My hot take is this is too many Star Wars shows and they didn't learn their fucking lesson
I totally get this sentiment and respect it but I personally don't really feel like any of the problems with the ST or like, Disney-era Star Wars are actually from "we have a lot of projects", they all stem from "we didn't have a plan for the Sequel trilogy"
TonkkaSome one in the club tonightHas stolen my ideas.Registered Userregular
edited December 2020
As long as they keep allowing me to watch old and new episodes of AFV, they can wreck anything they want. Just let me continue to watch dads get hit in the nards with wiffle balls.
My hot take is this is too many Star Wars shows and they didn't learn their fucking lesson
I totally get this sentiment and respect it but I personally don't really feel like any of the problems with the ST or like, Disney-era Star Wars are actually from "we have a lot of projects", they all stem from "we didn't have a plan for the Sequel trilogy"
I think Solo coming out like 5 months after the previous Star Wars movie is often pointed to as a big miss for them, and the reason they postponed some of the TV projects
My hot take is this is too many Star Wars shows and they didn't learn their fucking lesson
I totally get this sentiment and respect it but I personally don't really feel like any of the problems with the ST or like, Disney-era Star Wars are actually from "we have a lot of projects", they all stem from "we didn't have a plan for the Sequel trilogy"
I think it was less that they didn't have a plan and more "let's give this franchise over to a guy who has never once crafted a good story on his own"
Also is it just me or is it a bit surreal that Patty Jenkins director of academy award winning monster apparently grew up on books like the Bacta war and is now doing rogue squadron
Patty Jenkins knows that corran is allergic to selonians
Like Rogue One was a good movie. TLJ was a good movie. TFA I think most people consider to be fine at worst. RoS is obviously irredeemable and I acknowledge that the majority dislikes Solo even though I dig that movie in spit of it's flaws. Functionally that's half of those movies being good, and (I think) would have been solved if they had had a cohesive plan for the ST.
That doesn't include the most recent season Clone Wars, all of Rebels, or the Mandalorian in its evaluation. Resistance disappointed me personally, but is pretty deliberately aimed at children (relative to Rebels and Clone Wars).
All in all, that's a pretty good success rate, I think it's produced more good SW content than bad
obviously I will change my mind if they're like "all these shows are coming out in the next 3 years" but I just don't see that being the case
My hot take is this is too many Star Wars shows and they didn't learn their fucking lesson
I totally get this sentiment and respect it but I personally don't really feel like any of the problems with the ST or like, Disney-era Star Wars are actually from "we have a lot of projects", they all stem from "we didn't have a plan for the Sequel trilogy"
I think Solo coming out like 5 months after the previous Star Wars movie is often pointed to as a big miss for them, and the reason they postponed some of the TV projects
It felt like, didn't we just have one of these?
sure, but are there any release dates for this other than Rogue Squadron in 2023 and the Andor series??? Legit question, I didn't see any but haven't dug in
I remember and acknowledge that sentiment but personally have a pretty hard time thinking that was all them "putting out content too fast"
some of it for sure was but a big part of that was an amalgamation of circumstance, they were on the back of a shitload of (unwarranted) bad blood from a very vocal part of the fan base thanks to TLJ and then put out another star wars movie like a fucking WEEK after they put out Infinity War!!! So yeah a scheduler at Disney should probably be fired but I still don't think that's a "too many projects" problem, if that makes sense
I'm glad the Mandalorian works for people but I keep checking in on that show and I'm just...not connecting with it at all, and I'm getting sort of the same feeling from the huge slate of shows they just announced, where it feels like they're definitely pandering to someone, and it's not me. And that's fine! It's just a bummer because I came out of Force Awakens excited for new Star Wars stuff, and I loved Last Jedi, and since then, it's been a parade of Star Wars stuff I either bounce right off or hate, and even the cool projects have like, garbage people attached
The idea that the sequel trilogy needed to be clear planned out perfectly ahead of time and that’s why it failed seems absurd to me. Plenty of sequels or trilogies have only the barest idea where they might go. Hell, Star Wars was just a movie that got some surprise sequels.
The Disney era has been turbulent because they set unreasonable deadlines for movie ideas that amounted to “what if X was the main character”. Grey Ghost could very well be right. This looks like they didn’t learn their lesson and I’m losing my mind watching people ignore it and insisting that the problem was that the ST were movies and “Star Wars works better as Tv anyway”.
I think it's really just gonna be like how the books are. Some good, some bad, some you'll never know what they are cause the subject matter doesn't appeal to you, no matter how much your friend says the Darth plagius book is good
Oh lord I forgot they threatened us with a Bill Burr reprise, can his character and Gina Carranos character and Rosario Dawsons character all get lured into an airlock or some sort of sewage processing unit
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HawkstoneDon't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered Userregular
My hot take is this is too many Star Wars shows and they didn't learn their fucking lesson
I saw the same take in the Marvel thread, but we have to stop to consider they have an entire streaming service to stock that obviously has one of the all time great back catalogue but has VERY little new content. Also it isn't like these are all releasing at the same time or even the same years.
My hot take is this is too many Star Wars shows and they didn't learn their fucking lesson
I saw the same take in the Marvel thread, but we have to stop to consider they have an entire streaming service to stock that obviously has one of the all time great back catalogue but has VERY little new content. Also it isn't like these are all releasing at the same time or even the same years.
Yes, this. I'd much prefer a new Star Wars or Marvel thing to check out on D+ every 3-5 months, versus the complete and utter waste having 1 year free of it has been so far where it was Mandalorian... 6 months pass... Hamilton... 6 months pass... Mandalorian season 2, etc.
The idea that the sequel trilogy needed to be clear planned out perfectly ahead of time and that’s why it failed seems absurd to me. Plenty of sequels or trilogies have only the barest idea where they might go. Hell, Star Wars was just a movie that got some surprise sequels.
The Disney era has been turbulent because they set unreasonable deadlines for movie ideas that amounted to “what if X was the main character”. Grey Ghost could very well be right. This looks like they didn’t learn their lesson and I’m losing my mind watching people ignore it and insisting that the problem was that the ST were movies and “Star Wars works better as Tv anyway”.
Perfectly planned out? You’re right, that’s not what they needed
Some sort of outline or a rough sketch of where they were going, that everyone involved knew or was told about, before they started? And that wasn’t just “make more Star Wars”? That is what they needed
This and the Marvel announcement has me a bit overwhelmed and worried, but I hope they pull it off. It seems like a gambit to fill out Disney+ with exclusive shows and “killer apps”
Oh lord I forgot they threatened us with a Bill Burr reprise, can his character and Gina Carranos character and Rosario Dawsons character all get lured into an airlock or some sort of sewage processing unit
It seems like at best Rosario Dawson's mom might suck and the claims against her were baseless
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
The idea that the sequel trilogy needed to be clear planned out perfectly ahead of time and that’s why it failed seems absurd to me. Plenty of sequels or trilogies have only the barest idea where they might go. Hell, Star Wars was just a movie that got some surprise sequels.
The Disney era has been turbulent because they set unreasonable deadlines for movie ideas that amounted to “what if X was the main character”. Grey Ghost could very well be right. This looks like they didn’t learn their lesson and I’m losing my mind watching people ignore it and insisting that the problem was that the ST were movies and “Star Wars works better as Tv anyway”.
They didn’t need to be perfectly planned out, they needed to have a continuous flow of a story arc between directors to make them happen effectively. That OBVIOUSLY didn’t happen, that misalignment is why there’s so much whiplash between tlj and ros!! That’s not a deadline problem, that is 100% a “not everyone is on the same page here” problem.
The problem with the ST definitely wasn’t that they’re movies, star wars movies are obviously good (two of the ST movies are!), but pinning the failings of the ST on unreasonable deadlines really misses the mark for me.
If they had to have a longer title, Old Ben Kenobi, or Ben Kenobi, would have worked as well. That at least fits the theme of this being focused on his time in exile.
While watching ending bit in the newest episode I was thinkin' to myself, "Yeah, I think I dig the episodes where they don't wade knee deep in to fan service", and then
Boba deploys the seismic bomb
and I cheered a little, and felt more shame than I have in a long time... a long time.
Worth it though.
+6
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
While watching ending bit in the newest episode I was thinkin' to myself, "Yeah, I think I dig the episodes where they don't wade knee deep in to fan service", and then
Boba deploys the seismic bomb
and I cheered a little, and felt more shame than I have in a long time... a long time.
The idea that the sequel trilogy needed to be clear planned out perfectly ahead of time and that’s why it failed seems absurd to me. Plenty of sequels or trilogies have only the barest idea where they might go. Hell, Star Wars was just a movie that got some surprise sequels.
The Disney era has been turbulent because they set unreasonable deadlines for movie ideas that amounted to “what if X was the main character”. Grey Ghost could very well be right. This looks like they didn’t learn their lesson and I’m losing my mind watching people ignore it and insisting that the problem was that the ST were movies and “Star Wars works better as Tv anyway”.
They didn’t need to be perfectly planned out, they needed to have a continuous flow of a story arc between directors to make them happen effectively. That OBVIOUSLY didn’t happen, that misalignment is why there’s so much whiplash between tlj and ros!! That’s not a deadline problem, that is 100% a “not everyone is on the same page here” problem.
The problem with the ST definitely wasn’t that they’re movies, star wars movies are obviously good (two of the ST movies are!), but pinning the failings of the ST on unreasonable deadlines really misses the mark for me.
Yeah I disagree vehemently with all of this. Plenty of series have been planned out and still sucked shit and provably there are many series that have very little planning and manage to pull things together. A lot of what people consider to be the most odious parts of RoS were clearly set in JJ's mind right from the beginning. They were planned as much as anything. Palpantine may not have been locked in but everything we've seen suggests that he was in the back of JJ's mind the entire time. The redemption of Kylo Ren is likely what JJ planned to do with the character from the word "go". The other stuff people hated probably would have happened because they read like cynical executive decisions that tried to avoid controversy. A third series of terrible decisions stem from JJ's overall writing style and wouldn't have been saved by a plan.
JJ's worst inclinations come out in droves in RoS. Usually a writers worst contingencies come out when they are rushed and need to make a deadline. JJ replacing the previous director with like two years to conclude the franchise and throwing out the entirety of the post production they had done up to that point was always going to make the movie harder to make.
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LasbrookIt takes a lot to make a stewWhen it comes to me and youRegistered Userregular
The idea that the sequel trilogy needed to be clear planned out perfectly ahead of time and that’s why it failed seems absurd to me. Plenty of sequels or trilogies have only the barest idea where they might go. Hell, Star Wars was just a movie that got some surprise sequels.
The Disney era has been turbulent because they set unreasonable deadlines for movie ideas that amounted to “what if X was the main character”. Grey Ghost could very well be right. This looks like they didn’t learn their lesson and I’m losing my mind watching people ignore it and insisting that the problem was that the ST were movies and “Star Wars works better as Tv anyway”.
They didn’t need to be perfectly planned out, they needed to have a continuous flow of a story arc between directors to make them happen effectively. That OBVIOUSLY didn’t happen, that misalignment is why there’s so much whiplash between tlj and ros!! That’s not a deadline problem, that is 100% a “not everyone is on the same page here” problem.
The problem with the ST definitely wasn’t that they’re movies, star wars movies are obviously good (two of the ST movies are!), but pinning the failings of the ST on unreasonable deadlines really misses the mark for me.
Yeah I disagree vehemently with all of this. Plenty of series have been planned out and still sucked shit and provably there are many series that have very little planning and manage to pull things together. A lot of what people consider to be the most odious parts of RoS were clearly set in JJ's mind right from the beginning. They were planned as much as anything. Palpantine may not have been locked in but everything we've seen suggests that he was in the back of JJ's mind the entire time. The redemption of Kylo Ren is likely what JJ planned to do with the character from the word "go". The other stuff people hated probably would have happened because they read like cynical executive decisions that tried to avoid controversy. A third series of terrible decisions stem from JJ's overall writing style and wouldn't have been saved by a plan.
JJ's worst inclinations come out in droves in RoS. Usually a writers worst contingencies come out when they are rushed and need to make a deadline. JJ replacing the previous director with like two years to conclude the franchise and throwing out the entirety of the post production they had done up to that point was always going to make the movie harder to make.
Well yes, the Sequels as a whole being empty of any real point or story arc is also a problem, no one is really denying that.
The idea that the sequel trilogy needed to be clear planned out perfectly ahead of time and that’s why it failed seems absurd to me. Plenty of sequels or trilogies have only the barest idea where they might go. Hell, Star Wars was just a movie that got some surprise sequels.
The Disney era has been turbulent because they set unreasonable deadlines for movie ideas that amounted to “what if X was the main character”. Grey Ghost could very well be right. This looks like they didn’t learn their lesson and I’m losing my mind watching people ignore it and insisting that the problem was that the ST were movies and “Star Wars works better as Tv anyway”.
They didn’t need to be perfectly planned out, they needed to have a continuous flow of a story arc between directors to make them happen effectively. That OBVIOUSLY didn’t happen, that misalignment is why there’s so much whiplash between tlj and ros!! That’s not a deadline problem, that is 100% a “not everyone is on the same page here” problem.
The problem with the ST definitely wasn’t that they’re movies, star wars movies are obviously good (two of the ST movies are!), but pinning the failings of the ST on unreasonable deadlines really misses the mark for me.
Yeah I disagree vehemently with all of this. Plenty of series have been planned out and still sucked shit and provably there are many series that have very little planning and manage to pull things together. A lot of what people consider to be the most odious parts of RoS were clearly set in JJ's mind right from the beginning. They were planned as much as anything. Palpantine may not have been locked in but everything we've seen suggests that he was in the back of JJ's mind the entire time. The redemption of Kylo Ren is likely what JJ planned to do with the character from the word "go". The other stuff people hated probably would have happened because they read like cynical executive decisions that tried to avoid controversy. A third series of terrible decisions stem from JJ's overall writing style and wouldn't have been saved by a plan.
JJ's worst inclinations come out in droves in RoS. Usually a writers worst contingencies come out when they are rushed and need to make a deadline. JJ replacing the previous director with like two years to conclude the franchise and throwing out the entirety of the post production they had done up to that point was always going to make the movie harder to make.
Ok! I vehemently disagree with most of this too - but that's the spirit of it all!
I think that saying "many series have been planned out and still sucked shit" is a lot like saying "many bridges have blueprints and still collapse." Like yes, obviously that's true, but that doesn't suddenly mean that having an organized plan in place ahead of time isn't helpful??? Also there are many situations where a studio has LOTS of things in production (most!!! studios!!!!) and those things don't end up sucking - and that's without factoring in the fact that we literally don't know the timeline of any of these releases, just that they're planning them.
In my opinion, if you have a plan from the beginning, it's way less likely that you wind up having to replace the third director because you're suddenly immediately concerned with where the third movie is going after the public reaction to TLJ, because you have a clearly established outline that everyone is down to follow from the jump. Could you make a great movie if every movie had had five years between release? Sure, probably. But like, the OT came out three years apart from one another. So did the PT! So I don't know if you can just pin it all on "Disney tried to do too much" when their release pipeline wasn't really that different from the other trilogies in the series before, and I think it's pretty wild to not think a coherent plan would have helped in some capacity.
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DAMMIT HUBRIS YOU GOT ME AGAIN
Since I was, like, 9, yeah.
This is how liberty dies, to thunderous franchises.
Heartwarming, yes
But also the most surreal thing
Imagine telling someone from 2010 that this would happen
Maybe he’ll be really good!
We’ll all be like, yup Lucas’s direction was the issue
The writing was also not good
{Twitter, Everybody's doing it. }{Writing and Story Blog}
I totally get this sentiment and respect it but I personally don't really feel like any of the problems with the ST or like, Disney-era Star Wars are actually from "we have a lot of projects", they all stem from "we didn't have a plan for the Sequel trilogy"
I think Solo coming out like 5 months after the previous Star Wars movie is often pointed to as a big miss for them, and the reason they postponed some of the TV projects
It felt like, didn't we just have one of these?
I think it was less that they didn't have a plan and more "let's give this franchise over to a guy who has never once crafted a good story on his own"
Also is it just me or is it a bit surreal that Patty Jenkins director of academy award winning monster apparently grew up on books like the Bacta war and is now doing rogue squadron
Patty Jenkins knows that corran is allergic to selonians
That doesn't include the most recent season Clone Wars, all of Rebels, or the Mandalorian in its evaluation. Resistance disappointed me personally, but is pretty deliberately aimed at children (relative to Rebels and Clone Wars).
All in all, that's a pretty good success rate, I think it's produced more good SW content than bad
obviously I will change my mind if they're like "all these shows are coming out in the next 3 years" but I just don't see that being the case
sure, but are there any release dates for this other than Rogue Squadron in 2023 and the Andor series??? Legit question, I didn't see any but haven't dug in
I remember and acknowledge that sentiment but personally have a pretty hard time thinking that was all them "putting out content too fast"
some of it for sure was but a big part of that was an amalgamation of circumstance, they were on the back of a shitload of (unwarranted) bad blood from a very vocal part of the fan base thanks to TLJ and then put out another star wars movie like a fucking WEEK after they put out Infinity War!!! So yeah a scheduler at Disney should probably be fired but I still don't think that's a "too many projects" problem, if that makes sense
e: typo
The Disney era has been turbulent because they set unreasonable deadlines for movie ideas that amounted to “what if X was the main character”. Grey Ghost could very well be right. This looks like they didn’t learn their lesson and I’m losing my mind watching people ignore it and insisting that the problem was that the ST were movies and “Star Wars works better as Tv anyway”.
I saw the same take in the Marvel thread, but we have to stop to consider they have an entire streaming service to stock that obviously has one of the all time great back catalogue but has VERY little new content. Also it isn't like these are all releasing at the same time or even the same years.
Yes, this. I'd much prefer a new Star Wars or Marvel thing to check out on D+ every 3-5 months, versus the complete and utter waste having 1 year free of it has been so far where it was Mandalorian... 6 months pass... Hamilton... 6 months pass... Mandalorian season 2, etc.
Perfectly planned out? You’re right, that’s not what they needed
Some sort of outline or a rough sketch of where they were going, that everyone involved knew or was told about, before they started? And that wasn’t just “make more Star Wars”? That is what they needed
This and the Marvel announcement has me a bit overwhelmed and worried, but I hope they pull it off. It seems like a gambit to fill out Disney+ with exclusive shows and “killer apps”
It seems like at best Rosario Dawson's mom might suck and the claims against her were baseless
I cannot bring myself to be all that excited or upset about it.
I will be dusty old bones before season 3 of Mando probably.
They didn’t need to be perfectly planned out, they needed to have a continuous flow of a story arc between directors to make them happen effectively. That OBVIOUSLY didn’t happen, that misalignment is why there’s so much whiplash between tlj and ros!! That’s not a deadline problem, that is 100% a “not everyone is on the same page here” problem.
The problem with the ST definitely wasn’t that they’re movies, star wars movies are obviously good (two of the ST movies are!), but pinning the failings of the ST on unreasonable deadlines really misses the mark for me.
this is the tiniest nit to pick but OBI-WAN KENOBI is not as good of a title as just OBI-WAN
100%
If they had to have a longer title, Old Ben Kenobi, or Ben Kenobi, would have worked as well. That at least fits the theme of this being focused on his time in exile.
and I cheered a little, and felt more shame than I have in a long time... a long time.
Worth it though.
Edit: added spoiler tags
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Pretty cool matte finish on that thing, wonder how much Tamiya clear coat he had to use
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
Yeah I disagree vehemently with all of this. Plenty of series have been planned out and still sucked shit and provably there are many series that have very little planning and manage to pull things together. A lot of what people consider to be the most odious parts of RoS were clearly set in JJ's mind right from the beginning. They were planned as much as anything. Palpantine may not have been locked in but everything we've seen suggests that he was in the back of JJ's mind the entire time. The redemption of Kylo Ren is likely what JJ planned to do with the character from the word "go". The other stuff people hated probably would have happened because they read like cynical executive decisions that tried to avoid controversy. A third series of terrible decisions stem from JJ's overall writing style and wouldn't have been saved by a plan.
JJ's worst inclinations come out in droves in RoS. Usually a writers worst contingencies come out when they are rushed and need to make a deadline. JJ replacing the previous director with like two years to conclude the franchise and throwing out the entirety of the post production they had done up to that point was always going to make the movie harder to make.
Steam
Well yes, the Sequels as a whole being empty of any real point or story arc is also a problem, no one is really denying that.
Ok! I vehemently disagree with most of this too - but that's the spirit of it all!
I think that saying "many series have been planned out and still sucked shit" is a lot like saying "many bridges have blueprints and still collapse." Like yes, obviously that's true, but that doesn't suddenly mean that having an organized plan in place ahead of time isn't helpful??? Also there are many situations where a studio has LOTS of things in production (most!!! studios!!!!) and those things don't end up sucking - and that's without factoring in the fact that we literally don't know the timeline of any of these releases, just that they're planning them.
In my opinion, if you have a plan from the beginning, it's way less likely that you wind up having to replace the third director because you're suddenly immediately concerned with where the third movie is going after the public reaction to TLJ, because you have a clearly established outline that everyone is down to follow from the jump. Could you make a great movie if every movie had had five years between release? Sure, probably. But like, the OT came out three years apart from one another. So did the PT! So I don't know if you can just pin it all on "Disney tried to do too much" when their release pipeline wasn't really that different from the other trilogies in the series before, and I think it's pretty wild to not think a coherent plan would have helped in some capacity.