[Star Wars] There are two lights! abers.

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  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Disney has outright said that the only for-sure canon things are the films, some of the series, and I think some of the comics. Until the material from those gets put in an official film, show, or comic, it's no longer canon.

    It's not something the Great Nerd Council decided on, it's just... fact. Disney said what was canon, anything else can potentially be canon but is unrelated until it's actually made canon. So almost everything about Thrawn from the books is no longer canon, but Thrawn, having been in Rebels, is himself definitely canon at this point.

    Not quite. Disney's opinion has been that anything after the initial EU purge is canon now. That purge culled us down to the movies and TCW, but there's a ton of extra material now.

    Kamar on
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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    To be fair, it’s hard to separate auxiliary material from the OT with what we’ve all absorbed over the last 40+ years.

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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    shryke wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Why can't you include book or comic sources as evidence of something being established in-universe? I don't think one gets to pick and choose what is and isn't canon. There are no tiers of canon anymore. Its canon or it's not.

    You should not be able pick and choose your acceptable sources based on whether or not you've seen it. Or if you think books are not a legit source of information, or whatever. The holders of the IP says a source is canon, then one should accept the information it gives you as true. Even if it is from a comic book you've never read.

    Because you can't expect tie-in material to fill in the blanks for you. If you are watching a Star Wars movie, the movie (and the ones that came before it) should be providing the necessary context for what is going on. Like shit, the MCU did a franchise with like 20+ films and managed not to fuck that part up.

    I agree. And that's a fault of the movie(s) themselves, not of the Star Wars universe as a whole. Star Wars is a big huge thing now. Yes, the movies are what drives the mass of people the see them. But that same mass are not the ones participating in internet forums and having knock down arguments and discussions about the Star Wars IP. Especially these days when the IP is very much a multi-media effort. I'm not forgiving any shitty movie-,making choices for not telling the whole story. That irks me as much as you. I'm saying that if we are discussing the Star Wars universe, it should not be taboo from drawing from other canon sources than the movies.

    What prompted my comment was, seemingly, more and more posts along the lines of not counting the comics or if its not in the movies, it didn't happen and the like. I'm not quoting anyone or coming after one particular thing some poster said. Its more of a general comment. If nerds are gonna discuss, we should all be discussing from the same page. And that page should be, imo, "Canon".

    Disney has outright said that the only for-sure canon things are the films, some of the series, and I think some of the comics. Until the material from those gets put in an official film, show, or comic, it's no longer canon.

    It's not something the Great Nerd Council decided on, it's just... fact. Disney said what was canon, anything else can potentially be canon but is unrelated until it's actually made canon. So almost everything about Thrawn from the books is no longer canon, but Thrawn, having been in Rebels, is himself definitely canon at this point.

    But chatter in this thread is continuing as if the Great Nerd Council has decided. But there are many Councils in here. Disney has outright said, iirc, that the: PT, TCW (movie and cartoon) & OT are canon. AND that anything put out since Disney took over the IP is also canon. Movies. TV Shows. Novels. Comics. Video Games. All of it.

    (Clarification behind the spoiler)
    Wookiepedia says
    2014 reboot
    "The thing with legends is that parts of them are true."
    ―John Jackson Miller[src]
    On April 25, 2014, after a year of ownership by the Walt Disney Company, a StarWars.com press release confirmed that the films of the sequel trilogy would not adhere to the post–Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe,[11] with further comments from LucasBooks Senior Editor Jennifer Heddle confirming that the EU as a whole is no longer considered canon. The EU has been re-termed "Legends," with related publications remaining in print under that banner.

    Since then, the only previously published material still considered canon are the six original trilogy/prequel trilogy films, the Star Wars: The Clone Wars television series and film, and Part I of the short story Blade Squadron. Most material published after April 25—such as the Star Wars Rebels TV series along with all Marvel Star Wars comic books and novels beginning with A New Dawn—is also considered part of the new canon, on account of the creation of the Lucasfilm Story Group, which currently oversees continuity as a whole. Characters under the Legends banner are still available for use as needed, even if events concerning them are no longer canon.

    On September 29, 2018, Lucasfilm Story Group's Matt Martin revealed on his Twitter account that the canon tier system originally established by Leland Chee in the early 2000s is no longer used following the canon reboot.[12]

    Exceptions
    The following material, although released after April 25, 2014, is not considered canon:

    Star Wars: Legacy Volume 2 issues 15-18.
    Dark Horse Comics' Star Wars series issues 17-20.
    Star Wars: Rebel Heist comic miniseries.
    Comic strips published in Star Wars Comic UK #5-#13.
    Goodnight Darth Vader and its sequel Darth Vader and Friends.
    Star Wars: Imperial Handbook: A Commander's Guide, a 2014 reference book.
    Star Wars: Graphics, a 2016 reference book.
    The ongoing MMO Star Wars: The Old Republic and its expansions.
    Star Wars: The Old Republic-related short stories published online in the game's developer blog.
    Fantasy Flight Games's RPG supplements contain elements of both Canon and Legends topics.
    Star Wars 108: Forever Crimson, the hundred and eighth issue of the original Star Wars comic series published by Marvel.
    Quid wrote: »
    A piece of media should stand on its own.

    A show like The Rebels is great. The Mandalorian is also great. That they tie in to each other should be a bonus to those who watch both, not a necessity for someone who only watches one.

    Agreed. But what if someone only considers the movies to be one true source, and decries the very existence of a Mandalorian warrior culture just because nobody ever says the word "Mandalorian" in the PT or OT? Is that correct? I say no, and that its perfectly legit to point to Disney+ and say, "Look. Here is an entire show that proves that there is Mandalorian culture in this universe." and for someone to come back and say, "Nope. If it wasn't in the movies it didn't happen." is objectively wrong.

    Steelhawk on
    Doctor Detroit
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    Ah, we're talking about the shitty, shitty tendency of the ST to overlook enormous plot issues and then using books to "solve" the issues after the fact, not issues of canon.

    Yeah, if a movie needs outside material to stand any level of scrutiny, it's a shit movie. Nobody needed to read the LotR trilogy before seeing the movies for those movies to make sense, but they would've picked up on some extra things. That's because those were good movies. Same with the OT; we don't need a pile of auxiliary material for the films to be coherent, because those films already lay out what you need to know.

    No quite because while I agree with you in the main, that a movie should not need ancillary material to backstop it, I say that Star Wars is now bigger than just the Skywalker Saga movies and those other sources should be considered in discussions of what happens/ed in-universe.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    I'd like to be able to decanonize the entire ST (yes, even TLJ - while I appreciate the things Johnson wanted to say, I think he went about it in a way that was sometimes badly paced/executed, and disrespectful to the existing characters and setting; I'd prefer he'd used his own, rather than a numbered movie in a saga I've been following since 1977) and/or replace it with an IMO "better" one. But I don't get to make that call for anyone but myself. :?

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    Disney has outright said that the only for-sure canon things are the films, some of the series, and I think some of the comics. Until the material from those gets put in an official film, show, or comic, it's no longer canon.

    It's not something the Great Nerd Council decided on, it's just... fact. Disney said what was canon, anything else can potentially be canon but is unrelated until it's actually made canon. So almost everything about Thrawn from the books is no longer canon, but Thrawn, having been in Rebels, is himself definitely canon at this point.
    Disney has outright said that the only for-sure canon things are the films, some of the series, and I think some of the comics. Until the material from those gets put in an official film, show, or comic, it's no longer canon.

    It's not something the Great Nerd Council decided on, it's just... fact. Disney said what was canon, anything else can potentially be canon but is unrelated until it's actually made canon. So almost everything about Thrawn from the books is no longer canon, but Thrawn, having been in Rebels, is himself definitely canon at this point.

    You're mixing up the LFL canon rules and the Disney canon rules. What you said applied to LFL, which considered only the Clone Wars and a few other properties that came directly from George (Such as the Ewok films and possibly Splinter of the Mind's Eye) as canon.

    Disney rules are EVERYTHING that Disney makes is minimum broad-strokes canon.

    Doctor DetroitSteelhawk
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Why can't you include book or comic sources as evidence of something being established in-universe? I don't think one gets to pick and choose what is and isn't canon. There are no tiers of canon anymore. Its canon or it's not.

    You should not be able pick and choose your acceptable sources based on whether or not you've seen it. Or if you think books are not a legit source of information, or whatever. The holders of the IP says a source is canon, then one should accept the information it gives you as true. Even if it is from a comic book you've never read.

    Because you can't expect tie-in material to fill in the blanks for you. If you are watching a Star Wars movie, the movie (and the ones that came before it) should be providing the necessary context for what is going on. Like shit, the MCU did a franchise with like 20+ films and managed not to fuck that part up.

    I agree. And that's a fault of the movie(s) themselves, not of the Star Wars universe as a whole. Star Wars is a big huge thing now. Yes, the movies are what drives the mass of people the see them. But that same mass are not the ones participating in internet forums and having knock down arguments and discussions about the Star Wars IP. Especially these days when the IP is very much a multi-media effort. I'm not forgiving any shitty movie-,making choices for not telling the whole story. That irks me as much as you. I'm saying that if we are discussing the Star Wars universe, it should not be taboo from drawing from other canon sources than the movies.

    What prompted my comment was, seemingly, more and more posts along the lines of not counting the comics or if its not in the movies, it didn't happen and the like. I'm not quoting anyone or coming after one particular thing some poster said. Its more of a general comment. If nerds are gonna discuss, we should all be discussing from the same page. And that page should be, imo, "Canon".

    But that's not what people are complaining about. People are dismissing those other sources because they aren't the movie and the movie is where the prophecy gets mentioned but never actually explained in any way whatsoever. Which is what people are commenting on.

    And of course, beyond that specific issues, there's also the fact that the "canon" is not actually consistent. Or frequently even clear. Even after Disney took over and that's in large part because even the movies aren't really all that consistent.

    ShadowenQuid
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Ah, we're talking about the shitty, shitty tendency of the ST to overlook enormous plot issues and then using books to "solve" the issues after the fact, not issues of canon.

    Yeah, if a movie needs outside material to stand any level of scrutiny, it's a shit movie. Nobody needed to read the LotR trilogy before seeing the movies for those movies to make sense, but they would've picked up on some extra things. That's because those were good movies. Same with the OT; we don't need a pile of auxiliary material for the films to be coherent, because those films already lay out what you need to know.

    No quite because while I agree with you in the main, that a movie should not need ancillary material to backstop it, I say that Star Wars is now bigger than just the Skywalker Saga movies and those other sources should be considered in discussions of what happens/ed in-universe.

    It's still a movie series with tie-ins, at the end of the day.

    I mean shit, even Rogue One couldn't pull the kind of numbers the mainline movies did.

    shryke on
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    Why can't you include book or comic sources as evidence of something being established in-universe? I don't think one gets to pick and choose what is and isn't canon. There are no tiers of canon anymore. Its canon or it's not.

    You should not be able pick and choose your acceptable sources based on whether or not you've seen it. Or if you think books are not a legit source of information, or whatever. The holders of the IP says a source is canon, then one should accept the information it gives you as true. Even if it is from a comic book you've never read.

    Because you can't expect tie-in material to fill in the blanks for you. If you are watching a Star Wars movie, the movie (and the ones that came before it) should be providing the necessary context for what is going on. Like shit, the MCU did a franchise with like 20+ films and managed not to fuck that part up.

    I agree. And that's a fault of the movie(s) themselves, not of the Star Wars universe as a whole. Star Wars is a big huge thing now. Yes, the movies are what drives the mass of people the see them. But that same mass are not the ones participating in internet forums and having knock down arguments and discussions about the Star Wars IP. Especially these days when the IP is very much a multi-media effort. I'm not forgiving any shitty movie-,making choices for not telling the whole story. That irks me as much as you. I'm saying that if we are discussing the Star Wars universe, it should not be taboo from drawing from other canon sources than the movies.

    What prompted my comment was, seemingly, more and more posts along the lines of not counting the comics or if its not in the movies, it didn't happen and the like. I'm not quoting anyone or coming after one particular thing some poster said. Its more of a general comment. If nerds are gonna discuss, we should all be discussing from the same page. And that page should be, imo, "Canon".

    But that's not what people are complaining about. People are dismissing those other sources because they aren't the movie and the movie is where the prophecy gets mentioned but never actually explained in any way whatsoever. Which is what people are commenting on.

    And of course, beyond that specific issues, there's also the fact that the "canon" is not actually consistent. Or frequently even clear. Even after Disney took over and that's in large part because even the movies aren't really all that consistent.

    But if the prophecy was explained in, say, the Clone Wars (which I don't know if it was, TBH) then my entire point is that even though the movies didn't explain it like they should have, the cartoon did and that we should frame discussions around the prophecy as if it was explained properly.

  • KamarKamar Registered User regular
    I don't recall specific elaboration on the prophecy, but the Clone Wars' Mortis arc touches on the Chosen One thing and clearly shows Light and Balance as separate concepts; the Daughter departs from the Father as much as the Son.

    To speculate further, Light out of Balance may not be malicious, but it seems...doomed?

    Nightslyr
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Yeah even tho I haven’t seen it I’ve read enough wookiepedia to know that they explain the prophecy and confirm Anakin is the chosen one because the reason that series exists is to fix all the terrible shit Lucas did in the PT

    I brought this tangent up for help understanding if any of this made sense based on the context of the movies at the time they were released and I think the answer is ::blows raspberries::

    Captain Inertia on
  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Space Boston returns next season.

    (be careful, the article gives minor spoilers for the S1 episode he's in)

    https://deadline.com/2020/03/the-mandalorian-season-2-cast-michael-biehn-joins-bill-burr-returning-1202892470/
    Deadline has confirmed all The Mandalorian season 2 noise out there: Michael Biehn has joined, with stand-up comedian Bill Burr returning as his season one character of Imperial sharpshooter-turned-mercenary Mayfield.
    ...
    The Disney+ series has wrapped shooting, and is expected to stream in October.

    ElvenshaeKoopahTroopahKrieghundDoctor DetroithlprmnkyNightslyrCommander ZoomShadowenmanwiththemachinegunGiantGeek2020
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    that headline has spoilers in it (the url)...if people haven't watched then they are going to know something maybe they shouldn't?

  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Nothing pissed me off more than seeing a bunch of articles showing up in my Google Assistant feed telling me that TROS has made Darth Revan canon. I go see TROS, keeping my eyes peeled for anything. Once we got to Exagol, I thought for sure Revan's mask was going to be carved onto one of the statues there and it would be a blink and you'll miss it thing. But nothing ever shows up.

    I find out later that they make a obscure reference to Revan in the visual dictionary book. Total fucking bullshit. As I said before, you gotta show, not tell.

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  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    Kamar wrote: »
    Disney has outright said that the only for-sure canon things are the films, some of the series, and I think some of the comics. Until the material from those gets put in an official film, show, or comic, it's no longer canon.

    It's not something the Great Nerd Council decided on, it's just... fact. Disney said what was canon, anything else can potentially be canon but is unrelated until it's actually made canon. So almost everything about Thrawn from the books is no longer canon, but Thrawn, having been in Rebels, is himself definitely canon at this point.

    Not quite. Disney's opinion has been that anything after the initial EU purge is canon now. That purge culled us down to the movies and TCW, but there's a ton of extra material now.

    That being said there is a HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS amount of old EU stuff turning up in the new stuff.
    https://io9.gizmodo.com/somehow-jaxxon-the-ridiculous-green-space-rabbit-has-m-1825369638
    It's almost like the fans of the old stuff still remember a lot of it was great. I mean, this is literally a, "$%&# you serious sci-fi nerd, the green rabbit is canon now deal with it."

    manwiththemachinegun on
    Elvenshae
  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Nothing pissed me off more than seeing a bunch of articles showing up in my Google Assistant feed telling me that TROS has made Darth Revan canon. I go see TROS, keeping my eyes peeled for anything. Once we got to Exagol, I thought for sure Revan's mask was going to be carved onto one of the statues there and it would be a blink and you'll miss it thing. But nothing ever shows up.

    I find out later that they make a obscure reference to Revan in the visual dictionary book. Total fucking bullshit. As I said before, you gotta show, not tell.

    Well, it was a visual dictionary.

  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    And the name "Revan" being canon means squat for the character of Revan.

    Honestly, it seems odd for the Sith to recognize someone who ultimately wasn’t on their side.

    VoodooV
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Yeah, but as demonstrated throughout all of Star Wars, neither the Sith nor the Jedi, as organizations, are particularly clever.

    DonnictonElvenshaemanwiththemachinegunGiantGeek2020Quid
  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Burning through the new Clone Wars episodes and I'm still baffled this is a children's show.

    HandkorDracomicronSmaug6
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    At some point Harry Potter stopped being a book series for children too.

    I think it happened to Clone Wars around the mid point of season 4.

    Elvenshae
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    My personal cutoff was whenever that one storm trooper got his eyes stabbed out by a spider droid.

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited March 29
    Okay minor annoyance

    Why the hell is a rando battle droid asking their boss if they should inform their illegal contacts

    Quid on
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    My personal cutoff was whenever that one storm trooper got his eyes stabbed out by a spider droid.

    I think it is episode 2 the droids are singing while spacing people;

    03x29di.png
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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    What, Ventress kissing the trooper as she saber-stabs him was too tame for everyone? That was very early on in the series too if I remember right

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Hmmm, the bad batch arc is pretty much 1 to 1 the unfinished list season. I think they only got rid of the joke of the bad batch having padme as a decal on their ship and Anakin getting upset about it.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited March 29
    I don’t know why I do this to myself

    Captain Inertia on
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Ok, Mrs. Sloth and I are giving the Star Wars animated shows our most real effort yet. Previously we've both found them impenetrable because

    1. Yikes they're ugly
    2. I know everyone says they get really good over time, but working through bad stuff to get to good stuff is an increasingly difficult ask when we live in an era of unparalleled creative output on the big and small screens

    Anyway this is the first time I've ever actually started Clone Wars from the very very beginning, and boy is this pilot movie one whole feature length episode of a TV show. It's kind of crazy to me that this was released theatrically.

    destroyah87Atomika
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Ok, Mrs. Sloth and I are giving the Star Wars animated shows our most real effort yet. Previously we've both found them impenetrable because

    1. Yikes they're ugly
    2. I know everyone says they get really good over time, but working through bad stuff to get to good stuff is an increasingly difficult ask when we live in an era of unparalleled creative output on the big and small screens

    Anyway this is the first time I've ever actually started Clone Wars from the very very beginning, and boy is this pilot movie one whole feature length episode of a TV show. It's kind of crazy to me that this was released theatrically.

    Im struggling to remember any animated star wars stuff that doesnt look like shit

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Ok, Mrs. Sloth and I are giving the Star Wars animated shows our most real effort yet. Previously we've both found them impenetrable because

    1. Yikes they're ugly
    2. I know everyone says they get really good over time, but working through bad stuff to get to good stuff is an increasingly difficult ask when we live in an era of unparalleled creative output on the big and small screens

    Anyway this is the first time I've ever actually started Clone Wars from the very very beginning, and boy is this pilot movie one whole feature length episode of a TV show. It's kind of crazy to me that this was released theatrically.

    Im struggling to remember any animated star wars stuff that doesnt look like shit

    Genndy's 2D stuff.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Ok, Mrs. Sloth and I are giving the Star Wars animated shows our most real effort yet. Previously we've both found them impenetrable because

    1. Yikes they're ugly
    2. I know everyone says they get really good over time, but working through bad stuff to get to good stuff is an increasingly difficult ask when we live in an era of unparalleled creative output on the big and small screens

    Anyway this is the first time I've ever actually started Clone Wars from the very very beginning, and boy is this pilot movie one whole feature length episode of a TV show. It's kind of crazy to me that this was released theatrically.

    Im struggling to remember any animated star wars stuff that doesnt look like shit

    Muppet Babies

    ElvenshaeKoopahTroopah
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Ok, Mrs. Sloth and I are giving the Star Wars animated shows our most real effort yet. Previously we've both found them impenetrable because

    1. Yikes they're ugly
    2. I know everyone says they get really good over time, but working through bad stuff to get to good stuff is an increasingly difficult ask when we live in an era of unparalleled creative output on the big and small screens

    Anyway this is the first time I've ever actually started Clone Wars from the very very beginning, and boy is this pilot movie one whole feature length episode of a TV show. It's kind of crazy to me that this was released theatrically.

    Im struggling to remember any animated star wars stuff that doesnt look like shit

    Genndy's 2D stuff.

    False

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
    Atlas in Chains
  • GimGim a freak without warning Registered User regular
    edited March 30
    A podcast I listen to dropped a commentary track for The Phantom Menace last week so I sat down and watched it. However, I kept the movie audio muted which greatly helped in not having to hear the word "midichlorians" ever again. Here are a few observations:
    • This is not a bad-looking movie. With all the criticisms over the years about over-doing the CGI environments I thought it would come across as needlessly overstuffed and unintelligible, but it's actually quite pretty.
    • The "run away really fast" Force power will never not look hokey.
    • Aside from offering nothing to the plot, the planet core section has no tension whatsoever because Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson do not react to their environments (either because everything is green screen, poor direction, or some likely combination thereof). This is an issue throughout the rest of the movie as well.
    • The droid army, as CGI creations, integrate pretty well into the movie; they look like they are actually in that space.
    • Jar Jar and Watto, however, stick out like sore CG thumbs! Sometimes in darker lighting Jar Jar will look okay but when he's in broad daylight, yikes. Watto pretty much always looks fake. Their character models look good considering it was 1999, but they just do not read as being a part of their environments at all.
    • The podracing scene is fast, fun, and the most compelling section of the movie. The problem is that once it's over, there's still another hour of movie which is not fast, fun, or compelling.
    • Jake Lloyd, as an actor who squints all the time in this movie, kind of makes perfect sense as the child version of Hayden Christensen.
    • The Battle for Naboo has NO atmosphere whatsoever. It literally looks like they're battling on the Windows XP default desktop wallpaper.
    • The big lightsaber battle loses a LOT without "Duel of the Fates" and sound effects to bring it to life. This isn't exactly a fair complaint because you're not supposed to experience it without those elements, but the action reads as much more perfunctory choreography when just visual. Also, Darth Maul toying with Obi-Wan by slashing the rim of the pit is silly.

    Gim on
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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Ok, Mrs. Sloth and I are giving the Star Wars animated shows our most real effort yet. Previously we've both found them impenetrable because

    1. Yikes they're ugly
    2. I know everyone says they get really good over time, but working through bad stuff to get to good stuff is an increasingly difficult ask when we live in an era of unparalleled creative output on the big and small screens

    Anyway this is the first time I've ever actually started Clone Wars from the very very beginning, and boy is this pilot movie one whole feature length episode of a TV show. It's kind of crazy to me that this was released theatrically.

    Im struggling to remember any animated star wars stuff that doesnt look like shit

    Genndy's 2D stuff.

    False

    This is so wrong Yoda can feel the disturbance

    Commander ZoomElvenshaeLanlaornpainfulPleasance
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    edited March 30
    Gim wrote: »
    A podcast I listen to dropped a commentary track for The Phantom Menace last week so I sat down and watched it. However, I kept the movie audio muted which greatly helped in not having to hear the word "midichlorians" ever again. Here are a few observations:
    • This is not a bad-looking movie. With all the criticisms over the years about over-doing the CGI environments I thought it would come across as needlessly overstuffed and unintelligible, but it's actually quite pretty.
    • The "run away really fast" Force power will never not look hokey.
    • Aside from offering nothing to the plot, the planet core section has no tension whatsoever because Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson do not react to their environments (either because everything is green screen, poor direction, or some likely combination thereof). This is an issue throughout the rest of the movie as well.
    • The droid army, as CGI creations, integrate pretty well into the movie; they look like they are actually in that space.
    • Jar Jar and Watto, however, stick out like sore CG thumbs! Sometimes in darker lighting Jar Jar will look okay but when he's in broad daylight, yikes. Watto pretty much always looks fake. Their character models look good considering it was 1999, but they just do not read as being a part of their environments at all.
    • The podracing scene is fast, fun, and the most compelling section of the movie. The problem is that once it's over, there's still another hour of movie which is not fast, fun, or compelling.
    • Jake Lloyd, as an actor who squints all the time, kind of makes perfect sense as the child version of Hayden Christensen.
    • The Battle for Naboo has NO atmosphere whatsoever. It literally looks like they're battling on the Windows XP default desktop wallpaper.
    • The big lightsaber battle loses a LOT without "Duel of the Fates" and sound effects to bring it to life. This isn't exactly a fair complaint because you're not supposed to experience it without those elements, but the action reads as much more perfunctory choreography when just visual. Also, Darth Maul toying with Obi-Wan by slashing the rim of the pit is silly.

    The force speed effect is one of my favorites. I can't stand either "slow mo" or "flash spinning his arms and legs" as an effect. But looking like you're moving too fast for the eyes to track and skipping out of frame? Now that I can buy.
    Quicksilver's scene I'll take as well, or Favora from Superman.

    manwiththemachinegun on
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited March 30
    Gim wrote: »
    A podcast I listen to dropped a commentary track for The Phantom Menace last week so I sat down and watched it. However, I kept the movie audio muted which greatly helped in not having to hear the word "midichlorians" ever again. Here are a few observations:
    • This is not a bad-looking movie. With all the criticisms over the years about over-doing the CGI environments I thought it would come across as needlessly overstuffed and unintelligible, but it's actually quite pretty.
    • The "run away really fast" Force power will never not look hokey.
    • Aside from offering nothing to the plot, the planet core section has no tension whatsoever because Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson do not react to their environments (either because everything is green screen, poor direction, or some likely combination thereof). This is an issue throughout the rest of the movie as well.
    • The droid army, as CGI creations, integrate pretty well into the movie; they look like they are actually in that space.
    • Jar Jar and Watto, however, stick out like sore CG thumbs! Sometimes in darker lighting Jar Jar will look okay but when he's in broad daylight, yikes. Watto pretty much always looks fake. Their character models look good considering it was 1999, but they just do not read as being a part of their environments at all.
    • The podracing scene is fast, fun, and the most compelling section of the movie. The problem is that once it's over, there's still another hour of movie which is not fast, fun, or compelling.
    • Jake Lloyd, as an actor who squints all the time, kind of makes perfect sense as the child version of Hayden Christensen.
    • The Battle for Naboo has NO atmosphere whatsoever. It literally looks like they're battling on the Windows XP default desktop wallpaper.
    • The big lightsaber battle loses a LOT without "Duel of the Fates" and sound effects to bring it to life. This isn't exactly a fair complaint because you're not supposed to experience it without those elements, but the action reads as much more perfunctory choreography when just visual. Also, Darth Maul toying with Obi-Wan by slashing the rim of the pit is silly.

    The force speed effect is one of my favorites. I can't stand either "slow mo" or "flash spinning his arms and legs" as an effect. But looking like you're moving too fast for the eyes to track and skipping out of frame? Now that I can buy.
    Quicksilver's scene I'll take as well, or Favora from Superman.

    The effect was fine but it was spectacularly jarring to see both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan use it that one time and apparently not ever take advantage of that ability any of the other 190,062 times it would have made things a lot easier for them.

    Effect = pretty good
    Force Power = come the fuck on George

    Captain Inertia on
    GimVoodooVJoolanderPailryderLanlaorn
  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    Gim wrote: »
    A podcast I listen to dropped a commentary track for The Phantom Menace last week so I sat down and watched it. However, I kept the movie audio muted which greatly helped in not having to hear the word "midichlorians" ever again. Here are a few observations:
    • This is not a bad-looking movie. With all the criticisms over the years about over-doing the CGI environments I thought it would come across as needlessly overstuffed and unintelligible, but it's actually quite pretty.
    • The "run away really fast" Force power will never not look hokey.
    • Aside from offering nothing to the plot, the planet core section has no tension whatsoever because Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson do not react to their environments (either because everything is green screen, poor direction, or some likely combination thereof). This is an issue throughout the rest of the movie as well.
    • The droid army, as CGI creations, integrate pretty well into the movie; they look like they are actually in that space.
    • Jar Jar and Watto, however, stick out like sore CG thumbs! Sometimes in darker lighting Jar Jar will look okay but when he's in broad daylight, yikes. Watto pretty much always looks fake. Their character models look good considering it was 1999, but they just do not read as being a part of their environments at all.
    • The podracing scene is fast, fun, and the most compelling section of the movie. The problem is that once it's over, there's still another hour of movie which is not fast, fun, or compelling.
    • Jake Lloyd, as an actor who squints all the time, kind of makes perfect sense as the child version of Hayden Christensen.
    • The Battle for Naboo has NO atmosphere whatsoever. It literally looks like they're battling on the Windows XP default desktop wallpaper.
    • The big lightsaber battle loses a LOT without "Duel of the Fates" and sound effects to bring it to life. This isn't exactly a fair complaint because you're not supposed to experience it without those elements, but the action reads as much more perfunctory choreography when just visual. Also, Darth Maul toying with Obi-Wan by slashing the rim of the pit is silly.

    The force speed effect is one of my favorites. I can't stand either "slow mo" or "flash spinning his arms and legs" as an effect. But looking like you're moving too fast for the eyes to track and skipping out of frame? Now that I can buy.
    Quicksilver's scene I'll take as well, or Favora from Superman.

    If Obi-Wan hadn't managed to forget how to use force speed by the end of the movie, Qui-Gon might still be alive.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    CaedwyrCaptain InertiamanwiththemachinegunBlackDragon480ShadowenLanlaorn
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    I dont remember force speed in that movie

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Me neither and had to look it up. There's like three or four frames where they get blurry and run to the side and apparently Qui Gonn used it to catch Jar Jar's tongue.

    And then no one ever mentioned it ever again.

    Captain InertiaElvenshaeGimPailryderpainfulPleasancehonovere
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