[Star Wars] Take part in the least interesting arguments in this galaxy or any other.

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    Really unfortunate about Saw Gerrera leading the Isis insurgents in hindsight, whoops!

    The funny thing is that while it's pronounced Isis on the show, it's been spelled Iziz since it was first made up back in 1993. (I suspected, when I saw the spelling in TOR after they made Onderon a planet in the game, that the spelling was changed so they could say "Nope it's not Isis it's Iziz see" but it always was that way. Onderon is one of those Legends things that was saved from the Great Mouse Adjustment by having been adapted into Clone Wars, but more of it survived intact than I thought.)

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  • Havelock2.0Havelock2.0 Registered User regular
    wait did they really call his side of the fight that?

    that's worse than Jizz

    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Well. They came up with it in 1993. Long before ISIL was a thing

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    The problem with all the Tatooine in the ST is that they're there for the audience, not the characters. Luke hated the place and it holds a bunch of crappy memories like losing a bar fight, the charred corpses of his aunt, uncle, and a bunch of Jawas, fighting a Rancor, and almost being dumped into the Sarlac. Why would Luke see the twin sunsets as he's dying and why would that bring him peace? You'd think that he'd see wherever he had made his home during happier times or maybe a love interest, but since we know none of those details, we get Tatooine because it's what the audience will recognize.

    The RoS scene is even worse. Why would Rey go to live on Tatooine, why would she bring Leia's lightsabre there, why would she take Skywalker as her last name when Organa, Solo, Organa-Solo, and Palpatine would be better choices. Abrams and the nostalgia button.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    Literally his last word on the place is: "There's nothing to see. I used to live here, you know."
    Before that, as he was leaving the first time, most of his comments were to express doubt that he'd ever return (or want to).

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  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Hackerman Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Well. They came up with it in 1993. Long before ISIL was a thing

    The show came out a couple years before they made it big on the world stage too.

    But we were watching it and I was like "They're insurgents in where?!" 👀

  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Hackerman Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    edited May 22
    daveNYC wrote: »
    The problem with all the Tatooine in the ST is that they're there for the audience, not the characters. Luke hated the place and it holds a bunch of crappy memories like losing a bar fight, the charred corpses of his aunt, uncle, and a bunch of Jawas, fighting a Rancor, and almost being dumped into the Sarlac. Why would Luke see the twin sunsets as he's dying and why would that bring him peace? You'd think that he'd see wherever he had made his home during happier times or maybe a love interest, but since we know none of those details, we get Tatooine because it's what the audience will recognize.

    The RoS scene is even worse. Why would Rey go to live on Tatooine, why would she bring Leia's lightsabre there, why would she take Skywalker as her last name when Organa, Solo, Organa-Solo, and Palpatine would be better choices. Abrams and the nostalgia button.

    I don't think she went to live on Tatooine dude, she just left the sabers to rest there because it was Luke and his father's ancestral home and Alderaan is an asteroid field. And she took the name to continue their legacy, and Luke and Leia were the closest things to parents she'd ever had. There's a lot that I can be extremely critical of with that movie but that beat really hit for me.

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Rey calling herself a Skywalker is only bad part of that scene. Laying the sabers to rest at the remains of the Lars farm was perfectly OK.

    (Why the Lars farm was left untouched in 30 some years, I don't know. But that's not something I'll fuss about.)

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  • reVersereVerse Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Rey calling herself a Skywalker is only bad part of that scene. Laying the sabers to rest at the remains of the Lars farm was perfectly OK.

    (Why the Lars farm was left untouched in 30 some years, I don't know. But that's not something I'll fuss about.)

    There's some concept art for an unfilmed scene where she arrives at the farmstead and Tusken raiders are looting the place/living there.

    When I first heard of that, I thought a really funny way to end the movie would've been for Rey, upon encountering the Tuskens, to whip out her new lightsaber and *gasp* it's reeeeeeeed!

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    I dont think there is much evidence that Luke hated Tatooine. But he doesnt see tatooine because he loved it so much. He sees tatooine because his journey is complete.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    I dont think there is much evidence that Luke hated Tatooine. But he doesnt see tatooine because he loved it so much. He sees tatooine because his journey is complete.

    "Well, if there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from."

    - L. Skywalker

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    I dont think there is much evidence that Luke hated Tatooine. But he doesnt see tatooine because he loved it so much. He sees tatooine because his journey is complete.

    "Well, if there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from."

    - L. Skywalker

    And? A Kid wants to leave his home and go on an adventure. Does not mean he hates his home and still does not negate the actual reason for rememberance... the adventure

    Goumindong on
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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Every young person wants to leave home, and every old person wants to go home again.

    Its a normal human feeling, I think.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    I dont think there is much evidence that Luke hated Tatooine. But he doesnt see tatooine because he loved it so much. He sees tatooine because his journey is complete.

    "Well, if there's a bright center to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from."

    - L. Skywalker

    And? A Kid wants to leave his home and go on an adventure. Does not mean he hates his home and still does not negate the actual reason for rememberance... the adventure

    Unfortunately only the PT has such a crude level of dialogue where the character just says what they're feeling. Though given the importance of bloodlines in the story, I think I could argue that Luke likely inherited Anakin's dislike of sand.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    How the hell is Luke like a father to Rey? He spends the majority of TLJ arguing with her and essentially wanting her to leave his island. Han Solo was a far warmer, far more supportive figure.

    In any event, her taking the Skywalker name feels cheap. It's another pointless addition, one made to spite the character development and trajectory that TLJ set up. There was a clear solution - having the Skywalker legacy end with Kylo, and Rey recognizing that her comrades are the family she so desperately craved. For extra bold flavor, have Poe and Finn become a couple.

    But, yeah, it's okay to have the Skywalker lineage end. Or, you could add to Luke's legend by calling any future light side Force users Skywalkers. Where it's a title, not a name. Regardless, there's better options than having her adopt herself into the family.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    I maybe would have had a completely different movie, but I actually think part way through the last film if there’d been a fight scene where Fin, Ben and Rey kept swapping laser swords, and Rey kept the red one for the rest of it that’d be neat.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    The problem with all the Tatooine in the ST is that they're there for the audience, not the characters. Luke hated the place and it holds a bunch of crappy memories like losing a bar fight, the charred corpses of his aunt, uncle, and a bunch of Jawas, fighting a Rancor, and almost being dumped into the Sarlac. Why would Luke see the twin sunsets as he's dying and why would that bring him peace? You'd think that he'd see wherever he had made his home during happier times or maybe a love interest, but since we know none of those details, we get Tatooine because it's what the audience will recognize.

    The RoS scene is even worse. Why would Rey go to live on Tatooine, why would she bring Leia's lightsabre there, why would she take Skywalker as her last name when Organa, Solo, Organa-Solo, and Palpatine would be better choices. Abrams and the nostalgia button.

    I don't think she went to live on Tatooine dude, she just left the sabers to rest there because it was Luke and his father's ancestral home and Alderaan is an asteroid field. And she took the name to continue their legacy, and Luke and Leia were the closest things to parents she'd ever had. There's a lot that I can be extremely critical of with that movie but that beat really hit for me.

    The title of the track on the score is A New Home, and traditionally Williams receives a copy of the script so he can better score the movie.

  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    It might have been nice to see that Rey spent the time after TLJ training some new people. Then a big fight with Rey and her new Jedi vs. Kylo and the Knights of Ren...

    I wonder if they had the last scene in mind when they came up with the title, or if they had the title first, and worked back from there.

  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    It’s a crying shame Ben’s Boys weren’t fleshed out, or at least given funky designs. Something like...

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
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    Look at these storm troopers that rolled in black paint and dirt.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Black on black on black on black

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    "It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black."

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  • AtomikaAtomika Nurse Amy says: “Wear the damn mask.”Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    “Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren”


    Who the fuck is Ren? Why should I care? Who are these assholes, anyway? What’s their deal? No? Nothing?

    Do they even have names other than, “random asshole with a stick” and “similar random asshole but wearing a cape?”

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    I was about to create a plausible backstory for them then realised someone else should have done that a long time ago.

    Yeah, they’re just randos.

    In fact Ben probably paid people to dress up so it looked like he had pals.

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  • davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    “Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren”


    Who the fuck is Ren? Why should I care? Who are these assholes, anyway? What’s their deal? No? Nothing?

    Do they even have names other than, “random asshole with a stick” and “similar random asshole but wearing a cape?”

    "Stimpy cheated! I wrote that poem!"

    -Ren

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  • ZavianZavian Senātus Populusque Rōmānus Registered User regular
    Atomika wrote: »
    “Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren”


    Who the fuck is Ren? Why should I care? Who are these assholes, anyway? What’s their deal? No? Nothing?

    Do they even have names other than, “random asshole with a stick” and “similar random asshole but wearing a cape?”

    It was in the tie in comics.

    And having read them, no, no one should care.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus premium Registered User regular
    Rian Johnson said he didn't use the Knights of Ren for the big TLJ fight scene because he looked at the materials on them and felt like they deserved a bit of characterization and exploration to them, not just having them all job a single fight.

    *looks at TROS then looks directly at the camera*

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  • ZavianZavian Senātus Populusque Rōmānus Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    “ In the latest issue, Ren (yes, Ren is a person), Ben Solo and the Knights are on Minemoon of Mimban hunting an artifact called the Mindsplinter. Solo witnesses his new mentor kill innocent miners despite the assurances he would release them after getting the information they needed. Soon after, two Jedi trainees who were friends with Ben ambush him. As one of his former classmates tries to convince Ben he can still change his mind and come back to the Jedi, Ren snaps his neck with the force. Ren tells Ben that Snoke was wrong about his potential and the two start an intense lightsaber fight - which ends with Ben thrusting a lightsaber through Ren's chest.

    By killing Ren, Ben has a choice. He could return to his path as a Jedi or finish what Ren started. He immediately encounters the other young Jedi, and proclaims that "I'm a murderer, remember?" as he lunges Ren's red lightsaber through her chest. The Knights of Ren see all this unfold and bow down to their new leader. Defeating Ren and killing the Jedi showed the Knights that Ben was the real deal and he now has their undivided loyalty. The comic ends with Ben forming his crossguard lightsaber and accepting his fate as Kylo Ren.”

    TLDR the knights of ren were always jobbers

    Zavian on
  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    If nothing else, it makes me want a story where a ragtag band of heroes are in a race against time with a ragtag band of villains, with a lot of crossover between their goals and views. Imagine if Ben and Hux had a Poe and Fin, a Chewie and BB8, and they stuck together for three movies.

    I maintain that if Fin and Rey had been given equal standing as the protagonist, and we followed Ben’s own journey as a third protagonist they could have really explored the themes they were circling.

    Rey can’t side with Ben as the single hero, but with Fin as another Force user (perhaps with all the subtler power, leaving Rey a ‘brute force’ user) we could at least play with it a little.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Seriously, it looks like they were designed by a five-year-old. All black, all masks, no details showing a personal history. Just get a child and asks them to draw scary people, and you get this.

    It fits with their personalities and backstories.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    euk49g2xbk7h.jpeg

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    Fun fact if you use a free filter app on your phone you can make their designs 20% better.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    I'm not sure if that backstory indicates that the concept is flawed or that at this point, no one cares.

    I'm leaning towards contractual obligations to tell the story.

  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    The true shame was them not becoming the Knights of Ben, if that’s the case.

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  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    If nothing else, it makes me want a story where a ragtag band of heroes are in a race against time with a ragtag band of villains, with a lot of crossover between their goals and views. Imagine if Ben and Hux had a Poe and Fin, a Chewie and BB8, and they stuck together for three movies.

    I can be down with this.

    What if RoS was a race between the heroes and the Knights of Ren for the Sith Wayfinder?

    What does it do? What does it lead to? Ehhh... Haven't worked that out.

    But a galactic treasure-hunt/race would have been fantastic.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Ben's Ten*

    Now accepting applications.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    If nothing else, it makes me want a story where a ragtag band of heroes are in a race against time with a ragtag band of villains, with a lot of crossover between their goals and views. Imagine if Ben and Hux had a Poe and Fin, a Chewie and BB8, and they stuck together for three movies.

    I can be down with this.

    What if RoS was a race between the heroes and the Knights of Ren for the Sith Wayfinder?

    What does it do? What does it lead to? Ehhh... Haven't worked that out.

    But a galactic treasure-hunt/race would have been fantastic.

    You know that nonsense fleet Grandad had... How about he was 4D chess enough to have the beginnings of a spare fleet being built outside known space, but he died before he could use it?

    For Ben it’s simply stopping the rebels from getting new ships, for them it’s arming themselves after TLJ.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    One more then I’m done. 25 seconds worth of effort.

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Ben's Ten*

    Now accepting applications.

    :whistle: It started when a Smuggler's Kid was trained by Skywalker... :whistle:

  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    The Knights of Ren should have been given a dazzling introduction of personality.

    Like the Ginyu Force.



    Although, if I am being honest, I judge most b-tier villain teams by the Ginyu Force.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    The true shame was them not becoming the Knights of Ben, if that’s the case.

    The Knights still had Too much Ren merch left to sell

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