Oh I also finished the 20 essential Clone Wars episodes. The arc where Ahsoka is written out of the Jedi Order so she doesn't have to get murdered was really good. I had initially thought that Maul was behind it some way because the the episode before Palpatine is like "I have other plans for you bwahahahahaha."
So, speaking of, Tim Curry is like the most distracting possible Palpatine voice when he started talking I was like "is that fucking Tim Curry?" Also, when Palpy swings by Mandalore to fuck up Maul the fact that he goes to town with two lightsabers is just duuuuumb. Like he's a level ten million force wizard just lightning his ass. Where is the Palpatine who taunted Luke for his useless Jedi weapon? It's like nobody who makes Star Wars after the OT actually respects anything in it and it's just fan servicey whatever is cool in the moment.
Also none of the 20 most essential episodes include anything from the now penultimate season. Does that mean I just shouldn't bother?
My overall impression based almost entirely on those 20 episodes was "pretty good."
That is very much the case with a lot of this shit.
The OT is pretty consistent on this in how it ties into the vaguely-understood-by-a-bunch-of-white-western-people eastern mysticism thing that underlies the philosophies and ideas behind the force in those movies. And also the conventions of the movies that inspired that too.
Yoda isn't flipping around with a lightsaber. He's reached another level. He's a master. And the Emperor is the same from the other end. He isn't flipping around dueling Luke in the throne room. He's calmly sitting in his chair. And when Luke defies him and he finally steps in he doesn't whip out a weapon and start fighting with even more amazing lightsaber moves. He attacks him directly with like the pure dark side of the force itself and it's crazy and no one saw that shit coming.
And then suddenly by the PT Palpatine and Yoda are flipping around like a lunatics and every 2nd person is throwing around lightning to turn the TV on and off. Because it was cool the first time so, like a joke on the internet, it's even better the thousandth time.
shryke on
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Oh I also finished the 20 essential Clone Wars episodes. The arc where Ahsoka is written out of the Jedi Order so she doesn't have to get murdered was really good. I had initially thought that Maul was behind it some way because the the episode before Palpatine is like "I have other plans for you bwahahahahaha."
So, speaking of, Tim Curry is like the most distracting possible Palpatine voice when he started talking I was like "is that fucking Tim Curry?" Also, when Palpy swings by Mandalore to fuck up Maul the fact that he goes to town with two lightsabers is just duuuuumb. Like he's a level ten million force wizard just lightning his ass. Where is the Palpatine who taunted Luke for his useless Jedi weapon? It's like nobody who makes Star Wars after the OT actually respects anything in it and it's just fan servicey whatever is cool in the moment.
Also none of the 20 most essential episodes include anything from the now penultimate season. Does that mean I just shouldn't bother?
My overall impression based almost entirely on those 20 episodes was "pretty good."
That is very much the case with a lot of this shit.
The OT is pretty consistent on this in how it ties into the vaguely-understood-by-a-bunch-of-white-western-people eastern mysticism thing that underlies the philosophies and ideas behind the force in those movies. And also the conventions of the movies that inspired that too.
Yoda isn't flipping around with a lightsaber. He's reached another level. He's a master. And the Emperor is the same from the other end. He isn't flipping around dueling Luke in the throne room. He's calmly sitting in his chair. And when Luke defies him and he finally steps in he doesn't whip out a weapon and start fighting with even more amazing lightsaber moves. He attacks him directly with like the pure dark side of the force itself and it's crazy and no one saw that shit coming.
And then suddenly by the PT Palpatine and Yoda are flipping around like a lunatics and every 2nd person is throwing around lightning to turn the TV on and off. Because it was cool the first time so, like a joke on the internet, it's even better the thousandth time.
Yes, it would appear, based on their words and actions, that Palpatine and Yoda transcended the need for little tiny laser swords. The laser sword wasn't even something Yoda trained Luke in. Hell, it wasn't even anything that Obi-Wan trained him in. Yes, there was the scene with the remote but that was less about "here's how to flip around and stab motherfuckers also the high ground is important" but "feel beyond your senses, tap into the Force to see without seeing."
But then like 20 whatever years later when they're prequeling it up all anyone is like is "Oh god does anyone else just jerk off thinking about lightsabers? What if everyone you knew fought with lightsabers and there were just lightsabers 24/7 because the only thing we took away from the OT was OMG LIGHTSABERS. Yoda? Lightsabers for sure. Palpatine? Definitely lightsabers. What if we just had a really cool looking character but he didn't say any words or have a personality or matter at all but he has a DOUBLE BLADED LIGHTSABER which is better than being a meaningful character! YES!"
It's like the movies were written by the valets in the Key and Peele sketches.
This all just plays into the idea that it's asking a lot for a show that takes place in the middle of the prequels to have a different tone when it comes to certain things. Palpatine fighting Maul and Savage is completely consistent with what we got during the prequels on the whole. Which isn't to say that it's good, but rather that it's not out of place. And it wouldn't make a lot of sense to have an OT style engagement in the middle of media that has very little in common with it.
Similarly, there's a badass moment in Rebels (spoilered):
When Maul and Obi-Wan have their final duel, Maul tries a fancy flippy-do move similar to how he killed Qui-Gon. Except, Obi-Wan was ready for it, and dispatches Maul with a simple parry and thrust.
So, not only did the fight pay homage to the one in TPM, not only did it show Obi-Wan's growth, not only was it a stunning moment in and of itself, it also represented/highlighted the stylistic change going from the PT to the OT. Indeed, Rebels on the whole has Kanaan and Ezra fighting like OT Jedi pretty much the entire time.
These moments are intentional, and aren't just done on a whim without any thought or care given to the larger whole. Indeed, Dave Filoni - showrunner of The Clone Wars, Rebels, and The Mandalorian - was essentially Lucas' understudy. They worked shoulder-to-shoulder on the shows until Lucas sold the entire franchise to Disney. Filoni knows Star Wars almost as well as its own creator, not just in terms of people/places/timeline, but in terms of themes and feel and what Lucas considered to be the soul of the saga. He's the closest Star Wars can get to its creator without bringing Lucas back.
And, seriously, listen to him talk. He's had a lot of time in front of the camera (Fan Fest at the very least) where he talks about these things. Moments that are easy to find on YouTube. He's not pulling any of this out of his ass, or doing it because it's momentarily cool. There's a deliberate, considered process to all of it. It might not all stick the landing - there are complete arcs in TCW that I don't enjoy - but his track record is very good.
I'm not sure trying to bridge the styles of the terrible PT and the OT is really a task worth doing. It's like compromising between eating pizza and eating your own shit by taking a shit on your pizza.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
The PT is so bad it keeps me from enjoying a lot of the content from Clone Wars and Rebels simply because the concepts and some of the characters (from the PT) are just so, so awful.
Filoni is who I want to take over Star Wars. Rebels I think is better than Clone Wars. It feels and is very tied to the OT over the PT. But Clone Wars, both Filoni's and Tartosky's are the two good things out of the PT. I feel Filoni's, especially early when Lucas was more involved, has rough moments. But his love for the universe is there. And he does what he can to try and fill what could have been. Watching the most recent episode I was struck by a few things.
1) Anakin looks like an adult. He looks like what would make sense for the OT story. His actions in the war and interactions with others shows him to match Obi-won's story of being his best friend the best pilot who knew.
2) There feels like actual relationships between characters not the PT.
3) It makes Order 66 much more tragic for some of the clones. But also many Jedi are dicks.
4) Anakin's fall feels logical and built up to. He takes small steps. Not just from Jedi to youngling killer in a matter of seconds.
Filoni did more to rehabilitate Anakin than I thought possible. And part of that is I haven't watched the PT in over a decade. To me the PT is just the Clone Wars series now. It has rough moments but it also has great stories. Especially when it is about not Jedi like the ones very specifically focused on the Clones.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
To be honest, I'm leery of anybody being too close to Lucas as an understudy. Lucas took an inordinate amount of credit for the OT, when the reality of the situation was that he had some bare-bones material that a lot of people did some amazing work on to make the OT. Then he retained draconian control of all other SW media, once again controlling it all like it was his thing and not a massive collaborative effort with dozens or hundreds of sources of materials and styles. I wouldn't credit Lucas as the "creator" for more than a tiny, tiny fraction of Star Wars, and a lot of other people have done more/better work in breathing it to life than Lucas did.
I don't want somebody who takes after Lucas, I want somebody who saw what Lucas did and goes "no, we're going to do this the right way now, where people can do their thing but don't get to shit on the effort of others". Which is the lesson I'm hoping Filoni learned.
That, and to just give the fuck up on the PT material already. Short of scrapping the PT and replacing it wholesale with good movies, it's just not worth the effort of trying to save that shit sandwich. Wrap it up and move on already, the PT period is not where it's worth spending the effort. And I'd say move the fuck on past the whole OT and related material, except we're apparently going in the stupid direction into the past instead of finally getting to see the SW setting with an actual future.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
To be honest, I'm leery of anybody being too close to Lucas as an understudy. Lucas took an inordinate amount of credit for the OT, when the reality of the situation was that he had some bare-bones material that a lot of people did some amazing work on to make the OT. Then he retained draconian control of all other SW media, once again controlling it all like it was his thing and not a massive collaborative effort with dozens or hundreds of sources of materials and styles. I wouldn't credit Lucas as the "creator" for more than a tiny, tiny fraction of Star Wars, and a lot of other people have done more/better work in breathing it to life than Lucas did.
I don't want somebody who takes after Lucas, I want somebody who saw what Lucas did and goes "no, we're going to do this the right way now, where people can do their thing but don't get to shit on the effort of others". Which is the lesson I'm hoping Filoni learned.
That, and to just give the fuck up on the PT material already. Short of scrapping the PT and replacing it wholesale with good movies, it's just not worth the effort of trying to save that shit sandwich. Wrap it up and move on already, the PT period is not where it's worth spending the effort. And I'd say move the fuck on past the whole OT and related material, except we're apparently going in the stupid direction into the past instead of finally getting to see the SW setting with an actual future.
The PT (and time between the PT and OT) has way more story potential than anything after the OT, though.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited March 2020
Being Lucas's understudy is faint praise because Lucas is one of the people that do not understand his creation because as Snarl said, he was not wholesale responsible for what made it great, and I think there is a lot of evidence of was good despite his flaws as a storyteller. Lucas IS too obsessed with the flash and the laser swords. Lucas IS the geeky fanboy who spent nearly 20 years saying "yo but what if Yoda had a dope ass lightsaber?"
Its like how many of our founding fathers were slave owners. Hewing dogmatically to their vision is a mixed bag.
I would much rather Favreau or Feige or hell even Abrams take over the creative vision. They know how to adapt something faithfully and convey the spirit of something. The Force Awakens felt like a star wars movie more than any prequel did. Just don't let JJ write and direct and produce. Much like Lucas, he thinks he can do it all but he needs checks.
The novelization of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirms Palpatine was a clone. The Disney era of Star Wars has frequently used novelizations to tie up loose ends from the films themselves.
"All the vials were empty of liquid save one, which was nearly depleted. Kylo peered closer. He'd seen this apparatus before, too, when he'd studied the Clone Wars as a boy. The liquid flowing into the living nightmare before him was fighting a losing battle to sustain the Emperor's putrid flesh.
"What could you give me?" Kylo asked. Emperor Palpatine lived, after a fashion, and Kylo could feel in his very bones that this clone body sheltered the Emperor's actual spirit. It was an imperfect vessel, though, unable to contain his immense power. It couldn't last much longer."
Being Lucas's understudy is faint praise because Lucas is one of the people that do not understand his creation because as Snarl said, he was not wholesale responsible for what made it great, and I think there is a lot of evidence of was good despite his flaws as a storyteller. Lucas IS too obsessed with the flash and the laser swords. Lucas IS the geeky fanboy who spent nearly 20 years saying "yo but what if Yoda had a dope ass lightsaber?"
Its like how many of our founding fathers were slave owners. Hewing dogmatically to their vision is a mixed bag.
I would much rather Favreau or Feige or hell even Abrams take over the creative vision. They know how to adapt something faithfully and convey the spirit of something. The Force Awakens felt like a star wars movie more than any prequel did. Just don't let JJ write and direct and produce. Much like Lucas, he thinks he can do it all but he needs checks.
My dude, I know we all are passionate about Star Wars, but I think you may want to rethink your comparison to slavery.
I am in the business of saving lives.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
To be honest, I'm leery of anybody being too close to Lucas as an understudy. Lucas took an inordinate amount of credit for the OT, when the reality of the situation was that he had some bare-bones material that a lot of people did some amazing work on to make the OT. Then he retained draconian control of all other SW media, once again controlling it all like it was his thing and not a massive collaborative effort with dozens or hundreds of sources of materials and styles. I wouldn't credit Lucas as the "creator" for more than a tiny, tiny fraction of Star Wars, and a lot of other people have done more/better work in breathing it to life than Lucas did.
I don't want somebody who takes after Lucas, I want somebody who saw what Lucas did and goes "no, we're going to do this the right way now, where people can do their thing but don't get to shit on the effort of others". Which is the lesson I'm hoping Filoni learned.
That, and to just give the fuck up on the PT material already. Short of scrapping the PT and replacing it wholesale with good movies, it's just not worth the effort of trying to save that shit sandwich. Wrap it up and move on already, the PT period is not where it's worth spending the effort. And I'd say move the fuck on past the whole OT and related material, except we're apparently going in the stupid direction into the past instead of finally getting to see the SW setting with an actual future.
The PT (and time between the PT and OT) has way more story potential than anything after the OT, though.
In terms of the timeframe we deal with in the movies, I would say I disagree except that we've gotten the turd that is the ST and thus now know that anything big-scale between the OT and ST is thus going to be attached to a major turd as well. If the ST was still a pending thing, I'd say the time period immediately following the OT would be infinitely more interesting than the PT. The PT and related events are bunch of tedious political drama, with the Jedi Order being a boring pile of boring. After the OT, we could've seen a real exploration of trying to recover the Jedi (and whether it's worth it) plus trying to recover peace from a totalitarian regime.
But with the material we actually got, yeah, the PT has the more interesting stuff. However, it still comes down to polishing a turd. Why the fuck waste time on that when there's a million places to move forward towards? Because no amount of additional media is going to make the PT any better, but anything attached to the PT will be perpetually weighed down by that crappy trilogy. Just put the effort into something that can be out-and-out good, instead of continuing the Lucas legacy of trying to rewrite/paper over massive mistakes.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Its like how many of our founding fathers were slave owners. Hewing dogmatically to their vision is a mixed bag.
Let's not go nuts here, huh? "Received more than his share of credit for a pop culture mainstay" is not even in the same galaxy as "owned slaves while writing the words all men are created equal."
Shadowen on
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Its like how many of our founding fathers were slave owners. Hewing dogmatically to their vision is a mixed bag.
Let's not go nuts here, huh? "Received more than his share of credit for a pop culture mainstay" is not even in the same galaxy as "owned slaves while writing the words all men are created equal."
Sorry. It was the first mixed bag I could think of. Maybe it's like getting insert your least favorite candy on Halloween.
I forgot all analogies were understood to be 1:1 comparisons.
The novelization of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirms Palpatine was a clone. The Disney era of Star Wars has frequently used novelizations to tie up loose ends from the films themselves.
"All the vials were empty of liquid save one, which was nearly depleted. Kylo peered closer. He'd seen this apparatus before, too, when he'd studied the Clone Wars as a boy. The liquid flowing into the living nightmare before him was fighting a losing battle to sustain the Emperor's putrid flesh.
"What could you give me?" Kylo asked. Emperor Palpatine lived, after a fashion, and Kylo could feel in his very bones that this clone body sheltered the Emperor's actual spirit. It was an imperfect vessel, though, unable to contain his immense power. It couldn't last much longer."
I'm disappointed there's no D-Wing, and thus no way of making endless cheap "Give 'em the D" type laughs. The squad leader demanding the order for them attack has to be couched as "We want the D". Amusingly shaped attack formations, etc. Just a terrible missed opportunity all round.
That ship looks nothing like a penis, this is why people dont like the EU.
It's also just generally ugly and stupid as shit.
Which, again, why people don't like the EU.
Many of the EU ships are ugly or boring as hell. The E-Wing is generic as all hell. It kind of looks like a shittier version of Colonial Vipers from BSG. The K-Wing? Ugly, overdesigned, and they really fucking shoehorned the K in there.
I’ve never been able to make the Sun Crusher register as a ship in my brain.
At most, a brass waffle cone.
I'd never seen a picture before so I had to look it up and wow, that's bad. Somehow young me came away from the book thinking that the Sun Crusher looked like a Star Trek shuttle and that misconception is infinitely better than weird ass cone.
Like, doesn't Kyp mess with one of the torpedoes while in the ship? How the fuck is he supposed to do that if the launcher is at the pointy end of that thing?
He single-handedly murders an entire populated solar system and the Jedi jurisprudence, after thinking about it for whole hours, rules "Well, the devil Sith ghost made him do it, and he's clearly sorry. Welcome back to the fold, brother."
The whole Sun Crusher affair is all kinds of stupid, but it's really not really the dumb looking ship that's the problem. It's not really any stupider looking than the not-flying-fortresses or any of the other weird designs that, in trying to look different, might just end up looking dumb.
He also stuffs himself into a missile after he sets the autopilot to fly into a black hole.
I'm disappointed there's no D-Wing, and thus no way of making endless cheap "Give 'em the D" type laughs. The squad leader demanding the order for them attack has to be couched as "We want the D". Amusingly shaped attack formations, etc. Just a terrible missed opportunity all round.
That ship looks nothing like a penis, this is why people dont like the EU.
It's also just generally ugly and stupid as shit.
Which, again, why people don't like the EU.
Many of the EU ships are ugly or boring as hell. The E-Wing is generic as all hell. It kind of looks like a shittier version of Colonial Vipers from BSG. The K-Wing? Ugly, overdesigned, and they really fucking shoehorned the K in there.
I’ve never been able to make the Sun Crusher register as a ship in my brain.
At most, a brass waffle cone.
I'd never seen a picture before so I had to look it up and wow, that's bad. Somehow young me came away from the book thinking that the Sun Crusher looked like a Star Trek shuttle and that misconception is infinitely better than weird ass cone.
Like, doesn't Kyp mess with one of the torpedoes while in the ship? How the fuck is he supposed to do that if the launcher is at the pointy end of that thing?
He single-handedly murders an entire populated solar system and the Jedi jurisprudence, after thinking about it for whole hours, rules "Well, the devil Sith ghost made him do it, and he's clearly sorry. Welcome back to the fold, brother."
The whole Sun Crusher affair is all kinds of stupid, but it's really not really the dumb looking ship that's the problem. It's not really any stupider looking than the not-flying-fortresses or any of the other weird designs that, in trying to look different, might just end up looking dumb.
He also stuffs himself into a missile after he sets the autopilot to fly into a black hole.
I think it was a message tube. Which, technically, is less stupid because it's an empty canister, apparently, unlike a missile, which is not.
But that's putting the cart before the horse. It's not stupid because the man who single-handedly killed an entire planet* (and anyone else who lived in that planetary system) apparently climbed down a ladder running lengthwise through the ship and fiddled with a torpedo that way. It's stupid because he committed planet-scale mass murder without even the proverbial fig leaf of outright warfare (as though that would justify an atrocity), and the "morale" (as in "Jedi") response was to to forgive him because he felt really bad about it.
*They were in the Empire, so it doesn't count. Ha ha, suck it Alderaan.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
I just looked up the Sun Crusher and my god it sounds stupid.
(That diagram, IMO, really drives home the "this was thought up by a child" nature of the thing. And not even middle school; we're talking, like, eight.)
The look is still the least stupid thing about it. It's like the hypothetical eight-year old was asked to come up with something like the Death Star but different.
So you got a weapon that can blow up stars, only it's in an invulnerable fighter. Its most practical use as a weapon was to not use its main weapon, you just flew it through other spaceships.
Star Wars in general has a serious problem with superweapons, which is a problem because it's the first establishing thing of the franchise, but people have always been compelled to come up with ways to top the Death Star.
It's like glasses as a disguise; Superman can get away with it, but everyone else has to put some work into it to make it believable. The Death Star gets a pass, but everything else that's just 'like the Death Star, but again/bigger/smaller/more of them' is rightfully derided.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I'm sorry, was that supposed to be a mystery?
He got thrown down a shaft that exploded on a space station that then proceeded to explode. Copying his mind to a clone body was actually the most logical explanation.
Remember when they made those great star wars movies ages ago and then a couple books and then never did anything else with the IP? Yeah I remember that too, wonder why they never made anything else, ah, probably for the best, they'd probably just, you know, screw it all up and stuff. Yeah.
I should have clarified. The problem is not in the cloning. The problem is that this is revealed in a novel, not the movie. This would not have fixed the movie in my opinion but it would have addressed one criticism.
Of course, this still leaves the issue of “ so what’s to stop him from coming back again?”
The novelization of Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker confirms Palpatine was a clone. The Disney era of Star Wars has frequently used novelizations to tie up loose ends from the films themselves.
"All the vials were empty of liquid save one, which was nearly depleted. Kylo peered closer. He'd seen this apparatus before, too, when he'd studied the Clone Wars as a boy. The liquid flowing into the living nightmare before him was fighting a losing battle to sustain the Emperor's putrid flesh.
"What could you give me?" Kylo asked. Emperor Palpatine lived, after a fashion, and Kylo could feel in his very bones that this clone body sheltered the Emperor's actual spirit. It was an imperfect vessel, though, unable to contain his immense power. It couldn't last much longer."
the old open mouth kiss on the lips of celebration with a platonic friend
Look, if you're not getting slipped at least a little tongue when you help your buddies move, are you really buddies?
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Why would the clone look like shit and be unable to walk though? Shouldn't it be a nice shiny body off the factory floor?
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NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Didn't the EU clone palps have a similar degradation issue?
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
The problem with cloning is that it's a cheap plot contrivance that allows them to bring back any character at any time with no setup and no consequences. They don't even have to do any work in the writer's room to make it happen, the dead character is just suddenly back again and they retroactively justify it with a new character who has no relevant knowledge giving a throwaway line. It's the calibre of writing you might see in an ARPG to justify why there's a hard mode for a boss battle.
I should have clarified. The problem is not in the cloning. The problem is that this is revealed in a novel, not the movie. This would not have fixed the movie in my opinion but it would have addressed one criticism.
There wasn't room in the movie with the fifty other things they tried to cram in there.
Of course, this still leaves the issue of “ so what’s to stop him from coming back again?”
Posts
That is very much the case with a lot of this shit.
The OT is pretty consistent on this in how it ties into the vaguely-understood-by-a-bunch-of-white-western-people eastern mysticism thing that underlies the philosophies and ideas behind the force in those movies. And also the conventions of the movies that inspired that too.
Yoda isn't flipping around with a lightsaber. He's reached another level. He's a master. And the Emperor is the same from the other end. He isn't flipping around dueling Luke in the throne room. He's calmly sitting in his chair. And when Luke defies him and he finally steps in he doesn't whip out a weapon and start fighting with even more amazing lightsaber moves. He attacks him directly with like the pure dark side of the force itself and it's crazy and no one saw that shit coming.
And then suddenly by the PT Palpatine and Yoda are flipping around like a lunatics and every 2nd person is throwing around lightning to turn the TV on and off. Because it was cool the first time so, like a joke on the internet, it's even better the thousandth time.
Yes, it would appear, based on their words and actions, that Palpatine and Yoda transcended the need for little tiny laser swords. The laser sword wasn't even something Yoda trained Luke in. Hell, it wasn't even anything that Obi-Wan trained him in. Yes, there was the scene with the remote but that was less about "here's how to flip around and stab motherfuckers also the high ground is important" but "feel beyond your senses, tap into the Force to see without seeing."
But then like 20 whatever years later when they're prequeling it up all anyone is like is "Oh god does anyone else just jerk off thinking about lightsabers? What if everyone you knew fought with lightsabers and there were just lightsabers 24/7 because the only thing we took away from the OT was OMG LIGHTSABERS. Yoda? Lightsabers for sure. Palpatine? Definitely lightsabers. What if we just had a really cool looking character but he didn't say any words or have a personality or matter at all but he has a DOUBLE BLADED LIGHTSABER which is better than being a meaningful character! YES!"
It's like the movies were written by the valets in the Key and Peele sketches.
Similarly, there's a badass moment in Rebels (spoilered):
So, not only did the fight pay homage to the one in TPM, not only did it show Obi-Wan's growth, not only was it a stunning moment in and of itself, it also represented/highlighted the stylistic change going from the PT to the OT. Indeed, Rebels on the whole has Kanaan and Ezra fighting like OT Jedi pretty much the entire time.
These moments are intentional, and aren't just done on a whim without any thought or care given to the larger whole. Indeed, Dave Filoni - showrunner of The Clone Wars, Rebels, and The Mandalorian - was essentially Lucas' understudy. They worked shoulder-to-shoulder on the shows until Lucas sold the entire franchise to Disney. Filoni knows Star Wars almost as well as its own creator, not just in terms of people/places/timeline, but in terms of themes and feel and what Lucas considered to be the soul of the saga. He's the closest Star Wars can get to its creator without bringing Lucas back.
And, seriously, listen to him talk. He's had a lot of time in front of the camera (Fan Fest at the very least) where he talks about these things. Moments that are easy to find on YouTube. He's not pulling any of this out of his ass, or doing it because it's momentarily cool. There's a deliberate, considered process to all of it. It might not all stick the landing - there are complete arcs in TCW that I don't enjoy - but his track record is very good.
1) Anakin looks like an adult. He looks like what would make sense for the OT story. His actions in the war and interactions with others shows him to match Obi-won's story of being his best friend the best pilot who knew.
2) There feels like actual relationships between characters not the PT.
3) It makes Order 66 much more tragic for some of the clones. But also many Jedi are dicks.
4) Anakin's fall feels logical and built up to. He takes small steps. Not just from Jedi to youngling killer in a matter of seconds.
Filoni did more to rehabilitate Anakin than I thought possible. And part of that is I haven't watched the PT in over a decade. To me the PT is just the Clone Wars series now. It has rough moments but it also has great stories. Especially when it is about not Jedi like the ones very specifically focused on the Clones.
I don't want somebody who takes after Lucas, I want somebody who saw what Lucas did and goes "no, we're going to do this the right way now, where people can do their thing but don't get to shit on the effort of others". Which is the lesson I'm hoping Filoni learned.
That, and to just give the fuck up on the PT material already. Short of scrapping the PT and replacing it wholesale with good movies, it's just not worth the effort of trying to save that shit sandwich. Wrap it up and move on already, the PT period is not where it's worth spending the effort. And I'd say move the fuck on past the whole OT and related material, except we're apparently going in the stupid direction into the past instead of finally getting to see the SW setting with an actual future.
The PT (and time between the PT and OT) has way more story potential than anything after the OT, though.
Its like how many of our founding fathers were slave owners. Hewing dogmatically to their vision is a mixed bag.
I would much rather Favreau or Feige or hell even Abrams take over the creative vision. They know how to adapt something faithfully and convey the spirit of something. The Force Awakens felt like a star wars movie more than any prequel did. Just don't let JJ write and direct and produce. Much like Lucas, he thinks he can do it all but he needs checks.
My dude, I know we all are passionate about Star Wars, but I think you may want to rethink your comparison to slavery.
In terms of the timeframe we deal with in the movies, I would say I disagree except that we've gotten the turd that is the ST and thus now know that anything big-scale between the OT and ST is thus going to be attached to a major turd as well. If the ST was still a pending thing, I'd say the time period immediately following the OT would be infinitely more interesting than the PT. The PT and related events are bunch of tedious political drama, with the Jedi Order being a boring pile of boring. After the OT, we could've seen a real exploration of trying to recover the Jedi (and whether it's worth it) plus trying to recover peace from a totalitarian regime.
But with the material we actually got, yeah, the PT has the more interesting stuff. However, it still comes down to polishing a turd. Why the fuck waste time on that when there's a million places to move forward towards? Because no amount of additional media is going to make the PT any better, but anything attached to the PT will be perpetually weighed down by that crappy trilogy. Just put the effort into something that can be out-and-out good, instead of continuing the Lucas legacy of trying to rewrite/paper over massive mistakes.
Let's not go nuts here, huh? "Received more than his share of credit for a pop culture mainstay" is not even in the same galaxy as "owned slaves while writing the words all men are created equal."
Sorry. It was the first mixed bag I could think of. Maybe it's like getting insert your least favorite candy on Halloween.
I forgot all analogies were understood to be 1:1 comparisons.
1. Having Anakin as a child and not as 16//17 year old.
2. Midichlorians.
EDIT: Wait, and the immaculate conception.
Don't worry they also retconned Reylo
the old open mouth kiss on the lips of celebration with a platonic friend
I think it was a message tube. Which, technically, is less stupid because it's an empty canister, apparently, unlike a missile, which is not.
But that's putting the cart before the horse. It's not stupid because the man who single-handedly killed an entire planet* (and anyone else who lived in that planetary system) apparently climbed down a ladder running lengthwise through the ship and fiddled with a torpedo that way. It's stupid because he committed planet-scale mass murder without even the proverbial fig leaf of outright warfare (as though that would justify an atrocity), and the "morale" (as in "Jedi") response was to to forgive him because he felt really bad about it.
*They were in the Empire, so it doesn't count. Ha ha, suck it Alderaan.
That's not what I pictured.
So you got a weapon that can blow up stars, only it's in an invulnerable fighter. Its most practical use as a weapon was to not use its main weapon, you just flew it through other spaceships.
Star Wars in general has a serious problem with superweapons, which is a problem because it's the first establishing thing of the franchise, but people have always been compelled to come up with ways to top the Death Star.
It's like glasses as a disguise; Superman can get away with it, but everyone else has to put some work into it to make it believable. The Death Star gets a pass, but everything else that's just 'like the Death Star, but again/bigger/smaller/more of them' is rightfully derided.
Presumably with the resonance energizer and repulsorlift vents.
"retractable ladder at foot" is somehow absurdly hilarious
*points to random part of drawing*
"Thats where the torpedoes go"
I'm sorry, was that supposed to be a mystery?
He got thrown down a shaft that exploded on a space station that then proceeded to explode. Copying his mind to a clone body was actually the most logical explanation.
Of course, this still leaves the issue of “ so what’s to stop him from coming back again?”
Look, if you're not getting slipped at least a little tongue when you help your buddies move, are you really buddies?
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
There wasn't room in the movie with the fifty other things they tried to cram in there.
TWO LIGHTSABERS