[BATTLETECH/MechWarrior] More 'Mech action than you can shake an UrbanMech at!

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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    So I’m going to finally rebuild the Vindicator I got in the starter pack. What do you guys think- pull the PPC and turn it into a disco ball of MLs, or keep the PPC and toss on something like an SRM-6?

    I liked my vindicators with MLs and SRMs or PPC / LL and LRMs

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    I could do that... or a new option has presented itself: I completed Weldry last night (the prison mission) and the entire Trebuchet in the encounter dropped. It’s got one fewer energy hardpoint, but packs two missile points instead. How viable is a 2xPPC 2xLRM15 build?

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  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    edited September 14
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    I could do that... or a new option has presented itself: I completed Weldry last night (the prison mission) and the entire Trebuchet in the encounter dropped. It’s got one fewer energy hardpoint, but packs two missile points instead. How viable is a 2xPPC 2xLRM15 build?

    That's just a ridiculous amount of heat. PPCs in general have very bad damage to heat ratio.

    ETA: Also that's 24 tons when Trebuchets only have 26.5 free tons. So it'd be a non-armored Trebuchet with almost no ammo and no heat sinks. It would generate 68 extra heat per alpha. :D

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Eh, it was a pie-in-the-Sky idea anyways. Could make it a disco ball with some SRM support, then.

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  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    My early vindicator was a disco ball of ML. It worked.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    In general I'm not a fan of PPCs. They inflict an enormous heat penalty--2x that of a Large Laser!--and are heavier to boot. In exchange you get a much longer range (not usually helpful the way I play the game, YMMV), and 10 more damage. The extra 10 damage is nice, but not a game-changer unless paired with a +5 damage variant and a mech with +20% energy damage by some mechanism, which turns it into a one-round-to-heatshot weapon. A Phoenix Hawk that has just jumped, or a Warhammer can turn a PPC +5 damage into a headshot machine. Doubly so if you've gotten your hands on the SLDF versions which can accept the heat of two PPCs without flinching.

    In short: generally avoid PPCs unless you specifically want the debuff and range, and are willing to accept a pretty big reduction in firepower to accommodate it.

    Snub PPCs are a different story. They don't have the same single location punch, and their range is halfway between a medium laser and a large laser, but the +damage version can do a ridiculous 125 damage on a single 6 ton energy mount (albeit at a 35 heat hit). If that's going into the back of a mech, you'll be hitting one of only three components so the spread isn't a big deal.

    Typically I'll replace PPCs with Large Lasers, and use the extra tonnage to mount more heat sinks, Medium Lasers, SRMs, etc. But I also like to get up close and personal. If you like to snipe you may be happier with the PPCs--at least in moderation. It's rare I'll mount more than one on a non-SLDF mech due to the heat they inflict.

    I've found I'll use PPCs on: Panthers, Vindicators, and as one weapon in the suite for Warhammers or gimmick Phoenix Hawks. Elsewhere I reach for Large Lasers, or ACs/UACs if available on the mech and I want both range and single location firepower. Or snub PPCs on that gimmick Phoenix Hawk.

    As always:
    * Small lasers give high damage per weight and heat at the cost of point blank range
    * Medium lasers give maximum damage per weight at the cost of significant heat and middling range
    * Large lasers give okay damage per weight and good range at the cost of heavy heat and nontrivial weight
    * ER Lasers are similar to their unmodified versions with significantly higher heat, somewhat higher damage, and longer range. In general not worth it, but have some use in the lower heat/lower weight ++ variants
    * Pulse lasers are similar to their unmodified versions with significantly higher heat, and much higher damage. Can be worthwhile in the ++ variants; the baseline ones I would avoid.
    * PPCs have extreme range and high single component damage plus a debuff at the cost of significant weight (7 tons) and incredible heat buildup.
    * Snub PPCs have okay range and can deal insane damage for their weight in the +10 damage variant at the cost of incredible heat buildup.
    * SRMs give good damage per weight and have middling range at the cost of delivering a shotgun blast of damage. On the other hand, up to 72 damage in 4 tons for 12 heat is hard to argue with for the +++ variant.
    * LRMs have extreme range and unique indirect fire at the cost of middling damage per weight and sandpapering their target (unless fired by an Archer)
    * ACs have high single component damage and low heat at the cost of middling to extremely high weight (17 tons for an AC/20 plus enough ammo to use it!). Sidenote: AC/2s are a waste of space, never use them. AC/10s are in a weird space where it's not too much more weight to just go with an AC/20, or save weight without giving up too much damage by dropping back to an AC/5. That said, if you spot an AC/10 +damage, pick it up because that is an ideal weapon for headshots. AC/5s and AC/20s are workhorses that will do good service throughout the game.
    * UACs are ACs but generally better for the cost of 1 ton and doubling the ammunition weight. Where the AC/2 is useless, the UAC/2++ is one of the best weapons in the game. Where the AC/20 is a king of the battlefield, the UAC/20 has so much recoil it's difficult to use it effectively every turn. In general I only use the UAC/2++ and UAC/5++ due to the high recoil effects on accuracy. YMMV.
    * LBX weapons generally don't seem worthwhile to me. I'd rather put a UAC in that slot.

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  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    ER Lasers are like "this isn't really as effective as just moving closer" up until you can't move closer and suddenly your two ppcs and one ER Laser are the only things that can hit, and the ER Laser is the one that takes off the last part of the core and then for a while you are like "you know I guess range is ok" but then the jaws of the min max machine close in upon you again so you have to say they're suboptimal again.

    But for that one shot, range is god.

    I had an ER Laser on my double PPC awesome for a while*. I didn't know any better. I didn't really regret anything either. That thing did work.

    *From the point I first rejiggered my Awesome up until I beat the campaign so it was more like a fairly long time.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Well, I know for certain I'm pulling at least the LRM5 off my Vindicator- I might see what I could cram in there for another laser and maybe some heatsinks- I think running a ML/LL/PPC combo with as many sinks as I can cram would be a bad idea, though... maybe I could go full disco with my Trebuchet and go 2xML 2xLL with that?

    Though now I'll have some extra C-Bills to do so (especially because I might have frittered away my Weldry nest-egg by grabbing all three power projects on the Argo just to bang them out) after I dump all my AC/2s and ammo, and my regular AC/10s.

    I'm going to just fly around and grind money and things for a while to open up more of the Argo and see what comes out of the slight salvage I'll get, but grabbing milk-run contacts when I see them should help a lot.

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  • SaldonasSaldonas See you space cowboy...Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    The horrible imbalance on weapons like the PPC in vanilla was a huge motivator to go with mods for me.

    In BTE 3025, the victor has two jump jets similar to the phoenix hawk that gives it increased distance and bonus damage after a jump, so I set my victor up for some incredibly nasty damage from behind.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Saldonas wrote: »
    The horrible imbalance on weapons like the PPC in vanilla was a huge motivator to go with mods for me.

    In BTE 3025, the victor has two jump jets similar to the phoenix hawk that gives it increased distance and bonus damage after a jump, so I set my victor up for some incredibly nasty damage from behind.

    Backshotting Assault-class mech? That's not fair!

    Sounds like that mod actually makes the Victor useful, heh. Because in vanilla it's garbage.
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    Well, I know for certain I'm pulling at least the LRM5 off my Vindicator- I might see what I could cram in there for another laser and maybe some heatsinks- I think running a ML/LL/PPC combo with as many sinks as I can cram would be a bad idea, though... maybe I could go full disco with my Trebuchet and go 2xML 2xLL with that?

    Though now I'll have some extra C-Bills to do so (especially because I might have frittered away my Weldry nest-egg by grabbing all three power projects on the Argo just to bang them out) after I dump all my AC/2s and ammo, and my regular AC/10s.

    I'm going to just fly around and grind money and things for a while to open up more of the Argo and see what comes out of the slight salvage I'll get, but grabbing milk-run contacts when I see them should help a lot.

    Good choice pulling the LRM5. 2xML and 2xLL will be a solid amount of damage with good range and impressive heat buildup. What's your net heat (alpha strike - heat sinking) with that loadout?

    Saldonas
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Well, I could run 2xML 2xLL on the Vindicator, but I'm a half-ton overweight and that would require pulling a jumpjet off, but it'd have a net heat of +12 with an alpha right now.

    If I pulled the same stunt on a Trebuchet... I could pull both LRM15s off it and load it full of heatsinks, and it would get it to a net heat of +9, but damn if I don't want to give up the missiles on it that easily.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    Net heat of +12 to +15 is pretty good! The twin LRM15s are pretty tasty, I will admit.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    I think I'll commit on the changes to the Vindicator.

    I can put 4xML and 2xLRM10 on the Trebuchet, but I'm sucking something like +30 net heat on an alpha with it- either I pull off the missiles and use the extra space to chuck it full of heat sinks, or I can pop off an alpha every other turn with it while still slugging away with missiles, though I could only run two bins of LRM ammo with it. It'd give me enough for twelve launches while having a good bit of firepower to fall back on after those are gone.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    IMO, I'd dial back the MLs by 1 and fit at least one more bin of ammo--the MLs become backup weapons when the range is too short, while you use LRMs under normal circumstances.

    The Trench Bucket also tends to be a bit light in armor if I'm remembering right--so I'd add more armor at the cost of some of those MLs. In general, you want to maximize your damage within one particular range band instead of splitting it across multiple ranges, so trying to make a mech equally good at e.g. long and short range means you're giving up something to do it. 720 armor should be the minimum you field, preferably 760. 800+ is nice to have but not necessary on all mechs (especially one that will be hanging back).

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  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    I think I'll commit on the changes to the Vindicator.

    I can put 4xML and 2xLRM10 on the Trebuchet, but I'm sucking something like +30 net heat on an alpha with it- either I pull off the missiles and use the extra space to chuck it full of heat sinks, or I can pop off an alpha every other turn with it while still slugging away with missiles, though I could only run two bins of LRM ammo with it. It'd give me enough for twelve launches while having a good bit of firepower to fall back on after those are gone.

    Keep in mind you're not going to be able to effectively use LRMs at the same short range of the MLs due to the accuracy penalties until you have high Tactics pilots. And by that point, it's unlikely you'll still be using the Treb. So the alphastrike heat of that particular weapon combo will be mostly meaningless in practice unless your pilot also has Multishot to split fire between close and far opponents.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Well, sent the new disco-ball Vindicator out on its first mission, put Glitch in the cockpit and she managed to eat a Locust in one alpha- though it was weakened, that's still pretty damned good for a medium. Four energy attacks is just killing it, and only 12 net heat means I can just put out some pounding with it.

    The Treb... I put 3xML and 2xLRM10 on it, and it's still running a net heat of 26 with 840 armor and three bins of LRM ammo. But the thing about that is... if I'm hurting for a medium mech that can spam LRMs, I already have my Centurion that can launch 30 LRMs a turn. If I need a disco ball, I have my Vindicator. So why hang onto a mech that I've got others that can do better both jobs it's suited for?

    I also picked up a Shadow Hawk 2D after we found out the answer to "what happens to the poor sonofabitch piloting a Mech when an AC/20 shell plows through the cockpit?" (answer: so much red mist it's like someone chucked a can of paint into a blender.) So we gave it the old garden-hose washout and kicked some kitty litter under the seat to suck up the smell, and now I'm figuring out what to do with the thing. It's got one ballistic hardpoint and three each of energy and missile points (and two small weapons points), and the stock loadout on this thing is just plain fucking stupid. Dropping max armor on this thing gives me about eight tons to play with, but if I don't get stupid with the heat, I could boost that to 12 and pull off some heatsinks.

    My dream right now is to put an AC/5 and SRM6 on it with a bin of ammo each- I'll get 15 shots of AC/5 and 16 salvos of missiles while rocking over a thousand points of armor on it.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    AC/5 and SRM6 is great on a Shadowhawk or Wolverine. I usually just add a medium laser to it and call it good.

    If you can get your hands on a UAC/2++ or a UAC/5, that puppy will really sing.

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  • IoloIolo iolo Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    Orca wrote: »
    AC/5 and SRM6 is great on a Shadowhawk or Wolverine. I usually just add a medium laser to it and call it good.

    If you can get your hands on a UAC/2++ or a UAC/5, that puppy will really sing.

    Agreed.

    For the Trebuchet, if you already have LRMs on your Centurion, why not go full brawler on the Trebuchet. Swap the LRM 10s for SRM 6s and dial up the armor even more. Do you have jump jets already? If not, get em. Throw in heat sinks w/ any remaining tonnage.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I just swapped from LRM/SRM boats to ML-based mechs and the difference was palpable. Granted, I still had one LRM boat, but the damage was overall much more consistent, and weaving in a melee every once in a while feels like a much more efficient way to manage heat.

    Anyone have tips on when/where to Precision Strike? Also, how the hell is it supposed to work? When you have a 90% chance to hit and an 18% chance to Precision Strike a Left Leg, for example, what is the actual math?

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Early on--before Precision Strike, you want to flank a hostile and then shoot at their leg or back (CT). If something like a Hunchback 4G is after you, you can target the offending side torso.

    After your first level of Improved Precision Shot (at Tactics 6), your leg shots will be much more likely to connect (something like 70% probability). After the second level (at Tactics 9) headshots become viable at 18% when facing them head-on with most mechs, and 35% with the Marauder. This is when you fit your mechs with as many weapons as collectively add up to 61+ damage and go ham on the enemy.

    90% probably to hit and 18% of Precision Strike left leg means you have a 90% chance to hit something on the mech, and of that 90%, 18% chance to hit the leg specifically. 16.2% chance of hitting the leg in total. I'm guessing you're shooting from head on there.

    Early on you should also consider using Vigilence--the protection and flexibility can frequently be of more value than a low probability chance to damage a specific limb. It acts to brace you as well as increase your initiative next turn by 1, so it's helpful.

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  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    And just for comparison, the standard odds for any given shot to hit the left leg from the front vs hitting any other location is about 10%. Or about 9% if the weapon had a 90% chance to hit in the first place. So the unupgraded Called Shot gives you about double the random odds of hitting that location.

    If you were positioned to the left side of the enemy your odds of a shot hitting the left leg are around 31% without a called shot. That is, with a low Tactics pilot, moving to the side is more likely to take off a leg than a called shot from the front.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    The victor, being the second heaviest mech to be able to use 1 tonne JJs and the only one to do so with missiles is seriously good in default battletech.

    Also PPC are fine. They’re high heat yes but their high variance and range make them still super valuable.

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  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    Well, sent the new disco-ball Vindicator out on its first mission, put Glitch in the cockpit and she managed to eat a Locust in one alpha- though it was weakened, that's still pretty damned good for a medium. Four energy attacks is just killing it, and only 12 net heat means I can just put out some pounding with it.

    The Treb... I put 3xML and 2xLRM10 on it, and it's still running a net heat of 26 with 840 armor and three bins of LRM ammo. But the thing about that is... if I'm hurting for a medium mech that can spam LRMs, I already have my Centurion that can launch 30 LRMs a turn. If I need a disco ball, I have my Vindicator. So why hang onto a mech that I've got others that can do better both jobs it's suited for?

    I also picked up a Shadow Hawk 2D after we found out the answer to "what happens to the poor sonofabitch piloting a Mech when an AC/20 shell plows through the cockpit?" (answer: so much red mist it's like someone chucked a can of paint into a blender.) So we gave it the old garden-hose washout and kicked some kitty litter under the seat to suck up the smell, and now I'm figuring out what to do with the thing. It's got one ballistic hardpoint and three each of energy and missile points (and two small weapons points), and the stock loadout on this thing is just plain fucking stupid. Dropping max armor on this thing gives me about eight tons to play with, but if I don't get stupid with the heat, I could boost that to 12 and pull off some heatsinks.

    My dream right now is to put an AC/5 and SRM6 on it with a bin of ammo each- I'll get 15 shots of AC/5 and 16 salvos of missiles while rocking over a thousand points of armor on it.

    I always ran at least one LRM boat in my group, no matter what I was doing. That had Dekker. It worked very well, especially when he got an archer.

    The first lrm boat I gave him was a shadowhawk with 2 x lrm15's and I think one lrm 10 (that might be too big, could be he had smaller lrms?). Not quite as much armor, but not that necessary. Tons of ammo. That was uh....that was all he had. If he ran out of ammo, he ran out of pew pew.

    This happened very rarely, but it could happen. Best to slap on that extra ton.

    You could totally make one into an SRM boat too tho, three SRM hardpoints ain't shabby combined with jumpy jumpers to get into back angles.

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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    I definitely ran PPCs in my play through, they were integral for my brawly Stalkers (though a big part of that was just making sure I could knock stuff over).

    Don’t think I ever bothered with Victors though, I think I was already getting Stalkers and had the Highlander by the point I got one.

  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    edited September 14
    I didn't use PPCs much until I got my Awesome. It came with three which was....excessive, so I removed one and turned it into something that could fire both every turn without heat issues. One thing that is a little overlooked with PPC's is their stability damage. My LRM boat was usually rocking stability plus missiles, and I often had an AC (or tons of srms) on another mech. It was quite viable to knock a mech down regularly with all this stability damage on my lance, and I wasn't even really going for this. It just happened when I focus fired. Usually the last one to move in my lance got to unload an alpha on the core.

    Bing bang boom, next.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Nobody wrote: »
    I definitely ran PPCs in my play through, they were integral for my brawly Stalkers (though a big part of that was just making sure I could knock stuff over).

    Don’t think I ever bothered with Victors though, I think I was already getting Stalkers and had the Highlander by the point I got one.

    So the thing about Highlanders is that while they do weight 15 tonnes more than victors, they also spend 6 tonnes for 3 jumps, while Victors spend 4 tonnes for 4 jumps. You can also get 4/4 on a Battlemaster, but you cannot load up on quite as efficient weapons either. (though the SLDF battlemaster... yea go HAM)

    The SLDF Highlander is clearly better but its not so obvious that the regular one is.

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  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Not only is the 20 stability damage (same as an AC10 or a full LRM10 salvo) helpful for knockdowns, but I feel people also don't generally give the PPC's stacking hit-chance debuff enough credit, especially against early-mid game enemy pilots. Which is a bit weird because if instead of being a "hidden" effect it was instead visually presented to the player as, "if you hit with this weapon, your entire lance gets free evasion pips vs this enemy", I imagine most people would never leave home without one.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    I also don't tend to use the Victor very often. It's hardpoint layout never felt as sizable or as flexible as others in that tonnage range. 3 ballistic hardpoints on the arm feels like I'm being trolled.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    I definitely ran PPCs in my play through, they were integral for my brawly Stalkers (though a big part of that was just making sure I could knock stuff over).

    Don’t think I ever bothered with Victors though, I think I was already getting Stalkers and had the Highlander by the point I got one.

    So the thing about Highlanders is that while they do weight 15 tonnes more than victors, they also spend 6 tonnes for 3 jumps, while Victors spend 4 tonnes for 4 jumps. You can also get 4/4 on a Battlemaster, but you cannot load up on quite as efficient weapons either. (though the SLDF battlemaster... yea go HAM)

    The SLDF Highlander is clearly better but its not so obvious that the regular one is.

    Yeah, I’m my case it’s the SLDF Highlander, and when I felt a need to have a more mobile backstriker/spotter at that point I’d rather just go much lighter

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    The SLDF Phoenix Hawk is like the best backstabber EVER. That thing kills almost as fast as the Marauder for anything with less armor than an Atlas.

  • MirkelMirkel FinlandRegistered User regular
    Not only is the 20 stability damage (same as an AC10 or a full LRM10 salvo) helpful for knockdowns, but I feel people also don't generally give the PPC's stacking hit-chance debuff enough credit, especially against early-mid game enemy pilots. Which is a bit weird because if instead of being a "hidden" effect it was instead visually presented to the player as, "if you hit with this weapon, your entire lance gets free evasion pips vs this enemy", I imagine most people would never leave home without one.

    Even with the debuff PPCs are just poor. Instead of wasting time and free tonnage and tons and tons of heat to debuff a target you can kill a target which drops their chance to hit to 0%. Leaving an enemy alive means they are shooting at you and stripping away your evasion pips and since there's almost always more of them your priority is to reduce their numbers. Rare Stub PPCs are good since they do a shitload of damage, the debuff is just icing on the cake. Regular PPCs with their piddly 50 damage have no cake to apply icing to.

    Orca
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Yeah in my limited experience this feels like an overall problem with balance in this game - killing a mech outright takes just as much time and resources as disabling one. Which begs the question of why you would bother doing anything other than just outright killing it. Especially since engagements are relatively short and fight ranges tend to collapse quickly. So unless you're doing something "for fun", the easiest thing to do is just grab a mech with a ton of armor and laser hardpoints and just shove it down the enemy lance's throat.

    Orca
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    I wish I was able to setup all these max conditions as easily as you guys do that lets me snub my nose at so many things.

    All my game kept throwing at me was middle ground situations requiring flexibility and varied tactical options.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    edited September 15
    Yeah in my limited experience this feels like an overall problem with balance in this game - killing a mech outright takes just as much time and resources as disabling one. Which begs the question of why you would bother doing anything other than just outright killing it. Especially since engagements are relatively short and fight ranges tend to collapse quickly. So unless you're doing something "for fun", the easiest thing to do is just grab a mech with a ton of armor and laser hardpoints and just shove it down the enemy lance's throat.

    Salvage, mostly. Every time you score a knockdown, you deliver a point of damage to the pilot inside. Deliver enough damage to the pilot and you take the mech out of the fight, and have a damn good chance at seeing all or most of it in the salvage table after the mission is over, as opposed to blowing the legs out from under it (might get you one or two) or blowing the CT (you'll get one or just completely scrap it).

    Right now, I know of two possible ways to always get max scrap- disable the pilot (long, tedious, risk damage and injuries to your own mechs and pilots) or going all boom headshot and aiming for the cockpit to either a) deliver pilot damage or b) kill the pilot outright by destroying the head outright, which is really, really difficult and runs the risk of blowing out the CT or blowing off an arm.

    Going all-in and prioritizing damage over scrap is great if you're looking to farm up piles of C-Bills, though.

    JaysonFour on
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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Anyways, this is what I have so far on the Treb:

    2xSRM6, 3xML

    With four sinks, that's a net heat of 18 for an alpha. and no jumping, with one ton of missiles- but I'm rocking 1000 armor on it. It has a base move of 140 already. I could cut one more laser and go for some jumpjets, another sink, or more ammo or armor.

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  • BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    Re: When to use Precision and Vigilance - something else to keep in mind (especially early game) is that if you don't need to use them try not to - you get a boost to your lance's accuracy (IIRC) when your morale clears 25 and 50(?), which can help your early shitty pilots hit things!

    Re: PPCs, they're fantastic weapons, though they do have limitations. But the stability damage (especially on the ++ ones later) can really help, the debuff is great, and they have fantastic range. My prior game's spoilermech ran one PPC with the Gauss (and then some MLs/SRMS for brawling) and that game me a long range hit that could knock a TON of stability off. Follow that up with a salvo from the LRM boat and knocking people down (or at least stripping evasion) was easy. Another point for knocking down mechs - it removes things like bulwark/guarded as well, so all they have left is cover (if applicable). Yeah sure it's better to kill mechs outright but a knockdown both takes a mech out of cycle for a bit, allows for free precision shots (which allows you to rip off legs or dangerous arms/torsos), injures the pilot, and can frequently be done via multi-target while still DPSing other targets, leading to overall faster lance death.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Ah, hell.

    It's always the little ones you never expect- I managed to go up against some Taurian lights, and I swear the little fuckers had it out for me- not even a Blackjack could stand up to all that abuse, and the damn thing got shot out from under me and put my rump down in medbay for three months. Wasn't too bad of a stretch, but at the same time, I ended up selling my Blackjack to bring the second Shadow Hawk online. I like it a lot better- I have more freaking armor, and I've been taking small contracts and grabbing all the C-Bills to get more of my Argo opened up.

    This is what my lance looks like right now:

    - SHD-2D (Shadow Hawk 2D) - AC/5, ML, SRM-6
    - VND-1R (Vindicator) - 2xML, 2xLL
    - SHD-2H (Shadow Hawk 2H) - AC/20
    - CN9-A (Centurion) - LRM20+++ (+50% crit, +2 stability damage), LRM10

    Reserves/Storage:

    - SHD-2H (Shadow Hawk 2H)
    - FS9-H (Firestarter)
    - PNT-9R (Panther)
    - TBT-5N (Trebuchet 5N) - 2xSRM6, 3xML

    Current plans are to maybe do some mech shuffling- maybe move my current setup off the 2D and onto the spare 2H, and the convert the 2D into another disco ball so I can get Glitch into something that can take a pounding better than her Vindicator can (and the 2D can move a hell of a lot farther than her Vindicator can). Preliminary reports show I can put 1xML 2xLL on a 2D and still max out the armor with room enough for a heatsink to give me net heat of 15 for an alpha, and it gives her a much better melee attack if it comes to that (85 against the current 55). It gives about a hundred better points on structure, and another 450 or so armor. The downside is it can't mount a fourth ML, so it's trading a little hit strength for a lot better everything else.

    My current setup on a 2H gives me a net heat of 2 on an alpha, and just as much armor, too.

    I'm planning on selling off the Firestarter, the Panther, and the Vindicator.

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    Iolo
  • Ark EvensongArk Evensong The NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    Might want to hold on to the Firestarter - they can be vicious little murderbeasts. One or two ML, fill up on SL and Machine Guns, full Jump Jets, (near?) max armor. (Been a while, I forget.) Get close and tear open that rear armor or go for spray-and-pray headshots. Using reserve properly, you can usually manage to get back out before being retaliated against.

    BullheadIoloBetsuni
  • BullheadBullhead Registered User regular
    Might want to hold on to the Firestarter - they can be vicious little murderbeasts. One or two ML, fill up on SL and Machine Guns, full Jump Jets, (near?) max armor. (Been a while, I forget.) Get close and tear open that rear armor or go for spray-and-pray headshots. Using reserve properly, you can usually manage to get back out before being retaliated against.

    I just got one into the field last night on my new campaign - full JJs (6!), 3xflamer, 2xML, nearly full armor. I could certainly give up armor to increase the dakka but it works great as a high-evasion scout. And yeah, if I can work it right, I let it evasion tank/distract reserver down to the end, then run up, shoot/flame someone, then next round bug out again and wait a round to repeat. Will be even more evil with Ace Pilot.

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  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    Thanks all for all this talk of BT. It has made me rethink my current game and drop deck. I've been really trying to force a Dragon, Catapult, Awesome and Vindicator/Trebuchet build for far too long and I think that got me stuck. I liked the Catapult for the splat cat that I built it into, but it being a Heavy really does hurt it when running against lights/mediums. The Awesome, I might just have to also shelve it for now and bring it back online when I have more brawling firepower. The Dragon, yeah it really is a bad mech compared to the rest. I loved trying to make it a brawler but it doesn't do the job as a medium can in this game. So it is going to be either shelved for later when I want to run a really bad drop or sell it. Probably bring my Shadow Hawks back into the mix and Centurion instead. I was just getting tired of my Shadow Hawks getting focus fired on and eventually losing a limb, but they do punch harder than my Dragon and Vindicator/Trebuchets which was nice.

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    Steam: betsuni7
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