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[Virtual Reality] 2: Electric Butterloo

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    SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Fleeb wrote: »
    Syngyne wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Minesweeper VR, baby.

    Only instead of a mouse pointer, you’re a dude in the middle of a field with a metal detector and a rosary.

    :lol:https://store.steampowered.com/app/516940/MineSweeper_VR/

    fuck i forgot to put “original concept do not steal”

    5gsowHm.png
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    McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    I know there's a dev that has been making old arcade style games for VR lately - they did a Lunar Lander version 'Lunar Flight' not long ago, and 'Awesome Asteroids' is coming out apparently came out with PSVR2 at launch and I missed it in the rush.

    Disclaimer: I don't know if they are actually any good, but they exist.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3944-9431-0318
    PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    Fleeb wrote: »
    Syngyne wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Minesweeper VR, baby.

    Only instead of a mouse pointer, you’re a dude in the middle of a field with a metal detector and a rosary.

    :lol:https://store.steampowered.com/app/516940/MineSweeper_VR/

    Oh my Christ that trailer has the WORST intro I've seen in a long time.

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    burboburbo Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Now that I've found a good temp solution for the nonfunctional controller problem (to wit: don't turn on the VR stuff until you're actually in the game you want to play) I'm having a pretty great time. Horizon is great and the RE demo is terrifyingly effective.

    I'll probably get GT7 before too long. I get the itch for a good car sim every few years. I'm more of a Forza Horizon guy, but the idea of racing in VR is too good to pass up. And if I get sick, I can still play it in Real Reality.

    (I don't get it too bad, but it seems my limit is about 45 minutes in VR before I start getting a little dizzy. I can take a break and then play a little more later, though.)

    GT7's vibe is def diff than Horizon. It's really more "car afficianado" or "motor historian". As such, if you just like cars, its amazing. Like, just getting to sit in the cars and look around at the dash and the shifter and the backseat and everything, its amazing.

    Also, I can say that I got sick within 45 mins or so the first time playing GT, then I played it the next couple of nights and was able to go 90-120 mins each time without getting sick. I was never able to build any tolerance on PSVR1, so its nice to see I have this time, at least for GT.

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    BlitzAce1981BlitzAce1981 Registered User regular
    burbo wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Now that I've found a good temp solution for the nonfunctional controller problem (to wit: don't turn on the VR stuff until you're actually in the game you want to play) I'm having a pretty great time. Horizon is great and the RE demo is terrifyingly effective.

    I'll probably get GT7 before too long. I get the itch for a good car sim every few years. I'm more of a Forza Horizon guy, but the idea of racing in VR is too good to pass up. And if I get sick, I can still play it in Real Reality.

    (I don't get it too bad, but it seems my limit is about 45 minutes in VR before I start getting a little dizzy. I can take a break and then play a little more later, though.)

    GT7's vibe is def diff than Horizon. It's really more "car afficianado" or "motor historian". As such, if you just like cars, its amazing. Like, just getting to sit in the cars and look around at the dash and the shifter and the backseat and everything, its amazing.

    Also, I can say that I got sick within 45 mins or so the first time playing GT, then I played it the next couple of nights and was able to go 90-120 mins each time without getting sick. I was never able to build any tolerance on PSVR1, so its nice to see I have this time, at least for GT.

    First time using VR here, and GT7 kicked my ass the first couple of days. Day 1, managed 3 laps of one of the Tokyo circuits in time trial with an AE86 with no issue, so I thought "I'll just go do that 30 min Le Mans race in a Gr.4 Viper for some cash." Halfway down the straight on lap 2 and I'm bailing out. Day 2, tried to go bridge to gantry on the Nordschleife in a Hyundai Genesis, got about 3/4 around before the elevation changes got to me. Starting to build up some tolerance now though, did 4 laps of Trial Mountain in a Gr.4 Cayman today with no issue.

    Meanwhile, I've had 2 90 minute sessions on No Man's Sky without a problem, so maybe it's just something to do with GT7's view settings?

    Also, complete side note - whoever designed the headrest on the Gr. 4 Viper shouldn't be allowed near a car again; how the heck do you design something that obscures 75% of vision on both sides?!

    PSN ID - BlitzAce1981 FFXIV - Raiden Solitaire (Sargatanas)
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited February 2023
    American sports and muscle car design philosophy seems to be "fuck your comfort and visibility, you fucking pussy".

    ElJeffe on
    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    JohnGriffinJohnGriffin MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2023
    In a race car you are typically wearing a harness (HANS Device) that more or less prevents you from turning your head very far. (So you don't get internally decapitated in a spin.) Visibility backwards is not really a concern.

    JohnGriffin on
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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Apparently the person who designed my ex wife's Dodge Caliber mistook it for a race car.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    AlanF5AlanF5 Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Oh wow, I just saw that the new No Man's Sky update claims to have massively overhauled VR mode.

    Did they actually fix it to make it work standing and turning around and stuff?!?! If anyone knows, report back! It was my dream VR game, until I played it and realized they programmed it entirely around the limitations of the PSVR1 with no real support for roomscale or even turning around.

    I've spent a few hours in No Man's Sky in PSVR2. It doesn't really support room scale, and I found sitting to be more comfortable than standing, mostly because the spaceship cockpit felt really wrong standing, but sitting while walking outside felt fine. I did notice that some UI elements, and even some rendering elements (like some foliage is flat textures) are oriented to your "body", not to your head. So if you turn your body IRL 90 degrees, but not your character, you be looking at a flat-rendered shrub edge-on. Or you can toggle on full character visibility (so you can see arms and even your suit front, not just disembodied hands) and then... take a step backward in RL and be looking at the back of your character. I also felt that distant details, especially complicated things like tree branches, were both pixelated and blurry. Close up stuff is great, the multi-tool and the ship cockpit and stuff; aliens close enough to talk to. I'm sure I'll go back to it, but I'm trying out other things for now, mostly because they are games that have an end, unlike NMS.

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    McFodderMcFodder Registered User regular
    Yeah, I haven't played it yet but it sounds like the PSVR2 update for No Man's Sky doesn't actually look a lot better than it did after they patched performance for the PSVR1 mode on PS5.

    Hopefully another patch down the line, until then I've got heaps of other stuff to play.

    Switch Friend Code: SW-3944-9431-0318
    PSN / Xbox / NNID: Fodder185
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    DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    First time VR User here too - PSVR2. Did anybody else has the feeling that VR is intimidating? It might be because I started with „scare my pants off“ Resident Evil and basically having no real world reference point is quite the unusual experience for me.

    Anyway, I used tethered AirPod Max (because I can’t stand in-ear headphones and the volume is quite low. I might have to look into the options.
    I have the feeling the AirPod Max push the headset up and forward, but they are one of „less bulky“ cans. - I've read through some articles. Its most likley I didn't try hard enough to make it comfortable. I'll try again today.

    Edit:
    In Resident Evil 8 - is it possible to put your gun(s) back? They always fall down. Also the over shoulder grab for the shotgun seems kinda hit or miss.

    Dratatoo on
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    burboburbo Registered User regular
    I find scary games in VR somewhat intimidating, yes. In general, i find that VR has a higher activation barrier than playing games normally. Because you are putting on all of this gear, possibly standing, probably having a more physical experience, maybe even getting sick, it feels more like "doing a thing" than just hanging out. I kind of liken it to the video game equivalent of going to the movies vs watching a movie on streaming. Its more intense, possibly more fun, but also requires more energy and motivation to do.

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    QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    VR legs are really a thing too. And even with them, after hundreds of hours in vr, I have to sit down for vehicle games (jet worlds in vrchat in particular).

    There are some tricks you can use if you're new like having a fan blowing directly on you. Widely hear that that helps, but never had cause to test it.

    On intimidation--not so much, but I solely use it for social interaction lately. Which has it's own 'omg going to talk to people' type tension, but that's different.

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    templewulftemplewulf The Team Chump USARegistered User regular
    Qanamil wrote: »
    VR legs are really a thing too. And even with them, after hundreds of hours in vr, I have to sit down for vehicle games (jet worlds in vrchat in particular).

    There are some tricks you can use if you're new like having a fan blowing directly on you. Widely hear that that helps, but never had cause to test it.

    On intimidation--not so much, but I solely use it for social interaction lately. Which has it's own 'omg going to talk to people' type tension, but that's different.

    It can be intimidating in that you're allowing a game to take over your senses in a way that a typical screen can't. A horror movie is highly localized to one part of your room, and you have control over the rest of it. You can turn on the lights, look away from the screen, cover your eyes, etc.

    In VR, you can't control any of that, it's all around you, and you are just In It. And this isn't exclusive to horror, you have to give every kind of VR game that trust over your experience, even if it's a happy fuzzy carebear simulator.

    Twitch.tv/FiercePunchStudios | PSN | Steam | Discord | SFV CFN: templewulf
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    DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    @templewulf - Yeah that was exactly my first impression after starting only the vr exercise in RE - „Whoa, whoa, I am really there while wearing a neat marriage ring.” - dunno why this detail stood out to me.

    I died countless times to the first encounter because I was fumbling with ammunition + reloading. But I finally beat him by emptying my clip and continued knifing and sidestepping. I must looked like a maniac IRL :P Shouldn’t have started on veteran difficulty.

    Is it just me, blocking in RE8 doesn't seem to do anything, Enemies are just continue to "grab me",

    Dratatoo on
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    DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2023
    Let's just say...All I know about RE7 is that swamp and the front of the house looked pretty cool.

    Dixon on
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    QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    templewulf wrote: »
    Qanamil wrote: »
    VR legs are really a thing too. And even with them, after hundreds of hours in vr, I have to sit down for vehicle games (jet worlds in vrchat in particular).

    There are some tricks you can use if you're new like having a fan blowing directly on you. Widely hear that that helps, but never had cause to test it.

    On intimidation--not so much, but I solely use it for social interaction lately. Which has it's own 'omg going to talk to people' type tension, but that's different.

    It can be intimidating in that you're allowing a game to take over your senses in a way that a typical screen can't. A horror movie is highly localized to one part of your room, and you have control over the rest of it. You can turn on the lights, look away from the screen, cover your eyes, etc.

    In VR, you can't control any of that, it's all around you, and you are just In It. And this isn't exclusive to horror, you have to give every kind of VR game that trust over your experience, even if it's a happy fuzzy carebear simulator.

    Huh, I get what you're saying, but don't agree really. I suppose I think of it more as going somewhere, like IRL. It's just the experience, I don't think anything about the control over the experience.

    But again, I totally get it! Even poorly made horror maps get me real bad in vrc. But I choose to go to the haunted house pop-up in October.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    AlanF5 wrote: »
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Oh wow, I just saw that the new No Man's Sky update claims to have massively overhauled VR mode.

    Did they actually fix it to make it work standing and turning around and stuff?!?! If anyone knows, report back! It was my dream VR game, until I played it and realized they programmed it entirely around the limitations of the PSVR1 with no real support for roomscale or even turning around.

    I've spent a few hours in No Man's Sky in PSVR2. It doesn't really support room scale, and I found sitting to be more comfortable than standing, mostly because the spaceship cockpit felt really wrong standing, but sitting while walking outside felt fine. I did notice that some UI elements, and even some rendering elements (like some foliage is flat textures) are oriented to your "body", not to your head. So if you turn your body IRL 90 degrees, but not your character, you be looking at a flat-rendered shrub edge-on. Or you can toggle on full character visibility (so you can see arms and even your suit front, not just disembodied hands) and then... take a step backward in RL and be looking at the back of your character. I also felt that distant details, especially complicated things like tree branches, were both pixelated and blurry. Close up stuff is great, the multi-tool and the ship cockpit and stuff; aliens close enough to talk to. I'm sure I'll go back to it, but I'm trying out other things for now, mostly because they are games that have an end, unlike NMS.

    Ahhh darn. Yeah the stuff with the hud being oriented "body forward", independent of your head movement, is specifically what I'm talking about. My instinct (which is supported in most VR games I've played) is to turn around 180 degrees and start walking if I want to explore behind me. Having all of the trees lose their leaves as a result is....an issue.

    Using a joystick to move my head/vision in VR makes me feel icky, and is just much less immersive than using my head to move my vision. In a game that should be so immersive in VR.....man it's just such a missed opportunity. You don't even need a "full roomscale" setup to want to do that at all -- I really just want support for standing 360 degree rotation. It's so common, it's a shame that such a promising game is the one that doesn't seem to get how important it is. It should be the ultimate VR exploration game, alas.

    Fiatil on
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    GSMGSM Registered User regular
    I've been using comfort turning in every game that provides the option (turn in 45 or 30 degree instantaneous rotations) just because of the cable hanging off my head. The moment I can upgrade to a wireless HMD and just turn around, I'll probably never use the right stick ever again (unless I'm feeling exceptionally lazy, I guess).

    We'll get back there someday.
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    RothgarrRothgarr Registered User regular
    GSM wrote: »
    I've been using comfort turning in every game that provides the option (turn in 45 or 30 degree instantaneous rotations) just because of the cable hanging off my head. The moment I can upgrade to a wireless HMD and just turn around, I'll probably never use the right stick ever again (unless I'm feeling exceptionally lazy, I guess).

    I've had a PSVR1 since almost launch day. The only time I ever felt sick were in games like RE7 where you could use the right thumbstick to turn. And I felt REALLY sick if I used the stick. I thought I wasted my money on the game to play in VR. But then I changed one behavior -- I just turned my whole body rather than using the thumbstick. And the game instantly became 100% enjoyable (other than the terrifying nature of the game). No more sickness, it all went away when I only used the thumbstick to move forward and backwards, not to turn.

    I get what you mean about the cable hanging off the headset, but after a session of play, it was almost like my brain and body subconsciously knew if I were going to get tangled and I just spun the opposite way to untangle, all without breaking the immersion of the game.

    Anyway, I can't wait to get PSVR2 so I can enjoy all the same terror playing RE8 in VR that I did when I played RE7 in VR (RE7 is still my favorite VR experience ever to date0.)

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    marajimaraji Registered User regular
    Talking about barriers to starting a play session:

    I picked up an HP Reverb G2 a few months ago on deep discount… and boy do I wish I hadn’t. I can usually get it to work, but it has a wonderful little quirk: you can’t set it up if a monitor on your system has a native (native, not current) refresh rate above 30Hz. Guess what my TV has. Oh and all my laptops.

    So I have to dig up an old 1080p30 panel I had in the basement (that I was going to recycle, but forgot) to plug into the back of the PC using a vga to dvi adapter (from a box labeled “old cables and stuff” in said basement) that actually doesn’t fit where the PC is supposed to go so I have to move stuff around. Just to get the stupid device to be recognized. Every time I want to play some Alyx.

    I haven’t gotten very far with it.

    My wife’s Oculus Quest 2 works, but kinda looks like someone smeared Vaseline on a pair of misaligned glasses. Was really looking forward to the better display in the Reverb, and figured most of the WMR stuff would just be irrelevant as I’d be doing everything in Steam.

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    WindburnWindburn Registered User regular
    Does anyone else feel like the Sense controllers are too small?
    I'm 6'7", so I have admittedly large hands. For me, the clear intent of holding the controller in a pistol grip is at odds with the placement of the stick and thumb buttons. I have to loosen and shift my grip in order to use the thumb controls effectively.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Windburn wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel like the Sense controllers are too small?
    I'm 6'7", so I have admittedly large hands. For me, the clear intent of holding the controller in a pistol grip is at odds with the placement of the stick and thumb buttons. I have to loosen and shift my grip in order to use the thumb controls effectively.

    Finally someone else who understands the plight of the large person.

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    ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    maraji wrote: »
    Talking about barriers to starting a play session:

    I picked up an HP Reverb G2 a few months ago on deep discount… and boy do I wish I hadn’t. I can usually get it to work, but it has a wonderful little quirk: you can’t set it up if a monitor on your system has a native (native, not current) refresh rate above 30Hz. Guess what my TV has. Oh and all my laptops.

    So I have to dig up an old 1080p30 panel I had in the basement (that I was going to recycle, but forgot) to plug into the back of the PC using a vga to dvi adapter (from a box labeled “old cables and stuff” in said basement) that actually doesn’t fit where the PC is supposed to go so I have to move stuff around. Just to get the stupid device to be recognized. Every time I want to play some Alyx.

    I haven’t gotten very far with it.

    My wife’s Oculus Quest 2 works, but kinda looks like someone smeared Vaseline on a pair of misaligned glasses. Was really looking forward to the better display in the Reverb, and figured most of the WMR stuff would just be irrelevant as I’d be doing everything in Steam.

    That sounds super weird. I've got two monitors that are 120/144 native respectively and a laptop that does 60hz and they all run the Reverb G2 flawlessly (well, not so much in the FPS dept on the laptop. What GPU are you using?

    8R7BtLw.png
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    marajimaraji Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    Apogee wrote: »
    maraji wrote: »
    Talking about barriers to starting a play session:

    I picked up an HP Reverb G2 a few months ago on deep discount… and boy do I wish I hadn’t. I can usually get it to work, but it has a wonderful little quirk: you can’t set it up if a monitor on your system has a native (native, not current) refresh rate above 30Hz. Guess what my TV has. Oh and all my laptops.

    So I have to dig up an old 1080p30 panel I had in the basement (that I was going to recycle, but forgot) to plug into the back of the PC using a vga to dvi adapter (from a box labeled “old cables and stuff” in said basement) that actually doesn’t fit where the PC is supposed to go so I have to move stuff around. Just to get the stupid device to be recognized. Every time I want to play some Alyx.

    I haven’t gotten very far with it.

    My wife’s Oculus Quest 2 works, but kinda looks like someone smeared Vaseline on a pair of misaligned glasses. Was really looking forward to the better display in the Reverb, and figured most of the WMR stuff would just be irrelevant as I’d be doing everything in Steam.

    That sounds super weird. I've got two monitors that are 120/144 native respectively and a laptop that does 60hz and they all run the Reverb G2 flawlessly (well, not so much in the FPS dept on the laptop. What GPU are you using?

    I’ve tried a 980ti, GTX 1060, laptop 1060.

    Tried displays (native stats):
    LG UHD 60Hz via HDMI (TV)
    Dell QHD 60Hz via DP
    HP 1900x1200 60Hz via HDMI and DP
    Lenovo FHD 120Hz (laptop, dunno who made the panel)
    Samsung FHD 60Hz via HDMI
    Dell FHD 30Hz and VGA+DVI <— only one that works and only if none of the other displays are active.

    These have been tried across several different PCs and laptops, with the same results. All computers work if I only have the FHD30 display active when attaching the Reverb. Though for the laptop I used a different adapter (VGA->DP)

    Launching the WMR portal gives a vague error (Error 1-8) about being unable to retrieve a valid display mode - that eventually traces back to can’t support this resolution refresh. I can change the monitor settings, but that has no effect. Swapping monitors allows it to connect and work, and you can swap back after that point as long as the headset doesn’t disconnect or go to sleep.

    If you search around you find people having this problem from a few years ago that are either left hanging, or resolved by things I’ve already tried (changing display settings, driver updates, WMR app updates, HW reinstalls, etc.)

    My theory is they added this error to avoid previous crash issues around plowing ahead when the monitor was somehow beyond spec or not returning valid information when queried, but it now is overly restrictive on what it thinks is valid.

    I started to try to debug to see if maybe it’s an issue with DP or HDMI connections returning native info where the WMR app expects current info, but I’m kinda done dealing with this nonsense TBH.

    maraji on
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    ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    Huh. Never heard of that issue before... main workaround I can think of would be using the CRU utility to edit the native refresh rates for your other monitors so they don't upset the headset.

    Only other thing I can think of is that the 10xx series GPUs are a bit old and so their DP/HDMI support is also old, but google says they have DP 1.4 so it should be fine. Maybe try forcing the headset to 60hz and see if that affects it?

    8R7BtLw.png
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    marajimaraji Registered User regular
    Apogee wrote: »
    Huh. Never heard of that issue before... main workaround I can think of would be using the CRU utility to edit the native refresh rates for your other monitors so they don't upset the headset.

    Only other thing I can think of is that the 10xx series GPUs are a bit old and so their DP/HDMI support is also old, but google says they have DP 1.4 so it should be fine. Maybe try forcing the headset to 60hz and see if that affects it?

    Sorry, I mistyped that they’re 1660, not 1060. Which are still essentially 10xx series and old, but newer than the headset :smile:

    I hadn’t thought of the CRU utility, I’ll have to try that. I thought I tried all the settings the headset had around output to no avail, but that was one of the first things I tried and don’t remember clearly.

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    ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    Best of luck with it - shame if it doesn't work out, I've gone through a couple of headsets and the Reverb is my favourite just due to the clarity. Being able to read gauges without leaning in like I need glasses is a lifesaver.

    8R7BtLw.png
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    marajimaraji Registered User regular
    Apogee wrote: »
    Best of luck with it - shame if it doesn't work out, I've gone through a couple of headsets and the Reverb is my favourite just due to the clarity. Being able to read gauges without leaning in like I need glasses is a lifesaver.

    Thanks for the suggestion- and encouragement!

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    StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    edited March 2023
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Windburn wrote: »
    Does anyone else feel like the Sense controllers are too small?
    I'm 6'7", so I have admittedly large hands. For me, the clear intent of holding the controller in a pistol grip is at odds with the placement of the stick and thumb buttons. I have to loosen and shift my grip in order to use the thumb controls effectively.

    Finally someone else who understands the plight of the large person.
    I don't think it's a large person thing. I'm only 170cm tall and I have to actually stop and think about the buttons and triggers on the Sense controllers all the time. It feels like they were designed for "one size fits all genders" hands and as an more-or-less average-sized male the buttons are too close and I have to kinda smallify my hands to make the triggers comfortable. I dread the day that the R1/L1 "grip" buttons are actually used for something meaningful; hitting those forces me to twist my hands up a bit uncomfortably.

    I can never find the PS button on either side without stopping and turning on the look-thru camera.

    Stupid on

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    burboburbo Registered User regular
    I startes up No Mand Skyn and then i blinked, and then it was 3 hours later. How is somwthing so kind of boring also so engaging? And that first time you take off in your ship? OOoOOo boy, thats gaming nirvana right there.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    Man, I keep going back and forth on whether to try No Man's Sky. The ideal version of it in my head would be amazing in VR, but everything I've read suggests it's kind of a janky VR treatment.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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    DixonDixon Screwed...possibly doomed CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2023
    It's a great sit down VR game. I really enjoy it for that. Roomscale is great and it's unfortunate this game doesn't do it, and I haven't played the update but heard it was still jank.

    Dixon on
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    CampyCampy Registered User regular
    I'm going to give it a whirl again and will report back. Last time I played it was a train to vomit town, stopping off at sideshow City. This was with a 2070 super and a 5800X...

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Man, I keep going back and forth on whether to try No Man's Sky. The ideal version of it in my head would be amazing in VR, but everything I've read suggests it's kind of a janky VR treatment.

    Yeah it's just heavily tied to how much you want to use your head to explore vs. using joysticks.

    If your typical way of playing a first person VR game is to be seated and use your right stick or mouse to move your view for exploration, it's totally fine.

    If your typical way is to play them in a way that let's you use your head for rotation and not your joystick ever, it's terribly designed.

    It's really good aside from that, but it's a huge caveat for me. If I'm playing any VR game in first person (aside from cockpit games where it makes sense to use a joystick/wheel/whatever to move your view) I want to use my head entirely to represent my "in game head".

    And NMS fails entirely on that with on foot exploration. Your HUD doesn't follow your vision, and the entire design of the game is tied to that down to how it renders trees.

    If you turn 180 degrees from your HUD, controls that require you to reach behind your right shoulder are now reaching in front of your left shoulder (this is how you access your multitool in NMS).

    And beyond that, it causes trees not to render foliage. They use the old speedtree trick of rendering foliage as 2D sprites that pivot to face the character to look real. Well when you turn around, you're no longer facing the correct direction for that, and you see the "edge" of the 2d sprites. In effect, you see barren trees with no leaves. The game expects you to always be facing HUD forward, and using your joystick to rotate the HUD/your vision for exploration.

    It actually does a really good job of using motion controls. But I'd rather play Subnautica with an xbox controller (and the VR patch to fix the weird HUD), a game that supports 360 exploration using the headset but not motion controls, than a game that does the opposite like NMS. Having both is the dream, but I needs my headset based exploration to feel like I'm getting the full VR experience.

    Fiatil on
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    burboburbo Registered User regular
    I hear Fiatil's experience, but it didnt feel janky at all to me. It could be that im just real.early and have barely started playing, but i dont generally have my HUD up while doing other stuff. It's essentially a menu screen, and i do stuff in the menu, then close it. Its never come up for me that i might want to open the menu, spin 180, then check out tree foliage. So, it sounds like ymmv, and if you're interested, its prob worth trying.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    The tree foliage stuff happens without the menu up. It happens anytime you're on foot exploring and turn around without moving your HUD. It took me a bit to notice too! Since they're alien planets I assumed I was just on a "barren tree planet", but then you turn around and realize it's the same planet as "lush foliage planet" just viewed from a different angle

    But it sounds like you use your joysticks to turn the hud, in which case yeah it's a total non issue. The VR implementation outside of that is solid!

    Tl;dr it's designed as a seated front facing experience. Something I'm not into at all outside of cockpit games, but plenty of people are fine with.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited March 2023
    Seated facing front works great for something like GT7, because it's not like you CAN'T turn your head. You can, and this lets you check your mirrors or gloat at the poor schmuck you just passed or whatever, but you never need to stand up and look behind you because, like, you're in a car.

    If it's something where your view is locked in place and looking around breaks the camera, that kind of ruins the whole point of VR to me. Staring straight ahead and using my controller to change where I'm looking isn't VR, that's just video games with a bigger screen.

    Edit: the reason I'm torn here is that the specific appeal of NMS to me is that it's in VR. In (good) VR, it sounds amazing. Absent VR, I'm only kinda interested. And since there's no demo, I need to spend $50 to find out if I'd like it. And there's enough other stuff out there that I'm more confident I'd be into that I'm leaning no, at least for now.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited March 2023
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Seated facing front works great for something like GT7, because it's not like you CAN'T turn your head. You can, and this lets you check your mirrors or gloat at the poor schmuck you just passed or whatever, but you never need to stand up and look behind you because, like, you're in a car.

    If it's something where your view is locked in place and looking around breaks the camera, that kind of ruins the whole point of VR to me. Staring straight ahead and using my controller to change where I'm looking isn't VR, that's just video games with a bigger screen.

    Edit: the reason I'm torn here is that the specific appeal of NMS to me is that it's in VR. In (good) VR, it sounds amazing. Absent VR, I'm only kinda interested. And since there's no demo, I need to spend $50 to find out if I'd like it. And there's enough other stuff out there that I'm more confident I'd be into that I'm leaning no, at least for now.

    Yeah I agree 100% with your perspective, and that's where I'm coming from too. It doesn't feel like a "VR exploration game" when it discourages me from exploring like I would in real life. Those are the magic moments for me, and for people who have used my headsets -- just having it feel natural. The technology allows for you to turn around 180 degrees and start walking off that direction -- why hobble your game's design by not allowing the same thing?

    Dedicating a part of my brain to remembering where "forward" is like you have to do in NMS takes me out of the experience, and isn't too easy on the stomach either. Give me VR Skyrim or Subnautica for exploration any day with the current system -- a pity, given how much stuff there is to explore in NMS.

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    ElJeffeElJeffe Roaming the streets, waving his mod gun around.Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    I suspect that maybe the way NMS was coded just doesn't allow for an easy port to VR, which is fine, I understand that not every cool game can get a good VR port. I'm just bummed that this wasn't one of them.

    I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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