It is sorta amazing that I can look at tros as a work of complete cinematic cowardice, I also truly believe that it is the movie the film makers wanted to create.
So much dumb
tros made me dislike JJ Abrams as a person. So many of the decisions feel like shitty ego things
It is sorta amazing that I can look at tros as a work of complete cinematic cowardice, I also truly believe that it is the movie the film makers wanted to create.
So much dumb
tros made me dislike JJ Abrams as a person. So many of the decisions feel like shitty ego things
I don't care for some of what Rian Johnson did to established characters (and, like, the entire Resistance as it existed up to then) to make his Point(s), but at least he didn't push them aside just so he could give their lines to his entourage.
Do something post Rise of Skywalker you fucking cowards.
I mean, you can't really do anything with that status quo. You would have to go far enough into the future for it to be irrelevant.
I think you can. The movie left a lot on the table that could be expanded upon. You pretty much have to do all the work but there is room for it.
-What is the future of force sensitive people? There seem to be a lot of them now. Is Rey gonna train people? What will the that look like? Is she still a Jedi? Or something new?
-What of Finn? Might he and the other ex-stormtroopers become the start of a force sense group? Something else?
-Do we wanna expand on the implied Lore involving Sith ghosts and that legacy? There is definite the potential for something interesting.
-The galaxy is in shambles. Are they going back to a republic? A number of different factions? Surely someone is going to try to take advantage for the damage the first and last orders did to the world.
+3
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
edited July 2020
I'd argue that RoS' many lost threads are one of the major problems with that movie
it seems neat until you think about any of the stuff that actually happened in either of the other movies
If they made more EU in the vein of RoS, I would have negative interest in it. Sneer emoji as a book review. If they made some kind of anti-RoS book as a sequel to RoS, I don't believe that the higher ups have learned anything and wouldn't trust that direction as being respected and non-disposable. The decision makers probably think RoS went fine and was received relatively well, so I can't come to the table with them believing that.
That being said, post RotJ and pre RoS stuff has had some entertaining work done and far backwards prequels can still interest me.
+1
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JimothyNot in front of the foxhe's with the owlRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I didn’t really like the Bad Batch, I’m surprised they think they’re worth a whole spinoff
But I’ll probably watch it
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
They need to RoS RoS. That is, they need to do to RoS what RoS did to TLJ.
They need to RoS RoS. That is, they need to do to RoS what RoS did to TLJ.
I think that this line of thought leads to nothing but bad road. They just need to take a look at where RoS left he series and figure out a good place to go from there. The movie was absolute trash but the comic book readers in this forum will know that a good writer can take a terrible story and weave it into something good without completely retconning it away.
RoS is here now and the best thing Disney can do is recognize that it made nobody happy but worn in the framework it left.
It’s not too late to let Finn and Poe mack on each other Disney!
If Star Wars was a DC/ Marvel type comic series where you can steer the ship wildly away from something to please the fans, I'd have some suggestions, listed in spoilers below to avoid clogging up the thread. The problem is, it's not that. It's a corporate brand that has major story directions controlled by the desire to be mass market friendly, easy to export to anti-humanitarian countries, and etc. So it can be diverse... to a point. It can have themes... but it will also throw those in the garbage if they think there's money in doing that.
Suggestions on how to get off the iceberg:
- Suggest Sith trickery regarding Rey's parentage and then run miles in the other direction from the subject. Refuse categorically to describe what the tricks could have been as you'd have to redo scenes from RoS to actually fix the cluster eff that was written here.
- Just start a love square for Finn and see what the fans react most strongly to. I'm all for Finn x Poe, have somebody write up some shipping fuel for that and see if the fans react. I'm being ambivalent here because I don't think Finn x Rose shippers or Finn x Rey shippers deserve to be hated like Disney does for being scared shitless of doing literally anything with this.
- The new threat should be opportunistic fascists and corporations using the huge amount of First Order + Sith hardware lying around by the end of the ridiculous series ending battles. The major focus for the good guys should be learning from how a new Empire sprouted right after the first one got killed. Why did people feel the New Republic was trash and didn't want to support it?
- Likewise, the Jedi angle should be Rey trying to avoid the Jedi becoming a weird out of touch cult again, with a shocking number of school shooter types emerging from their number. There should be a pretty popular anti-Jedi movement in the galaxy by this point, the writers will have to think of a way to make the good guys not play directly into those arguments.
- Do a series with COMPLETELY new characters, like Rebels, but in this era. Because all the new people got tied into the Skywalker/ Palpatine feud so intricately by the end, we need to make the universe bigger and fast at this point. Tie ins to established characters are allowed only AFTER people are actually fans of the new ones.
- Speaking of new, bad guy Force users who have never even heard of the Sith. They have the Force, they use it selfishly and destructively... no Sith connection at all. No lightsabers would be the clearest way to make this break clear. Have them shoot people and do other bad guy stuff!
Using the less established clones as the perspective and having more established clones as recurring characters is smart imo
I'd rather see some unestablished clones than the badly established bar batch, but I'm gonna try it at least anyway.
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
I still am just dumstruck that they whiffed as bad as they did with tros. How the ever loving fuck. And then to fucking hype it up as a conclusion to the entire saga! To stoke all the feelings and deliver so many promises, that were entirely self generated. No one was saying the end of the saga before they did it, and then to deliver a product that was not only failed those lofty ambitions, but failed to even deal with the plot lines of it's own film era.
Not only did it do everything to kill any overarching story in the sequels it also did it's best to poison the whole era.
I still am just dumstruck that they whiffed as bad as they did with tros. How the ever loving fuck. And then to fucking hype it up as a conclusion to the entire saga! To stoke all the feelings and deliver so many promises, that were entirely self generated. No one was saying the end of the saga before they did it, and then to deliver a product that was not only failed those lofty ambitions, but failed to even deal with the plot lines of it's own film era.
Not only did it do everything to kill any overarching story in the sequels it also did it's best to poison the whole era.
I'M STILL ANGRY ABOUT THIS ITS BEEN 8 MONTHS FUCK
I walked out of TROS thinking "that wasn't as bad as everyone is saying".
Then I thought about it more.
It's absolutely that bad and I feel sorry for the actors who will forever be tarred with being part of that shitshow.
Its GOT Season 8 if it was a movie. There's a nugget of a good idea there but it's executed so so badly.
Dark Empire should have been spread across an entire trilogy and we'd have all loved it.
This is your periodic reminder that Lupita Nyong’o and Kelly Marie Tran are both fucking spectacular And barely fucking in Rise of Skywalker, and I will remain furious about it until the heat death of the Universe.
This is your periodic reminder that Lupita Nyong’o and Kelly Marie Tran are both fucking spectacular And barely fucking in Rise of Skywalker, and I will remain furious about it until the heat death of the Universe.
However, I am a radical and I think the new trilogy should have covered the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.
Would need to cut out some of the bloat from the books and tone down the whole BDSM thing they've got going on.
But still, do something different. We've had Light side vs Dark side for 6 films.
Part of the reason the Vong invasion was interesting as books is that it took up plot elements created and developed in numerous other books and took them forward in a very dramatic way. Both the Young Jedi Knights and Junior Jedi Knights series of books for younger readers had all of their characters and character development dragged into an adult fiction series, then characters start dying, rising to the challenge, or failing. It was getting to see all these set up dominoes from a decade ago get turned over.
None of this works if you just start there, having developed none of it.
However, I am a radical and I think the new trilogy should have covered the Yuuzhan Vong invasion.
Would need to cut out some of the bloat from the books and tone down the whole BDSM thing they've got going on.
But still, do something different. We've had Light side vs Dark side for 6 films.
Part of the reason the Vong invasion was interesting as books is that it took up plot elements created and developed in numerous other books and took them forward in a very dramatic way. Both the Young Jedi Knights and Junior Jedi Knights series of books for younger readers had all of their characters and character development dragged into an adult fiction series, then characters start dying, rising to the challenge, or failing. It was getting to see all these set up dominoes from a decade ago get turned over.
None of this works if you just start there, having developed none of it.
You should simulate the same impact by killing some of the OT characters in the new trilogy.
This is your periodic reminder that Lupita Nyong’o and Kelly Marie Tran are both fucking spectacular And barely fucking in Rise of Skywalker, and I will remain furious about it until the heat death of the Universe.
You really should have said! Bottling these things up is bad for you.
+2
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
The NJO books sure were about fending off an invasion from a sect of jihadist zealots, huh
The weird thing was the series started in 1998. Which isn't to say no one knew that there were groups out there--IIRC bin Laden was on the most wanted list for years before 9/11 thanks to the first attack on the WTC--but I just wouldn't have expected Star Wars to be on the bleeding edge of an issue. (The original trilogy, after all, was among other things a reaction to the Vietnam War, and Revenge of the Sith was a reaction to the Iraq War, though I think production probably wrapped too early for it to be commentary on Bush's re-election.)
I've never seen Kelly Tran in anything else, but Lupita Nyong'o is definitely spectacular
...But that being said Maz Kanata was an utterly unimportant CGI character who shouldn't have, and didn't need to, show up again. Like the ST would not be improved by more Maz.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Yeah Lupita Nyong'o is great but I honestly did not care for Maz at all. That character didn't have much purpose beyond her initial showing in TFA and honestly being one of the fully Cgi characters in a pretty practical effect heavy film was kind of jarring.
If anything casting Lupita as a one off cg character was a waste.
I still am just dumstruck that they whiffed as bad as they did with tros. How the ever loving fuck. And then to fucking hype it up as a conclusion to the entire saga! To stoke all the feelings and deliver so many promises, that were entirely self generated. No one was saying the end of the saga before they did it, and then to deliver a product that was not only failed those lofty ambitions, but failed to even deal with the plot lines of it's own film era.
Not only did it do everything to kill any overarching story in the sequels it also did it's best to poison the whole era.
I'M STILL ANGRY ABOUT THIS ITS BEEN 8 MONTHS FUCK
I walked out of TROS thinking "that wasn't as bad as everyone is saying".
Then I thought about it more.
It's absolutely that bad and I feel sorry for the actors who will forever be tarred with being part of that shitshow.
Its GOT Season 8 if it was a movie. There's a nugget of a good idea there but it's executed so so badly.
Dark Empire should have been spread across an entire trilogy and we'd have all loved it.
One of the weirdest things is that it was smack dab in the middle of an amazing run of acclaimed star wars material. Fallen Order before, Mandalorian during, clone wars right after were nigh universally beloved and all managed to incorporate elements from the franchise in a much better way than the supposed flagship movie. The books leading up to it were well written and seemed to have lay a pretty firm groundwork for what would make sense for the movie to be about. And then the movie is out, and for the most part all Lucasfilm people, like Matt Martin and Pablo Hildago are mainly talking about the other stuff and stating that "We didn't work on the movie."
The NJO books sure were about fending off an invasion from a sect of jihadist zealots, huh
The weird thing was the series started in 1998. Which isn't to say no one knew that there were groups out there--IIRC bin Laden was on the most wanted list for years before 9/11 thanks to the first attack on the WTC--but I just wouldn't have expected Star Wars to be on the bleeding edge of an issue. (The original trilogy, after all, was among other things a reaction to the Vietnam War, and Revenge of the Sith was a reaction to the Iraq War, though I think production probably wrapped too early for it to be commentary on Bush's re-election.)
It's more that NJO was a belated reflection of the growing anti-islamic sentiments growing in the US post Desert Storm
WeedLordVegeta on
+3
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
Yeah Lupita Nyong'o is great but I honestly did not care for Maz at all. That character didn't have much purpose beyond her initial showing in TFA and honestly being one of the fully Cgi characters in a pretty practical effect heavy film was kind of jarring.
If anything casting Lupita as a one off cg character was a waste.
Was a waste is sorta the watch words for the jj movies it seems.
I've never seen Kelly Tran in anything else, but Lupita Nyong'o is definitely spectacular
...But that being said Maz Kanata was an utterly unimportant CGI character who shouldn't have, and didn't need to, show up again. Like the ST would not be improved by more Maz.
Cuz they gave her fuck all to do! I think if there was a real character there with something to do, it could have been great! The fuck are you doing casting Lupita Nyong’o in a throw away character, teasing that she’s A BIG DEAL, and then oh my God she’s Boba Fett.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Posts
tros made me dislike JJ Abrams as a person. So many of the decisions feel like shitty ego things
I don't care for some of what Rian Johnson did to established characters (and, like, the entire Resistance as it existed up to then) to make his Point(s), but at least he didn't push them aside just so he could give their lines to his entourage.
https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/star-wars-the-bad-batch-the-clone-wars-spinoff-sequel-disney/?utm_source=Comicbook.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=200713_121645_Comicbook.com Daily Newsletter&utm_content=Link
That image is like an optical illusion. Every time I look at it, I read new words.
I mean, you can't really do anything with that status quo. You would have to go far enough into the future for it to be irrelevant.
I think you can. The movie left a lot on the table that could be expanded upon. You pretty much have to do all the work but there is room for it.
-What is the future of force sensitive people? There seem to be a lot of them now. Is Rey gonna train people? What will the that look like? Is she still a Jedi? Or something new?
-What of Finn? Might he and the other ex-stormtroopers become the start of a force sense group? Something else?
-Do we wanna expand on the implied Lore involving Sith ghosts and that legacy? There is definite the potential for something interesting.
-The galaxy is in shambles. Are they going back to a republic? A number of different factions? Surely someone is going to try to take advantage for the damage the first and last orders did to the world.
it seems neat until you think about any of the stuff that actually happened in either of the other movies
That being said, post RotJ and pre RoS stuff has had some entertaining work done and far backwards prequels can still interest me.
But I’ll probably watch it
I think that this line of thought leads to nothing but bad road. They just need to take a look at where RoS left he series and figure out a good place to go from there. The movie was absolute trash but the comic book readers in this forum will know that a good writer can take a terrible story and weave it into something good without completely retconning it away.
RoS is here now and the best thing Disney can do is recognize that it made nobody happy but worn in the framework it left.
It’s not too late to let Finn and Poe mack on each other Disney!
That’s just every romantic comedy and drama.
Edit: also ET.
Suggestions on how to get off the iceberg:
- Just start a love square for Finn and see what the fans react most strongly to. I'm all for Finn x Poe, have somebody write up some shipping fuel for that and see if the fans react. I'm being ambivalent here because I don't think Finn x Rose shippers or Finn x Rey shippers deserve to be hated like Disney does for being scared shitless of doing literally anything with this.
- The new threat should be opportunistic fascists and corporations using the huge amount of First Order + Sith hardware lying around by the end of the ridiculous series ending battles. The major focus for the good guys should be learning from how a new Empire sprouted right after the first one got killed. Why did people feel the New Republic was trash and didn't want to support it?
- Likewise, the Jedi angle should be Rey trying to avoid the Jedi becoming a weird out of touch cult again, with a shocking number of school shooter types emerging from their number. There should be a pretty popular anti-Jedi movement in the galaxy by this point, the writers will have to think of a way to make the good guys not play directly into those arguments.
- Do a series with COMPLETELY new characters, like Rebels, but in this era. Because all the new people got tied into the Skywalker/ Palpatine feud so intricately by the end, we need to make the universe bigger and fast at this point. Tie ins to established characters are allowed only AFTER people are actually fans of the new ones.
- Speaking of new, bad guy Force users who have never even heard of the Sith. They have the Force, they use it selfishly and destructively... no Sith connection at all. No lightsabers would be the clearest way to make this break clear. Have them shoot people and do other bad guy stuff!
Non-exhaustive, just some ideas.
I'd rather see some unestablished clones than the badly established bar batch, but I'm gonna try it at least anyway.
Not only did it do everything to kill any overarching story in the sequels it also did it's best to poison the whole era.
I'M STILL ANGRY ABOUT THIS ITS BEEN 8 MONTHS FUCK
I walked out of TROS thinking "that wasn't as bad as everyone is saying".
Then I thought about it more.
It's absolutely that bad and I feel sorry for the actors who will forever be tarred with being part of that shitshow.
Its GOT Season 8 if it was a movie. There's a nugget of a good idea there but it's executed so so badly.
Dark Empire should have been spread across an entire trilogy and we'd have all loved it.
Would need to cut out some of the bloat from the books and tone down the whole BDSM thing they've got going on.
But still, do something different. We've had Light side vs Dark side for 6 films.
Right there with you.
Part of the reason the Vong invasion was interesting as books is that it took up plot elements created and developed in numerous other books and took them forward in a very dramatic way. Both the Young Jedi Knights and Junior Jedi Knights series of books for younger readers had all of their characters and character development dragged into an adult fiction series, then characters start dying, rising to the challenge, or failing. It was getting to see all these set up dominoes from a decade ago get turned over.
None of this works if you just start there, having developed none of it.
You should simulate the same impact by killing some of the OT characters in the new trilogy.
They did that anyway, might as well do it again.
You really should have said! Bottling these things up is bad for you.
The weird thing was the series started in 1998. Which isn't to say no one knew that there were groups out there--IIRC bin Laden was on the most wanted list for years before 9/11 thanks to the first attack on the WTC--but I just wouldn't have expected Star Wars to be on the bleeding edge of an issue. (The original trilogy, after all, was among other things a reaction to the Vietnam War, and Revenge of the Sith was a reaction to the Iraq War, though I think production probably wrapped too early for it to be commentary on Bush's re-election.)
...But that being said Maz Kanata was an utterly unimportant CGI character who shouldn't have, and didn't need to, show up again. Like the ST would not be improved by more Maz.
If anything casting Lupita as a one off cg character was a waste.
One of the weirdest things is that it was smack dab in the middle of an amazing run of acclaimed star wars material. Fallen Order before, Mandalorian during, clone wars right after were nigh universally beloved and all managed to incorporate elements from the franchise in a much better way than the supposed flagship movie. The books leading up to it were well written and seemed to have lay a pretty firm groundwork for what would make sense for the movie to be about. And then the movie is out, and for the most part all Lucasfilm people, like Matt Martin and Pablo Hildago are mainly talking about the other stuff and stating that "We didn't work on the movie."
It's all so weirdly bad.
It's more that NJO was a belated reflection of the growing anti-islamic sentiments growing in the US post Desert Storm
Was a waste is sorta the watch words for the jj movies it seems.
Cuz they gave her fuck all to do! I think if there was a real character there with something to do, it could have been great! The fuck are you doing casting Lupita Nyong’o in a throw away character, teasing that she’s A BIG DEAL, and then oh my God she’s Boba Fett.
Great, great, I’m surrounded by Bobas.
Keep firing, Bobas!