[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Brexit A Total Success! Huzzah!

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    The sources for this seem to be coming from The Sun, so I wouldn’t take it as gospel yet, but Business Insider are reporting that Johnson has canceled his planned trip to D.C. after Trump became “apoplectic” during a phone call with him and slammed the phone down on him.

    Boris Johnson has cancelled his planned trip to the White House after Trump slammed the phone down on him in a moment of 'apoplectic' fury

    Apparently this happened after a series of disputes over Iran, Huawei and the extradition request for the woman who ran over Harry Dunn.

    Desktop Hippie on

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    Karl wrote: »
    BBC News are reporting that Honda's factory in Swindon will close in July 2021. This closure will cost 3,500 jobs.


    I'm seeing people on Reddit say "Well the EU-Japan trade deal means this was going to happen anyway".

    They know we're leaving the EU right?

    The reasoning is:
    - Honda only had a plant in the UK to sell cars into the EU market without tariffs
    - The EU-Japan trade deal means that (within a few years) they'll be able to sell Japanese manufactured cars into the EU market tariff free anyway
    - therefore Honda no longer need a UK plant and wouldn't maintain that capacity

    It doesn't quite stack up, but it is probably true to say that the original rationale that prompted Japanese manufacturers to set up UK plants in the first place is diminished

    It would probably be more accurate to observe that the combination of Brexit and the EU-Japan trade deal makes it likely that once the plants close those jobs are never coming back

    japan on
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  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    The sources for this seem to be coming from The Sun, so I wouldn’t take it as gospel yet, but Business Insider are reporting that Johnson has canceled his planned trip to D.C. after Trump became “apoplectic” during a phone call with him and slammed the phone down on him.

    Boris Johnson has cancelled his planned trip to the White House after Trump slammed the phone down on him in a moment of 'apoplectic' fury

    Apparently this happened after a series of disputes over Iran, Huawei and the extradition request for the woman who ran over Harry Dunn.

    Can i just say how depressing this trailer at the bottom of the linked article is?
    Our Brexit Insider Facebook group is the best place for up-to-date news and analysis about Britain’s departure from the EU, direct from Business Insider’s political reporters. Join here

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    BBC News are reporting that Honda's factory in Swindon will close in July 2021. This closure will cost 3,500 jobs.


    I'm seeing people on Reddit say "Well the EU-Japan trade deal means this was going to happen anyway".

    They know we're leaving the EU right?

    The reasoning is:
    - Honda only had a plant in the UK to sell cars into the EU market without tariffs
    - The EU-Japan trade deal means that (within a few years) they'll be able to sell Japanese manufactured cars into the EU market tariff free anyway
    - therefore Honda no longer need a UK plant and wouldn't maintain that capacity

    It doesn't quite stack up, but it is probably true to say that the original rationale that prompted Japanese manufacturers to set up UK plants in the first place is diminished

    It would probably be more accurate to observe that the combination of Brexit and the EU-Japan trade deal makes it likely that once the plants close those jobs are never coming back

    There's a decent chance they would have kept it going for at least awhile without Brexit because it's already there and going so why not? Transitioning that work to a different plant costs money.

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  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    BBC News are reporting that Honda's factory in Swindon will close in July 2021. This closure will cost 3,500 jobs.


    I'm seeing people on Reddit say "Well the EU-Japan trade deal means this was going to happen anyway".

    They know we're leaving the EU right?

    The reasoning is:
    - Honda only had a plant in the UK to sell cars into the EU market without tariffs
    - The EU-Japan trade deal means that (within a few years) they'll be able to sell Japanese manufactured cars into the EU market tariff free anyway
    - therefore Honda no longer need a UK plant and wouldn't maintain that capacity

    It doesn't quite stack up, but it is probably true to say that the original rationale that prompted Japanese manufacturers to set up UK plants in the first place is diminished

    It would probably be more accurate to observe that the combination of Brexit and the EU-Japan trade deal makes it likely that once the plants close those jobs are never coming back

    There's a decent chance they would have kept it going for at least awhile without Brexit because it's already there and going so why not? Transitioning that work to a different plant costs money.

    Closing a factory in the U.K. so you can increase production in another factory in N.A. or Japan so you can ship cars across an ocean instead of the channel makes as much sense as Brexit.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    BBC News are reporting that Honda's factory in Swindon will close in July 2021. This closure will cost 3,500 jobs.


    I'm seeing people on Reddit say "Well the EU-Japan trade deal means this was going to happen anyway".

    They know we're leaving the EU right?

    The reasoning is:
    - Honda only had a plant in the UK to sell cars into the EU market without tariffs
    - The EU-Japan trade deal means that (within a few years) they'll be able to sell Japanese manufactured cars into the EU market tariff free anyway
    - therefore Honda no longer need a UK plant and wouldn't maintain that capacity

    It doesn't quite stack up, but it is probably true to say that the original rationale that prompted Japanese manufacturers to set up UK plants in the first place is diminished

    It would probably be more accurate to observe that the combination of Brexit and the EU-Japan trade deal makes it likely that once the plants close those jobs are never coming back

    There's a decent chance they would have kept it going for at least awhile without Brexit because it's already there and going so why not? Transitioning that work to a different plant costs money.

    Closing a factory in the U.K. so you can increase production in another factory in N.A. or Japan so you can ship cars across an ocean instead of the channel makes as much sense as Brexit.

    Eh, shipping of the kind they'd use is pretty cheap and cars aren't really something you need to move quickly from factory to market. It's usually more about sunk costs.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I assumed the new factory would be in the EU.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
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  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I assumed the new factory would be in the EU.

    Which the U.K. could of pushed back against if they were still a member.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I assumed the new factory would be in the EU.

    Which the U.K. could of pushed back against if they were still a member.

    Exactly.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    Ringo
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    BBC News are reporting that Honda's factory in Swindon will close in July 2021. This closure will cost 3,500 jobs.


    I'm seeing people on Reddit say "Well the EU-Japan trade deal means this was going to happen anyway".

    They know we're leaving the EU right?

    The reasoning is:
    - Honda only had a plant in the UK to sell cars into the EU market without tariffs
    - The EU-Japan trade deal means that (within a few years) they'll be able to sell Japanese manufactured cars into the EU market tariff free anyway
    - therefore Honda no longer need a UK plant and wouldn't maintain that capacity

    It doesn't quite stack up, but it is probably true to say that the original rationale that prompted Japanese manufacturers to set up UK plants in the first place is diminished

    It would probably be more accurate to observe that the combination of Brexit and the EU-Japan trade deal makes it likely that once the plants close those jobs are never coming back

    There's a decent chance they would have kept it going for at least awhile without Brexit because it's already there and going so why not? Transitioning that work to a different plant costs money.

    Closing a factory in the U.K. so you can increase production in another factory in N.A. or Japan so you can ship cars across an ocean instead of the channel makes as much sense as Brexit.

    Eh, shipping of the kind they'd use is pretty cheap and cars aren't really something you need to move quickly from factory to market. It's usually more about sunk costs.

    No one is shipping mass market cars half way around the world, their shipping costs are enourmas and the delay is intolerable given that modern car-enomoics makes every car bespoke.

    The Swindon Nissan plant was making the wrong kind of cars, its closure has been on the books for a while - Brexit is just the final piece of the puzzle.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    Karl wrote: »
    BBC News are reporting that Honda's factory in Swindon will close in July 2021. This closure will cost 3,500 jobs.


    I'm seeing people on Reddit say "Well the EU-Japan trade deal means this was going to happen anyway".

    They know we're leaving the EU right?

    The reasoning is:
    - Honda only had a plant in the UK to sell cars into the EU market without tariffs
    - The EU-Japan trade deal means that (within a few years) they'll be able to sell Japanese manufactured cars into the EU market tariff free anyway
    - therefore Honda no longer need a UK plant and wouldn't maintain that capacity

    It doesn't quite stack up, but it is probably true to say that the original rationale that prompted Japanese manufacturers to set up UK plants in the first place is diminished

    It would probably be more accurate to observe that the combination of Brexit and the EU-Japan trade deal makes it likely that once the plants close those jobs are never coming back

    There's a decent chance they would have kept it going for at least awhile without Brexit because it's already there and going so why not? Transitioning that work to a different plant costs money.

    Closing a factory in the U.K. so you can increase production in another factory in N.A. or Japan so you can ship cars across an ocean instead of the channel makes as much sense as Brexit.

    Eh, shipping of the kind they'd use is pretty cheap and cars aren't really something you need to move quickly from factory to market. It's usually more about sunk costs.

    No one is shipping mass market cars half way around the world, their shipping costs are enourmas and the delay is intolerable given that modern car-enomoics makes every car bespoke.

    The Swindon Nissan plant was making the wrong kind of cars, its closure has been on the books for a while - Brexit is just the final piece of the puzzle.

    The plant might of stuck around if the Brexit had established the trade terms quickly. Right now they're on a 11 month clock before their just in time pipeline from the continent grinds to a sudden and jarring halt. Until December it seemed possible that Brexit might be soft or delayed. Now it seems to be locked in and going fairly hard. Without nearly seamless border crossing they can't feed that plant or send it's produce to market.

    Without Brexit they may have retooled it but that's a big expense that you'd want to be confident would be paid back. Brexit shattered the faith in the market conditions that let a plant in the UK work as the source for the EU market.

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  • BethrynBethryn Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    a very interesting point i did not realise: a consequence of the paperwork burden on non-eu imports is that broadly our trade with the eu consists of a lot of mixed loads on lorries - ie lots of different goods in a single container, while our imports from elsewhere tend to be a single good ( only one commodity code, only one set of paperwork ). so it is not the case that a lot of our existing eu trade is a move to "the same thing we do for elsewhere", it is "restructure your entire import process in order to make it only just as much of a ballache as importing from elsewhere or pay a freight consolidator for bonus overhead"

    Jesus christ that sounds like a fucking disaster for a ton of businesses.

    it gets even worse if you consider that some goods that are viewed as a nightmare to ship internationally eg things like boxes of belgian chocolates have been getting in via the eu. if u take a bunch of mixed chocolates they might contain some liquers, some containing fruit etc and each of those has an individual commodity code and separate set of forms that must be filled out. if there is an error then it needs to be fixed on the spot - what is the chance ur freight driver knows the exact cacao composition of each individual chocolate, or origin of the fruit? etc. so it is not even the case that u can straightforwardly just divide ur goods up, because some goods are inherently mixed!
    Following onto this, it's probably worth reading this (year old) article on what a day of UK-EU haulage is like:

    https://www.ft.com/content/d2aa1a9c-1d91-11e9-b126-46fc3ad87c65

    (no idea if this is paywalled/IP-gated I'm afraid)

    The Eurotunnel section in particular sticks out. Eurotunnel (or as the company has rebranded itself to now, "Getlink") are promising there will be no friction at all after the actual finalisation of Brexit on the 31st Dec. Everyone who uses it regularly is rightfully skeptical, not just because of the increase in checks, but because - as noted in the article above - there is very little physical room to move vehicles aside into if their documents are not in order. Disruptions affect the entire queue, not just the vehicles in question.

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  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    2016: No checks
    2017: No checks
    2018: Absolutely no checks
    2019: No checks under any circumstances
    2020: We always said there would be checks. That's what you voted for.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    It's fair to say that the new cabinet are not getting off to the best of starts

    Suella Braverman, who is an actual barrister, was dismantled by Krishnan Guru-Murthy armed only with the most pedestrian of questions about the membership of the ERG, now that the cabinet is dominated by them

    Lewis Goodall of Newsnight has been pressing the office of the SoS for NI for clarification of their apparently self contradictory comments re: border checks between GB and NI

    Lots of questions flying around about the conflict of interest presented by Rishi Sunak's past career administering hedge funds in tax havens and his being linked by marriage to a family of billionaires with a direct material interest in UK tax policy

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  • Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    ashcroft published his election post-mortem based on a lot of interviews particularly with people who defected from labour

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/DIAGNOSIS-OF-DEFEAT-LORD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-1.pdf <--- full version there

    flskj9c50dz7.png
    62% of 2017 Labour voters who switched to the Tories, said they would have voted as they did in 2019 even if Brexit had not been at stake.

    non uk person here, trying to wrap my head around this

    that Corbyn = Bad I understand, but the dissonance between Labour leavers saying Brexit wasn't part of their decision and the very same leavers saying Brexit was the most dominant issue this election confounds me

    so they say brexit is important, but not related to their decision to not vote labour? or they're saying brexit isn't important and they decided to leave labour because they disagreed with their policy/didn't think they could implement it?

    trying to suss out what, aside from the disdain for Corbyn as a person, one is supposed to take away from these findings. Is it emotional/ideological detachment from "Young Labour" being appealed to over traditional working class or brexit playing a more significant part in changing people's voting patterns than the people themselves are ready to admit?

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  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Those are only the people who wanted to Leave in January

  • ZiggymonZiggymon Registered User regular
    ashcroft published his election post-mortem based on a lot of interviews particularly with people who defected from labour

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/DIAGNOSIS-OF-DEFEAT-LORD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-1.pdf <--- full version there

    flskj9c50dz7.png
    62% of 2017 Labour voters who switched to the Tories, said they would have voted as they did in 2019 even if Brexit had not been at stake.

    non uk person here, trying to wrap my head around this

    that Corbyn = Bad I understand, but the dissonance between Labour leavers saying Brexit wasn't part of their decision and the very same leavers saying Brexit was the most dominant issue this election confounds me

    so they say brexit is important, but not related to their decision to not vote labour? or they're saying brexit isn't important and they decided to leave labour because they disagreed with their policy/didn't think they could implement it?

    trying to suss out what, aside from the disdain for Corbyn as a person, one is supposed to take away from these findings. Is it emotional/ideological detachment from "Young Labour" being appealed to over traditional working class or brexit playing a more significant part in changing people's voting patterns than the people themselves are ready to admit?

    It's pretty simple, but voters have differentiations as to what the issue with Labour is. The reality is that it was all the aspects you are saying. Labour miscalculated on the importance of Brexit during the election and focused on policies that in reality were 2 years out of date in its effectiveness.
    Anyhow with the way Labour is here is how the Labour Party will read the results

    Translation in Labour speak:

    1) Right Wing media bias demonising saint Corbyn.
    2) Media and Tory lies brainwashed the people
    3) Labour no longer represents those bigots and racists
    4) Labour will only get Brexit done if we stay in the EU.
    5) You are a rich fat cat Tory.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    I'm not sure how much of a twittersphere issue this is, but there is some pretty interesting gossip flying around about Dominic Cummings' new SpAd appointments



    (Alex Wickham is at BuzzFeed politics)

    I haven't seen a huge amount of mainstream coverage of Sabisky, but some of his more delightful opinions include:
    - arguing in favour of eugenics
    - mandatory contraception for the poor
    - policy measures to "discourage" women from attending university, so that their most fertile years aren't "wasted"
    - defunding women's sport and the Paralympics
    - bell curve bullshit in regard to intelligence among black men

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    I'm not sure how much of a twittersphere issue this is, but there is some pretty interesting gossip flying around about Dominic Cummings' new SpAd appointments



    (Alex Wickham is at BuzzFeed politics)

    I haven't seen a huge amount of mainstream coverage of Sabisky, but some of his more delightful opinions include:
    - arguing in favour of eugenics
    - mandatory contraception for the poor
    - policy measures to "discourage" women from attending university, so that their most fertile years aren't "wasted"
    - defunding women's sport and the Paralympics
    - bell curve bullshit in regard to intelligence among black men

    So THAT'S what "too disgusting even for a Tory" looks like? Kinda surprised TBH I expected a lot of that to be foundational thinking in varying degrees for a common Tory.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    They're not supposed to say it, though

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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Casual wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    I'm not sure how much of a twittersphere issue this is, but there is some pretty interesting gossip flying around about Dominic Cummings' new SpAd appointments



    (Alex Wickham is at BuzzFeed politics)

    I haven't seen a huge amount of mainstream coverage of Sabisky, but some of his more delightful opinions include:
    - arguing in favour of eugenics
    - mandatory contraception for the poor
    - policy measures to "discourage" women from attending university, so that their most fertile years aren't "wasted"
    - defunding women's sport and the Paralympics
    - bell curve bullshit in regard to intelligence among black men

    So THAT'S what "too disgusting even for a Tory" looks like? Kinda surprised TBH I expected a lot of that to be foundational thinking in varying degrees for a common Tory.

    I guess Tories need to tell themselves that they don't actively want to kill the poor. They want to cut costs, balance the budget, enrich themselves and their friends from college, let the free market take care of things, whatever, and just so happen to create circumstances in which the poor die more easily.

    And then this guy comes along and says that, no, actually, he really does just want to kill the poor.

    WotanAnubis on
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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I know the Tories have had a few female leaders now, albeit with some wierd "tell me I've been a naughty boy please nanny" undercurrents but at the grassroots level they're still catching up to the whole "women are people too" thing. Let's face it JRM thinks his wife is a cook/babymaker and do you really think there aren't many more like him in the mix?

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    I'm not sure how much of a twittersphere issue this is, but there is some pretty interesting gossip flying around about Dominic Cummings' new SpAd appointments



    (Alex Wickham is at BuzzFeed politics)

    I haven't seen a huge amount of mainstream coverage of Sabisky, but some of his more delightful opinions include:
    - arguing in favour of eugenics
    - mandatory contraception for the poor
    - policy measures to "discourage" women from attending university, so that their most fertile years aren't "wasted"
    - defunding women's sport and the Paralympics
    - bell curve bullshit in regard to intelligence among black men

    So THAT'S what "too disgusting even for a Tory" looks like? Kinda surprised TBH I expected a lot of that to be foundational thinking in varying degrees for a common Tory.

    I guess Tories need to tell themselves that they don't actively want to kill the poor. They want to cut costs, balance the budget, enrich themselves and their friends from college, let the free market takes care of things, whatever, and just so happen to create circumstances in which the poor die more easily.

    And then this guy comes along and says that, no, actually, he really does just want to kill the poor.

    My uninformed bet is that is about the focus. Focusing on killing the poor as a goal instead of just a natural consequence of fueling wealth upwards seems so....pedestrian and low class. Likely they don't want someone focused on what the peasants are doing instead of making money.

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  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    I mean, those beliefs may be about killing the poor but only as a way of targeting killing the brown people. It’s clearly all about a perceived race competition where we need to outbreed them to win.

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    I mean, those beliefs may be about killing the poor but only as a way of targeting killing the brown people. It’s clearly all about a perceived race competition where we need to outbreed them to win.

    I'm not saying the Tories aren't racist, I mean no one wants to die on that particular hill, but at the same time I see no evidence that they're not happy for the white poor to die of easily preventable causes. I mean shit, as soon as robots are good enough to dig ditches and scrub toilets they'll have no use for other humans at all.

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    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
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  • RingoRingo HE KEEPS REPEATING THE LINE I'M GONNA CRY BLEASE LET HIM LIVE YOU MADE ME WATCH SO MUCH KISSING IN THIS FILM LET INIGO LIVERegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I mean, those beliefs may be about killing the poor but only as a way of targeting killing the brown people. It’s clearly all about a perceived race competition where we need to outbreed them to win.

    I'm not saying the Tories aren't racist, I mean no one wants to die on that particular hill, but at the same time I see no evidence that they're not happy for the white poor to die of easily preventable causes. I mean shit, as soon as robots are good enough to dig ditches and scrub toilets they'll have no use for other humans at all.

    Being rich barely means anything if you aren't elevated above the suffering and indignities of the common man

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    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular

    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

    I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    ashcroft published his election post-mortem based on a lot of interviews particularly with people who defected from labour

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/DIAGoNOSIS-OF-DEFEAT-LORD-ASHCROFT-POLLS-1.pdf <--- full version there

    flskj9c50dz7.png
    62% of 2017 Labour voters who switched to the Tories, said they would have voted as they did in 2019 even if Brexit had not been at stake.

    non uk person here, trying to wrap my head around this

    that Corbyn = Bad I understand, but the dissonance between Labour leavers saying Brexit wasn't part of their decision and the very same leavers saying Brexit was the most dominant issue this election confounds me

    so they say brexit is important, but not related to their decision to not vote labour? or they're saying brexit isn't important and they decided to leave labour because they disagreed with their policy/didn't think they could implement it?

    trying to suss out what, aside from the disdain for Corbyn as a person, one is supposed to take away from these findings. Is it emotional/ideological detachment from "Young Labour" being appealed to over traditional working class or brexit playing a more significant part in changing people's voting patterns than the people themselves are ready to admit?

    Its the difference between “the reason i had” and “my perceptions of the election”.

    wbBv3fj.png
    Julius
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    I mean, those beliefs may be about killing the poor but only as a way of targeting killing the brown people. It’s clearly all about a perceived race competition where we need to outbreed them to win.

    I'm not saying the Tories aren't racist, I mean no one wants to die on that particular hill, but at the same time I see no evidence that they're not happy for the white poor to die of easily preventable causes. I mean shit, as soon as robots are good enough to dig ditches and scrub toilets they'll have no use for other humans at all.

    That’s what I mean. Standard Tories end up discriminating against race as a side effect of discrimination against the poor. This new guy clearly discriminates directly against race and isn’t subtle about it. Hence why they can be up in arms about him.

    MhCw7nZ.gif
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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    Casual wrote: »
    I mean, those beliefs may be about killing the poor but only as a way of targeting killing the brown people. It’s clearly all about a perceived race competition where we need to outbreed them to win.

    I'm not saying the Tories aren't racist, I mean no one wants to die on that particular hill, but at the same time I see no evidence that they're not happy for the white poor to die of easily preventable causes. I mean shit, as soon as robots are good enough to dig ditches and scrub toilets they'll have no use for other humans at all.

    That’s what I mean. Standard Tories end up discriminating against race as a side effect of discrimination against the poor. This new guy clearly discriminates directly against race and isn’t subtle about it. Hence why they can be up in arms about him.

    Also, he sounds like a bore. Can you imagine being around one of those guys that always complains about what the peasants are doing instead of, you know, just relaxing and snorting coke from a hooker's ass enjoying their wealth like, you know, normal people?

    TryCatcher on
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  • GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    edited February 16
    .
    japan wrote: »
    I'm not sure how much of a twittersphere issue this is, but there is some pretty interesting gossip flying around about Dominic Cummings' new SpAd appointments



    (Alex Wickham is at BuzzFeed politics)

    I haven't seen a huge amount of mainstream coverage of Sabisky, but some of his more delightful opinions include:
    - arguing in favour of eugenics
    - mandatory contraception for the poor
    - policy measures to "discourage" women from attending university, so that their most fertile years aren't "wasted"
    - defunding women's sport and the Paralympics
    - bell curve bullshit in regard to intelligence among black men

    I've literally never heard any of these opinions from him, or anything along these lines. He's never advocated any of these positions to me, or anything like these positions.

    I get the feeling that this is a bit of a media hatchet job on him as the old SPADs are booted out of government. Still, can't say what I've seen today's been completely normal.

    Odd day.

    Gumpy on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    I'm missing something, I think. Why would you be surprised at these opinions from a guy most people had never heard of until this story broke? The stories cite posts by him on websites, so they're opinions he's either publicly expressed or he's got an incredible libel case that'll make him very rich.

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  • GumpyGumpy There is always a greater powerRegistered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    I'm missing something, I think. Why would you be surprised at these opinions from a guy most people had never heard of until this story broke? The stories cite posts by him on websites, so they're opinions he's either publicly expressed or he's got an incredible libel case that'll make him very rich.

    Dude's a friend of a friend, so I've run into him three or four times in the last couple of years. I don't know him well enough to give a character reference, but every time I've chatted to him I've not seen a person who fits the above characterisation.

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Next time you chat, casually bring up killing the poor and check his reaction

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Next time you chat, casually bring up killing the poor and check his reaction

    Ask him if he sued Mitchell and Webb for plagiarism.

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  • Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    edited February 17


    Sounds like a one of thise guys who give student level political comments all over twitter but he is part of the goivernment.

    Mc zany on
  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    I guess he just decides not to lead with eugenics and racism when he meets new people.

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  • JazzJazz Fuck cancer. Un-UKRegistered User regular
    No 10 refuses to comment on PM's views of racial IQ
    Boris Johnson’s spokesman has refused to say whether the prime minister thinks black people have lower IQs on average, or agrees with eugenics, after No 10 hired an adviser with highly controversial views.

    ...

    “The prime minister’s views are well publicised and well documented,” the spokesman said more than 10 times, when asked to give Johnson’s views on the intelligence of black people and eugenics, the study of methods to selectively breed people to improve the human race.

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Jazz wrote: »
    No 10 refuses to comment on PM's views of racial IQ
    Boris Johnson’s spokesman has refused to say whether the prime minister thinks black people have lower IQs on average, or agrees with eugenics, after No 10 hired an adviser with highly controversial views.

    ...

    “The prime minister’s views are well publicised and well documented,” the spokesman said more than 10 times, when asked to give Johnson’s views on the intelligence of black people and eugenics, the study of methods to selectively breed people to improve the human race.

    What abject, absolute, utter cowardice. Firing Sabisky should be the easiest thing in the world. It should be the most basic of steps to rectify this. It’s not like he’s made any secret of his views. It’s not like any government in 2020 should have anyone with those views in any role, official or unofficial. Instead Johnson keeps him on and pleads that he doesn’t agree? Pathetic.

    Just how much hold over Johnson does Cummings have?


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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    I imagine they've calculated that the only people who'll be pleased by firing this guy are already anti-Tory and some of the ones they'd upset by firing him are currently Tory so just shrug it off and wait until it blows over. The vast majority of people won't care about this or even hear about it, and they have no personal sense of shame now, so there's no impetus to sack him or even scold his views publicly.

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