The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent
vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums
here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules
document is now in effect.
Continuing to Discuss the [2020 Primary] and Not Other Stuff
Posts
"Democrats" are not the people going into hysterics about this on social media.
Trump's outright rejection of the mainstream media (except fox, where everyone there already loved him) is one of the reasons he got so many ignorant voters
the conventional wisdom that you can't be mean to CNN because they won't cover you turned out to be bullshit
Or maybe that's just me.
No, of course not. He could have made a statement along the lines of “Liz and I did have a conversation, and I apologize that she took away something from our talk that I would have never intended. I have long supported female candidates and my record reflects that.”
Easy, cast the discussion as a misunderstanding and apologize. That’s not accepting any sort of label as a misogynist.
The claim made was that both Warren and Sanders tried to de-escalate. Warren failed to shake Sanders' hand afterwards in a very public snub.
So yes, I will blame Senator Warren for failing to de-escalate the situation.
Two randos and a woman named Elizabeth Warren.
most democrats, I would bet money, have no idea that this is even a thing
Frankly, I turned off CNN as soon as the debate was over because CNN is awful and who wants to listen to their punditry?
I'm sure the Dem party will manage just fine without candidates who wax poetic about all those very civil segregationists they worked with or lying about voting for a war the killed hundreds of thousands.
I suspect they'll even benefit from it.
Except it's only an escalation of you think it matters. Even fucking Sirota is saying it doesn't. The headlines for this story were already a thing for days before the debate, so handshake-ghazi didn't cause that either. The media was already making this fight happen.
Of course, if you want to call "not shaking his hand" am escalation anyway then "calling her a liar" is also an escalation and the most likely precipitating incident to handshake-ghazi.
This whole thing is mostly just a story about how the media and the various candidate's vocal online supporters act.
I guess the Democrats could go back to being the racism party instead, but what I mean is that a Democratic party successful enough in removing its moderate wing to have Joe Biden run as a republican would also be a Democratic party without a large enough slice of the electorate to win any elections.
I'm here in SoCal and literally no one is talking about the dem primary. It's like we're going off to fight a dragon and the knights are arguing about what type of weapon we should use; a sword, a warhammer, an axe. And most of us are the plebs who won't be doing the fighting or deciding, we will just be carrying the gear for the knights. So it doesn't feel like there's a point to adding any commentary to it, pick something and let's go kill the dragon or die.
It sounds a bit melodramatic, but I feel like there's a collective PTSD that's made us fatalistic.
Y'all are on Super Tuesday!
Yeah if you want a real useless primary its washingtons. At least this year its a real primary and not a caucus, but its still a piss in the wind after super tuesday.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I'll add my opposition to Iowa's position as a preface to my posts
"Go on, it's okay. You've done nothing wrong. Those guys were finks, and you're a pure soul. But you didn't say God bless you when I sneezed."
Bernie and Warren were always frontrunners in Iowa and New Hampshire, spool. We still thought they're non-representative and shouldn't go first. We only got slightly more vocal about it when they decided to have a fling with Pete Buttigieg. Who has literally nothing to recommend him.
I don't like how we have them right now for sure. Like all on one day would be bad because one bit of momentum and a bad candidate can be selected. Too drawn out and it feels like it never ends. Really I just wish Iowa and NH weren't first because neither represent a significant electorate, and both encourage I think shitty early campaigning.
pleasepaypreacher.net
This is still a problem
Do you have any solutions you wish to discuss?
I think it would be beneficial to dismantle the existing two party biased structure, do away with these early states which do not represent the landscape of the nation controlling things, and replace them with a national, simultaneous ranked choice primary
that would be downright unamercian
I think that's fundamentally misunderstanding what spool32 is getting at. He's saying "if the GOP encompasses the political spectrum all the way over to Biden, they will win". And yeah, that's basically 100% true. If the GOP could bring candidate with platforms like Biden under their wing, they would own a MASSIVE majority of the voter base.
The problem is that this hypothetical is ludicrous because the GOP almost certainly can't build a coalition like that. Honestly, a good way to look at US politics is to consider that the main reason the Democrats can win at all is that the GOP platform itself is unpopular enough to override their systematic advantages. If they ran a slight less shitty platform they could potentially dominate elections. But they can't because they just can't bring their base and a lot the moderates easily under the same tent.
I think it's somewhat useful though in that it does bring up the size and diversity of the coalition the Democrats are working with in order to build a majority. And that's a big part of what you need to do as a party.
And also Biden just isn't that far right except in comparison to like Warren and Sanders and where we in this thread might want candidates to be.
Also Biden's support is like 50% of black people, so it's a bad hypothetical on that front. Just saying.
Anyway, the point of this long rambly post is that you can't win a presidential election in the US without scooping up a bunch of moderate voters.
It is really frustrating that two of the largest economies in the country are basically yadda yadda yadda'd. Like california could literally be its own first world country.
pleasepaypreacher.net
it's certainly trying to be a first world country amid america's slow descent
You can't win a presidential campaign without motivating YOUR moderate voters
Almost all moderates strongly favor one party or another. What matters is getting yours to the polls NOT appealing too all moderates in general.
One of the best and worst things about modern America is how social media is allowing people to examine America's institutions in depth and forming their own opinions about them. Best because a lot of those institutions were founded on racist, sexist, or otherwise dire ideas and need to be re-examined. Worst because so many of these institutions were designed so that they would be difficult or impossible to change under the existing rules, and that leads to a lot of cynicism and defeatism.
The Sanders campaign is trying to do something about it:
Jane Sanders is Bernie Sanders's wife and David Sirota is Sanders's speechwriter.
(Like seriously, Sanders got Biden to drop that insulting "I didn't voted for the Iraq War" attempt of gaslighting people, but is not the biggest story).
This is the actual scary thing with this election. The democratic party is still stuck in this mindset that they need to control the media narrative and aren't paying attention to how that media narrative filters down to the actual voters and that they need to control that instead. The right already knows this and is leaning hard on that shit.
Also, Twitter.
Which, reflexively, fuck Twitter, for the usual eight course meal grocery list worth of reasons.
All in one day with ranked voting. Ideally with the campaigns publicly funded and PACs outlawed while we're living the dream.
Sadly the dirtbag left will latch on to any reason to scream at someone and the media just threw gasoline on their fire.
As someone who likes them both with respect to policy, this is a serious train wreck
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche