Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, [Movie]

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Kruite wrote: »
    Jurassic Park has a good short lived chase scene;

    Ian Malcolm: "Must go faster" and "Do you think they'll have that on the tour?"

    I seem to remember "Must go faster" coming up in Independence Day as well and always wondered if that was a purposeful Jurassic Park reference.

    I think that might be a Jeff Goldblum thing than any JP reference.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
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  • CristovalCristoval Registered User regular
    I'll keep beating the drum of Apocalypto in that it's a Mexican version of Fury Road except on foot.

    Khepra
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    I think I'm pretty alone in this opinion, but I hate chase scenes. A foot chase is fine, but shit do I hate car chases. I don't know if it's the film language used, but I don't feel anything but ambivalent about the action on screen. The exceptions being scenes where the actors are out and visible, like Morpheus on the semi trailer, or Doc Brown and Clara Clayton heading towards old Eastwood Ravine. I realized I had this disconnect when I first saw Bourne and he's driving on the stairs and I could not wait for it to be over.

    Part of it is that a car chase is almost never the end of things. They exist as spectacle, but the climax usually happens afterwards. You know they will crash, the bad guy will limp into the construction site, and he'll get punched up there to close out the story. And really, as spectacle, I don't care what a car does.

    You own a car?

    by that I mean, most Americans, at least, have a deep personal connection to driving. To the freedom and power that come with driving, to a sense of identity associated with their cars and with having the ability to drive.

    like, I could see someone who doesn't have that connection giving zero fucks about car chases pretty easily.

    which isn't a criticism or anything, just a sort of... driving a car faster than you should is something that resonates with a lot of people. It's as much of a power fantasy as beating the hell out of a baddy.

    Its hard to explain how liberating and mentally calming it was to open up a 3.6 liter V6 on some back country roads at the end of the first month of quarantine. There is nothing like pressing the accelerator to the floor, hearing that ungodly roar from the air intake and just ACCELERATING. And this is from a non performance car....

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Bullitt was the film that showed me the importance of tight editing to make a car chase feel visceral.

    I can appreciate on an abstract level that I am watching very talented people do difficult things in cars. But so much of the editing during The Chase consists of a stationary camera showing cars go around a curve, or a steady tracking shot, or just "he is a car going over a big hill" and it's just tedious for me.

    I'm watching impressive things shot in a way that makes them feel pedestrian. It very much felt like watching a Formula One race, which is ALSO full of impressive driving that is boring as piss to watch.

    Contrast that with something like Baby Driver, which has impressive car stunts with a great soundtrack and kinetic filming and smart editing that makes everything look frenetic and high-stakes beyond just being a bunch of impressive stunt work.

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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Cristoval wrote: »
    I'll keep beating the drum of Apocalypto in that it's a Mexican version of Fury Road except on foot.

    Or is Fury Road the Australian version of Apocalypto?

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  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Cristoval wrote: »
    I'll keep beating the drum of Apocalypto in that it's a Mexican version of Fury Road except on foot.

    Or is Fury Road the Australian version of Apocalypto?

    Or is Australia the Fury Road version of Mexico?

    Does anyone know a cartographer!?

    There is a mystery afoot!

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    I think I'm pretty alone in this opinion, but I hate chase scenes. A foot chase is fine, but shit do I hate car chases. I don't know if it's the film language used, but I don't feel anything but ambivalent about the action on screen. The exceptions being scenes where the actors are out and visible, like Morpheus on the semi trailer, or Doc Brown and Clara Clayton heading towards old Eastwood Ravine. I realized I had this disconnect when I first saw Bourne and he's driving on the stairs and I could not wait for it to be over.

    Part of it is that a car chase is almost never the end of things. They exist as spectacle, but the climax usually happens afterwards. You know they will crash, the bad guy will limp into the construction site, and he'll get punched up there to close out the story. And really, as spectacle, I don't care what a car does.

    You own a car?

    by that I mean, most Americans, at least, have a deep personal connection to driving. To the freedom and power that come with driving, to a sense of identity associated with their cars and with having the ability to drive.

    like, I could see someone who doesn't have that connection giving zero fucks about car chases pretty easily.

    which isn't a criticism or anything, just a sort of... driving a car faster than you should is something that resonates with a lot of people. It's as much of a power fantasy as beating the hell out of a baddy.

    I hate having to own a car. It's constant maintenance and a drain on money. I find no freedom in it. It's a burden forced upon me by need. I would love public transit be easily usable and cheap. Or live in a country where long distance travel is unnecessary to have a job and get food.

    The only car movie I've ever liked was Herbie the Love Bug as a kid and only because it was magic, sentient car.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
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  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    I watched the Blues Brothers scene to refresh my memory and I'm going to declare it the exception that proves the rule. It's not 15 quick cut shots of a dude stepping on the clutch, shifting gears, and engine noise. It's almost all exterior shots of mayhem and people. And it's not really meant to be rad, it's all a joke. Cops are driving into kiosks on purpose, it's all hysterical, never macho cool.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Which car chase looses the same hubcap like 3 tines?

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  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    I do miss 70's car chases, the absolute boats they were driving. Watching someone put a 20 foot land yacht in a power slide through an intersection was always a thing of beauty. 4000 pounds of crumple zone-lacking Buick making 200 horsepower if they're lucky going off a pipe ramp just can't be beat.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Which car chase looses the same hubcap like 3 tines?

    Bulleit

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  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    Baby Driver is a really strange movie for me because everyone seems to like it, if not outright love it, and I found it to just be...mediocre? It's like it hits a blind spot in my film taste buds or something. (I get extra points for mixing metaphors, right?)

    The gimmick is really cool for about 5 minutes and then it just wears thin for the rest of the runtime.
    I watched the Blues Brothers scene to refresh my memory and I'm going to declare it the exception that proves the rule. It's not 15 quick cut shots of a dude stepping on the clutch, shifting gears, and engine noise. It's almost all exterior shots of mayhem and people. And it's not really meant to be rad, it's all a joke. Cops are driving into kiosks on purpose, it's all hysterical, never macho cool.

    My favorite part of the Blues Brothers car chase is when the Illinois Nazis’ car is suddenly and inexplicably falling through the Chicago skyline as if it drove off the roof of the Sears Tower or something

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
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  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    Baby Driver is a really strange movie for me because everyone seems to like it, if not outright love it, and I found it to just be...mediocre? It's like it hits a blind spot in my film taste buds or something. (I get extra points for mixing metaphors, right?)

    The gimmick is really cool for about 5 minutes and then it just wears thin for the rest of the runtime.
    I watched the Blues Brothers scene to refresh my memory and I'm going to declare it the exception that proves the rule. It's not 15 quick cut shots of a dude stepping on the clutch, shifting gears, and engine noise. It's almost all exterior shots of mayhem and people. And it's not really meant to be rad, it's all a joke. Cops are driving into kiosks on purpose, it's all hysterical, never macho cool.

    My favorite part of the Blues Brothers car chase is when the Illinois Nazis’ car is suddenly and inexplicably falling through the Chicago skyline as if it drove off the roof of the Sears Tower or something

    My favorite is that directly after it lands, the blues brothers fly over its crater because somehow they’ve driven down there already

    C8Ft8GE.jpg
    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    best movie score ever?

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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    I love Charlize. She is amazing.

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  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    I can't get myself to care about car chases at all, they do absolutely nothing for me unless something other than chasing is happening.

    Foot chases are way more interesting in general, but can end up in the same 'I stopped caring about this half the scene back' place.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Grislo wrote: »
    Re: foot chases, there are some good potential candidates in horror.

    It Follows had a bunch of great foot chases.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    I really liked the car scenes in Ronin.

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  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    It’s been mentioned already but Apocalypto is a great chase revenge movie. The first half of the movie is pretty much setup while the second half is a chase scene while the protagonist gets revenge on his pursuers.


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  • KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    I mean the obvious best car chase movie is Fury Road, dunno about foot chases. MI has been great for chase sequences in general.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    The Ninja Turtles movies had some good Foot chases

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  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    edited August 1
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Bullitt was the film that showed me the importance of tight editing to make a car chase feel visceral.

    I can appreciate on an abstract level that I am watching very talented people do difficult things in cars. But so much of the editing during The Chase consists of a stationary camera showing cars go around a curve, or a steady tracking shot, or just "he is a car going over a big hill" and it's just tedious for me.

    I'm watching impressive things shot in a way that makes them feel pedestrian. It very much felt like watching a Formula One race, which is ALSO full of impressive driving that is boring as piss to watch.

    Contrast that with something like Baby Driver, which has impressive car stunts with a great soundtrack and kinetic filming and smart editing that makes everything look frenetic and high-stakes beyond just being a bunch of impressive stunt work.

    But you do need both skill in the camera work/editing and skill in the stunts. Far too many modern movies use bad frantic camera work, shaky cam, and choppy editing that serves to conceal more than it shows. And the more of that there is, the worse everything looks.

    For me, what makes a great car chase is the same things that make a great fight scene. Give me a wide enough shot and hold those shots long enough that I can see how the characters are interacting, appreciate the physical skill and choreography on display, and get a feel for the location and movement around the environment. I don't need a flat static shot, but don't give me 37 cuts of a thrown punch, a cut to a disconnected reverse shot of a punch landing, cut to a close-up of an angry face, etc, repeat forever. It just exposes the fact you never really filmed a "fight" in the first place, just a series of disjointed actions that the poor editor had to splice together into something resembling a scene.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    Raising Arizona has a chase that swaps from foot to vehicle and back again.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    I really liked the car scenes in Ronin.

    I just love the mamet dialogue in the movie, much like the chases, its brutal and to the point. And hilariously had Hereford have to mention they don't even have a boat house.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • Stabbity StyleStabbity Style Warning: Mothership Reporting Kennewick, WARegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Raising Arizona has a chase that swaps from foot to vehicle and back again.

    Also has a great song too.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    I really liked the car scenes in Ronin.

    One of the reason that the car scenes in Ronin are so good is because so much of the movie revolves around the car as an extension of the safe house and the planning point. The car is your egress point from whatever thing you're doing and excuse to be wherever it is you are. It is always close by even in otherwise mundane situations. As the movie moves forward, the cars, which start out as more or less bastions of safety, become more and more perilous. First being used as a method to execute the assaults and then being traps that the agents are forced into. This mimics the progression of the Ronin(both of the allegory and of the characters on the screen). The statelessness is first empowering(you get to go have your revenge/do your thing/make your money) and then suffocating(you're gonna die, one way or another, and you won't even really know if you accomplished anything).

    That the two main characters don't actually die is not necessarily a refutation of this theme, as one of them isn't actually a Ronin. And, of course, the one that is pays the bill

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »

    At the beginning of this video, I was very confused how her hair clippers were making that sound.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I really liked the car scenes in Ronin.

    One of the reason that the car scenes in Ronin are so good is because so much of the movie revolves around the car as an extension of the safe house and the planning point. The car is your egress point from whatever thing you're doing and excuse to be wherever it is you are. It is always close by even in otherwise mundane situations. As the movie moves forward, the cars, which start out as more or less bastions of safety, become more and more perilous. First being used as a method to execute the assaults and then being traps that the agents are forced into. This mimics the progression of the Ronin(both of the allegory and of the characters on the screen). The statelessness is first empowering(you get to go have your revenge/do your thing/make your money) and then suffocating(you're gonna die, one way or another, and you won't even really know if you accomplished anything).

    That the two main characters don't actually die is not necessarily a refutation of this theme, as one of them isn't actually a Ronin. And, of course, the one that is pays the bill

    @Goumindong Thank you for giving me an excuse to watch Ronin again today with a new lens. I appreciate it. This will probably be the 6th or 7th time I will watch it. It’s been on my top 10 all-time movies list for a very long time now. I never actually caught on to what you are taking about here; so, honestly, thank you.

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    It helps that I’m playing Ghosts of Tsushima which is basically the same thing as Ronin except that they have nothing to do with each other and are completely different in completely different locales and time periods and are basically completely unalike. But the word ronin is in it so yeah!

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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent The World on This SideRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I really liked the car scenes in Ronin.

    One of the reason that the car scenes in Ronin are so good is because so much of the movie revolves around the car as an extension of the safe house and the planning point. The car is your egress point from whatever thing you're doing and excuse to be wherever it is you are. It is always close by even in otherwise mundane situations. As the movie moves forward, the cars, which start out as more or less bastions of safety, become more and more perilous. First being used as a method to execute the assaults and then being traps that the agents are forced into. This mimics the progression of the Ronin(both of the allegory and of the characters on the screen). The statelessness is first empowering(you get to go have your revenge/do your thing/make your money) and then suffocating(you're gonna die, one way or another, and you won't even really know if you accomplished anything).

    That the two main characters don't actually die is not necessarily a refutation of this theme, as one of them isn't actually a Ronin. And, of course, the one that is pays the bill

    I also enjoy that most of them have no music. The engines are the score.

    I believe the commentary stated that they were done at slow speeds and sped up in post, since they really are driving in the wrong direction in a real tunnel.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I really liked the car scenes in Ronin.

    One of the reason that the car scenes in Ronin are so good is because so much of the movie revolves around the car as an extension of the safe house and the planning point. The car is your egress point from whatever thing you're doing and excuse to be wherever it is you are. It is always close by even in otherwise mundane situations. As the movie moves forward, the cars, which start out as more or less bastions of safety, become more and more perilous. First being used as a method to execute the assaults and then being traps that the agents are forced into. This mimics the progression of the Ronin(both of the allegory and of the characters on the screen). The statelessness is first empowering(you get to go have your revenge/do your thing/make your money) and then suffocating(you're gonna die, one way or another, and you won't even really know if you accomplished anything).

    That the two main characters don't actually die is not necessarily a refutation of this theme, as one of them isn't actually a Ronin. And, of course, the one that is pays the bill

    I also enjoy that most of them have no music. The engines are the score.

    I believe the commentary stated that they were done at slow speeds and sped up in post, since they really are driving in the wrong direction in a real tunnel.

    I don't know if Deniro is the one driving, but his face in those scenes look like he's concentrating super hard, so kudos to either the stunt work or the acting.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    edited August 2
    I think he was mostly shitting himself. But he's method so it lends authenticity. :biggrin:

    Big interview with the stunt driver here:

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  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    I’m watching Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. I’ve never watched silent movies so it’s interesting the different shots and editing it required, that wouldn’t fly at all today.

    Also it’s never been more obvious that a director has seen a particular film than this and Tim Burton

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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
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  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Drez wrote: »
    I really liked the car scenes in Ronin.

    One of the reason that the car scenes in Ronin are so good is because so much of the movie revolves around the car as an extension of the safe house and the planning point. The car is your egress point from whatever thing you're doing and excuse to be wherever it is you are. It is always close by even in otherwise mundane situations. As the movie moves forward, the cars, which start out as more or less bastions of safety, become more and more perilous. First being used as a method to execute the assaults and then being traps that the agents are forced into. This mimics the progression of the Ronin(both of the allegory and of the characters on the screen). The statelessness is first empowering(you get to go have your revenge/do your thing/make your money) and then suffocating(you're gonna die, one way or another, and you won't even really know if you accomplished anything).

    That the two main characters don't actually die is not necessarily a refutation of this theme, as one of them isn't actually a Ronin. And, of course, the one that is pays the bill

    I also enjoy that most of them have no music. The engines are the score.

    I believe the commentary stated that they were done at slow speeds and sped up in post, since they really are driving in the wrong direction in a real tunnel.

    I don't know if Deniro is the one driving, but his face in those scenes look like he's concentrating super hard, so kudos to either the stunt work or the acting.

    They used right-hand drive cars, with a left-hand fake wheel tied in to the real one. So Deniro just had to hold on to it basically while the stunt driver drove. The actor who played Larry did almost all his own driving, though.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    I’m watching Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. I’ve never watched silent movies so it’s interesting the different shots and editing it required, that wouldn’t fly at all today.

    Also it’s never been more obvious that a director has seen a particular film than this and Tim Burton

    It is interesting how much context affects how acceptable some techniques are, to me. Like I love the painted-on directional lighting in the sets for Cabinet of Dr Caligari, but I can't imagine it panning out at all in a modern movie, even one that was going for a particular style. It would be a hard sell.

  • y2jake215y2jake215 certified Flat Birther theorist the Last Good Boy onlineRegistered User regular
    y2jake215 wrote: »
    I’m watching Cabinet of Dr. Caligari. I’ve never watched silent movies so it’s interesting the different shots and editing it required, that wouldn’t fly at all today.

    Also it’s never been more obvious that a director has seen a particular film than this and Tim Burton

    It is interesting how much context affects how acceptable some techniques are, to me. Like I love the painted-on directional lighting in the sets for Cabinet of Dr Caligari, but I can't imagine it panning out at all in a modern movie, even one that was going for a particular style. It would be a hard sell.

    One I’m hyper-aware of in this is the use of masks:

    83mn7ma45m5a.jpeg

    (Having a hard time finding a shot where the effect is more obvious)

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    maybe i'm streaming terrible dj right now if i am its here
  • Johnny ChopsockyJohnny Chopsocky Scootaloo! We have to cook! Grillin' HaysenburgersRegistered User regular
    The Raid 2, alongside having one of my favorite car chase scenes of the last 10 years, also contains this behind the scenes tidbit that I absolutely adore.

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  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Wait how did they oh my god they're dressed as the chair

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Seriously, what a great solution. Nowadays they'll just assume they will green screen the transition or do a fake cut of some kind. But the real solution is a guy dressed up like a chair.

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