[Virtual Reality] 2: Electric Butterloo

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    just make more of them valve

    train giraffes to do it i dont give a FUCK

    Le_Goat
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Yeah unfortunately being mega out of stock proooobably isn't helping things in the short run. Hopefully the demand motivates them to do it in the medium run though.

    Steam:Fiatil
    Dhalphir
  • StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    We require additional Starfleet Officers! Come, join us! We only blow up sometimes!
    I'd love to join sometime, but I'm +11 UTC so the only compatible times I could manage would be mid-day on my weekend days to align with your Friday or Saturday night. Also, while I do own the STNG DLC I've never actually played it. Also, I'm on PSVR and probably have completely forgotten how to play.


    26904.png
    Karoz
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Stupid wrote: »
    We require additional Starfleet Officers! Come, join us! We only blow up sometimes!
    I'd love to join sometime, but I'm +11 UTC so the only compatible times I could manage would be mid-day on my weekend days to align with your Friday or Saturday night. Also, while I do own the STNG DLC I've never actually played it. Also, I'm on PSVR and probably have completely forgotten how to play.

    Good news is DLC can be turned off so that won't be a hinderance.

    But yes, coordinating is always a challenge.

  • Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Registered User regular
    I’m sure we can coordinate something
    . At the minimum I’m free most of day CST tomorrow and I think we are explicitly planning to play sometime around 7 PM EST tomorrow.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    I wish someone would do a current evaluation of all the available VR headsets, most of the reviews are really old and make me more confused.

    Like is the vive really discontinued? so basically the only options left are the occulus or the index right? But didnt the occulus go into bankruptcy or something?

    Specs of the available ones would be nice, and what exactly is needed in terms of PC graphics power (or not in the rift S case)...all this would be great to have on our OP if its available

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
    Karoz
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    But didnt the occulus go into bankruptcy or something?
    I have not heard anything about this. To my knowledge, Oculus sales have really picked up, and game sales continues to climb. That was one of the things I wanted to make sure of before I bought a unit in November. I didn't want to buy a $400 system just to find out it's gone down the toilet.

    Do you have a reference to site? I hope that doesn't come off as argumentative, as that is not my intent.

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
    kime
  • Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Registered User regular
    Le_Goat wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    But didnt the occulus go into bankruptcy or something?
    I have not heard anything about this. To my knowledge, Oculus sales have really picked up, and game sales continues to climb. That was one of the things I wanted to make sure of before I bought a unit in November. I didn't want to buy a $400 system just to find out it's gone down the toilet.

    Do you have a reference to site? I hope that doesn't come off as argumentative, as that is not my intent.

    I can answer this pretty easily. They are not bankrupt or going bankrupt, they are owned by Facebook. They just sold out of headsets everywhere but their own site this holiday season. So I don’t think bankruptcy is a possibility for them in the near future either.

    KarozBig DookieLe_Goatkime
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    just make more of them valve

    train giraffes to do it i dont give a FUCK
    Do child labor laws apply to baby giraffes?

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    edited January 7
    azith28 wrote: »
    I wish someone would do a current evaluation of all the available VR headsets, most of the reviews are really old and make me more confused.

    Like is the vive really discontinued? so basically the only options left are the occulus or the index right? But didnt the occulus go into bankruptcy or something?

    Specs of the available ones would be nice, and what exactly is needed in terms of PC graphics power (or not in the rift S case)...all this would be great to have on our OP if its available

    Giving me homework eh? Well if you insist.

    I've added a System Requirement placeholder spoiler tab to each system (except PSVR since that requires a PS4 and Quest since it is standalone), added an Oculus Quest and Index tabs, will update as able.

    Help is appreciated but hopefully I'll get these things semi-updated at a decent rate.

    Edit: Included Is My PC Up To The Challenge? section to the OP

    Karoz on
  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    Karoz wrote: »
    Apogee wrote: »
    Boo, we need WMR representation in the OP too! At least the Odyssey+ and Reverb...

    Will be happy to add if you send me the grunt work. :smile:

    Fair enough!

    Windows Mixed Reality (MWR):
    MWR headsets come in several flavours, but all use the same inside-out tracking via cameras on the front of the headsets. This means they're really easy to set up (and portable, no cameras or lighthouses required) but they suffer in the tracking department. Headset tracking is great, and hand tracking is 99% so long as your controllers are visible the to the headset cameras (thankfully, the vast majority of the time). If your hands go out of view, they revert to inertial tracking only and will pretty quickly (read: 5-10 seconds later) go crazy.

    Options:

    Samsung Odyssey+: A a generation '1.5' headset, this is the standard MWR headset available to buy. It's an OLED display with a screen-door filter, so it looks great and has a resolution on-par or better than the Oculus S and Vive Index. It regularly goes on sale for $299 USD or less, so it's also very affordable.

    HP Reverb: A generation 2 headset in the display department, but suffers in all other aspects. Amazing 2160 x 2160 pixels per eye means you can read text in VR like it was on a 1080p monitor a foot from your face. You can pick out planes in the sky and see distant stars. However, it has the same two-camera MWR tracking and a history of technical faults, and it's also $649 USD, so maybe wait a few months?

    The Rest: The first gen MWR headsets are all still viable options and dirt cheap, easily available for under $200 (often used for ~$100). There's HP, Dell, Acer... they're all basically the same, except for form-factor design decisions like flip-up displays or built-on headphones. The resolutions on all of them is still an impressive 1440x1440 per eye, which is better than the original Vive and Oculus headsets, but the MWR headsets use early-gen LCDs that suffer in colour quality. Still perfectly usable for almost any game, though.

    8R7BtLw.png
    Karozkime
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Hmm, I guess Oculus Quest could actually be considered in the MWR category? Or does it deserve it's own standalone VR section?

    Added your segment to the OP Apogee, thanks for that. Going to pretty it up with pics and links as with the rest of the OP.

  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    I wouldn't put the Quest in the WMR category at all... completely different ecosystems.

    (also there was a typo, MWR should be WMR)

    General_ArmchairLe_GoatjdarksunApogeeSynthesis
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Thanks for catching the typo.

    Figured I'd ask about the Quest since there just my quick glance made it seem like some overlap.

    Alright, I'll work on this more later. Making spoiler tags play nice is giving me a headache.

  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    "Vive Index" should also be "Valve Index" in the WMR section.
    You'll have to fix the "MWR" within the spoiler as well.

    KarozApogee
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see whether/how well NVIDIA's VRSS will work. It sounds like a good idea - 4x super sampling in the centre of vision only, where it's likely you're looking most of the time - but right now it's limited to a number of games and apps that have been tested by NVIDIA.

    https://uploadvr.com/nvidia-rtx-vrss-ces-2020/

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    "Vive Index" should also be "Valve Index" in the WMR section.
    You'll have to fix the "MWR" within the spoiler as well.



    Some VR Games to check out/wishlist

    Thinking of going to a Google Docs list for VR games. Easier than wrangling more spoiler tags.

    crimsoncoyote
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Karoz wrote: »
    Thanks for catching the typo.

    Figured I'd ask about the Quest since there just my quick glance made it seem like some overlap.

    Alright, I'll work on this more later. Making spoiler tags play nice is giving me a headache.

    Overlap in capabilities, but different ecosystems. It's like the difference between a MacBook and a windows laptop. The hardware is similar, the capabilities are similar, but they're different ecosystems. There are even workarounds to run software that wouldn't natively run on the machines.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
    crimsoncoyoteKaroz
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Made a Google Spreadsheet with Tabs for all the games I can think ATM. Edit it with this link

    May need to break down some of the WMR games down further but it's a start.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Should Google Glass and the like be part of this thread?

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    Should Google Glass and the like be part of this thread?

    I don't think so, but you could make a case for the Microsoft HoloLens. Not that it's come up in the last 2 years.

    Twitch.tv/FiercePunchStudios | PSN | Steam | Discord | SFV CFN: templewulf
  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    D'oh. I slammed that out pretty fast, thanks for catching the bugs.

    Probably worth mentioning in the WMR main section that WMR has a Steam app (Windows Mixed Reality for SteamVR) that links it into all SteamVR games natively. It works 99% of the time, with exceptions being usually controller weirdness.

    8R7BtLw.png
    Karoz
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    Should Google Glass and the like be part of this thread?

    No, since their thing is augmented reality which is overlaying information over a view of the real world. Virtual reality displays a purely fabricated image.

    You'd think that the windows mixed reality headsets would be about augmented reality given their name, but they're not. It's just a poorly chosen name IMO.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited January 7
    Here's a stab at PCVR writeups for the OP, if you're interested (or if anyone has anything to add).
    (In order of Release)
    Oculus Rift
    Price: Discontinued (Ebay $200-300)
    Resolution: 1080x1200 per eye
    The first of the modern VR headsets, the Oculus Rift is a bit dated but still quite functional. It uses external cameras for tracking, which requires a bit of setup and a number of free USB ports, and the headset is small enough that some users have reported trouble wearing it with glasses. However, most people find it more comfortable than its main competitor the HTC Vive, and its Touch controllers are well regarded.

    HTC Vive
    Price: Discontinued (Official Refurbished $400, Ebay $250-400)
    Resolution: 1080x1200 per eye
    Contemporary competitor of the Oculus Rift, the Vive is similarly dated. It also uses external tracking, but the base stations do not require a USB hookup (they do require power). Compared to the Rift, it offers more space for glasses and a larger tracking area (only important in very large rooms), but is generally regarded as less comfortable to use and with inferior controllers; Vive vs Rift arguments once raged all across the internet with no clear winner. A wireless upgrade kit is also available ($300), making the Vive line the only completely wireless PCVR options on the market. The Vive line is also parts-compatible with the Valve Index, meaning if you own a Vive you can upgrade piecemeal to an Index as desired or if individual parts fail.

    Windows Mixed Reality
    Price: Varies
    Resolution: Varies
    Really a line of headsets by various manufacturers using a common standard, WMR headsets are a diverse group with varying prices, resolutions, and comfort levels. Though they're generally viewed as not quite at the level of Oculus, Vive, or Index headsets, they are reasonable alternatives and often very affordably priced, especially during sales. Features they all have in common is inside out tracking, requiring little setup (though some users report tracking issues with the controllers), and motion controllers that are generally seen as sub-par. Some headsets also feature surprisingly high resolution, which may make them stand outs for Driving/cockpit simulation games where tracking and motion controllers are less important.

    HTC Vive Pro
    Price: $1098
    Resolution: 1440x1600 per eye
    An enhanced version of the Vive, it has now been almost completely obsoleted by the Valve Index. The only situation where you should consider a Vive Pro is if you really, really want a wireless option and cost is no object.

    Valve Index
    Price: $999
    Resolution: 1440x1600 per eye
    Valve's entry in the VR market, the Index is a similar system to the Vive Line, which Valve cooperated with HTC on. It uses external tracking stations that requires power but not USB hookups, which results in somewhat intensive setup. In return for the high price and setup, you get what is almost universally viewed as the best VR experience currently available. If you're getting into VR for Half Life: Alyx, it's also almost certainly the system the game was developed and most extensively tested on, though Valve reports Alyx will be playable on all major PCVR headsets.

    Oculus Rift S
    Price: $399
    Resolution: 1280x1440 per eye
    A newer VR Headset by Oculus, the Rift S ditches the external tracking of the Rift for internal tracking. This makes setup easier, and by all reports Oculus' internal tracking (after a post release patch) is far more accurate than competitors, resulting in an almost problem-free experience similar to external tracking headsets.

    Oculus Quest
    Price: $399
    Resolution: 1440x1600 per eye
    An alternative to the Rift S, the Quest is functional both as a stand-alone system (not hooked up to a PC in any way) or connected to a PC to play PCVR games. It uses the same tracking method as the Rift S, and the two are largely comparable - though the refresh rate for the Quest is on the low side for major VR headsets. The general consensus is to get the Rift S if you'll only use PCVR, but if you have any interest in stand alone VR you're not losing much by going with the Quest.

    HTC Vive Cosmos
    Price: $699
    Resolution: 1440x1700 per eye
    HTC's entry into the internal tracking market, the Cosmos doesn't benefit from Oculus' tracking software black magic, and is therefor a step down in quality from external tracking. It's quite a bit cheaper than a Vive Pro for a similar system, though, and thus might be an option for those seeking a wireless headset (note that the short range of the Vive Wireless kit means you still have to remain close to a PC).

    Bremen on
    KarozhlprmnkyFiatil
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Port is the same number of letters as Left, that's how I remember. :lol:

    Port also has the same number of letters as Rite.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited January 7
    I always am surprised when I see the difference in resolution between the Oculus Rift S and the Oculus Quest spelled out like that, because the latter never feels like it's got a higher resolution to me. I'm sure it's a combination of different factors, including the option for supersampling that's simply more feasible on PC, but I find the image of the Rift S to look and feel smoother and less pixely.

    Thirith on
    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    Thirith wrote: »
    I always am surprised when I see the difference in resolution between the Oculus Rift S and the Oculus Quest spelled out like that, because the latter never feels like it's got a higher resolution to me. I'm sure it's a combination of different factors, including the option for supersampling that's simply more feasible on PC, but I find the image of the Rift S to look and feel smoother and less pixely.

    The Rift S is LCD and the Quest is OLED. Really resolution is not a great comparison, since there's things like subpixels and refresh rate and screen door effect, but for a short summary I can't cover everything.

  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    Hey less work I have to do? I'll take it!

    *proceeds to do corrections for the next hour:

    :rotate:

  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    Refresh rate and field of view are also probably worth listing; I get a lot of my raw data from versus (please note their "better" is subjective).

  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    edited January 7
    More resources for those looking to buy is always better.
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Refresh rate and field of view are also probably worth listing; I get a lot of my raw data from versus (please note their "better" is subjective).

    Added this to the OP.

    I did put your name with an @ in the OP Bremen just to give credit where credit is due.

    Going to slowly move the Recommended games over to the spread sheet so I can edit them out of the spoiler minefield.

    Thanks for the help all!

    Seriously you're a great community and made VR a blast though it's been tough to get these coop games going for some odd reason. Something about adult lives and schedules.

    Karoz on
    kime
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Bremen wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    I always am surprised when I see the difference in resolution between the Oculus Rift S and the Oculus Quest spelled out like that, because the latter never feels like it's got a higher resolution to me. I'm sure it's a combination of different factors, including the option for supersampling that's simply more feasible on PC, but I find the image of the Rift S to look and feel smoother and less pixely.

    The Rift S is LCD and the Quest is OLED. Really resolution is not a great comparison, since there's things like subpixels and refresh rate and screen door effect, but for a short summary I can't cover everything.

    Yeah. It's one of the reasons the Rift S and Index have what's generally regarded to be a better display than the Samsung Oddyssey+, despite the resolution being so high.

    Sony was ahead of the game with their LCD three subpixel thing -- OLED has its advantages (black levels in particular), but overall the LCD panels on the new headsets are a very noticeable improvement.

    Steam:Fiatil
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Karoz wrote: »
    My ass is stuck on the broken commuter rail and will be for the for the foreseeable future.if you can get within 10km and drop your shields, you may be able to run a scan and beam me the fuck out of here.

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
    KarozElvenshae
  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    @Blackhawk1313 and I are warming up the warp coils and in need of at least one more crew member to set out on adventure with.

    I, the saucy deep-voiced Vulcan, he our determined android captain need at least one more for easy embarking!

    Edit: Currently fullish but we'll probably rotate people in as they arrive or may start another crew!

    Gonna try streaming some of it here

    Karoz on
    Le_Goat
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Finally got home. Give me a moment to get the kids to bed and I'll try to jump on.

    Again, I may be bad at this

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
    Karoz
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Logging in now

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    Looks like a lot of fun

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
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