The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread

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  • BremenBremen Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    So looking at the stats so far today, the US has overtaken both Italy and Spain in new cases per day (by a significant margin... 7500 vs 6200 and 6500). Our death count is a lot lower but I assume that's just because the US infection is on a...what? week? two week? lag compared to those countries. And the fact that we've already overtaken them in new cases per day means that in a week, when those people just getting diagnosed are dying, things are going to be dire. In two weeks Trump's "beautiful churches" are going to be full of fucking mourners (I mean, I hope people will mourn at home but you get my point).

    As previously mentioned, confirmed cases is probably a better indication of widespread testing than the actual spread of the virus. Deaths is a somewhat more reliable indicator of spread (only somewhat because people can and have died of coronavirus without a clinical test and only been discovered posthumously), but also delayed by several weeks, so the US' lower death rate probably just means there were a lot fewer cases here 2-3 weeks ago. So unfortunately the truth is that there's a lot of fog of war going on here - it could be social distancing is paying off and the spread is already dying down, or it could be that massive numbers are infected and will soon overwhelm available healthcare. Given the uncertainty, people are reacting very differently, but I personally think "prepare for the worst and be grateful if it doesn't happen" is the way to go.

    Bremen on
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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    I've never ordered grocery delivery before and now I have to figure out how to do it for my mom at a time when all the services are overloaded. Instacart has no delivery times at all available from any stores in her area.

    Uh, shit, well I'm out of ideas. How do I do this??

    Ethics aside, my wife have resorted to trying to hit from all angles for open windows.

    Use Amazon's service. Whole foods now has curb side pickup. Shipt(?) For target was who delivered for us today (they have the best policy wrt item subs - they text directly).

    Also the Woodbridge Wegmans might do curbside pickup, plus they sell booze.

    RedTide on
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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Look up @Hakkekage

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  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    We've had some success with meal delivery services as well. We currently get a Freshly box once a week and that's been working out fine, they deliver pre-cooked meals if you're into that.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I'm already seeing hot takes from holier-than-thou rural dwellers dunking on city living. And I just don't even know what to say to that.

    "Nothing" has been my go-to reply for now, because it's dumb on so many levels I can't even figure out where to start.

    Ask them how often they get the regular flu out in rural country.

  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    Yeah Amazon Fresh has zero available slots in the next 2 weeks

    Gonna look at direct from Costco and Wegmans

    thanks guys

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Some idiot went to a grocery story and intentionally started coughing on food. No clue if she has the virus but they had to throw out $35,000 worth of food when groceries are running low on stock.

    A dude was just arrested for, I shit you not, terrorism for doing this to a grocery store employee after saying he had covid

    UK has said that threatening with coughs like this will get you brought up on terrorism charges. People were doing it to emergency services workers. There's been a rash of inexplicable evil alongside this, an ambulance service in Kent had six of it's vehicles tyres slashed.

    Teens doing it in shops, part teens being teen arseholes and the KO Boomer virus thing I guess - you've got to come down hard on this kind of thing, but I think I'd picked a different crime to charge people under though, rather than putting the idea of generational bio-terrorism into people's minds.

    Call it what it is, it's using the threat of someones life to coerce them into something and spreading even more panic.

    It's fucking terrorism. Fuck the assholes doing it, let them rot.

    This is on the same level as saying that talking about racism is the real reason it exists.

    I'm thinking more along the lines of the trucks into pedestrians tactics that suddenly spiked after the first one revealed that this was a strategy that was difficult to stop without physical barriers being erected.
    Terrorism charges seem to prime these things to go global rather than others.

    I think this is kind of useless handwringing.

    The efficacy of the act will spur copycats, not the name of the crime given. Dude with a match in his shoe got called a terrorist and I didn't see a spurt of other shoematchers.

    But in this case the efficacy will be impossible to measure. There's scientific papers that have been quashed for a similar reason - whilst how you homebrewed your own SARS without needing any of the usually recognised licenses, is fascinating. A: You really shouldn't have and B: Don't fucking publish a 'how to' guide?!

    The efficacy of causing panic, wasting food, forcing resources to be deverted to areas they would otherwise not be used in because some dipshit wanted to go viral for the luls or cause people to freak out? That's easy to measure. How many people have to get quarantined and tested now because of that single persons act, that may cause a delay in service later for someone who likewise needs it? Pretty easy to measure my dude.

    And I think you're underestimating the willingness and insulting the intelligence of every person on this planet if you think nobody realized the consequences of this until someone got charged with a crime. I also think you're downplaying the severity of someone coughing on an entire section of produce with a disease with this kind of death rate.

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, as they say.

    Multiple counts of public endangerment, property damage (I assume they didn't buy the fruit afterwards) can easily merit a similar punishment if you want to make it clear to the perpetrator the extent of what they have done.
    Only reason to bump it up to terrorism is because you need the additional powers (are they part of a larger network, who may be a flight risk?) or because you want to raise the profile of the event.

    Charging with terrorism now means you've got to show motive too, whilst actually charging for the things they did - which could cause panic, is a lot easier to prosecute.
    As for efficacy? I think you'd have a hard time showing the results of that event, if this was done in a place that already has the virus spreading amongst the community (and hence why it was an actual terrorist attack rather than something akin to a false bomb threat, which is a different crime).

    Not saying go easy on them, just saying that I think that specific charge was a mistake here.

    Tastyfish on
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  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    The US parks service has released their official social distancing guide for national parks.



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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    Yeah Amazon Fresh has zero available slots in the next 2 weeks

    Gonna look at direct from Costco and Wegmans

    thanks guys

    As per my wife for @Hakkekage and whoever else:

    Stock your cart and check periodically throughout the day - be ready to put more in (Prime will drop your items if it’s not available). Prime Now resets slots at midnight. I haven’t figured out Shipt (through Target) but I randomly got a slot for tomorrow around 1pm today. I was checking about every 20-30 minutes.

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Grislo wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    Some idiot went to a grocery story and intentionally started coughing on food. No clue if she has the virus but they had to throw out $35,000 worth of food when groceries are running low on stock.

    A dude was just arrested for, I shit you not, terrorism for doing this to a grocery store employee after saying he had covid

    Last time I was at the grocery store this big fat motherfucker was waddling around doing an exaggerated cough, as loud and obnoxious as he could, right out into the open and especially if anyone was near him or noticed him in any way. He was giddy as a pig in shit about the whole thing too. Some people are just disgusting, ignorant fucking assholes. It's a shame the ones we could do without aren't the ones being culled by this pandemic.

    No, dude.

    Yeah, you're right. My bad. It just made me so furious, but that's no reason to be evil.

    ElvenshaeNobeardCalicanever dieWACriminalGrislo
  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    I've never ordered grocery delivery before and now I have to figure out how to do it for my mom at a time when all the services are overloaded. Instacart has no delivery times at all available from any stores in her area.

    Uh, shit, well I'm out of ideas. How do I do this??

    If the grocery store has a website, it can often be done there.

    If they don't, just call up the store.

    It's actually super similar to ordering a pizza.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Trump at the daily briefing: "Beautiful day. Very good what you're doing...all those empty seats. Never seen it like that...oh boy. How the world has changed...but it's going to end up being better than ever."

    Why do I do this to myself.

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  • TynnanTynnan seldom correct, never unsure Registered User regular
    @dispatch.o brought up an important point about ventilators in the Updates thread that I wanted to explain a bit more about:
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    dispatch.o wrote: »
    It's a bit like splitting a treatment of antibiotics among multiple patients because you don't have enough. You're reducing the odds one survives significantly to improve the odds of another by an unknown quantity.

    It was developed back in 2006(?) If I recall as a theoretical using dummy test lungs as a bridge therapy during a triage event where more ventilators would be available within hours.

    These people are on ventilation for weeks and there are no additional ventilators arriving anytime soon. Triage will be necessary and we're all going to be really unhappy about it - especially the population of people who firmly believe that we have the best most expensive fix everything healthcare in the world.

    As I said before, they're already showing up at hospital entrances and making demands and assaulting people. Someone will bring a gun during this thing. They've already been at my hospital threatening people with knives and cornering smaller staff in the garage and elevators.

    One ventilator for two patients has actually been used, successfully, on human patients (once, anyway). At least according to that nurse who explained the technique.

    I don't think the comparison to antibiotics as a good analogy, because it's well known that if you don't take enough antibiotic, it doesn't kill the disease it just makes it antibiotic-resistant. Ventilator's just give you oxygen. I can see sharing a ventilator doing secondary damage to one of the patients, but it won't kill someone to not have the ventilator settings perfect for both patients, right?

    Yes. It will eventually cause a great deal of harm to ventilate someone with incorrect settings.

    I know there are physicians and CRNAs on the forum who can more credibly provide reasons.

    Pneumonia can do so many things to your lung function. Pulmonologists, anesthesiologists and CRNAs spend a significant amount of time working on treatment plans for people with compromised lung function.

    Edit: It's one of those things that seems like it should be simple so no one can be blamed for thinking that. It's in fact an entire branch of medicine and is really not understood by people who aren't involved in it.

    Even other doctors and nurses legitimately have no idea and ask what the big deal is.

    One reason (just one!) to expound on this important point about ventilators: your lungs are one of two organ systems that regulate blood pH (the other being the kidneys). When you exhale, you remove CO2 from your body. Your blood pH is regulated by a system which uses dissolved CO2 (The bicarbonate buffer system), which reacts CO2 with water to form an acid. If you breathe too fast, you remove CO2 from your blood too quickly and as a result you will increase blood pH. Healthy people can tolerate a bit of this without issue, but prolonged hypocapnia (decreased CO2 in the blood) can cause problems in sick patients. The converse is also true - breathing too slowly removes too little CO2 and therefore acidifies the blood. Also a problem. A big reason that anesthesiologists and pulmonary/critical care doctors are paid so much is because they work like crazy to develop skill in balancing these systems. A patient isn't simply "put on vent" - the rate and depth of breaths is carefully controlled so that the appropriate balance is maintained, and this can (will) change throughout a patient's time on the vent. Layer on the condition of pneumonia and things get very, very complicated. (Source -- I have a PhD related to heart failure, which is a disease that intimately involves the lungs)

    All of this is to contribute to the point that the problem isn't simply the number of ventilators. You need highly trained personnel to control them, or the vents will be of little use.

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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    The continuous lack of available tests is astounding to me.

    Roche is at least partially to blame. The dominant test relies on machine that runs on a lysis buffer that is patented and whose recepture is not completely known. This lysis buffer is in extremely short supply and Roche is refusing to release the formula. It's insanity.

    ...And why hasn't Roche been forced to turn over the formula? Fuck them and fuck their patent.

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Wholefoofs is staffing up and training all their people to be Prime Shoppers. When you're ordering prime now, try to limit to either Wholefoofs or Fresh items, you are much less likely to have your delivery happen if you have some of each in the cart.

    AbsoluteZero
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Wholefoofs is staffing up and training all their people to be Prime Shoppers. When you're ordering prime now, try to limit to either Wholefoofs or Fresh items, you are much less likely to have your delivery happen if you have some of each in the cart.

    I can’t wait for them to merge this

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I will never not call it Wholefoofs now

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Trump at the daily briefing: "Beautiful day. Very good what you're doing...all those empty seats. Never seen it like that...oh boy. How the world has changed...but it's going to end up being better than ever."

    Why do I do this to myself.

    Good fucking lord are you serious?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    The continuous lack of available tests is astounding to me.

    Roche is at least partially to blame. The dominant test relies on machine that runs on a lysis buffer that is patented and whose recepture is not completely known. This lysis buffer is in extremely short supply and Roche is refusing to release the formula. It's insanity.

    ...And why hasn't Roche been forced to turn over the formula? Fuck them and fuck their patent.

    Because capitalism, because grifting, because Trump won't invoke the act that would require them to do so... take your pick. I imagine they're going to keep this up as long as they can get away with it. Hell, I'd check how much in "donations" his campaign recently just got from Big Pharma and see where it's all coming from.

    JaysonFour on
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  • HacksawHacksaw J. Duggan Esq. Wrestler at LawRegistered User regular
    Terrible comment from Trump.

    And completely unsurprising.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Terrible comment from Trump.

    And completely unsurprising.

    It isn't but like that's straight like from a bad guys god damn evil monologue. It's suggesting all the deaths in america will make the country a better place, from the fucking president during a god damn pandemic I can't even.

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  • WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    Right before I left work, got called into a meeting to find out we might have an actual positive test result on staff. Waiting on the test result. So somebody t work was sick enough to a actually get tested in this city.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    EPA is suspending environmental regulation because sure what good is a crisis if we can't openly pollute.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    (I'm still here)

    The depressing thing about testing being so limiting is that what we actually need to get people safely back to work is mass amounts of testing. A 90% accurate test, with a 24 hour turnaround time (far worse than what exists) done to 20% of workers each day makes a busy factory as safe as sheltering in place at home in terms of infections being able to spread. (Infectivity peaks about 6 days after infection with about 1 person being infected before that, and 1.5 over the subsequent 8 days)

    The number of people who can safely work on a date is the number of tests we can do multiplied by 5. The tests dont even need to be super great, or super quick, or done in a smart way. You just have to make sure noone with a positive test works for 2 weeks after it, and that noone returns or enters youfacility without a test.

    Testing is not actually expensive or slow or complex, it just needs to ramp and we need to start deploying it protectively outside the hospital.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Congrats to all my fellow Americans, we are #1.

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

    Juet eclipsed Italy and China in one fell swoop.

    Good lord.

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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Congrats to all my fellow Americans, we are #1.

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

    Juet eclipsed Italy and China in one fell swoop.

    Good lord.

    How long ago was it when the US just squeaked in at number 9? Feels like a week ago, but the way time moves lately it could have been a year ago.

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    EPA is suspending environmental regulation because sure what good is a crisis if we can't openly pollute.

    Wait what? I know they are comically evil currently, but did they even bother with a justification or just roll it out there and fuck everybody?

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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Congrats to all my fellow Americans, we are #1.

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

    Juet eclipsed Italy and China in one fell swoop.

    Good lord.

    To be fair, China seems to have just completely stopped testing or at least reporting their tests.

    Still terrifying growth rate though.

    Thawmus on
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Congrats to all my fellow Americans, we are #1.

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

    Juet eclipsed Italy and China in one fell swoop.

    Good lord.

    To be fair, China seems to have just completely stopped testing or at least reporting their tests.

    Still terrifying growth rate though.

    Yeah, there's no way China has had zero new cases in weeks.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    The US will be 20% of all world cases by Saturday

    Greater NYC will be ~10% of all world cases then too

    moniker
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Congrats to all my fellow Americans, we are #1.

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

    Juet eclipsed Italy and China in one fell swoop.

    Good lord.

    To be fair, China seems to have just completely stopped testing or at least reporting their tests.

    Still terrifying growth rate though.

    Yeah, there's no way China has had zero new cases in weeks.

    China is reporting more than zero they’re on a different day as well

    Captain Inertia on
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    The US will be 20% of all world cases by Saturday

    Greater NYC will be ~10% of all world cases then too

    Much like the line about cops being domestic abusers, this is only reported cases

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    China has been reporting like 40-60 cases a day, mostly imported, but some domestic transmission.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    Preacher was warned for this.
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    EPA is suspending environmental regulation because sure what good is a crisis if we can't openly pollute.

    Wait what? I know they are comically evil currently, but did they even bother with a justification or just roll it out there and fuck everybody?

    Didn't see a justification, just they were doing it. Was a tweet.

    ceres on
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  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    I got laid off. Hopefully we can get back online in a couple weeks but I’m not very happy

    CelestialBadgerspool32
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I got laid off. Hopefully we can get back online in a couple weeks but I’m not very happy

    That super sucks. I’m sorry. Hopefully this bill passes and you get some relief.

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    EPA is suspending environmental regulation because sure what good is a crisis if we can't openly pollute.

    Wait what? I know they are comically evil currently, but did they even bother with a justification or just roll it out there and fuck everybody?

    Didn't see a justification, just they were doing it. Was a tweet.

    I mean, the justification is simple, and I'd honestly buy it from another administration: EPA inspectors move between a bunch of different communities, in short periods of time, and are at high risk for being transmission vectors.

    Rhesus Positive
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Congrats to all my fellow Americans, we are #1.

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

    Juet eclipsed Italy and China in one fell swoop.

    Good lord.

    To be fair, China seems to have just completely stopped testing or at least reporting their tests.

    Still terrifying growth rate though.

    Yeah, there's no way China has had zero new cases in weeks.

    China is reporting more than zero they’re on a different day as well

    Which is a nonsense number. Though whether more or less nonsense than ours, who knows.

    Captain InertiaFencingsax
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Trump at the daily briefing: "Beautiful day. Very good what you're doing...all those empty seats. Never seen it like that...oh boy. How the world has changed...but it's going to end up being better than ever."

    Why do I do this to myself.

    Good fucking lord are you serious?

    The White House press room should be turned back into a pool.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
    TicaldfjamKayne Red RobeFencingsaxmonikerJaysonFourKoopahTroopahArdol
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Sure, I just had to remember to look at “yesterday” to see “today’s” number for China

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