[US Foreign Policy] Suckers

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Could some of those assets be traveling to the ME to pick up their people and equipment?

    I would very much like for this to be the case, or for some of these movements to be contingency forces.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Cable TV definitely trying to spin up the ol' war machine but so far it seems pretty lackluster.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    The Canadian military announced this morning that it's moving most of the troops in the Iraq mission to Kuwait until things settle down. That'd explain our aircraft going there.

    There's a negative two trillion percent chance that the CF would be that quick deploying additional troops to the Middle East.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    I wouldn’t panic over flights yet.

    It could just be normal troop movements. But even if not, more likely it’s these countries increasing security for their personal in the region and much less likely an invasion force.

    Response/security forces are smaller and always on standby, thus faster and easier to move. Invasion forces take weeks to even stage.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    From my experience, 15 missiles (depending on their power) on a base is more than average for a single attack, but really not that much more than a typical attack. Established bases with US personnel tend to have radar and other countermeasures for both warning, protection from, and destruction of artillery/rockets/missiles in flight.

    If it ends up that there were no deaths or even casualties, it’s not that hard to believe.

    If this missile attack were even a month ago, it wouldn’t even register in the news. It’s only the current context that it’s a much bigger deal for the media to give a flying fuck on a base attack where no one dies.

    Trump would be smart to let this end here. (Insert joke here on Trump’s intelligence, I’m too tired to give a shit about humor right now.)

    It seems that Iran has very wisely selected the sort of attack which SEEMS very destructive and dangerous to the general public, and puts on a nice show for the masses but was very unlikely to cause casualties (I imagine they had the missiles target runways and sections of base which are usually empty, and probably sent them in staggered to maximize time for US personnel to withdraw)

    Seems like they have chosen a well considered and measured response to our assasination. Hopefully Trump is smart enough to take the out he is given, and Iran can continue to be smart.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    It’s worth pointing out that Iran’s usual way of doing things is to use either terrorists or proxies, work covertly and deny everything. This time they didn’t bother doing that. Instead they were as open as they possibly could be, while keeping their response within UN rules.

    Iran isn’t worried about an international response to this. We might not need to worry about it either.


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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    I know we condemn all violence and escalation, but if I’m being honest with myself, Iran giving a warning and limiting strikes to military targets in such a conservative amount is good form on their part.

    That we’ve sunk so low embarrasses me.

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    I know we condemn all violence and escalation, but if I’m being honest with myself, Iran giving a warning and limiting strikes to military targets in such a conservative amount is good form on their part.

    That we’ve sunk so low embarrasses me.

    Iran is pretty clearly being the adult in the room. I would be ashamed if it was in any way a surprise.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    It's kinda crazy the UN has a "These are the acceptable reasons for military strikes on sovereign nations" rules.

  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Remember, the UN was originally a wartime alliance that was pretty interested in the kind of status quo that discouraged countries from shifting borders by force.

    (It's still technically legal to attack Germany and Japan at any time under the Charter!)

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Remember, the UN was originally a wartime alliance that was pretty interested in the kind of status quo that discouraged countries from shifting borders by force.

    (It's still technically legal to attack Germany and Japan at any time under the Charter!)

    Nobody. Ever. Tell. Trump.


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  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    It's kinda crazy the UN has a "These are the acceptable reasons for military strikes on sovereign nations" rules.

    "We have the most weapons and reaaally want to." and "Hey, they murdered someone high up in our command structure, like all of you folks" are both very convincing argument for those in charge of the UN.

    This machine kills threads.
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  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    How accurate are these missiles? Can they actually aim them or is more of a general area kind of thing?

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Very sadly the Associated Press are quoting Iranian officials saying there were no survivors from that plane crash.


  • IncenjucarIncenjucar Not a Fictional Character Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Ukrainians cannot catch a freaking break.

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  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    I really hope people attack Sean Hannity for his warmongering.

    .. Not physically.

    The whole propaganda masquerading as news needs be at the very least regionally broken apart and at best just straight up made illegal and have their doors nailed shut. They've been really damaging for your country in contributing to the whole warmongering mess around Trump. If not for them I wonder if Trump would have even bothered with the deal with Iran which set the stage for war, he constructs his whole perception of being a beloved leader outside of the confines of his resorts and office, off of how they twist the public narrative to stoke fear and hate in regional bubbles. Without them, his criminal ways would have no where near the support it does in Congress and the Senate.

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    There's fairly graphic footage floating online now showing the plane very much a giant ball of fire long before it reaches the ground, so the internet armchair theorists are out in force tonight.

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    Krieghund wrote: »
    How accurate are these missiles? Can they actually aim them or is more of a general area kind of thing?

    Most SRBMs/IRBMs of the vintage that Iran uses and Iraq used are basically really heavy artillery. You target towns, bases, or big troop concentrations with them. They're much better than, say, V2s, but they're nowhere in the area of Tomahawks.

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    There's fairly graphic footage floating online now showing the plane very much a giant ball of fire long before it reaches the ground, so the internet armchair theorists are out in force tonight.

    I don't think it's that crazy to assume a plane got shot down by accident in these circumstances. Especially after seeing that video.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    There's fairly graphic footage floating online now showing the plane very much a giant ball of fire long before it reaches the ground, so the internet armchair theorists are out in force tonight.

    I don't think it's that crazy to assume a plane got shot down by accident in these circumstances. Especially after seeing that video.

    Yeah but this one had just taken off from Tehran airport. It would be a pretty monumental failing not to notice that. That would be a Trump sized cock up.


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  • notyanotya Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    There's fairly graphic footage floating online now showing the plane very much a giant ball of fire long before it reaches the ground, so the internet armchair theorists are out in force tonight.

    I don't think it's that crazy to assume a plane got shot down by accident in these circumstances. Especially after seeing that video.

    Yeah but this one had just taken off from Tehran airport. It would be a pretty monumental failing not to notice that. That would be a Trump sized cock up.

    It's also Iran. The US shot down a airliner once. And we're supposed to have a pretty good military.

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  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    ObiFett wrote: »
    Donnicton wrote: »
    There's fairly graphic footage floating online now showing the plane very much a giant ball of fire long before it reaches the ground, so the internet armchair theorists are out in force tonight.

    I don't think it's that crazy to assume a plane got shot down by accident in these circumstances. Especially after seeing that video.

    It's more "who really did it and why" theorizing.

  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    edited January 8
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    Either Trump A) thinks he won or B) actually started shitting bricks (probably (A))

    Simultaneously, I'm slowly moving back toward reinstating the draft. That might actually be one of the only things that will get people to fucking vote for the policy they want (not war).

    It would not, any more than it stopped Vietnam. Rich kids will have ways out and everyone else will keep voting their tribal identity.

    The world has changed a lot since Vietnam. The effects and costs of war are a lot clearer than they were even back then.

    Vietnam was a little over a decade after the end of the Korean war, which ended with a victory (in rar rar US terms)

    We are STILL IN Afghanistan and Iraq with no real "rar rar US" victory in sight.

    Uh,we're still in "the Korean War" technically. There was no victory and America tried its best to forget it as soon as they could

    EDIT: i think I misunderstood you. You weren't saying we had a victory, just that the public considered it as such.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    The thing that gets to me about everything going on right now with iran is how utterly unnecesary any of it has been.

    In 2016, iran looked like it was turning a corner; it had agreed to freeze it's nuke program in return for relaxed sanctions, it's prime minister was fairly liberal and europe was interested in welcoming them to the world stage. It wasn't perfect mind you, since iran still had an active LRM program and ties to various terrorist groups, but there was a real possibility that the country could be brought around to more western sensibilities and real progress could be made.

    Then trump came and axed the nuke deal for spurious reasons, and Iran responded by taking the high road and continuing to honor the deal.

    For three years they put up with this horseshit, watched as men who had a 35 year old priapism for war with Iran came and went from the whitehouse, saw how turmp refused to co-operate with them on ISIS, watched as Israel was praised for monstrous and illegal behavior, and through it all they did their best to hold the high ground.

    And now it's escalated to the brink of a war that has nebulous goals at best that will only serve to cause the deaths of untold thousands.

    All because an idiot manchild can't stop and think for 5 minutes about the consequences of his actions.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    The right has wanted a hot war with Iran for 40 years.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    Gaddez wrote: »
    All because an idiot manchild can't stop and think for 5 minutes about the consequences of his actions.

    And can't stand that Obama is more liked and might actually be better than him.

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    edited January 8
    Gaddez wrote: »
    The thing that gets to me about everything going on right now with iran is how utterly unnecesary any of it has been.

    In 2016, iran looked like it was turning a corner; it had agreed to freeze it's nuke program in return for relaxed sanctions, it's prime minister was fairly liberal and europe was interested in welcoming them to the world stage. It wasn't perfect mind you, since iran still had an active LRM program and ties to various terrorist groups, but there was a real possibility that the country could be brought around to more western sensibilities and real progress could be made.

    Then trump came and axed the nuke deal for spurious reasons, and Iran responded by taking the high road and continuing to honor the deal.

    For three years they put up with this horseshit, watched as men who had a 35 year old priapism for war with Iran came and went from the whitehouse, saw how turmp refused to co-operate with them on ISIS, watched as Israel was praised for monstrous and illegal behavior, and through it all they did their best to hold the high ground.

    And now it's escalated to the brink of a war that has nebulous goals at best that will only serve to cause the deaths of untold thousands.

    All because an idiot manchild can't stop and think for 5 minutes about the consequences of his actions.

    Don’t lay it all at the feet of trump, after all trump is first and foremost a Fox News viewer, and Fox News and right wing pundits and republicans have been propagandising the nuclear deal as a disastrous failure since day 1

    Trump could have never been put in this position without the propaganda arm of Fox News, an “anything is ok as long as it owns the libs!” can do attitude, and the spineless caving of the Republican Party, where, almost to a man, people in positions of power and influence changed from “trump is a dangerous moron” to “trump is a god king and all who defy him are traitors” within a year of his election, if not sooner

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  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Ehhhh.

    Iran never turned a corner. They continued and arguably expanded their regional agenda. The nuclear deal was good for many reasons but it also gave them much needed legitimacy and high ground to continue their transparent but conveniently deniable militia led initiatives.

    I think everyone’s hatred of Trump is clouding Iran’s faults here. Like, this escalation from Iran is wildly stupid and the height of brinksmanship. What, poke the military superpower and *hope* they don’t do what they’ve always—always—done and poke back harder?

    I hope nothing happens. I have family in Tehran. It’s kinda silly I have to hope for the US to be the one to show restraint here. Fairness has nothing to do with it :/

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited January 8
    Ehhhh.

    Iran never turned a corner. They continued and arguably expanded their regional agenda. The nuclear deal was good for many reasons but it also gave them much needed legitimacy and high ground to continue their transparent but conveniently deniable militia led initiatives.

    I think everyone’s hatred of Trump is clouding Iran’s faults here. Like, this escalation from Iran is wildly stupid and the height of brinksmanship. What, poke the military superpower and *hope* they don’t do what they’ve always—always—done and poke back harder?

    I hope nothing happens. I have family in Tehran. It’s kinda silly I have to hope for the US to be the one to show restraint here. Fairness has nothing to do with it :/

    Iran is not escalating, though. They are proportionally responding to our bullshit

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Ehhhh.

    Iran never turned a corner. They continued and arguably expanded their regional agenda. The nuclear deal was good for many reasons but it also gave them much needed legitimacy and high ground to continue their transparent but conveniently deniable militia led initiatives.

    I think everyone’s hatred of Trump is clouding Iran’s faults here. Like, this escalation from Iran is wildly stupid and the height of brinksmanship. What, poke the military superpower and *hope* they don’t do what they’ve always—always—done and poke back harder?

    I hope nothing happens. I have family in Tehran. It’s kinda silly I have to hope for the US to be the one to show restraint here. Fairness has nothing to do with it :/

    I'm not saying Iran is innocent of all things. I'm saying that there was the possibility of them becoming more westernized as they were able to interact more with the west and learrned that they could serve their nation better with trade deals then secretly supporting terrorist organizations.

    But on that subject: I'm not exactly irritated by them doing so given the history that the US has in the region over the past 30 years with insurgencies.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    The point is they can't not respond. Not responding to a high official of your government getting assassinated by a known foreign power at all wrecks your domestic legitimacy - the government can't even protect or avenge their own at that point

    One of the many reasons why you don't do this kind of shit in the first place

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  • The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    id still peg america as the most likely nation to nuke something for no reason but its pretty amazing to pretend that Iran is gearing up to do so

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  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Posted this in the Twitter thread, but it bears noting here too, I figure
    Tox wrote: »

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    id still peg america as the most likely nation to nuke something for no reason but its pretty amazing to pretend that Iran is gearing up to do so

    We are the only nation to have ever used nuclear weapons in history.

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  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    id still peg america as the most likely nation to nuke something for no reason but its pretty amazing to pretend that Iran is gearing up to do so

    We are the only nation to have ever used nuclear weapons in history.

    Tbf those were very different circumstances.

    ...though having said that, we're still the most likely to. Especially with the "no reason" qualifier.

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  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLRegistered User regular
    id still peg america as the most likely nation to nuke something for no reason but its pretty amazing to pretend that Iran is gearing up to do so

    It's the only nation to have ever nuked anyone...

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  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    It's kinda crazy the UN has a "These are the acceptable reasons for military strikes on sovereign nations" rules.

    If it didn't, nobody would join it.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Posted this in the Twitter thread, but it bears noting here too, I figure
    Tox wrote: »

    If you spend any time following debunks of the Chemtrail theory, you'll see that military planes take off goddamn constantly. The traffic those news breaks were seeing is real, but nothing interesting. It's when you see entire units or especially mixed griups flying together that something's up. A handful of cargo planes spread over three continents is what you'll find any time of any day if you search one of the flight traffic websites.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular


    The White House is one of the many official channels of the US Executive Branch's communication.

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    I fucking hate this timeline.

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