[BATTLETECH/MechWarrior] More 'Mech action than you can shake an UrbanMech at!

1353638404143

Posts

  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    The Phoenix Hawk, Rifleman, Archer, Warhammer, and Marauder all get unique equipment that make them quite a bit stronger than their tonnage. So you can certainly take on assault mechs with them, though the damage you may take could make it difficult to do such high difficulty missions one after another.

    However, it's not quite the right question to ask since you can play the career forever without ever taking a mission with enemies heavier than lights and mediums. Like in my case, I'd guess I haven't actually used an assault mech in my lance in probably the past 100 hours of gameplay as the various mods I've been playing and other things I've been doing have no "requirement" for it and "get a full lance of assault mechs" is not an end goal in and of itself for me. So while I have a cargo hold full of assaults, I just don't use them. Plus I find "all assaults" missions kind of a tedious slog and for me the game feels at its best around the 180-220 lance tonnage range.

    Now if the question were "is it viable to get a really high score in the 1200 day limit without assault mechs", probably not as you need to be pushing pretty hard on the high difficultly missions to hit some of the score targets and you can't be losing too much downtime to repairs.

    SiliconStew on
    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    Iolo
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Started a new campaign because I'd forgotten so much of how to play, I needed a refresher- that and it's just plain goddamn fun.

    What's not so fun is realizing I have to figure out how to make a Spider not a deathtrap- pretty much by just finding anything at all to replace it. The Blackjack, Vindicator, and Phoenix Hawk are still pretty damn solid mechs, but the sooner I get rid of this Spider, the better.

    I have a Locust-1V and a Commando-2D in reserve- something's got to go to make some space anyways. Which would be better (because I'm tired of having to pay c-bills to put the damn arms back on the Spider after every damned mission)?

    steam_sig.png
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    The Commando packs a reasonable punch and has some armor. You still don't want it on the front lines, but it's a useful addition.

    The Spider is only good for burning C-Bills and playing roulette with the pilot IMO.

  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Yeah, I was thinking the Commando, and sacking the Spider and the Locust will give me a nice cushion of money until I can patch together something bigger out of salvage or parts- mostly parts because salvage is just really lights and weapons and the like already.

    steam_sig.png
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    I've had a bunch of base destruction missions in a row on a Lunar biome and I realize now that Battletech is missing something crucial: I can't punch a building to pieces. WTF HBS, worst game ever.

    PeasNipsBullheadGnome-InterruptusElvenshae
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    I'll occasionally drop a Spider as a 1 person lance to cheese Recovery missions. Max jumpjets, max front armor, single small laser since the game won't let you build a mech with no weapons, rest of tonnage in back armor. Move up to a point you can reach the target circle in a single max-range jump, reserve down to phase 1, jump in putting your front towards the closest enemy in case they do get a shot off, end turn, jump out in phase 4/5, and just max-range jump all the way to the evac point. Makes 5 skull Recoveries no more difficult than a 0.5 skull. Though from experience, I would recommend using your commander as the lone pilot so if your luck is especially bad and you blind jump next to a Demolisher and it leaves a flaming hole where your chest used to be, you aren't permanently out a pilot.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    OrcaPeasNipsIoloBetsunicB557BullheadMoridin889GiantGeek2020Gnome-Interruptus
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Went with the Commando, and I think I like this build:

    I pulled the SRMs and the ammo that came with it, as well as the ML. In its place, I threw on three LRM5s and three bins of ammo. It keeps it out of the line of fire and I can just chunk at stuff for a difference- might make it kinda delicate, but better that than putting a Commando in harm's way by chucking SRMs.

    steam_sig.png
    BetsuniElvenshae
  • IoloIolo iolo Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    Went with the Commando, and I think I like this build:

    I pulled the SRMs and the ammo that came with it, as well as the ML. In its place, I threw on three LRM5s and three bins of ammo. It keeps it out of the line of fire and I can just chunk at stuff for a difference- might make it kinda delicate, but better that than putting a Commando in harm's way by chucking SRMs.

    That is a very clever early LRM boat! I never thought of using a Commando like that.

    I can't imagine you'll go through even half that ammo on most missions. If you are ending with a surplus, you might have room to drop a ton and add an ML or some more armor.

    Lt. Iolo's First Day
    Steam profile.
    Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
    SiliconStewNipsElvenshae
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    Iolo wrote: »
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    Went with the Commando, and I think I like this build:

    I pulled the SRMs and the ammo that came with it, as well as the ML. In its place, I threw on three LRM5s and three bins of ammo. It keeps it out of the line of fire and I can just chunk at stuff for a difference- might make it kinda delicate, but better that than putting a Commando in harm's way by chucking SRMs.

    That is a very clever early LRM boat! I never thought of using a Commando like that.

    I can't imagine you'll go through even half that ammo on most missions. If you are ending with a surplus, you might have room to drop a ton and add an ML or some more armor.

    Yeah, my general rule of thumb is carry enough ammo for each weapon to fire 10-12 times. If it is 8 or less, I'm likely to run out during most missions so I should probably add more ammo, if above 14-15, I'm never going to run out on a mission so I should probably remove ammo. That Commando has enough ammo to fire 24 times. I'd definitely drop one ton of ammo for something else.

    SiliconStew on
    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    OrcaBullhead
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    I've found ~15 is the sweet spot for me--less and I find myself running out on any long but regular mission (e.g. one that ends up with 3 hostile lances in my lap). More than that isn't necessary except for e.g. Attack and Defend or similar (which can have up to 5 lances plus hostile turrets and an enemy base to take out).

    10 is enough for your standard 1-2 hostile lances. Less than 10 I do not advise, ever.

    IoloGnome-Interruptus
  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    Went with the Commando, and I think I like this build:

    I pulled the SRMs and the ammo that came with it, as well as the ML. In its place, I threw on three LRM5s and three bins of ammo. It keeps it out of the line of fire and I can just chunk at stuff for a difference- might make it kinda delicate, but better that than putting a Commando in harm's way by chucking SRMs.

    I actually ran a similar build in MWO when I first started out. I changed that out after getting complaints after a while and realizing that lights are protectors, harassers, and assassins.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
    Gnome-InterruptusElvenshae
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    I might drop it to two bins and bulk up the armor just in case- the Commando’s big weakness is that two of its three missile hard points are on an arm, and one good shot could kill two-thirds of its firepower. So boosting the armor on the arm and the torso by the arm sounds good.

    But yeah, I just started messing around with it- nobody in their right mind would take this thing into SRM range because if it doesn’t kill, there’s going to be a flaming wreck where it used to be next turn because it’s still a light mech. But loading it up with LRMs solves that problem as long as you can send out a bigger mech (Blackjack or Phoenix Hawk work well) to tank and draw fire. I don’t know how the range of an ML compares, but getting into range for the ML might put the mech at risk of drawing fire. But three LRM5s can sit in cover and plink away while the others trade shots and spot.

    steam_sig.png
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    Reinstalled this for the first time in awhile since I wanted to get my mech on, and was also hoping they'd toned down the "every mission has turn one reinforcements that are usually in superior mechs" thing so it was possible to actually play the game instead of watching extended cutscenes of the enemy stomping on me.

    Fourth mission (not fourth priority or anything; the fourth time I accepted a contract at all) my starting lance gets trashed in two turns because at least three of the eight mostly-heavier mechs on the map had, among other things, LRM20s and, somehow, superior initiative.

    Well, I got my mech on, at least.

    Sigh.

    Is it, like, actually possible to progress past the first couple of missions in this without assuming you're going to have to spend six weeks rebuilding the company from scratch after every other contract, or is "unfair mechanics are fun" actually part of the core game officially?

    Zibblsnrt on
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Yeah, I didn't feel like the game was that punishing when I played it. Are you picking missions of appropriate challenge rating?

    OrcaGnome-Interruptus
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Like I said, it was my fourth contract. I hadn't progressed far enough to see excessive challenge ratings. It was a 1.5-skull drop where my starting mechs ran into about 350 tons of opposition right away.

  • IoloIolo iolo Registered User regular
    Did you pick up a save game? You shouldn't be facing LRM20s in the fourth mission you take in a new game. Maybe start fresh in a new campaign or career and get your sea legs back?

    Lt. Iolo's First Day
    Steam profile.
    Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    And yet, here I am, facing LRM20s that early in this new install on a new PC that has no savegames stored on it and which didn't matter anyway because I started a new campaign which I thought would be implied by specifying twice that it was the fourth contract I took.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    When you’re first starting out, only go after the half skull rating missions. 1.5 skull is going to be too difficult when you don't have your mech legs under you and you've got 2 45 ton mediums and a couple 30 ton lights. Once you're comfortable with the 0.5 skull ones, go after the 1 skull. And so on. But remember: the rating lies! It can have up to a +/-1.5 skull difference from what it's rated at! So if things start going south, smash that withdraw button all the way over in the upper-right-hand corner. You lose some rep, but it's better than losing mechs and people early on.

    Reload as well if things are looking stupid early on--you get an autosave before you start the missions, though not one while in the mission. So you can decide to nope out of a mission you mistakenly took and didn't realize you'd be going up against 3 full lances of fully repaired 55 ton mediums with your starter lance.

    Orca on
    JaysonFourExtreaminatusGnome-Interruptus
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    There's no shame in just going "nope, I'm out" if you're ending up against an opfor that grossly outclasses you. You're being paid to fight, not to die. Client might be a little pissed, as will the MRB, but you're going to be taking so many contracts over a campaign that this is pretty much a drop in the bucket.

    steam_sig.png
    OrcaNipsGnome-Interruptus
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    1.5 skull target weight is like 150t. So 2 mediums and 2 lights.... but it’s also like “have pilot skills” and “lance has a bit of cohesion” and “lance has been refit at least once”. It’s possible to run it on the first planet if you get lucky, but it’s never gonna be easy.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    So I'm into the game proper now- claimed the wreck of the Argo and got it flying again, and I was extremely happy I had my three tons of ammo on my Commando- I was down to two salvos left (though it wouldn't have had to do as much if the damned Quickdraw hadn't blown off my Blackjack's arms).

    But I think its time in the sun is over- now that I have a full squad of mediums (and a few extra mechs in storage for emergency funds as needed), I might go do something crazy now- refit the Centurion into a brawler (a.k.a. slap a big-ass AC on it with a few tons of ammo) and go ass-kicking up close. I hear it can hold an AC/20, but it's a) in the goddamned arm, and b) it'd be that and only that for a weapon, but it could hold full armor and get ten shots- then again, there's not a whole hell of a lot that can take a shot from an AC/20 and live this early in the game. I might just turn it into a sniper with a decent melee attack- yeah, it can't shoot a lot, but goddamn can it put a hurting on something when it does.

    Or I could turn it into a missile boat with its three missile hardpoints- maybe make an SRM boat, or load it up with some LRM10s or even 15s.

    I could also mess around with the Shadow Hawk and tinker that into an LRM boat with some decent armor: it's got three missile points itself.

    steam_sig.png
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    The Centurion can do all three roles well. The Shadowhawk’s third missile slot is in the head though so it’s not as good. Both are solid mecha to take into your medium career.

    IoloNipsMoridin889Elvenshae
  • IoloIolo iolo Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    The AC20 Centurion is very attractive. If you don't have pilots with good enough Guts to avoid the refire penalties to drive it, it's not going to be operating at peak efficiency.

    Iolo on
    Lt. Iolo's First Day
    Steam profile.
    Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
    Orca
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Ahhh...Phoenix Hawk PHX-1B, how I've missed you.

    2x Snub PPC (1x +10 damage, 1x -5 heat since I don't have a second +10 dam one)
    4x MG (not the extra shots ones...yet...) plus one ton of ammo
    1 heatsink
    4 jump jets
    720 armor

    Generates no net heat outside of jumps when firing a full alpha strike.

    Let's go tear some heavies backs apart!

    NipsIoloBetsuniGnome-Interruptus
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Iolo wrote: »
    The AC20 Centurion is very attractive. If you don't have pilots with good enough Guts to avoid the refire penalties to drive it, it's not going to be operating a peak efficiency.

    The other thing to consider is that like the Hunchback 4G, it's a one trick pony. It's one hell of a trick, but it's not very flexible.

    Moridin889
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Are LRM/SRM stability boats still a thing? I've been trying to make it work, but even with two fully-kitted mechs with LRMs/SRMs up the ass, I can't seem to consistently knock down other mechs.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    It's kind of a pain in the ass. Early on it's doable, but once enemy pilots need more than 3 bars of stability to knock over I feel like it's not worthwhile anymore.

    At 2 bars? Yeah, definitely. At 3? Yeah, I can make that work. 4? Meh, easier to just blow their head off.

  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    I was still using it in my play through, if for no other reason to allow my KGCs to Bulwark and to still allow my MAD to do what it did best with the free Called Shots.

    Nobody on
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    My new career is an ironman one, not on purpose but I'll roll with it.

    I'll delay my focus on any silly ideas in lieu of survival for now. At least I didn't start with a Locust.

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    The Locust: for when you thought the Spider wasn't shitty enough!

    Elvenshae
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    I'm looking at trying to upgrade my lance from the starting stuff right now- been really struggling with some 1.5 skull missions when I have a two-skull loadout, so either the RNG is trying to screw me something fierce, or I need to at least rebuild the Vindicator and Shadow Hawk from something fierce. I'm also really, really hating anything to do with fucking convoys or base defense... so I'm tearing apart my AC/20 Centurion and making it a brand-spanking new LRM boat so I can load up with some nice presents to drop on heads.

    Also, question: I'm hitting a rather... odd error on my game: I'm trying to start a mission where I have a VIP along for the ride in a Griffin, who wants to do some patrolling to show they're all tough and stuff- but every time I try to start the mission, it loads, but then it stutters a bit before crashing to desktop. I mean, what gives? Going to try a re-install and clearing out some old saves to see if that'll clear that up- might have been it hasn't been played in so long something got screwed up and a fresh install will deal with that.

    steam_sig.png
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    I'm looking at trying to upgrade my lance from the starting stuff right now- been really struggling with some 1.5 skull missions when I have a two-skull loadout, so either the RNG is trying to screw me something fierce, or I need to at least rebuild the Vindicator and Shadow Hawk from something fierce. I'm also really, really hating anything to do with fucking convoys or base defense... so I'm tearing apart my AC/20 Centurion and making it a brand-spanking new LRM boat so I can load up with some nice presents to drop on heads.

    Also, question: I'm hitting a rather... odd error on my game: I'm trying to start a mission where I have a VIP along for the ride in a Griffin, who wants to do some patrolling to show they're all tough and stuff- but every time I try to start the mission, it loads, but then it stutters a bit before crashing to desktop. I mean, what gives? Going to try a re-install and clearing out some old saves to see if that'll clear that up- might have been it hasn't been played in so long something got screwed up and a fresh install will deal with that.

    In the past I ran into a similar problem except it would just hang while loading. I ended up simply not taking that mission and moving on with my life.

  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    Reinstall cleared it right up. Mission turned out to be a freaking milk run, and I made goddamned bank off that fight- almost 800k C-bills for mopping up a few lights and safeguarding a VIP looking for a photo-op. (I was nice enough to let her blow the last one up.)

    Swapped out my AC/20 onto my Shadow Hawk, and it's doing much better there- and thanks to a little prize I found in the store- an LRM20+++ (+2 stability damage, +50% crit rate), it knocked about three mechs on their asses that mission. Combined with precision shot, well... I could do bad things with this Centurion...

    JaysonFour on
    steam_sig.png
    IoloBetsuniOrcaFishmanGnome-InterruptusTox
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    And...purchased my last Atlas piece. First assault is an Atlas 7D.

    I've only got two heavies in my stable.

    Man that last patch messed up progression but good.

    Maybe I'll keep it marginally fair by just moving ammo into the legs and not making any other modifications until I start tackling those 5 skull missions...

    BetsuniNipsTynnan
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Are LRM/SRM stability boats still a thing? I've been trying to make it work, but even with two fully-kitted mechs with LRMs/SRMs up the ass, I can't seem to consistently knock down other mechs.

    Yes but no

    In order to knock a target over you need to hit it at least twice. Once to make it unstable and once to knock it down. A mech cannot be knocked down unless it was unstable before the attack started. This is really hard on anything but light/medium mechs and harder as the game goes on. And even if you could do it reliably you’re going to be using half your mechs just to maybe set up the other half? You would do better just having 4 killers.

    But...

    Being able to make mechs unstable is really valuable since instability cancels all evasion pips and bracing status. It also tends to make the AI want to move and brace in order to clear its stability damage. So even if you don’t knock the target over it’s likely some soft CC. (Unless it’s a pilot)

    wbBv3fj.png
    OrcaInquisitor77Gnome-InterruptusNipsMoridin889
  • BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Are LRM/SRM stability boats still a thing? I've been trying to make it work, but even with two fully-kitted mechs with LRMs/SRMs up the ass, I can't seem to consistently knock down other mechs.

    Yes but no

    In order to knock a target over you need to hit it at least twice. Once to make it unstable and once to knock it down. A mech cannot be knocked down unless it was unstable before the attack started. This is really hard on anything but light/medium mechs and harder as the game goes on. And even if you could do it reliably you’re going to be using half your mechs just to maybe set up the other half? You would do better just having 4 killers.

    But...

    Being able to make mechs unstable is really valuable since instability cancels all evasion pips and bracing status. It also tends to make the AI want to move and brace in order to clear its stability damage. So even if you don’t knock the target over it’s likely some soft CC. (Unless it’s a pilot)

    Also by late game I could easily knock down a mech in one turn by focus firing on it - between the UAC/20 on one mech, the 4xAC/5s on another, a PPC + LRM, and another LRM I could rip just about any mech's stability clean off in one round, two tops (if they don't brace/vigilance, which they regularly will not). And once they're on the ground (especially an assualt) you can then get free called shots to leg/core/whatever it.

    camo_sig2.png
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    One Big Steel Claw vs. an SLDF Phoenix Hawk. Who wins? Who loses?

    *one targeted salvo to the back later*

    Okay, who ELSE loses?

    NipsElvenshae
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    So I’m going to finally rebuild the Vindicator I got in the starter pack. What do you guys think- pull the PPC and turn it into a disco ball of MLs, or keep the PPC and toss on something like an SRM-6?

    steam_sig.png
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    So I’m going to finally rebuild the Vindicator I got in the starter pack. What do you guys think- pull the PPC and turn it into a disco ball of MLs, or keep the PPC and toss on something like an SRM-6?

    I think I went something like PPC/LLas/MLas and just sniped with it (the MLas for if something got close enough and I happened to be out of heat margin). Disco ball works too, or dropping the PPC for a large laser and swapping the LRMs for SRMs. I'm not a fan of the LRM5; it doesn't deal enough damage to be worth a damn IMO, and it's a spread-out damage besides.

  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Oof. My loot crate Assassin lost both its legs during a DFA attack. And the very next mission I lost one my pilots and her Commando.

    This ironman career run, 3 missions in, is a bust.

Sign In or Register to comment.