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Continuing to Discuss the [2020 Primary] and Not Other Stuff
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Both those things happened, but they also both happened before the 2016 general, which you could understand possibly changing how people feel about that particular question.
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Fuck Joe Manchin
I did not see this, so this is good to see now, thank you.
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They've both said it's not a big deal.
Unfortunately that's not enough for some people to move on and they feel a need to objectively prove everything terrible is one specific person's fault.
Which wouldn't be such a big deal if wild claims weren't being made in order to do so.
Edit 2: Or massively shifting goalposts when results weren't what they wanted.
It was not two staffers close to Warren.
Again, CNN sources: CNN does not say anyone in the campaign was involved with this.
Literally anyone removing Trump would feel like a massive weight off my soul but I would be genuinely enthusiastic for those two.
He's an old white guy they say stupid shit all the time.
After all it's Warren's duty to be subservient to the best interests of the Sanders campaign. She should have said women can't win when asked!
He's Jewish, actually.
It could be her campaign intentionally (either with or without her consent). it could be a loose lips incident by her staffers. In any case it is her responsibility.
Fair enough. Not campaign staffers.
So she told two friends? Colleagues? The first two random people she met?
Whomever leaked this may have been trying to help her campaign, wether they are staffers or not, but I don’t think it’s going the way they wanted.
It was still a mistake to release the conversation before Biden is out of the way.
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I quoted her literal response to the issue last page. Wherein she says it doesn't matter and we should talk about other shit.
In the debate she took it as an opportunity to say "Yes women can win" and toot her own horn. Bernie took it as an opportunity to say "Yes, women can win" and emphasizing his own history in supporting women.
As far as I can tell neither of them tried to make this an attack on the other or do anything but de-escalate the situation.
How dare she tell her side of events to the people around her.
CNN: "Senator Sanders, did you say a woman can't win?"
Sanders: "No."
CNN: "Senator Warren, what did you think when Senator Sanders said a woman can't win?"
In what respect is Warren responsible for shitty journalists being shitty?
Nice dude. You found a way to blame a woman for this the most out of anyone. It's impressive.
Even though we've got like tons of post sources just in the past 2 pages alone going over the various statements and sources for those statements on the issue.
Again, we have no idea WHO released the conversation. It only states Warren talked with two people, it does not state they were Warren campaign people. They could have been two Sanders campaign people. We don't know.
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Thisbis trying to have it both ways.
I don’t see how this bad question is in any way Warren’s fault or responsibility. Be mad at CNN for asking such a bad question.
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What precisely would you have had her say?
I don't think she wanted this out here, because it's stupid, and absent the heritage thing she hasn't done anything stupid. But once it's out you can either use it or drop and endorse Sanders. There are no other options.
I don't see how either candidate handled it badly either. Both basically just went and talked about how woman can totally win elections and also vote for me.
Acknowledge topic, say the right thing, pivot to self-promotion, don't try and start a fight.
Senator Warren refused to shake Senator Sander's hand after the debate.
This perfidious attack! The massive escalation!
This is joke dude. What are you even doing?
Might be related to him essentially calling her a liar during the debate.
If you like this thread you should be nicer in it, because I would really like to close it right now.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
1) During their conversation, Bernie says something about how if the Democratic nominee is a woman then Trump will attack her in sexist ways and that those attacks would be effective. Probably a true statement, but "effective" can be interpreted in a variety of ways. Perhaps he meant there's a subset of voters who will respond to those attacks, so it would make the margin smaller than if a man with identical positions were the nominee. If that's what he meant, it's a reasonable and fair point. But he tends to talk in an aggressive, blunt manner so I find it entirely plausible that...
2) Warren, informed by her history of being told women cannot do things (including winning elections), interprets "effective" as meaning that it would lead to a Trump victory. She is frustrated by this and shares it with several confidants. The story of this meeting becomes a semi-open secret inside the Democratic Party.
3) The story leaks. I suspect the initial source is the campaign who had the most to gain here (BIDEN) but we don't have any real details.
4) Bernie gives the following statement to CNN:
The bolded is an important escalation. And shows no self-reflection.
5) A couple hours later, Warren releases her statement. She says Bernie said a female candidate couldn't win and that she disagreed. But it's mostly conciliatory with how they agree on most issues, etc. etc. etc.
6) When asked at the debate Bernie repeats that it never happened.
7) Given the history of how sexist shit works, Warren's displeased with him in the moment, thus the post-debate interaction.
You know how this could have been fixed really easily? If Sanders opts to say something like:
I don't think either candidate can completely control the fact that people really enjoy fighting about useless bullshit.
Well it did help to point out how some people will always attack the woman over any slight no matter how small or whether she even did the thing or not
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An unreasonable number of Sanders supporters will take any excuse to portray someone as an enemy of the revolution. Outside of meekly cringing before him there was no way to stop this from happening once the story broke.
Given the immediate reaction to her confirming the story was to call her a liar, I don't see how anything could have worked. Both campaigns have tried to de-escalate but even in this thread we've still got "it's all Warrens fault" and "she's a liar" floating around.
At no point in this story has Bernie said anything close to an apology for what he said, I even if he didn’t mean it the way Warren took it. Unless you are claiming that Warren is 100% lying about the entire story and she made the whole thing up. Bernie seemingly said something and Warren took it in a way it wasn’t intended.
Instead of apologizing or offering any indication that he understands her feelings, Bernie doubles down and says that it’s not true.
And people wonder why Warren might be, in the moment, pissed at her friend and not exactly in the mood to shake his hand?
My original assertion is that this was a blunder and the only person it helps is Biden.
If Warren’s team or friend or whoever did it, it’s a mistake because they should have waited until Biden was gone.
If Sanders team or friend or whatever did it, then for fucks sake that’s stupid (and pretty unlikely unless they were purposely trying to sabotage him).
This helps Biden only. And I suppose CNN.
It was stupid for Sanders and Warren to go after each other. Wait till Biden is gone, then they can go at it.
That is what is so upsetting about all this to me: All the effort in this entire conversation is pointless if Biden doesn’t lose. Warren is my first choice, but I’d be happy with Sanders too. All the other candidates I’d vote for in the general, but they don’t excite me. Having these two go at each other, wether it’s just in the media or this forum or for realsies, while Biden is still winning is a fucking waste.
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It wasn't a blunder if Biden leaked it.
Honestly my eye has been literally involuntarily twitching reading the last couple of pages, but clearly CNN won last night’s debate because now we are fighting over the dumbest bullshit ever.
He's Bernie's speechwriter and is trying to wrestle his fans back towards being mad at Biden, who is going to walk away with this nomination if nobody does anything to stop it.