RoS was fine. It was a KJA novel make into a live action film. And yes, I had general problems with some TLJ plot points which I won't repeat here. I genuinely enjoyed 2/3rds of RoS it even if another 1/3 was poor.
Ben Solo, Rey, KOTOR space/ship boarding battle, Leia training Rey, and force storms + Sith temple/cultists fight made the film for me.
After thinking on it some, I think I'm more fond of the PT than the ST for these reasons:
1) The quality curve went upwards rather than downwards
2) Where the curve bottomed out/started for the PT was higher than where it bottomed out/ended for the ST
3) Fucking up a prequel is less consequential than fucking up a sequel is, as the latter ruins future story prospects. Where does the series go from here?
4) This is unfair to the ST since there hasn't been enough time for something similar to happen to it, but the Clone Wars cartoon does a lot of heavy lifting to rehabilitate the PT to some degree.
+6
Options
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I unequivocally "enjoy" the PT more than the ST, in that I can at least tolerate the PT being on. The PT was executed horribly but at least has a story. The ST is a big pile of expensive disjointed trash that doesn't know what the fuck it is. The ST high point was that year or so where it seemed like the main character was completely unrelated to anybody, and the low point was her being related to Palpatine instead. The latter was a rock-bottom low for the franchise, with the margin of quality between that and the high point being incredibly narrow.
+4
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I have started watching the PT recently and it seems to be infinitely more watchable than RoS ever was. RoS was just so unwatchable that even Phantom Menance and Attack of the Clones have more merit.
No matter what PM does to Star Wars, it will ALWAYS have that incredible lightsaber battle. RoS is just irredeemable.
I know we SW fans always have Stockholm syndrome about whatever the newest "unforgivable" Star Wars film is, but there is nothing that can convince me that peak awful in Star Wars wasn't Attack of the Clones. Rey and Ben had, actual chemistry on screen. Even if you thought the story was dumb.
The PT at least gave rise to both sets of Clone Wars cartoons, both of which I enjoyed quite a bit and would rank ahead of numerous movies in my Star Wars media rankings. The ST...while it had some interesting characters and planets and moments, as a setting for further stories it feels completely sterile. You can't really salvage it for any sort of immediate fourth trilogy set, and I've got no interest in watching other shows 'fill in the gaps' of the movies. It's like a radioactive plotline, you've just gotta bury it for a thousand years and cover it with warning markers.
+5
Options
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited November 2020
Edit: Never mind
Fencingsax on
0
Options
AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I really, really do not like TROS and it’s still magnitudes better than anything in the prequels. The prequels are irredeemably bad.
+4
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I know we SW fans always have Stockholm syndrome about whatever the newest "unforgivable" Star Wars film is, but there is nothing that can convince me that peak awful in Star Wars wasn't Attack of the Clones. Rey and Ben had, actual chemistry on screen. Even if you thought the story was dumb.
No they definitely didn't. None whatsoever. In fact, it was even grosser and weirder than the PT! Everything to do with that was ridiculously bad and should never have happened.
And Attack of the Clones at least has one of the best battle scenes in a Star Wars movie. Again, it has something going for it and then again it does have the... "I hate sand" speech. That it cannot ever be forgiven for. Rise of Skywalker has absolutely completely nothing. Nothing. It's all sand!
Edit: I cannot believe, ever, that I would actively be defending anything in the prequels. That's how bad RoS is for me.
Yeah, this chemistry thing gets repeated a lot and I don't see it. Rey and Finn had chemistry, you could see it every time they hugged. Kylo murdered his dad for experience points, and that's the least vile thing Rey knows about him. The only chemistry they had was having the same skin tone, which was enough for Disney, but not for me.
+7
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Yeah, this chemistry thing gets repeated a lot and I don't see it. Rey and Finn had chemistry, you could see it every time they hugged. Kylo murdered his dad for experience points, and that's the least vile thing Rey knows about him. The only chemistry they had was having the same skin tone, which was enough for Disney, but not for me.
Yeah, given the other two forced sudden romantic interests in RoS that was the main gross part to me. Also that Kathleen Kennedy apparently really pushed for it to be a thing, even if it made absolutely zero sense.
Rey and Ben had foe chemistry face/heel heat, that was it.
And say what you will, at least I didn't walk out of Attack of Clones and immediately have 3 fridge logic moments in rapid succession unlike with TLJ. Lucas with supervision still at least had a coherent plan through all 3 movies that even if they were presented bad, didn't feel slapdash and mostly came together in the end.
Matev on
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Hail Hydra
+1
Options
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
RoS put the Palpatine reveal speech in Fortnite. Between that and the opening crawl, it starts off bad and then keeps digging. Plus the ST doesn't have a coherent story it's trying to tell. PT: The fall of Anakin and the Republic. OT: Vader's redemption and the fall of the Empire. The ST doesn't have coherent story that it's trying to tell. All it has is events and spectacle. TLJ is the odd movie out here, it very much has a number of messages to convey, but it's hamstrung by having to build on having to build on a vacuous copy of ANH, never mind RoS going all 'fuck your plot points and character growth'.
The key thing for me is that I can come up with a number of ways to make the PT better while telling the same story. I have no idea how to do the same to the ST because there's no framework to build on. I've got ideas on how to make each movie better, casino planet, more tension in the space chase than just watching the fuel gauge, make us care about the planets that Starkiller Base destroyed, don't keep your three main characters isolated from each other for the first two movies, fire anyone who was remotely involved in what passes for humor in these movies; but that's not the same as improving the story the ST is trying to tell.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
There is a story in the ST about finding what's worthwhile in a broken legacy and carrying it forward while making it your own, but at least 2 of the three movies would need significant rewrites to make it work, and good luck getting the room to agree on which 2 get rewritten. (Ok, let's not kid ourselves, TROS is one of them)
Matev on
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Hail Hydra
+4
Options
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Also back to the Clone Wars series, my lord this has so many good lightsaber fights in it. I'm having a hard time picking a favourite out of some of these.
Also back to the Clone Wars series, my lord this has so many good lightsaber fights in it. I'm having a hard time picking a favourite out of some of these.
For me, the potential that a an overarching plot has is lost when, scene to scene, the film doesn't engage me. Lucas' scene-to-scene filmmaking in the prequels is often bad and IMO much, much worse than it is in any of the sequels. Overall, in the moment I got more enjoyment out of all the sequels, RoS included, than I did out of the prequels (which doesn't mean that there weren't scenes that I already hated while watching them). A film can fall apart when I think about it afterwards, but I don't think I've ever had a film come together after watching it if there wasn't something there to keep me engaged while I was watching it.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
TROS scenemaking fell apart at latest when the speedjumping through hyperspace. That really set the tone for th rest of the movies as just a rapid succession of silly scene at ludicrous speed with lots of shouting.
Posts
The best lightsaber fight in all of Star Wars.
Ben Solo, Rey, KOTOR space/ship boarding battle, Leia training Rey, and force storms + Sith temple/cultists fight made the film for me.
1) The quality curve went upwards rather than downwards
2) Where the curve bottomed out/started for the PT was higher than where it bottomed out/ended for the ST
3) Fucking up a prequel is less consequential than fucking up a sequel is, as the latter ruins future story prospects. Where does the series go from here?
4) This is unfair to the ST since there hasn't been enough time for something similar to happen to it, but the Clone Wars cartoon does a lot of heavy lifting to rehabilitate the PT to some degree.
No matter what PM does to Star Wars, it will ALWAYS have that incredible lightsaber battle. RoS is just irredeemable.
Rise feels outright spiteful towards itself and the viewer
Well when life gives you lemons, kill off characters played by recently deceased actors and bring back long dead characters.
Come Overwatch with meeeee
No they definitely didn't. None whatsoever. In fact, it was even grosser and weirder than the PT! Everything to do with that was ridiculously bad and should never have happened.
And Attack of the Clones at least has one of the best battle scenes in a Star Wars movie. Again, it has something going for it and then again it does have the... "I hate sand" speech. That it cannot ever be forgiven for. Rise of Skywalker has absolutely completely nothing. Nothing. It's all sand!
Edit: I cannot believe, ever, that I would actively be defending anything in the prequels. That's how bad RoS is for me.
Yeah, given the other two forced sudden romantic interests in RoS that was the main gross part to me. Also that Kathleen Kennedy apparently really pushed for it to be a thing, even if it made absolutely zero sense.
And say what you will, at least I didn't walk out of Attack of Clones and immediately have 3 fridge logic moments in rapid succession unlike with TLJ. Lucas with supervision still at least had a coherent plan through all 3 movies that even if they were presented bad, didn't feel slapdash and mostly came together in the end.
The key thing for me is that I can come up with a number of ways to make the PT better while telling the same story. I have no idea how to do the same to the ST because there's no framework to build on. I've got ideas on how to make each movie better, casino planet, more tension in the space chase than just watching the fuel gauge, make us care about the planets that Starkiller Base destroyed, don't keep your three main characters isolated from each other for the first two movies, fire anyone who was remotely involved in what passes for humor in these movies; but that's not the same as improving the story the ST is trying to tell.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3