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Continuing to Discuss the [2020 Primary] and Not Other Stuff
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But again, Warren was the one who said it happened but was no big deal. Why would Sanders deny it?
I don't think observing an equally qualified woman would have unfairly worse odds is itself sexist.
I do think people going from "Warren needs to confirm or deny this" to "Warren is deceitful and how dare she" is a pretty big indicator of sexism among those people specifically.
They are all gonna endorse Biden in the end if he wins.
This angle is pretty laughable after she drcides to make hay off of it last night
It's sexist because it helps reinforce the sexist narrative in our society. As feminist pundit Amanda Marcotte put it:
She didn't.
Yeah man the candidate proposing to directly tax the value of gold-plated yachts complete with helipads is "a centrist millionaire-friendly candidate"
When you wonder why people roll their eyes at the hardcore Berners, this is your answer
Theres no evidence Sanders attempted to dissuade Warren from running for office.
There's really nothing more to see there, except that both Warren and Bernie supporters appear to be very easy to goad into fighting each other about next to nothing. This fight wouldn't be happening if it weren't for a lot of people on both sides really chomping at the bit for an excuse to yell at each other. For Warren supporters, its probably the tenacity of the Bernie Bro smear combined with some really obvious and vocal goading from trolls online. For Bernie supporters, they've basically been gaslit by the media repeatedly to the point that they jump at every shadow they can. Combine that also with trolls stirring the pot and we come to where we are now.
I don't remember the part where ahe took a turn as debate moderator to ask herself about it.
She actually dealt with this during her first run for Senate too. "But a women has never won in MA as a Senator or Governor". She been to that rodeo before.
I think the sum total of my exposure to it was people pointing out that Warren and Sanders got chyrons to the effect of "but how can they PAY for their plans without BANKRUPTING YOU?", and that there were some questions suggesting war was inevitable (and presumably worth paying top dollar for).
Hillary still won the popular vote by the largest margin in US history. She had 2.8 million more votes than Trump. Second place is Bush v Gore at just over 500 thousand.
I’m not saying sexism wasn’t a factor in 2016, but I think it should be obvious that a woman can win the even in this toxic environment.
Hell, Sanders himself was beaten by a woman in 2016 primary, so I have no idea why he would say a woman can’t win 2020.
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Maybe he didnt say it.
Jezebel has a good headline re: this
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Did Sanders specifically deny this or was it a staffer or was The Campaign or was there even a reported denial?
Sanders himself specifically addressed it with a non-denial that implied it was just staffers saying things they shouldn't, rather than an actual campaign position.
Warren's response to the question in a debate was amazing:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4793732/user-clip-women
(courtesy of Ebum)
(it also, imo, speaks to the fact that she's demonstratively smart enough to know how to deal with this kind of story and it's not the way any of this broke)
Consider that Nate Silver also believes Warren's campaign was the source and has been in the running for the Bill Kristol Wrong About Everything Award for the last three years
Her reactions afterwards, though, especially with the lack of a handshake, leads viewers to think she didn't think it was a misinterpretation of what Bernie said and harbors some ill will. If she doesn't, her actions don't indicate it. That'll fuel the idea that the leaked attack was intentional, because if she was against it, the argument would go she'd make more of an effort to downplay it and not appear genuinely pissed at Bernie.
It doesn't matter that she could have legit reasons to be pissed at him, either, since it's all about perception.
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Jacobin writer but its just so people can see whats behind the paywall
Bernie and Warren definitely have some key differences, but they're close enough and seem pretty clearly better than any of the other candidates that I'm really surprised there seems to be so much vitriol from their supporters towards one another.
Also considering we know there's just a horde of bots trying to stoke arguments, I think it's best to refrain from using any type of social media to gauge...anything.
This is SO vastly different from the initial reporting, one of them is straight up untrue.
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Saying women under that environment couldn't win the presidency actually also is sexist, just in a different way. It ahifts the blame to society, but it's still saying a woman shouldn't run with serious intent to win. By analogy, consider how you might feel about "i support socialism but I just don't think a socialist can win 2020"
Im not fan of either outlet but CNNs agends was on full display last night
Sooo, kind of like how he addressed the "women can't win" comment?
Specifically, I haven't seen him explicitly denying saying the thing Warren attributed to him
Warren probably doesn't need anyone to remind her that misogyny exists. And after hearing it over and over again from various people, I could totally see her viewing it more as discouragement than as a mere neutral statement of fact.
It wouldn't be the first time a well-meaning ally said something dumb. I'm also not particularly interested in the "whodunit" game regarding the initial leak.
I don't think this makes Sanders a mustache-twirling sexist but this backlash I'm seeing against Warren over all this is seriously grossing me out.
Bernie has said himself it didn't happen. Warren says it did. The two themselves have said it's not a big deal and everyone should move on but unfortunately here we are.
This is what I'm saying. I'm fairly sure CNN cherry-picked from their sources. Warren's statement easily reflects that she heard something different from what Bernie meant. The most obvious source of this "fight" is the organization that reported it, hyped it for their own debate, and continues to harp on it with "Warren-Sanders Feud!" "Fiery response to Bernie's denial!"
You can literally make both stories true if Warren asked the question in response to something Sanders said.
Sanders: I think that a woman has the disadvantage in the election.
Warren: Are you saying a woman can't win?
Sanders: No, I'm saying Trump will be especially shitty to women.
If you read the first two sentences, you get CNN. If you read the latter two, you get WaPo. If you read the last statement as Bernie's true position, you get Bernie's angle. If you read the last statement as backpedaling, you get Warren's position.
It is really easy for communication to go poorly and different people to interpret things differently.
This, again, loops back to my main point: All of this doesn't matter. Looking for liars or campaign agendas or "the truth" is silly, because this is such a triviality and the current status of "they probably miscommunicated in a mildly dumb way" is true regardless of which story is mildly more accurate
I don’t mean sitting on Warren’s reaction. By that point it was too late. I don’t fault Warren or her campaign for that.
I’m talking about the initial report that got this started, the “two staffers close to Warren and two other people” part. Whoever those staffers are should have waited until Biden was out of the way.
Actually that makes me curious: The script thing was released first, then Sanders denied it, then the leak about Sanders and Warren’s conversation came out, then shit started getting worse.
Please tell me this isn’t a thing and Biden isn’t going to win because some staffer on Warren’s campaign leaked this too early after Sander’s campaign lied about the script that’s a complete nothingburger?
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He did address it directly.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/13/warren-sanders-feud-098494
Some of y'all are straight up refusing to acknowledge reality and it's more than a little unsettling.
Oh right I did see that thank you!
Ahh this is the quote I wanted to see.
So, they're both right, no one lied, it's a miscommunication being propped up as a big news event when in reality it is anything but.
I would like both Warren and Sanders to release a commercial clearing it up and then ending it with "Now let's all go back to making fun of Biden and Buttigieg"
Me neither.
That's why I don't believe it.
Plus, didn't Bernie say he tried to get Warren to run in 2016?
Not really.
Again, it's best to go back to the actual reporting and such. Here's Warren's statement for instance:
The difference between this statement and what WaPo is reporting above is pretty small and basically a matter of how you take the meaning and overall point of his response.
PS - And of course, her whole statement is basically "Yes it happened but this is all unimportant bullshit".