[Virtual Reality] 2: Electric Butterloo

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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Is Boneworks any good without knuckles-like controllers?
    Not quite sure what you mean by Knuckles-like controllers, but it plays well with Oculus Touch. I agree with Slortex that the main problem at this point is the save system; there's a relatively early level that may well take you one hour, which you have to play in one go. There are other issues that you may or may not find difficult, especially the way that you very much have to accommodate the game's physics (e.g. a heavy hammer swings slowly regardless of how fast you move your hands, so there's more of a disconnect between your body and your virtual body than in other games), but I don't think there's much of a practical difference between playing the game with Knuckles or with Touch controllers.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • SlortexSlortex In my chairRegistered User regular
    If you've played Blade and Sorcery then you will have a good handle on the weapon physics in Boneworks.

    Karoz
  • AtheraalAtheraal Registered User regular
    Yeah I definitely prefer that way over being in a realistic game and flailing around a weightless cartoon hammer.

    Satsumomo
  • KarozKaroz Avatar by M Lee Lunsford Registered User regular
    edited January 19
    So looking over the polls looks like the best days to coop are Thursday through Sunday with most voters being in the UTC -5 (US East Coast) timezone.

    With that Info I propose an attempt to get together to coop on Saturdays at 11 pm UTC (3pm US Pacific, 6 pm US Eastern).

    Naturally it helps to have the same game to coop and while it'd be great to have a large group feel free to play whatever you feel like.

    @ me with a game you want to propose this week but whoever shows will get the say in what they play.

    We'll be meeting up in the PAVR discord to get the ball rolling. I hope to see you all there! And if not, well I tried :wink:

    Karoz on
    templewulf
  • StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    That's 10am on Sunday morning for me - at least until Daylight Savings time changes for everyone and then it'll be 8am Sunday. If you all are playing something that has a PSVR version (and cross play) I'll probably make an attempt to pop in for a session or three.


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  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    Stupid wrote: »
    That's 10am on Sunday morning for me - at least until Daylight Savings time changes for everyone and then it'll be 8am Sunday. If you all are playing something that has a PSVR version (and cross play) I'll probably make an attempt to pop in for a session or three.

    Anybody know of a current list for cross play? I only know of Star Trek and Rec Room. Though I would definitely be down for either of those any time

    Twitch.tv/FiercePunchStudios | PSN | Steam | Discord | SFV CFN: templewulf
  • StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    Eve: Valkyrie
    Eagle Flight
    Werewolves Within
    Star Trek: Bridge Crew
    Eve: Valkyrie
    Trackmania Turbo
    Rec Room
    Arizona Sunshine
    Raw Data
    Sparc
    SportsBar

    I don't own ALL of these but I do own many of them!


    26904.png
    Karoz
  • McFodderMcFodder irregular 'SploringRegistered User regular
    Finished up Astro Bot Rescue Mission last night and, as a first VR game completed*, I feel like the bar has been set pretty high. I'd say it's probably my favourite platformer since Super Mario Galaxy, and it clearly set out to show some of the things you can only really do in VR.

    *Beat the boss, still got some collecting and challenges to do but looking forward to those as well.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3944-9431-0318
    PSN / NNID: Fodder185
    KarozcrimsoncoyoteStupid
  • ky13ky13 Registered User regular
    Karoz wrote: »
    With that Info I propose an attempt to get together to coop on Saturdays at 11 pm UTC (3pm US Pacific, 6 pm US Eastern).

    Are you proposing faithfully committing to UTC? What I mean is that DST is very different across the globe. So will it always be 23:00 UTC and each timezone needs to figure out their own DST adjustments, or will you be adjusting for an US-centric DST adjustment?

    Eternity_Sky-banner-4.png
    Hey, it's me, Teldra! Did someone say "greatsword"? [Eternity]
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I briefly tried out Dirt 2.0 in VR yesterday and was quite shocked at how badly it ran. Clearly there's room for improvement in the settings, but I wouldn't have thought that a game that supports VR would run this badly out of the box, and that on a 9900K with a Geforce 2080... I wonder whether, in spite of trying to run the Oculus runtime version, I got the SteamVR version by accident. And I'm definitely spoiled by how smoothly the first Dirt ran - but this was well-nigh unplayable without tweaks.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • KarozKaroz Avatar by M Lee Lunsford Registered User regular
    edited January 20
    ky13 wrote: »
    Karoz wrote: »
    With that Info I propose an attempt to get together to coop on Saturdays at 11 pm UTC (3pm US Pacific, 6 pm US Eastern).

    Are you proposing faithfully committing to UTC? What I mean is that DST is very different across the globe. So will it always be 23:00 UTC and each timezone needs to figure out their own DST adjustments, or will you be adjusting for an US-centric DST adjustment?

    Ideally yes we would stick to this UTC time regardless of DS, I don't know what the future holds though and my schedule is in flux while I am in school.

    But DS is a good thing to keep in mind.

    Karoz on
  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Something I don't see mentioned here often is Tetris Effect. Unfortunately on the Epic store, but it does support VR in its PC iteration and it is of course absolutely fantastic.

    Thirith
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    templewulf wrote: »
    Speaking of Beat Saber mods, didn't some of them give you menus *in* VR at some point? Did that get disabled some time in the last 6 months?

    I had to update my Beat Saber mod manager to get them working again with the 1.6(?) update on Steam, which regained me access to a bunch of stuff like searching songs in game, but apparently I can no longer delete them in game, and the voting thing (thumbs up/down) no longer shows up on the track list, just after I complete a song.

    Which I guess might be intentional; requiring people to at least fire up a track rather than downloading it just to downvote it, because people can be stupidly petty like that.

    Being able to delete tracks in game, however, was nice.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    templewulf wrote: »
    Speaking of Beat Saber mods, didn't some of them give you menus *in* VR at some point? Did that get disabled some time in the last 6 months?

    I had to update my Beat Saber mod manager to get them working again with the 1.6(?) update on Steam, which regained me access to a bunch of stuff like searching songs in game, but apparently I can no longer delete them in game, and the voting thing (thumbs up/down) no longer shows up on the track list, just after I complete a song.

    Which I guess might be intentional; requiring people to at least fire up a track rather than downloading it just to downvote it, because people can be stupidly petty like that.

    Being able to delete tracks in game, however, was nice.

    Yeah, I thought I remembered a delete button! Hmm, I wonder if I can track that down again

    Twitch.tv/FiercePunchStudios | PSN | Steam | Discord | SFV CFN: templewulf
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    Something I don't see mentioned here often is Tetris Effect. Unfortunately on the Epic store, but it does support VR in its PC iteration and it is of course absolutely fantastic.
    It is very cool, even if the VR aspect is 'only' for the spectacle and not for the gameplay. But what wonderful spectacle it is!

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
    Satsumomo
  • QanamilQanamil irregular Registered User regular
    Yeah, have it on PSVR and Tetris Effect is a treat. I super recommend the mystery mode gameplay.

    Satsumomo
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited January 21
    templewulf wrote: »
    Forar wrote: »
    templewulf wrote: »
    Speaking of Beat Saber mods, didn't some of them give you menus *in* VR at some point? Did that get disabled some time in the last 6 months?

    I had to update my Beat Saber mod manager to get them working again with the 1.6(?) update on Steam, which regained me access to a bunch of stuff like searching songs in game, but apparently I can no longer delete them in game, and the voting thing (thumbs up/down) no longer shows up on the track list, just after I complete a song.

    Which I guess might be intentional; requiring people to at least fire up a track rather than downloading it just to downvote it, because people can be stupidly petty like that.

    Being able to delete tracks in game, however, was nice.

    Yeah, I thought I remembered a delete button! Hmm, I wonder if I can track that down again

    Does anyone know if there's a way to edit a track you have on disk without creating it whole from scratch?

    There's one track I enjoy, but it has what I consider to be a legit error or two, and wouldn't mind fixing those, but I also don't want to have to do it from whole cloth.

    I haven't created or even tried editing, but thought I'd ask while it was on my mind.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    So id like your opinions. I realize everyones different, just taking a little poll.

    Knowing what you know about your experiences with VR, if someone was thinking of getting into the hobby and they proposed two options: 1) Get a rift quest as a way to put your foot into the pool ( with the option to get the cable to boost performance, even knowing his computer isnt currently strong enough to do that) and upgrading down the line or 2) dive right in with an index and getting a new computer that can handle it. Obviously money factors in, but im mostly curious if you think the quality difference between a maxed out index vs a quest without the cable is so great that its not a comparison at all.

    Edit: Sorry i was referring to the Quest, not rift S as the 'first headset' comparison.

    azith28 on
    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Indexes are way out of stock, so if you're getting one, you're either waiting a long while or are going to have to pay ebay markups.

  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    I'm not sure I understand what kind of a "cable to boost performance" you're talking about, azith28.

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    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
    crimsoncoyote
  • KarozKaroz Avatar by M Lee Lunsford Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'd go with a Rift S if you are unsure about how much you want to commit. I love my Rift and now Rift S but I honestly don't play with them all that much still.

    Regardless I would try before you buy if able. I think my local best buy has an Oculus Quest demo if you ask which is comparable to the Rift S.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    Thirith wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand what kind of a "cable to boost performance" you're talking about, azith28.

    Didnt the Rift S just come out with a cable that can connect to a PC so that the PC boosts performance of the Rift S?

    The Rift S doesnt need a PC normally and runs on its own hardware. with the cable it lets you boost it.

    azith28 on
    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    I'm guessing azith actually means the Quest, with the option to get a cable for PC-based VR?

    Edit:
    azith28 wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand what kind of a "cable to boost performance" you're talking about, azith28.

    Didnt the Rift S just come out with a cable that can connect to a PC so that the PC boosts performance of the Rift S?

    The Rift S doesnt need a PC normally and runs on its own hardware. with the cable it lets you boost it.

    No, the Rift S requires a PC. The Oculus Quest is standalone, with the option to use a cable to display PC VR games on the Quest. There's no "boosting" here. All the processing is done on the PC with the cable attached.

    crimsoncoyote on
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Oh, i thought it was the rift S. got the quest mixed up.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    azith28:
    The Rift S is PC-only. It's basically a refresh of the original Oculus Rift (somewhat higher resolution, inside-out tracking (i.e. no need for external sensors), slighly lower frequency (90Hz->80Hz), clearly worse audio).

    The Quest is a stand-alone headset, but they're working on making it function as a PC headset compatible with the Rift as well, i.e. you hook it up with a cable and then are able to play games as you would on an Oculus Rift. Chances are it'll make the Rift S obsolete, as the Quest will then offer more or less all that the Rift S can do as well as cable-less play for Quest games.

    webp-net-resizeimage.jpg
    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    I'm guessing azith actually means the Quest, with the option to get a cable for PC-based VR?

    Edit:
    azith28 wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand what kind of a "cable to boost performance" you're talking about, azith28.

    Didnt the Rift S just come out with a cable that can connect to a PC so that the PC boosts performance of the Rift S?

    The Rift S doesnt need a PC normally and runs on its own hardware. with the cable it lets you boost it.

    No, the Rift S requires a PC. The Oculus Quest is standalone, with the option to use a cable to display PC VR games on the Quest. There's no "boosting" here. All the processing is done on the PC with the cable attached.

    Wait, so normally the quest is restricted to its own little set of games? you cant use it on steam VR games without that cable?

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    Officially, no. I believe there are hacks to stream games from your PC to the Quest wirelessly, but they entail latency and you're generally better off avoiding latency at all costs in VR (it makes you sick).

    The Quest is its own non-PC device. It has its own store, the Oculus Store, similar to an iphone and the apple store. So no, officially there is no interfacing between it and your PC without the cable -- without workarounds, it's in a walled ecosystem.

    Fiatil on
    Steam:Fiatil
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    So basically what im getting at with my questions is how different the quality is of the rift quest vs the index and is it really worth double the price.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    I'm guessing azith actually means the Quest, with the option to get a cable for PC-based VR?

    Edit:
    azith28 wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    I'm not sure I understand what kind of a "cable to boost performance" you're talking about, azith28.

    Didnt the Rift S just come out with a cable that can connect to a PC so that the PC boosts performance of the Rift S?

    The Rift S doesnt need a PC normally and runs on its own hardware. with the cable it lets you boost it.

    No, the Rift S requires a PC. The Oculus Quest is standalone, with the option to use a cable to display PC VR games on the Quest. There's no "boosting" here. All the processing is done on the PC with the cable attached.

    Wait, so normally the quest is restricted to its own little set of games? you cant use it on steam VR games without that cable?
    There is some cross-buy on Quest games, where you buy it once and can use it on Quest or via PC from the Oculus store, and vice-versa. You will have to check specific games for that.

    You cannot use any PC-only VR games on the Quest without a cable.

  • FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    azith28 wrote: »
    So basically what im getting at with my questions is how different the quality is of the rift quest vs the index and is it really worth double the price.

    You've hit on the difficulty of that comparison -- the Index and Quest are pretty different animals. It's hard to quantify the strengths and weaknesses because the Quest has a few very big advantages, and several large disadvantages that are just going to come down to your preference.

    Quest:
    1) Wireless. This is going to be the biggest thing by far -- the Quest is 100% wireless, no cables, it just works.
    2) Substantially cheaper.
    3) Does not need a gaming PC to run. Its a completely standalone device.

    Index:
    1) Much larger catalog of games. Official support through Steam, and can play essentially every non-playstation exclusive VR game between its native use of SteamVR and unofficial compatibility with Oculus via the ReVive application.
    2) Better display, better sound, better controls.

    The more direct comparison is the Rift S against the Index, as you can essentially play all of the same games on both, and you plug both into your PC with a cable.

    The Rift S is substantially cheaper, the Index has better visuals/sound/controls. If you're trying to quantify it, the Index isn't "twice as good" as the Rift S or anything like that. You're paying a premium for the best in class that isn't just 1:1 "I spend $1 more for $1 more in quality" if that makes sense.

    Fiatil on
    Steam:Fiatil
  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    So id like your opinions. I realize everyones different, just taking a little poll.

    Knowing what you know about your experiences with VR, if someone was thinking of getting into the hobby and they proposed two options: 1) Get a rift quest as a way to put your foot into the pool ( with the option to get the cable to boost performance, even knowing his computer isnt currently strong enough to do that) and upgrading down the line or 2) dive right in with an index and getting a new computer that can handle it. Obviously money factors in, but im mostly curious if you think the quality difference between a maxed out index vs a quest without the cable is so great that its not a comparison at all.

    Edit: Sorry i was referring to the Quest, not rift S as the 'first headset' comparison.

    Don't forget about the Windows Mixed Reality headsets. They're cheap and in the opinion of most, as good or better than the Valve and Oculus offerings.

    The Odyssey+ is the best of the bunch atm, and can be had for less than either the Index or the Quest. It's tethered, so you do need a decent computer, but the tracking is plenty good these days. The only thing I really wish I had were the Index controllers.

    8R7BtLw.png
    Karoz
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    There was some talk about valve looking into a wireless solution for the Index, but you know valve time. No telling when or if that will ever pan out.

    3DS Friend Code:
    Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
  • KarozKaroz Avatar by M Lee Lunsford Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    Updated the OP with coop info towards the bottom, hopefully next Saturday will be productive though having some games on hand can help people have them installed.

    Feel free to offer suggestions.

    Arizona Sunshine
    Vox Machinae
    Rec Room (requires a Rec Room account to play)
    Star Trek Bridge Crew (uplay friends required to coop easier, my Uplay ID is Renegade_Karoz)
    Trickster VR or it's F2P Trickster Horde Mode

    all come to mind

    Karoz on
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Well the main reason im trying to compare the quest vs the index is because its not just the price of the headsets, but also the requirement of needing a pretty high end PC to run it. 400 vs 1k for the headset is actually something like 400 vs 3,000 factoring that in. My current computer plays anything i can throw at it even with it being several years old and a 970 nvidia, yet im understanding i need at least a 500-800 dollar video card just to use the PC powered headsets. I wouldnt just do the video card upgrade. I guess i mainly want to know if the quest is shit tier vs an index level headset.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    What are your other PC specs?

    I have a 6GB 1070, and before December, I was running an i7 4770k for a CPU (and other, 6-year-old components).
    While not quite top-of-the-line, it would have come in over the minimum specs for Half-Life Alyx from what I recall.

    Granted, I have a Vive and not an Index, however I am also using the wireless adapter which requires a significant chunk of CPU. I haven't really had issues running current VR games.

    Edit: Basically, I'm saying you don't need to spend $500+ on a video card. You can get an appropriate 6GB gtx 1660 for under $300.

    crimsoncoyote on
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    I'll have to check the details when i get home from work. its an I-7, i remember that much but don't recall the hertz. Either a 960 or 970 nvidia card.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    azith28 wrote: »
    Well the main reason im trying to compare the quest vs the index is because its not just the price of the headsets, but also the requirement of needing a pretty high end PC to run it. 400 vs 1k for the headset is actually something like 400 vs 3,000 factoring that in. My current computer plays anything i can throw at it even with it being several years old and a 970 nvidia, yet im understanding i need at least a 500-800 dollar video card just to use the PC powered headsets. I wouldnt just do the video card upgrade. I guess i mainly want to know if the quest is shit tier vs an index level headset.

    A 970 is workable for PCVR, just not optimal. It's playing games with the "Minimum Hardware Requirements" list. Individual games' requirements will vary, of course.

    That said, if you wanted to use the quest for PCVR via the link cable, you'd be looking at similar requirements as the Index, since the PC is doing the processing (the Index might be a bit more demanding, since it's higher resoluation and refresh rate, but if you have to undersample/reproject it you'd be getting a similar experience to the Quest anyways). Without the Link Cable, it's the VR equivalent of a gameboy - perfectly fine, and lots of people loved gameboys, but it's a different sort of experience with games specifically designed for the Quest.

    Bremen on
    FiatilKarozcrimsoncoyoteLe_GoatApogee
  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    edited January 21
    azith28 wrote: »
    I guess i mainly want to know if the quest is shit tier vs an index level headset.
    I'll put it this way: if the Quest is shit, then I happily play with poop all the time. I even put poop on my kids' heads and let them play with it. I'm enjoying the hell out of my poop and share my poop with friends. I one time got my dad to put poop on his head and he enjoyed it very much. Sadly, my poop gives my wife a headache, so she doesn't play with poop.

    I know you're not saying the Quest is crap, but it was a lot of fun saying "poop" as much as I just did. Also, I have not regretted the purchase once. Yeah, the game catalog is way less than the other catalogs, and the graphics are inferior to the Index, but not having to worry about a cable or PC upgrades, and being able to bring it wherever I want (including in bed watching Amazon Prime in a virtual theater with headphones so I don't wake up my wife)... I can say that I am incredibly satisfied with the purchase. For the record, I've always been the cheap gamer that tones down the graphics settings for better performance instead of investing in better GPUs, because I don't have that level of money.

    I know this sounds like a cop-out, lame non-answer, but it really depends on what you want and what you are willing to dish out.

    Le_Goat on
    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
    Karozkime
  • KarozKaroz Avatar by M Lee Lunsford Registered User regular
    I was totally fine with my Rift despite the low quality and while I now love my Rift S I still don't use it enough to matter.

    Putting a huge investment into something you rarely use sounds like a bad idea whereas you can sell your old VR to subsidize higher grade VRs is ideal for me. But then I already have the beefy comp so that is not the problem otherwise I would jump on a Quest.

  • Le_GoatLe_Goat Frechified Goat Person BostonRegistered User regular
    That was my problem with VR until the Quest came out: I didn't have a beefy PC and couldn't afford to keep up with the upgrades.

    While I agree that being insensitive is an issue, so is being oversensitive.
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