[Virtual Reality] 2: Electric Butterloo

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  • McFodderMcFodder 'SploringRegistered User regular
    Okay, so I'm late in putting time into Beat Saber, but bloody hell the jump from 'Normal' to 'Hard' is a fair bit to take.

    Not sure if I'll be better off turning on no-fail mode or slowing it down to get a handle on it.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    McFodder wrote: »
    Okay, so I'm late in putting time into Beat Saber, but bloody hell the jump from 'Normal' to 'Hard' is a fair bit to take.

    Not sure if I'll be better off turning on no-fail mode or slowing it down to get a handle on it.

    Keep in mind too that the difficulty varies widely between songs.

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  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    Since Oculus (Facebook) killed my VR on windows 8.1 yesterday, I'm reluctantly looking at my options for windows 10. I am seriously considering buying windows 10 pro just to have any semblance of control over my operating system. If anybody has advice on what I should do, I'd appreciate it. I absolutely can't stand being forced into this. This is making me so angry that it's probably unhealthy.

    We'll get back there someday.
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Windows 10 is good and fine and you should probably update to that from W8 anyways. It used to be a free upgrade, not sure if it still is or not?

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  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    edited August 27
    I don't want Cortana, I don't want random unwanted software like candy crush automatically installed, I don't want to be shown ads, I don't want metrics and tracking data sent to microsoft, and I don't want automatic updates constantly resetting my computer and locking me out for minutes to half an hour at a time. That's why I don't really want to do this upgrade.

    edit: Pretty sure this is going to also turn my flatbed scanner and wacom tablet into paperweights as well. The number of downsides to this are pretty overwhelming!

    GSM on
    We'll get back there someday.
    Gvzbgul
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I can't say I've ever seen any of those things ever on my PC, so I guess I can't really speak to them much, sorry. (I don't get ads, I don't see any unwanted software like Candy Crush on my computer, I've never used Cortana and I think they may even be phasing it out?)

    I've never had my computer be locked out for an hours or for minutes even.

    But I don't know, maybe those are widespread problems? I can only speak to my own experiences, never really looked into wider patterns :(

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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    I don't want Cortana, I don't want random unwanted software like candy crush automatically installed, I don't want to be shown ads, I don't want metrics and tracking data sent to microsoft, and I don't want automatic updates constantly resetting my computer and locking me out for minutes to half an hour at a time. That's why I don't really want to do this upgrade.

    edit: Pretty sure this is going to also turn my flatbed scanner and wacom tablet into paperweights as well. The number of downsides to this are pretty overwhelming!

    I think all of those things have been toggles you can choose to use or not use when you install since like 1 month into Windows 10's existence.

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  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    GSM wrote: »
    I don't want Cortana, I don't want random unwanted software like candy crush automatically installed, I don't want to be shown ads, I don't want metrics and tracking data sent to microsoft, and I don't want automatic updates constantly resetting my computer and locking me out for minutes to half an hour at a time. That's why I don't really want to do this upgrade.

    edit: Pretty sure this is going to also turn my flatbed scanner and wacom tablet into paperweights as well. The number of downsides to this are pretty overwhelming!

    I think all of those things have been toggles you can choose to use or not use when you install since like 1 month into Windows 10's existence.

    From what I've read, those things were toggles for about 1 month into Windows 10's existence, and then they removed the options to disable them.
    Microsoft doesn’t want you to disable Cortana. You used to be able to turn off Cortana in Windows 10, but Microsoft removed that easy toggle switch in the Anniversary Update.
    This is all thanks to the “Microsoft Consumer Experience” program, which can’t be disabled on normal Windows 10 Home or Professional systems. That’s why every Windows 10 computer you start using has these bonus apps. The exact apps preinstalled can vary, but I’ve never seen a Windows 10 PC without Candy Crush.

    The Microsoft Consumer Experience is actually a background task that runs whenever you sign into a Windows 10 PC with a new user account for the first time. It kicks into gear and automatically downloads apps like Candy Crush Soda Saga, FarmVille 2: Country Escape, Facebook, TripAdvisor, and whatever else Microsoft feels like promoting.

    We'll get back there someday.
  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler Registered User regular
    I just aggressively uninstall that stuff.

    Also with Cortana hidden, I don't think I've ever seen it.

    Calica
  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    And you should keep windows as up to date as possible.

    Forcing people to do it is the right move, annoying as it is.

    kimeElvenshaewebguy20QanamilSpoitRius
  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    The best thing I've found so far is TronScript, but it's geared more towards repairing a damaged OS. It says I can run the de-bloat module separately, so I might just go with that. I already had the telemetry IP blocking in my hosts file from someonewhocares, and there's a registery script for disabling Cortana. It feels like a week's worth of tech problems were just suddenly dropped into my lap. And who knows, the Oculus install might be broken after all this and require me to reinstall it, suddenly enabling the Facebook requirement! An absolute comedy of errors. I hope they step on a lego (and suffer catastrophic financial failure and go bankrupt).

    We'll get back there someday.
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 27
    GSM wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    GSM wrote: »
    I don't want Cortana, I don't want random unwanted software like candy crush automatically installed, I don't want to be shown ads, I don't want metrics and tracking data sent to microsoft, and I don't want automatic updates constantly resetting my computer and locking me out for minutes to half an hour at a time. That's why I don't really want to do this upgrade.

    edit: Pretty sure this is going to also turn my flatbed scanner and wacom tablet into paperweights as well. The number of downsides to this are pretty overwhelming!

    I think all of those things have been toggles you can choose to use or not use when you install since like 1 month into Windows 10's existence.

    From what I've read, those things were toggles for about 1 month into Windows 10's existence, and then they removed the options to disable them.
    Microsoft doesn’t want you to disable Cortana. You used to be able to turn off Cortana in Windows 10, but Microsoft removed that easy toggle switch in the Anniversary Update.
    This is all thanks to the “Microsoft Consumer Experience” program, which can’t be disabled on normal Windows 10 Home or Professional systems. That’s why every Windows 10 computer you start using has these bonus apps. The exact apps preinstalled can vary, but I’ve never seen a Windows 10 PC without Candy Crush.

    The Microsoft Consumer Experience is actually a background task that runs whenever you sign into a Windows 10 PC with a new user account for the first time. It kicks into gear and automatically downloads apps like Candy Crush Soda Saga, FarmVille 2: Country Escape, Facebook, TripAdvisor, and whatever else Microsoft feels like promoting.

    Nah. I held off on Windows 10 for a lot of the same reasons, but by the time I picked it up.....seeeeveral years ago, it had the toggles you're describing. I also built a new PC in August of 2019 and it was all still there. They definitely didn't take them out after a month. I do recall having Candy Crush installed on one of my fresh Windows 10 PCs, but I uninstalled it. It doesn't keep trying to install or anything -- you uninstall them once and you're done. It's super easy to get your start menu looking just like old versions of windows with like 2 minutes of settings tweaks too -- no 3rd party applications required.

    I'm 90% sure turning off Cortana's stuff is still in one of the menus when you install, but I'm not up for reinstalling to confirm. I can confirm that I just typed "Cortana" into the windows search bar, the first result was "Cortana Permissions", and I had them all already turned off from installation. This is all on Windows 10 Home -- I haven't had a Pro version since XP or 7, I forget which.

    Fiatil on
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    templewulf
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited August 27
    Campy wrote: »
    And you should keep windows as up to date as possible.

    Forcing people to do it is the right move, annoying as it is.

    Nope. Not until they stop shoving random shit in with the updates and get better about not rebooting for them or asking about rebooting. Or for that matter letting you skip them briefly. Need to power down because there's a lightning storm coming? Too bad fuck you. Need to run a project overnight? Too bad fuck you.

    The way iOS does it works fine and is a lot less annoying.

    Phoenix-D on
    GvzbgulGSM
  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    You can install and use Linux if you want Microsoft not to have all your usage data

    Then you just have to worry about the other 32 companies that know everything about you already

  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    I haven't had an unscheduled reboot of Windows 10, ever. It's never interrupted what I was doing. I've also never seen Cortana, and I've never seen it add a program I didn't want with any update. The hysteria around Windows 10 is hilarious.

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  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Ehh, i've definitely had all of the problems, but I've also turned them all off so they're no longer a problem for me. Except for needing to turn my pc off right now, or just needing to do a quick restart and being stuck with an update that can take a half hour. That one still annoys me.

  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    I pretty much update my computer during shutdown and have never been forced to do it.

    Gvzbgul
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Rius wrote: »
    I haven't had an unscheduled reboot of Windows 10, ever. It's never interrupted what I was doing. I've also never seen Cortana, and I've never seen it add a program I didn't want with any update. The hysteria around Windows 10 is hilarious.

    "im a tech nerd and thus i know what i do and dont want on my computer, and i know what i DO want is a decade old operating system in order to be as vulnerable to security exploits as possible"

    ElvenshaeGvzbgulElbasunuRiusCampy
  • McFodderMcFodder 'SploringRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    McFodder wrote: »
    Okay, so I'm late in putting time into Beat Saber, but bloody hell the jump from 'Normal' to 'Hard' is a fair bit to take.

    Not sure if I'll be better off turning on no-fail mode or slowing it down to get a handle on it.

    Keep in mind too that the difficulty varies widely between songs.

    This is definitely true, and apparently the Linkin Park songs are some of the tougher ones available on PSVR so I'll have more of a poke around and try and find something in between.

    I did manage to crush 'Greatest Show' on hard first go but I wasn't sure if that was because I'd seen my wife play it so much.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Rius wrote: »
    I haven't had an unscheduled reboot of Windows 10, ever. It's never interrupted what I was doing. I've also never seen Cortana, and I've never seen it add a program I didn't want with any update. The hysteria around Windows 10 is hilarious.

    "im a tech nerd and thus i know what i do and dont want on my computer, and i know what i DO want is a decade old operating system in order to be as vulnerable to security exploits as possible"

    "I don't believe other people when they report problems, this makes me a smart person". Goose off.
    I pretty much update my computer during shutdown and have never been forced to do it.

    The problem is when Windows decides it's update time, you can't turn the computer off gracefully, because it will insist on updating first. Not great if you have a reason to want powered down quickly. Avoidable by simply cutting power, but that's not ideal. And if you're up and running for long enough after an update, Windows will not give you an option to delay.

    GSMFleeb
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited August 28
    The problem is when Windows decides it's update time, you can't turn the computer off gracefully, because it will insist on updating first. Not great if you have a reason to want powered down quickly. Avoidable by simply cutting power, but that's not ideal. And if you're up and running for long enough after an update, Windows will not give you an option to delay.

    Windows lets you delay updates for an extremely long time until it gets to a point where you've delayed too long.

    The "it's not convenient to update right this second" excuse does not apply when the only reason it is making you update this second is because you've been deferring it for weeks.

    Dhalphir on
  • Fartacus_the_MightyFartacus_the_Mighty Brought to you by the letter A.Registered User regular
    edited August 28
    There's no option to fully disable updates and telemetry on Win10, afaik. Disabling updates requires neutering the DLL that Windows Update uses by taking ownership of the file and then denying the SYSTEM entity all read/write access to the file.

    Fartacus_the_Mighty on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited August 28
    i can't imagine any actual IT professional suggesting with a straight face that you should be even able to fully disable updates.

    Dhalphir on
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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    The problem is when Windows decides it's update time, you can't turn the computer off gracefully, because it will insist on updating first. Not great if you have a reason to want powered down quickly. Avoidable by simply cutting power, but that's not ideal. And if you're up and running for long enough after an update, Windows will not give you an option to delay.

    Windows lets you delay updates for an extremely long time until it gets to a point where you've delayed too long.

    The "it's not convenient to update right this second" excuse does not apply when the only reason it is making you update this second is because you've been deferring it for weeks.

    The last time this happened the first time the prompt appeared was also after it wouldn't allow any more delays.

    And that's before you get to UI issues like the update pop up stealing focus. Which forced a shutdown on my SO unexpectedly as *type type type* update pops up while finger is on the way to space *accept shutdown because that's auto selected*

    I think they fixed that one at least, not sure.

    Regardless it's *my system* whatever excuse I have is acceptable. Again you can accomplish getting most people updated without resorting to things like that.

    webguy20
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    The problem is when Windows decides it's update time, you can't turn the computer off gracefully, because it will insist on updating first. Not great if you have a reason to want powered down quickly. Avoidable by simply cutting power, but that's not ideal. And if you're up and running for long enough after an update, Windows will not give you an option to delay.

    Windows lets you delay updates for an extremely long time until it gets to a point where you've delayed too long.

    The "it's not convenient to update right this second" excuse does not apply when the only reason it is making you update this second is because you've been deferring it for weeks.

    The last time this happened the first time the prompt appeared was also after it wouldn't allow any more delays.

    And that's before you get to UI issues like the update pop up stealing focus. Which forced a shutdown on my SO unexpectedly as *type type type* update pops up while finger is on the way to space *accept shutdown because that's auto selected*

    I think they fixed that one at least, not sure.

    Regardless it's *my system* whatever excuse I have is acceptable. Again you can accomplish getting most people updated without resorting to things like that.

    Regardless of anything else, I think it's been shown time and time again that no, you can't. Could they do it more gracefully? Sure, microsoft sucks at good subtle UI, but I am all for mandatory updates for 'net connected PCs.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »

    I think they fixed that one at least, not sure.

    Regardless it's *my system* whatever excuse I have is acceptable. Again you can accomplish getting most people updated without resorting to things like that.

    It's my car, I'll drive without servicing my brakes if I want to.

    DixonElvenshaeSyngyneCampyApogeeMadpoet
  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    @GSM It's both true that a.) Windows 10 has issues, including preinstalled windows store apps and obfuscating the ability to remove Cortana, as well as b.) that those problems aren't a big deal to solve for a technically literate person like you.

    I don't want to exaggerate or minimize its problems, but overall it's fine. Honestly, its biggest crimes to me are the incoherent designs. There are three different context menu styles before you even launch a window! Why???

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  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    Does windows 10 bind to a Microsoft account? I have Visual Studio installed with my work's Microsoft account, and I don't want my whole machine to suddenly become their managed property.

    We'll get back there someday.
  • DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    Does windows 10 bind to a Microsoft account? I have Visual Studio installed with my work's Microsoft account, and I don't want my whole machine to suddenly become their managed property.

    I let it bind to my personal one, but when creating an account there is an option.

    At the bottom of the page, I think in smaller text to create the classic local account.

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    edited August 28
    Dixon wrote: »
    GSM wrote: »
    Does windows 10 bind to a Microsoft account? I have Visual Studio installed with my work's Microsoft account, and I don't want my whole machine to suddenly become their managed property.

    I let it bind to my personal one, but when creating an account there is an option.

    At the bottom of the page, I think in smaller text to create the classic local account.

    Changed that recently. If you want to do local the easiest way is to pull your internet connection first.
    webguy20 wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    The problem is when Windows decides it's update time, you can't turn the computer off gracefully, because it will insist on updating first. Not great if you have a reason to want powered down quickly. Avoidable by simply cutting power, but that's not ideal. And if you're up and running for long enough after an update, Windows will not give you an option to delay.

    Windows lets you delay updates for an extremely long time until it gets to a point where you've delayed too long.

    The "it's not convenient to update right this second" excuse does not apply when the only reason it is making you update this second is because you've been deferring it for weeks.

    The last time this happened the first time the prompt appeared was also after it wouldn't allow any more delays.

    And that's before you get to UI issues like the update pop up stealing focus. Which forced a shutdown on my SO unexpectedly as *type type type* update pops up while finger is on the way to space *accept shutdown because that's auto selected*

    I think they fixed that one at least, not sure.

    Regardless it's *my system* whatever excuse I have is acceptable. Again you can accomplish getting most people updated without resorting to things like that.

    Regardless of anything else, I think it's been shown time and time again that no, you can't. Could they do it more gracefully? Sure, microsoft sucks at good subtle UI, but I am all for mandatory updates for 'net connected PCs.

    iOS update stats look like so:
    https://david-smith.org/iosversionstats/

    despite letting you put it off for months.
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »

    I think they fixed that one at least, not sure.

    Regardless it's *my system* whatever excuse I have is acceptable. Again you can accomplish getting most people updated without resorting to things like that.

    It's my car, I'll drive without servicing my brakes if I want to.

    Closer to "While we're replacing your brakes we're also going to remove your radio and replace it with a different one. Also sometimes move the controls on the stalk around. Oh by the way we've locked your garage door unless you let us work on them RIGHT NOW."

    Phoenix-D on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Oh by the way we've locked your garage door unless you let us work on them RIGHT NOW."

    This isn't any more of a valid complaint than it was when you posted it two posts ago.

    If you continually defer updates to the point where Windows stops allowing it, it's entirely on you. Should have used the flexibility in the weeks and weeks leading up to that point.

    Elvenshae
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Oh by the way we've locked your garage door unless you let us work on them RIGHT NOW."

    This isn't any more of a valid complaint than it was when you posted it two posts ago.

    If you continually defer updates to the point where Windows stops allowing it, it's entirely on you. Should have used the flexibility in the weeks and weeks leading up to that point.

    Going to just ignore that it sometimes decides to just skip that part, eh?

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    The only updates I've ever seen be unable to be deferred are critical security ones.

    GvzbgulApogeeElvenshae
  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    Changed that recently. If you want to do local the easiest way is to pull your internet connection first.

    Uh, at what step will I need to remove the cable? That sounds really sketchy and user-hostile.

    We'll get back there someday.
  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    I mean, I’m just some nerd, but
    Wouldn’t it make more sense to say “okay, you can shut the machine down right now with no delays, since you’re the human and you’re requesting an immediate shutdown. Next time you power on, the updates will be applied”
    There - now you get your updates so your machine doesn’t become a c&c node for some botnet, but you’re still in control of when the computer does or does not turn off (this thread makes it sound like there’s a much higher prevalence of folks needing to protect their computers from lightning surges with seconds-to-minutes of notice than I would have expected, as an aside).
    Regardless of the vagaries of Windows configuration and management, I’m still super excited for Star Wars: Squadrons and pretty much uninvolved in other VR stuff right now, other than to say that Megalith is still really fun times even though it’s pretty clear at this point that Disruptive Games were too early to market and are suffering from trying to pitch a novel game type to a super niche audience.

    _
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  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited August 28
    So hey, Microsoft Flight Simulator is probably going to be pretty sweet in VR. It looks like it's only going to support WMR headsets in its initial release, but it sounds like the others wont be toooo far off?

    I've been playing around with the non-VR version using the $1 30 day trial of gamepass, and it's pretty sweet! But it definitely feels like a game I need VR to really enjoy. I'm not a flight nerd, but I am an immersion nerd. It's a really well pulled off simulation, and modelling the entire world the way it does is super neat. I like it so far, but it's something where I know how much more immersive it will be in VR. I'm never going to want to go 100% authentic and do all of the incredibly nerdy (and cool!) flight sim stuff you can do with it, but it's going to be an awesome way to explore the world in VR.

    Fiatil on
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  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    So my start menu on Win 10 has started doing something annoying.

    Previously when I used to launch, say, Discord. I'd hit 'Start', D, I, S and enter. The menu would automatically highlight the most likely candidate (Discord), allowing me to launch it. A couple of days ago this highlighting stopped, so I have to press down arrow twice to select my app. This is fucking with some seriously deep muscle memory, so I'm bouncing off it pretty hard every time.

    The only thing I've changed recently was to fully index my file system, but turning that off again didn't seem to do 'owt. Tried leafing through the start menu settings, but there isn't anything relevant as far as I can see.

    Anyone seen this before?

  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    Campy wrote: »
    So my start menu on Win 10 has started doing something annoying.

    Previously when I used to launch, say, Discord. I'd hit 'Start', D, I, S and enter. The menu would automatically highlight the most likely candidate (Discord), allowing me to launch it. A couple of days ago this highlighting stopped, so I have to press down arrow twice to select my app. This is fucking with some seriously deep muscle memory, so I'm bouncing off it pretty hard every time.

    The only thing I've changed recently was to fully index my file system, but turning that off again didn't seem to do 'owt. Tried leafing through the start menu settings, but there isn't anything relevant as far as I can see.

    Anyone seen this before?

    I'm not seeing it on my pc, and I'm current on updates. Hmm... do you have any controllers plugged in? I had an issue where a controller was sending input, so the menu was do something else while I was using the keyboard.

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  • GSMGSM Registered User regular
    Man, losing access to VR (even temporarily) has such a strong psychological effect. Infinite worlds and creative freedom collapsed at the whim of a corporation. I think the opening to Neuromancer really undersold how angry Case would be about getting shut out of VR.

    We'll get back there someday.
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    Man, losing access to VR (even temporarily) has such a strong psychological effect. Infinite worlds and creative freedom collapsed at the whim of a corporation. I think the opening to Neuromancer really undersold how angry Case would be about getting shut out of VR.

    I mean, i could be "whim" in the future. Looks like "mistake" in this case, but yeah. Sucks :(

    Time to go buy a Quest and then you are untethered! :P

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