If it helps anyone who is sad about their 401k, consider this:
As long as you expect to continue buying stocks over the next decade plus, i.e. if you are not close to or in retirement, low stock prices are good for you.
Stuff always recovers, don't pull all your money out in a panic
Stocks carry real risk that you will lose real money. They dont "always recover". They will probably always end up priced higher on a post-inflation basis eventually, but in real terms, you can lose money.
"You cant lose money long term buying stocks" is cargo cult delusional.
The trouble is there is no good alternative.
Real estate. 👀
UGH
We literally just had a housing collapse.
Also, unless it is an investment property, the only way to access your real estate wealth is to become homeless. There was also just a bunch of pages arguing about the merits of conceptualizing your home as an investment rather than a home. I'm firmly in the 'it's not an investment' camp. There are definitely benefits to owning (which is why we have a condo) but I can't sell off our sun room to get some spare cash the way I can sell 5% of my stock holdings.
There's lots more ways to access your real estate wealth. Sell and buy a cheaper house. This is literally what a ton of people right now are doing. Unloading homes they bought 30 years ago as they retire and buying cheaper homes (smaller because your kids have moved out and further from the city generally) and pocketing the difference to supplement their retirement savings.
But who's going to buy boomer mcmansions? Young people looking to start families have student debt already, so can't afford to take out a mortgage.
Someone will. They only have value because someone will pay that much for them.
At least, that's now how property values (the taxable amount) are calculated where I'm at.
That value comes from what other people sold their homes at, or if it's a new house, what the contractor's consultant says it is. So if no one is selling, the market and tax value falls. This has been causing problems in multiple ways in cities like Detroit and my own, KC. For KC the problem is that now the downtown area has been regaining population, people are settling down in formerly run down neighborhoods (that is, gentrification) residents are bristling at the increased property tax values. It's not the current and older residents are upset at one another, from all indications neighbors are getting along just fine. It's that the tax value formulation is starting to push out long term residents due to a few sales increasing the neighborhood value. Those that are moving in, by all accounts, aren't flippers or seeking investments; They are first time buyers and families looking for decently priced housing.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
All told the S&P lost 11% this week. Which is a Correction. If it loses another 9%, or continues to lose value for another 7 weeks (2 months) it'll be a Bear Market. If it continues to lose value through to November it'll be a landslide election.
The worst thing is the fed announced they were planning a rate decrease 30 minutes ago and nothin...
It rebounded to only down 350
All in all Friday was pretty similar to Wednesday. The NASDAQ is actually up a little bit at close. I wouldn't be surprised if things started to even out from here.
Everyone seems to agree this shit was weird, though.
I don't know, I think the retail market is pretty spooked, Monday could be fun.
The worst thing is the fed announced they were planning a rate decrease 30 minutes ago and nothin...
It rebounded to only down 350
All in all Friday was pretty similar to Wednesday. The NASDAQ is actually up a little bit at close. I wouldn't be surprised if things started to even out from here.
Everyone seems to agree this shit was weird, though.
I don't know, I think the retail market is pretty spooked, Monday could be fun.
Futures are green for now but who knows what happens over the weekend? If we get more bad sounding coronavirus headlines maybe things turn south again by Monday.
Honestly, it's probably safe to say that the stock market was propped up as a single pike of pebbles with all sorts of BS. So all that really needed to happen was that we got the one thing that knocked the most of the pile down and it looks like the virus outbreak was that one thing. I kind of suspect we'll see this drop continue because once the rich don't have their illusion of a good economy, IMO the economy is not good. They'll be forced to face the reality that there is a ton of stuff that is in really bad shape (wages are still to low, most companies are robbing their employees, our infrastructure is shit, our healthcare system is shit and our safety net is shit).
I'll have to dig up the article by Powell was apparently before Congress either earlier this week or towards the end of last week and he had to push back against republican assertions that the social safety net was the reason so many people weren't seeking jobs. He almost got it right when he told them the real cause. He cited lack of education opportunities, though I do think he did mention some of that was on employers being unwilling to pay for training. Sadly he didn't also hit them for the fact that companies are really fucking cheap and looking for ways to fuck their employees.
Don't worry about those pebbles falling off the pile, the admin is apparently looking at cutting rates and taxes to stack them back on taller and thinner.
The Republicans need to keep the economy running hot until after the elections because they are expecting a lot of people to vote for them on the grounds of “Trump is an asshole but my 401k is doing great.”
Then they are probably fucked on that grounds, since it sounds like the losses have erased the last two years of gains. That's probably plenty of people that just got fucked out of being able to retire or stay retired.
Don't worry about those pebbles falling off the pile, the admin is apparently looking at cutting rates and taxes to stack them back on taller and thinner.
To those that hope for the stock market to crash this year so voters can blame the current administration, let me remind you that the 2008 crash was blamed on Obama despite Bush being president at the time. We're just too close to the election for voters to understand that the candidates for president are not actually president yet.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
To those that hope for the stock market to crash this year so voters can blame the current administration, let me remind you that the 2008 crash was blamed on Obama despite Bush being president at the time. We're just too close to the election for voters to understand that the candidates for president are not actually president yet.
Obama was blamed for not fixing things immediately through blood magic or w/e. Maybe he was years later as Bush was stuffed down the memory hole but not in 07/08.
To those that hope for the stock market to crash this year so voters can blame the current administration, let me remind you that the 2008 crash was blamed on Obama despite Bush being president at the time. We're just too close to the election for voters to understand that the candidates for president are not actually president yet.
I'd be fine with the crash being blamed on a Democratic President since it means we elected a Democratic President.
To those that hope for the stock market to crash this year so voters can blame the current administration, let me remind you that the 2008 crash was blamed on Obama despite Bush being president at the time. We're just too close to the election for voters to understand that the candidates for president are not actually president yet.
Obama was blamed for not fixing things immediately through blood magic or w/e. Maybe he was years later as Bush was stuffed down the memory hole but not in 07/08.
Obama was blamed for 9/11 in some circles.
I wouldn't put too much confidence in them not blaming the current drop on Obama.
The propoganda apparatus of the right, and it's platform enablers, is just so fucking bad at the moment. It's a testament to the incompetence, corruption and idiocy of this current Administration, that this is even a close race at this point. I think you put any bland chucklefuck that doesn't immediately engender revulsion (sorry, Ted) or pity (sorry, Marco), and I don't think Democrats have a chance this year.
To those that hope for the stock market to crash this year so voters can blame the current administration, let me remind you that the 2008 crash was blamed on Obama despite Bush being president at the time. We're just too close to the election for voters to understand that the candidates for president are not actually president yet.
A Democratic president will be blamed for everything anyways: The economy, the weather, gas prices, current pop culture trends, any lego piece a conservative steps on in the night, etc.
To those that hope for the stock market to crash this year so voters can blame the current administration, let me remind you that the 2008 crash was blamed on Obama despite Bush being president at the time. We're just too close to the election for voters to understand that the candidates for president are not actually president yet.
Voters blamed Obama for things that happened in 2008 - when he wasn't President -in 2010.
In 2008 they blamed the living fuck out of Bush.
RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
Come Overwatch with meeeee
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
Don't worry, I'm not relying on the people in charge to do anything themselves. The people just need a little push.
Then they are probably fucked on that grounds, since it sounds like the losses have erased the last two years of gains. That's probably plenty of people that just got fucked out of being able to retire or stay retired.
Retirees and soon to be retirees shouldn't have this much exposure to equities.
Then they are probably fucked on that grounds, since it sounds like the losses have erased the last two years of gains. That's probably plenty of people that just got fucked out of being able to retire or stay retired.
Retirees and soon to be retirees shouldn't have this much exposure to equities.
Operative word shouldn't. A huge portion of people are retiring with debt these days.
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
Don't worry, I'm not relying on the people in charge to do anything themselves. The people just need a little push.
No, see, that's the funny part. Because they don't just need a little push and we've had ample opportunity to see that over the years.
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
Don't worry, I'm not relying on the people in charge to do anything themselves. The people just need a little push.
No, see, that's the funny part. Because they don't just need a little push and we've had ample opportunity to see that over the years.
What is different between today and 2008? Sanders' and Warrens' popularity isn't a fucking accident. What do you think Occupy Wallstreet turns into with an organized leftist ground game? I am fucking sick of this smarmy defeatist bullshit. Fucking do something.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
On the topic of who will get blamed, Trump himself and also at least one guy I accidentally heard on npr a few days ago have already said that the real reason for the market downturn is Bernie Sanders' big win in Nevada
Am I pushing accelerationist bullshit? The market is fucking collapsing on its own, we didn't have to accelerate shit. It's just dropping the facade.
Not sure that "collapsing" is a good description of what's happening right now - the Dow's still well above where it was in Dec 2018.
It's not good, and things obviously might get worse yet, but this isn't an economic apocalypse.
Yeah, we'll have to see what happens next week, but this isn't even a bear market yet. Nor is it the first Correction under Trump. Hell, there was one in February 2018. We are definitely closer to a Recession today than at the beginning of the expansion, and COVID is certainly the kind of exogenous shock that could well tip us into one, but... that's what business cycles do. They cycle. And respond to outside events. Typically in ways that suck for the typical person. Which is why unregulated capitalism is a horror show that needs to be regulated.
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
Don't worry, I'm not relying on the people in charge to do anything themselves. The people just need a little push.
No, see, that's the funny part. Because they don't just need a little push and we've had ample opportunity to see that over the years.
What is different between today and 2008? Sanders' and Warrens' popularity isn't a fucking accident. What do you think Occupy Wallstreet turns into with an organized leftist ground game? I am fucking sick of this smarmy defeatist bullshit. Fucking do something.
Sanders support, just as an easy example, is heavily age-based. That kind of thing strongly suggests there's something different at work here then just 2008 considering how many people would have been like tweens for the 2008 recession. Plus there's been longer running trends on these issues then the last decade anyway.
And as bad as the Great Recession was, it was still no Great Depression and that didn't move people in the way you are wishing for. So the theory here seems implausible and mostly just leads to a lot of suffering. And that ain't even touching on the question of which way people jump in reaction to these kind of things.
Not being into accelerationism is not defeatism. It only looks that way if your ideology allows exclusively for revolution or nothing.
Am I pushing accelerationist bullshit? The market is fucking collapsing on its own, we didn't have to accelerate shit. It's just dropping the facade.
Not sure that "collapsing" is a good description of what's happening right now - the Dow's still well above where it was in Dec 2018.
It's not good, and things obviously might get worse yet, but this isn't an economic apocalypse.
Yeah, we'll have to see what happens next week, but this isn't even a bear market yet. Nor is it the first Correction under Trump. Hell, there was one in February 2018. We are definitely closer to a Recession today than at the beginning of the expansion, and COVID is certainly the kind of exogenous shock that could well tip us into one, but... that's what business cycles do. They cycle. And respond to outside events. Typically in ways that suck for the typical person. Which is why unregulated capitalism is a horror show that needs to be regulated.
I saw some recent articles from bull investors saying that the market isn't "functioning correctly" and it makes me scream. This is a perfect example of the stock market actually operating correctly: when you have an exogenous supply shock value is SUPPOSED to go down! That's what happens when the physical economy can't meet expectations!
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
Don't worry, I'm not relying on the people in charge to do anything themselves. The people just need a little push.
No, see, that's the funny part. Because they don't just need a little push and we've had ample opportunity to see that over the years.
What is different between today and 2008? Sanders' and Warrens' popularity isn't a fucking accident. What do you think Occupy Wallstreet turns into with an organized leftist ground game? I am fucking sick of this smarmy defeatist bullshit. Fucking do something.
Sanders support, just as an easy example, is heavily age-based. That kind of thing strongly suggests there's something different at work here then just 2008 considering how many people would have been like tweens for the 2008 recession. Plus there's been longer running trends on these issues then the last decade anyway.
And as bad as the Great Recession was, it was still no Great Depression and that didn't move people in the way you are wishing for. So the theory here seems implausible and mostly just leads to a lot of suffering. And that ain't even touching on the question of which way people jump in reaction to these kind of things.
Not being into accelerationism is not defeatism. It only looks that way if your ideology allows exclusively for revolution or nothing.
Speaking from personal experience, having come of age with the recession and feeling the impact of it extremely directly on my life while lacking the ability to do anything about it is exactly what motivates my activism today, I think you will find a very similar attitude brimming among American millennials, I think it is exactly where Sanders' base of support comes from. We never stopped being furious about it. If it happened again today I think it would be a tipping point for a lot of people.
The suffering happens regardless. I see nothing wrong in wanting widespread visibility for the injustice that has and is already happening under modern economic policy. It's not like I have the least impact on the market myself anyway.
Am I pushing accelerationist bullshit? The market is fucking collapsing on its own, we didn't have to accelerate shit. It's just dropping the facade.
Not sure that "collapsing" is a good description of what's happening right now - the Dow's still well above where it was in Dec 2018.
It's not good, and things obviously might get worse yet, but this isn't an economic apocalypse.
Yeah, we'll have to see what happens next week, but this isn't even a bear market yet. Nor is it the first Correction under Trump. Hell, there was one in February 2018. We are definitely closer to a Recession today than at the beginning of the expansion, and COVID is certainly the kind of exogenous shock that could well tip us into one, but... that's what business cycles do. They cycle. And respond to outside events. Typically in ways that suck for the typical person. Which is why unregulated capitalism is a horror show that needs to be regulated.
I saw some recent articles from bull investors saying that the market isn't "functioning correctly" and it makes me scream. This is a perfect example of the stock market actually operating correctly: when you have an exogenous supply shock value is SUPPOSED to go down! That's what happens when the physical economy can't meet expectations!
Reminds me of the fact that, for the most part, working the trading desk is a young person's gig, and intentionally burnout based so it's either up or out. There are some old hands, but most traders today have literally never experienced a rate environment that wasn't accommodating, or a contraction. They just literally don't know how to operate with it because it's been over a decade since that reality existed.
There's a pretty big difference between the 08 recession and the stock market plummet right now. The former actually involved the market not functioning properly and capital not moving around, creating a liquidity trap that kept any kind of growth at the firm level from happening. This market crash -- if it is a crash -- is entirely the result of supply chain shocks. It's nothing more than an indicator of coming pain caused by covid-19. We'll see if it's actually warranted next Friday when the new job numbers come out.
There's a pretty big difference between the 08 recession and the stock market plummet right now. The former actually involved the market not functioning properly and capital not moving around, creating a liquidity trap that kept any kind of growth at the firm level from happening. This market crash -- if it is a crash -- is entirely the result of supply chain shocks. It's nothing more than an indicator of coming pain caused by covid-19. We'll see if it's actually warranted next Friday when the new job numbers come out.
Oh sure, but it's more that any lessons gleaned from 2008 have been forgotten in the roles that are most directly impacted. The 23 year old at Goldman fresh out of college the year before the crash is now a 35 year old in middle management and doesn't have to care.
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
Don't worry, I'm not relying on the people in charge to do anything themselves. The people just need a little push.
No, see, that's the funny part. Because they don't just need a little push and we've had ample opportunity to see that over the years.
What is different between today and 2008? Sanders' and Warrens' popularity isn't a fucking accident. What do you think Occupy Wallstreet turns into with an organized leftist ground game? I am fucking sick of this smarmy defeatist bullshit. Fucking do something.
Sanders support, just as an easy example, is heavily age-based. That kind of thing strongly suggests there's something different at work here then just 2008 considering how many people would have been like tweens for the 2008 recession. Plus there's been longer running trends on these issues then the last decade anyway.
And as bad as the Great Recession was, it was still no Great Depression and that didn't move people in the way you are wishing for. So the theory here seems implausible and mostly just leads to a lot of suffering. And that ain't even touching on the question of which way people jump in reaction to these kind of things.
Not being into accelerationism is not defeatism. It only looks that way if your ideology allows exclusively for revolution or nothing.
Speaking from personal experience, having come of age with the recession and feeling the impact of it extremely directly on my life while lacking the ability to do anything about it is exactly what motivates my activism today, I think you will find a very similar attitude brimming among American millennials, I think it is exactly where Sanders' base of support comes from. We never stopped being furious about it. If it happened again today I think it would be a tipping point for a lot of people.
The suffering happens regardless. I see nothing wrong in wanting widespread visibility for the injustice that has and is already happening under modern economic policy. It's not like I have the least impact on the market myself anyway.
It does not actually. That's why even you are wishing for more harm. Because the current level of harm just isn't enough for the reaction you think will happen.
There's a pretty big difference between the 08 recession and the stock market plummet right now. The former actually involved the market not functioning properly and capital not moving around, creating a liquidity trap that kept any kind of growth at the firm level from happening. This market crash -- if it is a crash -- is entirely the result of supply chain shocks. It's nothing more than an indicator of coming pain caused by covid-19. We'll see if it's actually warranted next Friday when the new job numbers come out.
Oh sure, but it's more that any lessons gleaned from 2008 have been forgotten in the roles that are most directly impacted. The 23 year old at Goldman fresh out of college the year before the crash is now a 35 year old in middle management and doesn't have to care.
My post was more in response to the whole stuff about the 08 recession and the evils of the stock market. There aren't any evils in this stock market, it's just reacting to COVID
I'm completely unconcerned with who gets blamed for what by the various propaganda outlets, if everyone didn't get blamed for everything they wouldn't be doing their jobs.
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
Don't worry, I'm not relying on the people in charge to do anything themselves. The people just need a little push.
No, see, that's the funny part. Because they don't just need a little push and we've had ample opportunity to see that over the years.
What is different between today and 2008? Sanders' and Warrens' popularity isn't a fucking accident. What do you think Occupy Wallstreet turns into with an organized leftist ground game? I am fucking sick of this smarmy defeatist bullshit. Fucking do something.
Sanders support, just as an easy example, is heavily age-based. That kind of thing strongly suggests there's something different at work here then just 2008 considering how many people would have been like tweens for the 2008 recession. Plus there's been longer running trends on these issues then the last decade anyway.
And as bad as the Great Recession was, it was still no Great Depression and that didn't move people in the way you are wishing for. So the theory here seems implausible and mostly just leads to a lot of suffering. And that ain't even touching on the question of which way people jump in reaction to these kind of things.
Not being into accelerationism is not defeatism. It only looks that way if your ideology allows exclusively for revolution or nothing.
Speaking from personal experience, having come of age with the recession and feeling the impact of it extremely directly on my life while lacking the ability to do anything about it is exactly what motivates my activism today, I think you will find a very similar attitude brimming among American millennials, I think it is exactly where Sanders' base of support comes from. We never stopped being furious about it. If it happened again today I think it would be a tipping point for a lot of people.
The suffering happens regardless. I see nothing wrong in wanting widespread visibility for the injustice that has and is already happening under modern economic policy. It's not like I have the least impact on the market myself anyway.
It does not actually. That's why even you are wishing for more harm. Because the current level of harm just isn't enough for the reaction you think will happen.
I'm not entertaining your fucking vanity for a second longer shryke, go fuck yourself.
I'm curious what the expectation is for people calling on the Fed to do something. Short-run gains before the supply shock gets worse and really starts to hit? Interest rates and tax cuts don't help people quarantined or firms not having enough employees to stock shelves.
Posts
At least, that's now how property values (the taxable amount) are calculated where I'm at.
That value comes from what other people sold their homes at, or if it's a new house, what the contractor's consultant says it is. So if no one is selling, the market and tax value falls. This has been causing problems in multiple ways in cities like Detroit and my own, KC. For KC the problem is that now the downtown area has been regaining population, people are settling down in formerly run down neighborhoods (that is, gentrification) residents are bristling at the increased property tax values. It's not the current and older residents are upset at one another, from all indications neighbors are getting along just fine. It's that the tax value formulation is starting to push out long term residents due to a few sales increasing the neighborhood value. Those that are moving in, by all accounts, aren't flippers or seeking investments; They are first time buyers and families looking for decently priced housing.
I don't know, I think the retail market is pretty spooked, Monday could be fun.
Futures are green for now but who knows what happens over the weekend? If we get more bad sounding coronavirus headlines maybe things turn south again by Monday.
I'll have to dig up the article by Powell was apparently before Congress either earlier this week or towards the end of last week and he had to push back against republican assertions that the social safety net was the reason so many people weren't seeking jobs. He almost got it right when he told them the real cause. He cited lack of education opportunities, though I do think he did mention some of that was on employers being unwilling to pay for training. Sadly he didn't also hit them for the fact that companies are really fucking cheap and looking for ways to fuck their employees.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
From the COVID thread:
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
...they literally only have one policy response for anything.
Obama was blamed for not fixing things immediately through blood magic or w/e. Maybe he was years later as Bush was stuffed down the memory hole but not in 07/08.
I'd be fine with the crash being blamed on a Democratic President since it means we elected a Democratic President.
Obama was blamed for 9/11 in some circles.
I wouldn't put too much confidence in them not blaming the current drop on Obama.
The propoganda apparatus of the right, and it's platform enablers, is just so fucking bad at the moment. It's a testament to the incompetence, corruption and idiocy of this current Administration, that this is even a close race at this point. I think you put any bland chucklefuck that doesn't immediately engender revulsion (sorry, Ted) or pity (sorry, Marco), and I don't think Democrats have a chance this year.
A Democratic president will be blamed for everything anyways: The economy, the weather, gas prices, current pop culture trends, any lego piece a conservative steps on in the night, etc.
Voters blamed Obama for things that happened in 2008 - when he wasn't President -in 2010.
In 2008 they blamed the living fuck out of Bush.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
It's pretty widely believed that a big part of why Obama won was the financial crisis, though. The translation into votes is what matters.
But honestly I don't particularly care whether it bolsters Dem chances in November, I want the market to crash because it is an immoral system propped up by immoral and short-sighted actions, and the quicker the harm becomes evident the quicker we do something to address it.
This is one of the funnier things I've read on the forums for a bit. Bravo.
Don't worry, I'm not relying on the people in charge to do anything themselves. The people just need a little push.
Retirees and soon to be retirees shouldn't have this much exposure to equities.
Operative word shouldn't. A huge portion of people are retiring with debt these days.
No, see, that's the funny part. Because they don't just need a little push and we've had ample opportunity to see that over the years.
What is different between today and 2008? Sanders' and Warrens' popularity isn't a fucking accident. What do you think Occupy Wallstreet turns into with an organized leftist ground game? I am fucking sick of this smarmy defeatist bullshit. Fucking do something.
Am I pushing accelerationist bullshit? The market is fucking collapsing on its own, we didn't have to accelerate shit. It's just dropping the facade.
Not sure that "collapsing" is a good description of what's happening right now - the Dow's still well above where it was in Dec 2018.
It's not good, and things obviously might get worse yet, but this isn't an economic apocalypse.
Yeah, we'll have to see what happens next week, but this isn't even a bear market yet. Nor is it the first Correction under Trump. Hell, there was one in February 2018. We are definitely closer to a Recession today than at the beginning of the expansion, and COVID is certainly the kind of exogenous shock that could well tip us into one, but... that's what business cycles do. They cycle. And respond to outside events. Typically in ways that suck for the typical person. Which is why unregulated capitalism is a horror show that needs to be regulated.
Sanders support, just as an easy example, is heavily age-based. That kind of thing strongly suggests there's something different at work here then just 2008 considering how many people would have been like tweens for the 2008 recession. Plus there's been longer running trends on these issues then the last decade anyway.
And as bad as the Great Recession was, it was still no Great Depression and that didn't move people in the way you are wishing for. So the theory here seems implausible and mostly just leads to a lot of suffering. And that ain't even touching on the question of which way people jump in reaction to these kind of things.
Not being into accelerationism is not defeatism. It only looks that way if your ideology allows exclusively for revolution or nothing.
I saw some recent articles from bull investors saying that the market isn't "functioning correctly" and it makes me scream. This is a perfect example of the stock market actually operating correctly: when you have an exogenous supply shock value is SUPPOSED to go down! That's what happens when the physical economy can't meet expectations!
Speaking from personal experience, having come of age with the recession and feeling the impact of it extremely directly on my life while lacking the ability to do anything about it is exactly what motivates my activism today, I think you will find a very similar attitude brimming among American millennials, I think it is exactly where Sanders' base of support comes from. We never stopped being furious about it. If it happened again today I think it would be a tipping point for a lot of people.
The suffering happens regardless. I see nothing wrong in wanting widespread visibility for the injustice that has and is already happening under modern economic policy. It's not like I have the least impact on the market myself anyway.
The stock market reflects the outlook of the investor class.
Reminds me of the fact that, for the most part, working the trading desk is a young person's gig, and intentionally burnout based so it's either up or out. There are some old hands, but most traders today have literally never experienced a rate environment that wasn't accommodating, or a contraction. They just literally don't know how to operate with it because it's been over a decade since that reality existed.
Oh sure, but it's more that any lessons gleaned from 2008 have been forgotten in the roles that are most directly impacted. The 23 year old at Goldman fresh out of college the year before the crash is now a 35 year old in middle management and doesn't have to care.
It does not actually. That's why even you are wishing for more harm. Because the current level of harm just isn't enough for the reaction you think will happen.
My post was more in response to the whole stuff about the 08 recession and the evils of the stock market. There aren't any evils in this stock market, it's just reacting to COVID
I'm not entertaining your fucking vanity for a second longer shryke, go fuck yourself.
I'm curious what the expectation is for people calling on the Fed to do something. Short-run gains before the supply shock gets worse and really starts to hit? Interest rates and tax cuts don't help people quarantined or firms not having enough employees to stock shelves.