting huge amounts of time trying to sabotage Luciana Berger, etc...

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2019
    To be fair, about half of those seats were close margins in 2017

    Margins for all of them were much less close this year, though.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular


    this thread is worth reading. crudely it discusses the leaked Milne election strategy which targeted 60 conservative seats pointlessly, of which only one was gained (putney)

    part of the goal was to prove that labour had lots of support in non remain areas and to “rip up” the polling... if true it makes the loss much less bizarre as it demonstrates a total failure to marshal resources sensibly. also starving Corbyn sceptic mps of resources, wasting huge amounts of time trying to sabotage Luciana Berger, etc...

    Is Milne the worst political strategist of the decade or the century?

    fuck gendered marketing
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »


    this thread is worth reading. crudely it discusses the leaked Milne election strategy which targeted 60 conservative seats pointlessly, of which only one was gained (putney)

    part of the goal was to prove that labour had lots of support in non remain areas and to “rip up” the polling... if true it makes the loss much less bizarre as it demonstrates a total failure to marshal resources sensibly. also starving Corbyn sceptic mps of resources, wasting huge amounts of time trying to sabotage Luciana Berger, etc...

    Is Milne the worst political strategist of the decade or the century?

    Milne has got exactly what he wants.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Have Labour said when the real fight starts?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    The Labour Party has disgraced itself pretty shockingly recently, IMO.

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    klemming wrote: »
    Have Labour said when the real fight starts?

    Several leadership candidates literally said this after the exit poll on Thursday night.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    of course they did.

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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Have Labour said when the real fight starts?

    Several leadership candidates literally said this after the exit poll on Thursday night.
    How likely is it that Labour's leadership has actually been replaced by androids with a limited set of responses that they lean into with mechanical gusto? It would explain a thing or two.

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    That goddamn commemorative Brexit 50p coin is happening again.

    A full million of the original versions were melted down when we didn't leave on October 31st.

    Third time's a charm, right?

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »


    this thread is worth reading. crudely it discusses the leaked Milne election strategy which targeted 60 conservative seats pointlessly, of which only one was gained (putney)

    part of the goal was to prove that labour had lots of support in non remain areas and to “rip up” the polling... if true it makes the loss much less bizarre as it demonstrates a total failure to marshal resources sensibly. also starving Corbyn sceptic mps of resources, wasting huge amounts of time trying to sabotage Luciana Berger, etc...

    Is Milne the worst political strategist of the decade or the century?

    Milne has got exactly what he wants.

    Are you implying he's some sort of Tory agent?

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I think he's more implying that Milne is more interested in internal politics than external ones

    And I dunno. I don't see how his strategy failure helps either. But the internal party politics of Labour are definitely consuming the attention of many in leadership positions way more than they should. Especially as Momentum and Corbyn have spectacularly failed and their strategy has been revealed as disastrous. The parachuting in of Momentum and Leadership approved candidates to seats, especially in the North, has shown itself to be an awful idea.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    I think he's more implying that Milne is more interested in internal politics than external ones

    And I dunno. I don't see how his strategy failure helps either. But the internal party politics of Labour are definitely consuming the attention of many in leadership positions way more than they should. Especially as Momentum and Corbyn have spectacularly failed and their strategy has been revealed as disastrous. The parachuting in of Momentum and Leadership approved candidates to seats, especially in the North, has shown itself to be an awful idea.

    I for one am shocked that the far left is more interested in beating the centre-left then the right. Certainly this was unexpected and has never happened before.

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    I don't think Milne wanted to put his own position and Corbynism in general under existential threat. Momentums grip on the party is weaker now than it has been at any point since they took over. This election was a disaster for them since I think they were imagining another hung parliament/narrow loss scenario that could be spun to give Corbyn another run at it.

    No one can spin this shit into gold. I honestly don't know if the party will survive a failure to eject the far left.

    Casual on
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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    On news, that aren't about Labour, Tesco halted the Christmas cards charity rollout because, well:
    'We thought it was a prank': Girl, 6, finds China prisoner plea in Tesco charity card

    The note urged whoever purchased the cards to contact a British man who had been imprisoned in China in the same jail.

    A six-year-old girl who found a message from a prisoner in China inside a Tesco Christmas card has said she "thought it was a prank".

    Florence Widdicombe told Sky News "it was really weird" to find the note in the charity card.

    The message read: "We are foreign prisoners in Shanghai Qingpu prison China. Forced to work against our will. Please help us and notify human rights organisation."

    Tesco said it was shocked by the find and had started an investigation, and has also stopped working with the Chinese factory where the card - decorated with a kitten wearing a Santa hat - was made.

    The message inside named the former journalist Peter Humphrey as a contact, who spent two years in the same prison.
    Her father Ben Widdicombe said he was unsure of the veracity of the message, but contacted Mr Humphrey.

    He told Sky News: "After some reflection we thought that if someone was genuinely desperate enough to write that card we should take it seriously. When I tracked Peter down on the internet, I came across this story and it became very serious and quite chilling in a way."

    Mr Humphrey said the message from Mr Widdicombe took him back to the "painful two-year period" when he and his wife were imprisoned over "bogus charges".

    Writing in the Sunday Times, Mr Humphrey said he did not know who wrote the message but had "no doubt" they knew him during his time in the prison, which is 62 miles (100km) from the Zheijiang Yunguang Printing factory where the cards are supposed to be made.

    He said ex-prisoners had confirmed that inmates in the foreign prisoner unit "are being forced into mundane manual assembly or packaging tasks" - including packing Christmas cards and gift tags for Tesco for at least the past two years.

    Jesus fucking Christ, that's terrifying.

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I don't think Milne wanted to put his own position and Corbynism in general under existential threat. Momentums grip on the party is weaker now than it has been at any point since they took over. This election was a disaster for them since I think they were imagining another hung parliament/narrow loss scenario that could be spun to give Corbyn another run at it.

    No one can spin this shit into gold. I honestly don't know if the party will survive a failure to eject the far left.

    The party now has a higher percentage of hard left MPs than before the election. The NEC is stocked with Corbyn loyalists. Their position has never been stronger.

    Forming the government is not their goal. Having a platform for their message is the goal.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I don't think Milne wanted to put his own position and Corbynism in general under existential threat. Momentums grip on the party is weaker now than it has been at any point since they took over. This election was a disaster for them since I think they were imagining another hung parliament/narrow loss scenario that could be spun to give Corbyn another run at it.

    No one can spin this shit into gold. I honestly don't know if the party will survive a failure to eject the far left.

    The party now has a higher percentage of hard left MPs than before the election. The NEC is stocked with Corbyn loyalists. Their position has never been stronger.

    Forming the government is not their goal. Having a platform for their message is the goal.

    Converting a major opposition party to a fringe party filled with extremists is a garbage goal, sorry to say.

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    I don't think Milne wanted to put his own position and Corbynism in general under existential threat. Momentums grip on the party is weaker now than it has been at any point since they took over. This election was a disaster for them since I think they were imagining another hung parliament/narrow loss scenario that could be spun to give Corbyn another run at it.

    No one can spin this shit into gold. I honestly don't know if the party will survive a failure to eject the far left.

    The party now has a higher percentage of hard left MPs than before the election. The NEC is stocked with Corbyn loyalists. Their position has never been stronger.

    Forming the government is not their goal. Having a platform for their message is the goal.

    Converting a major opposition party to a fringe party filled with extremists is a garbage goal, sorry to say.

    If course it is a garbage goal. But when you have elected as a leader a fucker who explicitly says that you don't enact change through Parliament this is what happens.

    Corbyn wants to be leading the SWP but likes being an MP to much. That's why he headed up orginisations like Stop The War.

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    The idea is that they're in it for the long-term goal of dismantling capitalism

    Which is why Corbyn can claim he won the election by just putting his message out there and winning the moral argument

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Platy wrote: »
    The idea is that they're in it for the long-term goal of dismantling capitalism

    Which is why Corbyn can claim he won the election by just putting his message out there and winning the moral argument

    There has been a lot of words written already about how giving Tories one of their biggest majority in history is very much not moral, so can't do much besides pointing it out. Again.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    Platy wrote: »
    The idea is that they're in it for the long-term goal of dismantling capitalism

    Which is why Corbyn can claim he won the election by just putting his message out there and winning the moral argument

    There has been a lot of words written already about how giving Tories one of their biggest majority in history is very much not moral, so can't do much besides pointing it out. Again.

    Better to lose with purity and conviction, and your lofty principles intact, than ever compromise or apologize or otherwise dirty your hands with... politics.

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    I think some of the principles contributing to this mess aren't very lofty, like the idea that you absolutely cannot enter into any electoral alliances

    Elldren
  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Tories have been getting themselves all in a lather about getting Big Ben to chime it's bells at 2300 on Brexit day at the end of Jan 2020.

    Fucking pathetic.

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  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    Tories have been getting themselves all in a lather about getting Big Ben to chime it's bells at 2300 on Brexit day at the end of Jan 2020.

    Fucking pathetic.

    I vaguely remember them thinking of something like that for March 29th 2018, the original Brexit date, 4,386 years ago.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Platy wrote: »
    The idea is that they're in it for the long-term goal of dismantling capitalism

    Which is why Corbyn can claim he won the election by just putting his message out there and winning the moral argument

    This way when all the working class suddenly gain pure class consciousness despite past history, there won't be those blairites to stop them from ushering in the revolution.

  • EuphoriacEuphoriac Registered User regular
    Not to be condescending, but when my disabled dad was happy to vote Tory, despite having his PIP assessments failed the last 3 times...there's nowhere near enough class consciousness going around for Labour to be this left. I hate to say it, but moving towards the centre is probably the best way. I just hope they don't adopt a single actual right-wing policy, or try another austerity-style surrender of the argument they did in 2010...

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I think he's more implying that Milne is more interested in internal politics than external ones

    And I dunno. I don't see how his strategy failure helps either. But the internal party politics of Labour are definitely consuming the attention of many in leadership positions way more than they should. Especially as Momentum and Corbyn have spectacularly failed and their strategy has been revealed as disastrous. The parachuting in of Momentum and Leadership approved candidates to seats, especially in the North, has shown itself to be an awful idea.

    I for one am shocked that the far left is more interested in beating the centre-left then the right. Certainly this was unexpected and has never happened before.

    Milne is barking mad, for the record. He is basically a Stalin apologist who wrote a defence of the annexation of Crimea.

    The Labour Party has been taken over by a group of old men whose politics were outdated in the 70s, and who have essentially focused their tactics on controlling all the internal levers of power to ensure that they dominate the Party forever. I think that this is largely because they prefer to be big fish in a small pond. McDonnell, notably, isn't one of these guys. I think he's been out of the inner circle of advisors, strategists, union bosses etc for months now.

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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    The difference between McDonnel and the rest is the McDonnel wanted to stay in the EU.

    He's still all about the direct street action.

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  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
  • 101101 Registered User regular
    Idgi

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  • PerduraboPerdurabo Leeds, UKRegistered User regular
    There was a meme online about her firing stones at squirrels whilst calling them pleb bunnies - she even went out and denied it during the election, rather than ignoring it.

  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    I see yer JK Rowling, keen to move on from outing herself as a massive fucking transphobe has said Voldermort was a nationalist.

    Thirsty for some CyberNats to send her some abuse so she can play the victim card again.

    I'm looking forward to IndyRef2 where no one gives a fucking shit what Rowling says.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I think he's more implying that Milne is more interested in internal politics than external ones

    And I dunno. I don't see how his strategy failure helps either. But the internal party politics of Labour are definitely consuming the attention of many in leadership positions way more than they should. Especially as Momentum and Corbyn have spectacularly failed and their strategy has been revealed as disastrous. The parachuting in of Momentum and Leadership approved candidates to seats, especially in the North, has shown itself to be an awful idea.

    I for one am shocked that the far left is more interested in beating the centre-left then the right. Certainly this was unexpected and has never happened before.

    Milne is barking mad, for the record. He is basically a Stalin apologist who wrote a defence of the annexation of Crimea.

    The Labour Party has been taken over by a group of old men whose politics were outdated in the 70s, and who have essentially focused their tactics on controlling all the internal levers of power to ensure that they dominate the Party forever. I think that this is largely because they prefer to be big fish in a small pond. McDonnell, notably, isn't one of these guys. I think he's been out of the inner circle of advisors, strategists, union bosses etc for months now.

    Milne should really have stuck to writing stories for children

    fuck gendered marketing
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I think he's more implying that Milne is more interested in internal politics than external ones

    And I dunno. I don't see how his strategy failure helps either. But the internal party politics of Labour are definitely consuming the attention of many in leadership positions way more than they should. Especially as Momentum and Corbyn have spectacularly failed and their strategy has been revealed as disastrous. The parachuting in of Momentum and Leadership approved candidates to seats, especially in the North, has shown itself to be an awful idea.

    I for one am shocked that the far left is more interested in beating the centre-left then the right. Certainly this was unexpected and has never happened before.

    Milne is barking mad, for the record. He is basically a Stalin apologist who wrote a defence of the annexation of Crimea.

    The Labour Party has been taken over by a group of old men whose politics were outdated in the 70s, and who have essentially focused their tactics on controlling all the internal levers of power to ensure that they dominate the Party forever. I think that this is largely because they prefer to be big fish in a small pond. McDonnell, notably, isn't one of these guys. I think he's been out of the inner circle of advisors, strategists, union bosses etc for months now.

    Milne should really have stuck to writing stories for children

    No, that's AA Milne. Seamus Milne's other career was as a journeyman Striker playing in the Scottish Leagues. He won the Scottish Challenge Cup.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Solar wrote: »
    I think he's more implying that Milne is more interested in internal politics than external ones

    And I dunno. I don't see how his strategy failure helps either. But the internal party politics of Labour are definitely consuming the attention of many in leadership positions way more than they should. Especially as Momentum and Corbyn have spectacularly failed and their strategy has been revealed as disastrous. The parachuting in of Momentum and Leadership approved candidates to seats, especially in the North, has shown itself to be an awful idea.

    I for one am shocked that the far left is more interested in beating the centre-left then the right. Certainly this was unexpected and has never happened before.

    Milne is barking mad, for the record. He is basically a Stalin apologist who wrote a defence of the annexation of Crimea.

    The Labour Party has been taken over by a group of old men whose politics were outdated in the 70s, and who have essentially focused their tactics on controlling all the internal levers of power to ensure that they dominate the Party forever. I think that this is largely because they prefer to be big fish in a small pond. McDonnell, notably, isn't one of these guys. I think he's been out of the inner circle of advisors, strategists, union bosses etc for months now.

    Milne should really have stuck to writing stories for children

    No, that's AA Milne. Seamus Milne's other career was as a journeyman Striker playing in the Scottish Leagues. He won the Scottish Challenge Cup.

    I see you hadn’t read his Guardian column

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  • Zilla360Zilla360 21st Century. |She/Her| Surreal. Immersive. Earth.Registered User regular
    Government exposes addresses of new year honours recipients.
    More than 1,000 celebrities, government employees and politicians who have received honours had their home and work addresses posted on a government website, the Guardian can reveal.

    The accidental disclosure of the tranche of personal details is likely to be considered a significant security breach, particularly as senior police and Ministry of Defence staff were among those whose addresses were made public.

    Many of the more than a dozen MoD employees and senior counter-terrorism officers who received honours in the new year list had their home addresses revealed in a downloadable list, along with countless others who may believe the disclosure has put them in a vulnerable position.

    Getting doxxed by your own government. What a bunch of Muppets. :rotate:

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  • CroakerBCCroakerBC YorkRegistered User regular
    Sort of tangential, but I’m starting a new job in Toronto next week, hopefully for the lifespan of this government and related economic madness. Finishing packing the suitcase tomorrow. Brexit was absolutely the central factor.

    If anyone ever needs a hand navigating the Canadian immigration system, ping me.

    Also: In absolute bits. Deeply resent that this is where we are.

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  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    edited December 2019
    Sort of want to awesome that, but sort of don't (hard to awesome a post where you're in bits). But either way, all the best for the new gig and life out there. Nice part of the world, as I understand it!

    Jazz on
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  • AlphaRomeroAlphaRomero Registered User regular
    edited December 2019
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    Sort of tangential, but I’m starting a new job in Toronto next week, hopefully for the lifespan of this government and related economic madness. Finishing packing the suitcase tomorrow. Brexit was absolutely the central factor.

    If anyone ever needs a hand navigating the Canadian immigration system, ping me.

    Also: In absolute bits. Deeply resent that this is where we are.

    Can you hook me up with a Canadian passport?

    AlphaRomero on
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