The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
my problem with largely saying "thing is bad" or "thing is trash" without context when ya just dont like it is that it's the exact same lexicon we use for stuff like projects made by harassers and stuff like that.
so people don't say "I dont like thing" when the reason they don't like it is because it was made by a harasser?
Using some sort of convoluted logic puzzle to concoct the worst possible interpretation of another's statement is definitely the best way to pass the time
dude I'm just trying to understand what people are saying because it's so foreign to me
The statement is that the above examples can be used in two ways, and Gustav said he thought this introduced ambiguity
my question is that aren't both the alternatives people are discussing equally ambiguous without further discussion?
0
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
edited April 2020
I’m just saying I think speaking in absolutes can often conflate moral disapproval and matters of taste
Gustav on
0
Ubikoh pete, that's later. maybe we'll be dead by thenRegistered Userregular
edited April 2020
"logic puzzle"
I'm just trying to have a discussion
but I guess I'm out now that really rubbed me the wrong way
Ubik on
0
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Jane Austen is also responsible for a very good Legends of Tomorrow episode
+2
Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
I'm tired of talking about things that I find bad or unentertaining, especially for something popular or revered, where I am required to justify myself like some PhD thesis. I'd rather talk about things that are cool and rad, like kittens or puppies or pizza.
my problem with largely saying "thing is bad" or "thing is trash" without context when ya just dont like it is that it's the exact same lexicon we use for stuff like projects made by harassers and stuff like that.
so people don't say "I dont like thing" when the reason they don't like it is because it was made by a harasser?
Using some sort of convoluted logic puzzle to concoct the worst possible interpretation of another's statement is definitely the best way to pass the time
dude I'm just trying to understand what people are saying because it's so foreign to me
The statement is that the above examples can be used in two ways, and Gustav said he thought this introduced ambiguity
my question is that aren't both the alternatives people are discussing equally ambiguous without further discussion?
I mean, yes, a lot of statements could be used ambiguously.
But I believe the intent there would be "X is bad and I don't like Y" where X is something with an inherent taint to it and Y is not.
You could even say things like, "The Usual Suspects is bad [because of the involvement of Bryan Singer [and Kevin Spacey]], while Jack the Giant Killer is bad [because of the involvement of Bryan Singer] and I don't like it [because of taste]."
It's not a perfect system because it requires consensus, but it would at least alleviate some misunderstandings and improve some of the discourse.
Ubikoh pete, that's later. maybe we'll be dead by thenRegistered Userregular
I think the thing that started this off was the assumption that the consensus was, or used to be, that people are just saying their opinion whether they say "it's bad" "it's trash" "I don't like it" "I hated it", which is where I'm at - "it's bad" = "I think it's bad"
i, personally, am tired of reading conversations going:
1: "X is bad"
2: "well that's just your subjective opinion you can't state it objectively"
dead end
instead of:
1: "X is bad"
2: "really? i thought it was good because I love that genre and Y person was great"
3: "I agree it is bad because Z person is involved and also I found this part clunky"
1: "exactly, plus the sound mix was all over the place"
and I am sorry to belabor this but I have been thinking about it for a while and I see it here and all over the internet
0
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
I guess I just dont read "X is bad" as wanting further conversation
+16
Ubikoh pete, that's later. maybe we'll be dead by thenRegistered Userregular
thank you, I appreciate it, I am guilty of that too often
0
QuetziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited April 2020
Yeah I would take all of those example sentences as having a discrete meaning.
It's bad, to me, implies that you think that the quality of the production is one some level low quality, in a way that makes you not enjoy it. Poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed, whatever. Like, for instance, I think that The Hangover is a bad movie. This would be something I'd be willing to talk about - by saying something is bad, I'm opening up potential discussion of its quality and my assessment thereof.
It's trash, to me, implies that it's some form of low quality, but not necessarily with the implication that you don't enjoy it - corny, campy, or b-grade art. For instance, I think that Tanny and the Teenage T-Rex is a trash movie, but I love it. This is also something I'd be willing to talk about, although I might be dismissive of direct criticisms of quality, as my enjoyment is not entirely centered upon that.
I don't like it/I hated it (okay fine these aren't discrete), says just that you didn't like a piece of art, without any judgments about the quality thereof. This might be because you think that it's actually well made but you still didn't connect with it, or because you don't have the language to articulate what made you dislike it, or simply because you don't want to get into a conversation about why you didn't like something. For instance, I don't like There Will Be Blood. This is something I wouldn't want to continue a discussion about.
Quetzi on
0
Ubikoh pete, that's later. maybe we'll be dead by thenRegistered Userregular
I guess I just dont read "X is bad" as wanting further conversation
yeah that's fair
I guess I view internet posting as like open letters, even if the original person doesn't want to talk about it, if I respond, either agreeing or disagreeing, maybe someone else will jump in. I don't want to waste time talking about objectivity with the new person, let's just get into the Thing
QuetziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User, Moderatormod
edited April 2020
And then you can add in uhh, problematic I guess to fill in your gameboard if you want, which is when you think that, regardless of whether you liked something or think that something is well made, maybe we shouldn't be focusing on that because issues with the creators involved or content displayed overshadows those concerns. So like, Roman Polanski movies are problematic (because of Polanski), or I might say that I consider Nocturnal Animals problematic (because of its fucked up attitude towards abortion). Here is a place that I am willing to have a conversation, but I don't want to talk about the piece of art itself, and would prefer to focus on the issues surrounding it.
Quetzi on
0
Ubikoh pete, that's later. maybe we'll be dead by thenRegistered Userregular
Yeah I would take all of those example sentences as having a discrete meaning.
It's bad, to me, implies that you think that the quality of the production is one some level low quality, in a way that makes you not enjoy it. Poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed, whatever. Like, for instance, I think that The Hangover is a bad movie.
It's trash, to me, implies that it's some form of low quality, but not necessarily with the implication that you don't enjoy it - corny, campy, or b-grade art. For instance, I think that Tanny and the Teenage T-Rex is a trash movie, but I love it.
I don't like it/I hated it (okay fine these aren't discrete), says just that you didn't like a piece of art, without any judgments about the quality thereof. This might be because you think that it's actually well made but you still didn't connect with it, or because you don't have the language to articulate what made you dislike it, or simply because you don't want to get into a conversation about why you didn't like something. For instance, I don't like There Will Be Blood.
My overall point is we should get to the heart of the matter, the basis of our opinions - whether i think it's poor quality, or you think is campy - and not worry about whether our opinion is phrased correctly (subjectively/objectively)
I just assume everything people say implies "I think" because I've never had the experience where "it's bad" meant something concrete like the DVD didn't work or the pages were illegible
but I guess I'm out now that really rubbed me the wrong way
I'm laughing because through no fault of your own you're accidentally espousing every talking point that someone who wants to defend horny anime characters would use
I will admit I have almost no appetite for deep nuanced literary style criticism of any pop culture work from anyone, ever
I take someone saying" it's bad" as their opinion
In my opinion, someone being an awful person dissuade me from wanting to check out their work
The discourse around star wars films and the marvel films nearly destroyed any possibility of me ever enjoying any discussion of any pop culture thing ever again
+1
QuetziHere we may reign secure, and in my choice,To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User, Moderatormod
i wish wish wish HV had been either some sort of traditional point and click adventure game like myst, or just had a better movement interface because I loved everything about it and had zero patience to play it.
i wish wish wish HV had been either some sort of traditional point and click adventure game like myst, or just had a better movement interface because I loved everything about it and had zero patience to play it.
I think I really liked the movement actually?
It reinforced the fact that you're... not very physically capable. You can't move too quickly, especially not in some of the harsh environments you're in. You're not going to be able to climb every wall and jump every chasm, because you're not Indiana Jones, you're just someone who is good at translation.
I also find point and click adventures deeply frustrating, so I would not have been into that change.
I listened to Teenagers With Attitude 198, it gets really deep into Tanya lore and owl lore.
I'm glad Matt's on this episode, because he'll definitely have no idea what the fuck's going on
"I heard there was like a French skunk that got shot in the butthole?"
"Have you learned any owl facts since the last time you've been on the podcast?" hell yes this is what I want to hear
"owls have no fear, other than the violence and deceit of their own kin."
"Deceit means lying. Owls lie."
"I didn't know Lexi was a fuckin' time cop."
the power rangers episode and ranger wiki are, as you might expect, both being racist
"Cause whip beats laser." "Haven't you played Fire Emblem?"
I definitely also believe that Tanya and Kat inexplicably live with Aisha's parents
"When your kids get replaced one at a time, you don't notice, and they're still your kids."
"I have two questions." "Okay." "Only two?"
"Gee Aisha, how come your mom lets you have two childhoods?"
"There's an incoming message from Trey of Triforia. Matt, that's a man who's three men."
"I'm gonna say courage, because they initially don't have feelings, which would make it hard to feel fear, except from other Nobodies, like owls!"
"Owls are the nobodies of birds." "Okay, that's a new owl fact. We're learning new owl facts live on air."
"By the way, Matt, Bulk and Skull are detectives now." that's definitely the easiest thing to understand about the current status quo, you can see how they got there
"He looks like hot Doug Funny, basically."
"It falls in line with the rest of the stuff that doesn't make any sense, and it makes no sense the same amount as the rest of it."
"How do they get off the island without her telling her parents that she's also a power ranger?"
"I think if Jason punched the Riddler, he'd fucking die, is what I think"
"That is an easily top five piss drinks in all of media."
Do the Tips at the Table podcasts cover any of the technical aspects of using Roll20? I've just started to do that and I'm finding myself a little overwhelmed with it.
3D Marios and 3D Zeldas both feel very "off" to me as someone who only ever played the 2D games, with the sole exception of BotW
the Souls games feel more like what I want out of a 3D Zelda in terms of like, level layout and combat flow
Have you tried 3D Land or 3D World? They're a lot closer to 2D Mario than any of the other 3D Marios.
The structure of Ocarina of Time is basically the same as A Link to the Past.
oh man, see I just couldn't jive with how OoT, Majora's Mask, or Twilight Princess felt for some reason - like, they just really don't play intuitively for me, where BotW finally did get the gameplay loop right
may have to try out 3D Land/World, though, especially if they have more intuitive controls than 64 or Sunshine did
I've been bingeing the last couple dozen Totally Reprise episodes and got to the ones with Kingdom Hearts discussion. Now I'm on day three of a Kingdom Hearts lore and cutscene binge despite only ever playing KH and KH2.
Posts
dude I'm just trying to understand what people are saying because it's so foreign to me
The statement is that the above examples can be used in two ways, and Gustav said he thought this introduced ambiguity
my question is that aren't both the alternatives people are discussing equally ambiguous without further discussion?
I'm just trying to have a discussion
but I guess I'm out now that really rubbed me the wrong way
New Emma is good
Clueless is good
I mean, yes, a lot of statements could be used ambiguously.
But I believe the intent there would be "X is bad and I don't like Y" where X is something with an inherent taint to it and Y is not.
You could even say things like, "The Usual Suspects is bad [because of the involvement of Bryan Singer [and Kevin Spacey]], while Jack the Giant Killer is bad [because of the involvement of Bryan Singer] and I don't like it [because of taste]."
It's not a perfect system because it requires consensus, but it would at least alleviate some misunderstandings and improve some of the discourse.
Like we ever did
Sorry @Ubik
I thought that the New Emma was Fine but not better than the BBC miniseries. the dad in the miniseries is way better for one
look at this good very nervous dad
i, personally, am tired of reading conversations going:
1: "X is bad"
2: "well that's just your subjective opinion you can't state it objectively"
dead end
instead of:
1: "X is bad"
2: "really? i thought it was good because I love that genre and Y person was great"
3: "I agree it is bad because Z person is involved and also I found this part clunky"
1: "exactly, plus the sound mix was all over the place"
and I am sorry to belabor this but I have been thinking about it for a while and I see it here and all over the internet
thank you, I appreciate it, I am guilty of that too often
It's bad, to me, implies that you think that the quality of the production is one some level low quality, in a way that makes you not enjoy it. Poorly written, poorly acted, poorly directed, whatever. Like, for instance, I think that The Hangover is a bad movie. This would be something I'd be willing to talk about - by saying something is bad, I'm opening up potential discussion of its quality and my assessment thereof.
It's trash, to me, implies that it's some form of low quality, but not necessarily with the implication that you don't enjoy it - corny, campy, or b-grade art. For instance, I think that Tanny and the Teenage T-Rex is a trash movie, but I love it. This is also something I'd be willing to talk about, although I might be dismissive of direct criticisms of quality, as my enjoyment is not entirely centered upon that.
I don't like it/I hated it (okay fine these aren't discrete), says just that you didn't like a piece of art, without any judgments about the quality thereof. This might be because you think that it's actually well made but you still didn't connect with it, or because you don't have the language to articulate what made you dislike it, or simply because you don't want to get into a conversation about why you didn't like something. For instance, I don't like There Will Be Blood. This is something I wouldn't want to continue a discussion about.
yeah that's fair
I guess I view internet posting as like open letters, even if the original person doesn't want to talk about it, if I respond, either agreeing or disagreeing, maybe someone else will jump in. I don't want to waste time talking about objectivity with the new person, let's just get into the Thing
My overall point is we should get to the heart of the matter, the basis of our opinions - whether i think it's poor quality, or you think is campy - and not worry about whether our opinion is phrased correctly (subjectively/objectively)
I just assume everything people say implies "I think" because I've never had the experience where "it's bad" meant something concrete like the DVD didn't work or the pages were illegible
I'm laughing because through no fault of your own you're accidentally espousing every talking point that someone who wants to defend horny anime characters would use
Lotta people online have disabilities that prevent them from understanding nuance and context period, not just in text
You can't talk about language 2 weeks before it's actually out so games are worse, as today has reminded me
Let's do both and talk about Heaven's Vault
I take someone saying" it's bad" as their opinion
In my opinion, someone being an awful person dissuade me from wanting to check out their work
The discourse around star wars films and the marvel films nearly destroyed any possibility of me ever enjoying any discussion of any pop culture thing ever again
Man what a fuckin' game
Jesus
I think I really liked the movement actually?
It reinforced the fact that you're... not very physically capable. You can't move too quickly, especially not in some of the harsh environments you're in. You're not going to be able to climb every wall and jump every chasm, because you're not Indiana Jones, you're just someone who is good at translation.
I also find point and click adventures deeply frustrating, so I would not have been into that change.
"I heard there was like a French skunk that got shot in the butthole?"
"Have you learned any owl facts since the last time you've been on the podcast?" hell yes this is what I want to hear
"owls have no fear, other than the violence and deceit of their own kin."
"Deceit means lying. Owls lie."
"I didn't know Lexi was a fuckin' time cop."
the power rangers episode and ranger wiki are, as you might expect, both being racist
"Cause whip beats laser." "Haven't you played Fire Emblem?"
I definitely also believe that Tanya and Kat inexplicably live with Aisha's parents
"When your kids get replaced one at a time, you don't notice, and they're still your kids."
"I have two questions." "Okay." "Only two?"
"Gee Aisha, how come your mom lets you have two childhoods?"
"There's an incoming message from Trey of Triforia. Matt, that's a man who's three men."
"I'm gonna say courage, because they initially don't have feelings, which would make it hard to feel fear, except from other Nobodies, like owls!"
"Owls are the nobodies of birds." "Okay, that's a new owl fact. We're learning new owl facts live on air."
"By the way, Matt, Bulk and Skull are detectives now." that's definitely the easiest thing to understand about the current status quo, you can see how they got there
"He looks like hot Doug Funny, basically."
"It falls in line with the rest of the stuff that doesn't make any sense, and it makes no sense the same amount as the rest of it."
"How do they get off the island without her telling her parents that she's also a power ranger?"
"I think if Jason punched the Riddler, he'd fucking die, is what I think"
"That is an easily top five piss drinks in all of media."
Damn, didn’t know she was still writing, and for tv no less
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
Do the Tips at the Table podcasts cover any of the technical aspects of using Roll20? I've just started to do that and I'm finding myself a little overwhelmed with it.
I would argue with this post but I didn't read it
oh man, see I just couldn't jive with how OoT, Majora's Mask, or Twilight Princess felt for some reason - like, they just really don't play intuitively for me, where BotW finally did get the gameplay loop right
may have to try out 3D Land/World, though, especially if they have more intuitive controls than 64 or Sunshine did
we're going to debate the nature of good and evil now to determine if the concept of a bad game can exist
Time Travel is a helluva thing
Custer's Revenge is a bad game.
Got it in one.
Theseus is a really bad dad.
It was a ship of theseus reference in the podcast, but I didn't provide enough context to make that clear.