As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

[US Foreign Policy] Peace For Sale

12930323435101

Posts

  • Options
    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Meeqe wrote: »
    Belarus being on that list is extremely odd. I know there isn't any non-racist reason for the countries on the travel ban, but Belarus would be the first country in Eastern Europe to make one of these lists, yes?

    Next on Putin's hit list?

  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    They need to add non-Muslim countries to the list so they don't fall afoul of the courts, so they add countries that annoy Putin.

  • Options
    XantomasXantomas Registered User regular
    My understanding is that Belarus' government and public are already quite pro-Russian?

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Meeqe wrote: »
    Belarus being on that list is extremely odd. I know there isn't any non-racist reason for the countries on the travel ban, but Belarus would be the first country in Eastern Europe to make one of these lists, yes?

    Next on Putin's hit list?

    Technically Belarus is in a sovereign Union with Russia.

  • Options
    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Edit: This...this is not the CanPol thread.

    Aegis on
    We'll see how long this blog lasts
    Currently DMing: None :(
    Characters
    [5e] Dural Melairkyn - AC 18 | HP 40 | Melee +5/1d8+3 | Spell +4/DC 12
  • Options
    Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Re: KSA&Trump, he recently let slip how theyre just giving him money personally and hes giving them US military aid in reciprocation

  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Meeqe wrote: »
    Belarus being on that list is extremely odd. I know there isn't any non-racist reason for the countries on the travel ban, but Belarus would be the first country in Eastern Europe to make one of these lists, yes?

    Next on Putin's hit list?

    Technically Belarus is in a sovereign Union with Russia.

    But Russia has been making moves against them recently anyway. I have no idea why, but it does look like Putin is trying to strongarm them even more then previously. I'm sure he has some specific reason for it.

  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Meeqe wrote: »
    Belarus being on that list is extremely odd. I know there isn't any non-racist reason for the countries on the travel ban, but Belarus would be the first country in Eastern Europe to make one of these lists, yes?

    Next on Putin's hit list?

    Technically Belarus is in a sovereign Union with Russia.

    But Russia has been making moves against them recently anyway. I have no idea why, but it does look like Putin is trying to strongarm them even more then previously. I'm sure he has some specific reason for it.

    I think in the game Putin is playing you get bonus points for re-uniting all the former Soviet Republics.

  • Options
    Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Meeqe wrote: »
    Belarus being on that list is extremely odd. I know there isn't any non-racist reason for the countries on the travel ban, but Belarus would be the first country in Eastern Europe to make one of these lists, yes?

    Next on Putin's hit list?

    Technically Belarus is in a sovereign Union with Russia.

    But Russia has been making moves against them recently anyway. I have no idea why, but it does look like Putin is trying to strongarm them even more then previously. I'm sure he has some specific reason for it.

    I think in the game Putin is playing you get bonus points for re-uniting all the former Soviet Republics.

    More like an achievement, like CK2's "SPQR".

  • Options
    DiannaoChongDiannaoChong Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Trump gets that Saudi Arabia is full of olive skinned people who are Muslim right? That the Saudi Royal Family are Royal because they're the sworn (family?) protectors of holy locations central to Islam?

    He's a very shitty racist.

    My understanding was none of the countries that Trump does business in(Has hotels in) have been on the list. It's really just that obvious.

    DiannaoChong on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    If I had to guess why belarus is on the list, I'd say it's the "beard" to try and distract from how he's targeting nations with large Muslim populations by putting a Russian satellite in there.

  • Options
    WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    It's a weird colorblindness where if they see enough green they can't see brown

    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
  • Options
    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    It's great that our armed forces were training a bunch of psychopaths to more effectively crush heads in their home countries.

    It would be less disconcerting if these guys were training to be infantry. These were supposed to be officers responsible for 7+ figure aircraft. If this is who KSA sends us to train alongside our own pilots, maybe we shouldn't be selling those things to them.

    But that's crazy talk. Iran, grrr, booo, etc.

    There have been a lot of articles about how Saudi Arabia's military is basically a bunch of richboy poseurs playing the part of an officer corps while the ranks are filled out with poorly treated mercenaries from other countries.

    Saudi Arabia hires a lot of professional mercenaries too, both line troops and officers. I think they had an Australian CO who was their main guy on the ground in Yemen at one point? The Saudi nationals who serve are largely split with wealthy families filling in officer uniforms and poor families providing relatively poorly trained, equipped and paid enlisted. They're actually a pretty weak military, compared to say Iran. The strongest KSA weapon is an iPhone used to call the US military.

  • Options
    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    To be fair, that's a hell of a weapon in the right hands

  • Options
    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    To be fair, that's a hell of a weapon in the right hands

    That is also heavily dependent on who is going to pick up that phone and who you're trying to fight.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Options
    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    If you're the KSA you can rely on US support, it seems, Democrat, Republican or indeed Trump.

  • Options
    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Gaddez wrote: »
    If I had to guess why belarus is on the list, I'd say it's the "beard" to try and distract from how he's targeting nations with large Muslim populations by putting a Russian satellite in there.

    Russia is currently in a big dispute with Belarus over oil exports. The relationship between Russia and Belarus (or, more bluntly, Putin and Lukashenko) has soured lately.

    (Lukashenko was once known as Europe's last dictator. Sadly, while he is as dictatorial as ever, he can no longer claim that title.)

    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    [Expletive deleted] on
    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Options
    nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Giving Trump money > racism

  • Options
    LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    So is this the thread relevant to, say, MBS trying to kidnap a Saudi-born dissident from US soil?

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/regime-critic-says-saudis-tried-to-kidnap-him-on-us-soil


    Because the Daily beast is reporting on that

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    I think his long-term goal is re-uniting all the territories that Russia held during the Soviet Union. And de-uniting Europe, resulting in Russia being strengthened and Europe being weakened.

  • Options
    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    I think his long-term goal is re-uniting all the territories that Russia held during the Soviet Union. And de-uniting Europe, resulting in Russia being strengthened and Europe being weakened.

    Probably, yes. And one of the ealier steps on that path is Belarus. It seems like the lowest-hanging remaining fruit.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Options
    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    So is this the thread relevant to, say, MBS trying to kidnap a Saudi-born dissident from US soil?

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/regime-critic-says-saudis-tried-to-kidnap-him-on-us-soil


    Because the Daily beast is reporting on that

    In general it seems like the world's authoritarian regimes have very quickly gotten on board with paying attention to what their people on social media are saying and trying to keep them under the boot.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    shryke wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    So is this the thread relevant to, say, MBS trying to kidnap a Saudi-born dissident from US soil?

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/regime-critic-says-saudis-tried-to-kidnap-him-on-us-soil


    Because the Daily beast is reporting on that

    In general it seems like the world's authoritarian regimes have very quickly gotten on board with paying attention to what their people on social media are saying and trying to keep them under the boot.

    Social Media has also generally gotten on board with helping them, for a fee.

    moniker on
  • Options
    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    I think his long-term goal is re-uniting all the territories that Russia held during the Soviet Union. And de-uniting Europe, resulting in Russia being strengthened and Europe being weakened.

    Probably, yes. And one of the ealier steps on that path is Belarus. It seems like the lowest-hanging remaining fruit.

    A Russian friend who follows the politics thought that Putin would absorbe Belarus and use the occasion to rewrite the constitution to facilitate his staying in power as PM or whatever position he wanted. New country, new constitution, something like that. A twofor basically. Now that Putin is going with a full government rewrite on it's own, he thinks that Belarus has moved lower down on the menu, for the time being.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • Options
    ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    It's great that our armed forces were training a bunch of psychopaths to more effectively crush heads in their home countries.

    It would be less disconcerting if these guys were training to be infantry. These were supposed to be officers responsible for 7+ figure aircraft. If this is who KSA sends us to train alongside our own pilots, maybe we shouldn't be selling those things to them.

    But that's crazy talk. Iran, grrr, booo, etc.

    There have been a lot of articles about how Saudi Arabia's military is basically a bunch of richboy poseurs playing the part of an officer corps while the ranks are filled out with poorly treated mercenaries from other countries.

    Saudi Arabia hires a lot of professional mercenaries too, both line troops and officers. I think they had an Australian CO who was their main guy on the ground in Yemen at one point? The Saudi nationals who serve are largely split with wealthy families filling in officer uniforms and poor families providing relatively poorly trained, equipped and paid enlisted. They're actually a pretty weak military, compared to say Iran. The strongest KSA weapon is an iPhone used to call the US military.

    Saudi Arabia also spent billions on a sophisticated missile defense system that doesn't protect them from the type of rockets that hit their refineries last year. Having the US on speed-dial isn't just their best weapon but the only defense they have from their greatest threats right now.

    PSN: idontworkhere582 | CFN: idontworkhere | Steam: lordbutters | Amazon Wishlist
  • Options
    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    I think his long-term goal is re-uniting all the territories that Russia held during the Soviet Union. And de-uniting Europe, resulting in Russia being strengthened and Europe being weakened.

    Probably, yes. And one of the ealier steps on that path is Belarus. It seems like the lowest-hanging remaining fruit.

    A Russian friend who follows the politics thought that Putin would absorbe Belarus and use the occasion to rewrite the constitution to facilitate his staying in power as PM or whatever position he wanted. New country, new constitution, something like that. A twofor basically. Now that Putin is going with a full government rewrite on it's own, he thinks that Belarus has moved lower down on the menu, for the time being.

    I figure Putin figures he has 20 more years on the don't-call-it-a-throne-or-he'll-have-you-killed, so he can afford to take a pretty long view and afford a few delays or re-organizations of the master plan.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Options
    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited January 2020
    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    I think his long-term goal is re-uniting all the territories that Russia held during the Soviet Union. And de-uniting Europe, resulting in Russia being strengthened and Europe being weakened.

    I honestly don't think this is their long term goal.

    I think that Putin's long term goal internationally is the rollback of "Western" influence in nearby European states, replaced by their own, a general concept of providing an alternative to US hegemony in terms of international support which benefits them, a weakening of that hegemony and European unity. But I think a lot of this is in service to domestic causes of Russian Nationalism, Conservatism and the preservation of power.

    It's just not possible for Russia to control Kazakhstan, Ukraine etc as in the manner SSRs. It's not possible for them to have direct influence and control over ex-Soviet Bloc nations like Poland and such either. They're often hated in these places! The international ambitions of Russia are not to reform the USSR because that's just not a thing that exists even conceptually now.

    Solar on
  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    I think his long-term goal is re-uniting all the territories that Russia held during the Soviet Union. And de-uniting Europe, resulting in Russia being strengthened and Europe being weakened.

    Probably, yes. And one of the ealier steps on that path is Belarus. It seems like the lowest-hanging remaining fruit.

    A Russian friend who follows the politics thought that Putin would absorbe Belarus and use the occasion to rewrite the constitution to facilitate his staying in power as PM or whatever position he wanted. New country, new constitution, something like that. A twofor basically. Now that Putin is going with a full government rewrite on it's own, he thinks that Belarus has moved lower down on the menu, for the time being.

    I figure Putin figures he has 20 more years on the don't-call-it-a-throne-or-he'll-have-you-killed, so he can afford to take a pretty long view and afford a few delays or re-organizations of the master plan.

    Still not really long enough to reunite all the former Soviet Republics, unless the USA and Europe agree to it. Hence the pro-Russia propaganda war, I guess.

  • Options
    [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    I think his long-term goal is re-uniting all the territories that Russia held during the Soviet Union. And de-uniting Europe, resulting in Russia being strengthened and Europe being weakened.

    I honestly don't think this is their long term goal.

    I think that Putin's long term goal internationally is the rollback of "Western" influence in nearby European states, replaced by their own, a general concept of providing an alternative to US hegemony in terms of international support which benefits them, a weakening of that hegemony and European unity. But I think a lot of this is in service to domestic causes of Russian Nationalism, Conservatism and the preservation of power.

    It's just not possible for Russia to control Kazakhstan, Ukraine etc as in the manner SSRs. It's not possible for them to have direct influence and control over ex-Soviet Bloc nations like Poland and such either. They're often hated in these places! The international ambitions of Russia are not to reform the USSR because that's just not a thing that exists even conceptually now.

    But some parts Putin definitely wants direct control over. Such as Crimea and eastern Ukrains (obv.), or Georgia (stalled at the moment) and Belarus (in the planning stage).

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Options
    LabelLabel Registered User regular
    The Guardian reports some info on what's happening in Iraq, on some of the events and such happening there.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/24/iraqi-clerics-supporters-take-to-streets-in-call-for-removal-of-us-troops

  • Options
    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    So moniker updated the subject bar, but I don't think a post was made yet:

    https://www.npr.org/2020/01/23/799047659/the-end-may-be-nearer-doomsday-clock-moves-within-100-seconds-of-midnight
    Never since the clock's 1947 Cold War debut has it come so close to the putative doomsday annihilation represented by the 12 a.m. hour.

    ...

    The clock's minute hand was moved forward after the August 2019 collapse of the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty between the U.S. and Russia. The demise of the pact frees both nations to deploy land-based missiles over ranges that leave little time for a response.

    There were also growing signs in 2019 that the Trump administration was aiming to withdraw from the Open Skies Treaty, which allows the U.S. and Russia to observe one another's military installations through closely monitored overflights.

    And Iran increased its stockpile of low-enriched uranium and added new and improved centrifuges last year in the aftermath of the U.S. withdrawing from a multination nuclear pact with Iran that was forged during the Obama administration.

    "I have to admit [that] we set the clock in November," said George Washington University research professor Sharon Squassoni. "This was before recent military actions by the U.S. and Iran, Iran's statement or threat that it might leave the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and North Korea's abandonment of talks with the United States."

    A growing number of disasters linked to global climate change resulting from the continued consumption of fossil fuels was another factor cited for moving the clock even closer to midnight.

  • Options
    Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Our president is a fucking idiot.

  • Options
    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Our president is a fucking idiot.

    Seriously. It's going to take decades to repair the damage that trump has caused (assuming it's even possible) since he's too petty and short sighted to understand that the reason the US was sitting on as much power and influence as it has is because of the philosophy Teddy set in place; speak softly and carry a big stick.

    Like don't get me wrong: industry and economy are great, but the willingness to co-ordiante and trade with so many nations meant that the US had enough influence that it could help shape world affairs and ensure that things were at least *stable* for it's closest allies and that undoubtedly fed back into gains for the US in both military and economic affairs. And it was so fucking cheap! Like NATO gave the US tons of intel, forward bases and allies in return for basically insuring that russia stayed out of their yard which required them to do almost nothing since no one was insane enough to challenge the US in a direct military conflict.

    Now though? You'd have to be an idiot to put any sort of long term faith into the US unless trump is practically lynched out of office by voters in november.

  • Options
    CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    It's not just Trump but the next Republican President. We don't know who he will be. But every Republican President since Nixon has been a bigger crook and bigger fool. So the next guy will be worse than Trump. Somehow.

  • Options
    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Solar wrote: »
    Edit: Personally, I think Putin's long-term goal is annexing Belarus.

    I think his long-term goal is re-uniting all the territories that Russia held during the Soviet Union. And de-uniting Europe, resulting in Russia being strengthened and Europe being weakened.

    I honestly don't think this is their long term goal.

    I think that Putin's long term goal internationally is the rollback of "Western" influence in nearby European states, replaced by their own, a general concept of providing an alternative to US hegemony in terms of international support which benefits them, a weakening of that hegemony and European unity. But I think a lot of this is in service to domestic causes of Russian Nationalism, Conservatism and the preservation of power.

    It's just not possible for Russia to control Kazakhstan, Ukraine etc as in the manner SSRs. It's not possible for them to have direct influence and control over ex-Soviet Bloc nations like Poland and such either. They're often hated in these places! The international ambitions of Russia are not to reform the USSR because that's just not a thing that exists even conceptually now.

    But some parts Putin definitely wants direct control over. Such as Crimea and eastern Ukrains (obv.), or Georgia (stalled at the moment) and Belarus (in the planning stage).

    Areas where local support is sufficiently broad that Russia can exert more influence, even to the point of annexation in some cases? Yes.

  • Options
    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    It's not just Trump but the next Republican President. We don't know who he will be. But every Republican President since Nixon has been a bigger crook and bigger fool. So the next guy will be worse than Trump. Somehow.

    Which is why I say it might not even be possible; the man punished dozens of countries out of a combination of spite and some misguided effort to shore up the US economy and while 20 years ago you might have been able to get away with that, China is becoming a more and more viable trade partner for a lot of countries and once they prove that they're reliable (i.e. don't have a government that swings wildly back and forth on policy) then pretty much everyone is going to want to trade with them, which will cause their economy to boom while america withers.

  • Options
    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    CNN is reporting that 34 service members in total have brain injuries from the Iran attack. Of course Trump said people had headaches

  • Options
    Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    CNN is reporting that 34 service members in total have brain injuries from the Iran attack. Of course Trump said people had headaches

    Now I wonder how many outright deaths he has caused the Kurds and our other allies

  • Options
    GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    CNN is reporting that 34 service members in total have brain injuries from the Iran attack. Of course Trump said people had headaches

    Well to be fair, if you have a traumatic brain injury you're head probably does ache.

  • Options
    monikermoniker Registered User regular
    wm4psscytvn4.png


    wbi74ysyy98g.jpg

This discussion has been closed.