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I preface all of this by saying I'm likely going way too far into the weeds.
I've got a Netgear 6790P that I use only as a dumb router (gateway?) because I have two Ubiquiti APs for wireless.
I'm debating buying a used EdgeRouter from /r/homelabsales or another site, to replace the Netgear; if only because it could/may provide more granular control for the APs. I don't need the wireless features of the Netgear router; which I believe was its main selling point at the time.
I'm not having issues with the Netgear device; other than it's old (I think I bought it around 2017/2018 but haven't checked the sticker on the unit).
Is this a needless money spend, or can I potentially see some useful changes/features?
minor incidentpublicly subsidized!privately profitable!Registered User, Transition Teamregular
I've also gone all in on Unifi. The Edgerouter is tempting because it's a great price when you can (easily) find used ones. But the Unifi system is just so slick and powerful. And also incredibly easy to expand as needed. You can do cool stuff like mix and match wired and wireless mesh APs, and pretty much everything in the ecosystem supports some flavor of PoE. I genuinely don't have a single complaint with the system in the 8 months or so I've been running it.
another member of the crowd goes down
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
The complaint is there's cool stuff that you might want to buy and that gets expensive.
One of their devices which provides the Unifi OS on the console.
EDIT: I would recommend it - all my networking is Unifi, it's great.
At a high level, I have net service come into the basement and go through a ONT or cable modem. From there, Ethernet runs to a wall mounted setup that has the 6790P, a 16-port wired switch, and a 4-port POE powered POE switch in the attic.
The bigger switch connects to my PiHole (also runs DNS), a dedicated wifi AP for my thermostat (don't get me started),and some other Ethernet connections. From there, an Ethernet run with POE injector connects to a AP-Pro on the first floor. The upstairs POE switch powers a U6-AP-Pro.
So I don't need the wifi features of a dream machine. That's why I'm leaning toward the EdgeRouter.
If there's enough difference in the software, I'll look for a Dream Machine instead but i likely won't use most of its features. Also the trashcan version I can't mount to the wall in the basement
Wrizzik on
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I think that's why they were recommending the Express. Yeah it has Wi-Fi, but it acts like a baby version of a Dream Machine, so it fully integrates with the unifi platform without being $350+.
Every time I watch a video to learn about networking, the guy in the video ends up being like,
"IF YOU'RE LIKE ME, YOU'RE GONNA WANT A 42-PORT SWITCH, A LOAD BALANCER, HARDWARE FIREWALL, A DEDICATED DHCP SERVER... Y'KNOW WHAT? LEMME JUST GIVE YOU A TOUR OF MY PERSONAL DATA CLOSET..."
I can understand how a business might need all that stuff, but what the hell are people doing with all that shit in their homes?
I mean, my home network is just my desktop computer, my phone, and a couple of smart tvs all hooked up to the same wi-fi from my ISP's router.
RT800 on
+2
minor incidentpublicly subsidized!privately profitable!Registered User, Transition Teamregular
Every time I watch a video to learn about networking, the guy in the video ends up being like,
"IF YOU'RE LIKE ME, YOU'RE GONNA WANT A 42-PORT SWITCH, A LOAD BALANCER, HARDWARE FIREWALL, A DEDICATED DHCP SERVER... Y'KNOW WHAT? LEMME JUST GIVE YOU A TOUR OF MY PERSONAL DATA CLOSET..."
I can understand how a business might need all that stuff, but what the hell are people doing with all that shit in their homes?
I mean, my home network is just my desktop computer, my phone, and a couple of smart tvs all hooked up to the same wi-fi from my ISP's router.
Quick shot of my perfectly normal home network topology:
I spent a bit on hardware so I can plug into a Verizon ONT (optical network terminal) or Xfinity cable modem.
I know a few people who mess with virtualization or want to have distributed gaming on their network (i.e. run games on virtual machines while the GPU hardware is in a network closet).
Others are messing with or learning SEC+ /cybersecurity and they want a dev environment (like Network Chuck on YT)
But for the most part, home networks are not standard.
Companies like TMo and ATT are trying to push "all wireless networking" thanks to 5G. Which is the antithesis of the networks you see.
If you have kids or IoT stuff the number of connected devices can climb rapidly. When I finished my basement I borrowed some network cable tools from my uncle. "Why not just use WiFi?" he asked. "Well we have over 40 things on the network so I hard wire everything that can be hard wired and then all the other crap finds a place to connect on the wifi mesh APs which have one hardwired AP per floor. I think there are four network switches scattered around?
Every time I watch a video to learn about networking, the guy in the video ends up being like,
"IF YOU'RE LIKE ME, YOU'RE GONNA WANT A 42-PORT SWITCH, A LOAD BALANCER, HARDWARE FIREWALL, A DEDICATED DHCP SERVER... Y'KNOW WHAT? LEMME JUST GIVE YOU A TOUR OF MY PERSONAL DATA CLOSET..."
I can understand how a business might need all that stuff, but what the hell are people doing with all that shit in their homes?
I mean, my home network is just my desktop computer, my phone, and a couple of smart tvs all hooked up to the same wi-fi from my ISP's router.
So, I have to laugh a bit at that, as you're running a "dedicated DHCP server" - because DHCP is the protocol for assigning IP addresses on your network. But if you mean a dedicated DNS server, well...I run a Pi-Hole alongside unbound on my network, and I can tell you from experience how amazing it is that ads are blocked at the network level (and doing my resolution in-house means no worrying about upstream providers.)
And as was pointed out, it doesn't take long to get some serious traffic on the network with consoles streaming devices, computers, smart devices, etc. Not to mention that having things like NAS can be nice as well.
Edit: Also, never use a router from your ISP. You want a clean delineation between what's on their side of the fence and what's on yours.
I run a Pi-Hole alongside unbound on my network, and I can tell you from experience how amazing it is that ads are blocked at the network level
I was actually watching a video just yesterday explaining how to do exactly this when my internet suddenly disconnected for like an hour.
Very mysterious.
Very conveniently mysterious. *glances around*
Yes - you want to have clear demarcation between what is your network and what is the provider's. When you let your provider control a key part of your network infrastructure, you start blurring that line - and blurring what they can control.
Edit: Also, the units the providers supply are not the best, and thus having your own router lets you supply gear that better suits your needs.
SolyspPreviously Kane Red RobeRegistered Userregular
Especially if the fuckers are renting anything to you. Buy your own modem and router if that's the case. If they aren't charging you for the hardware then you can probably get by with their modem but whatever router situation they're providing is almost certainly worse than even a middle of the road device you can pick up from Wal-Mart.
I've currently got two Unifi APs handling wifi in the house. I'm debating adding a third to cover some low spots (no dead spots).
I currently have 2 POE injectors for the APs. If I add a 3rd AP, is that the critical mass for adding a POE switch instead?
One of the injectors powers a POE powered unmanaged switch in my attic.
Rough topology is:
"Modem" -> Router -> unmanaged normal 8-port switch -> attic switch (POE)
The non-POE switch has some other connections and not just the POE switch.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
You can have as many APs with injectors as you want, afaik, as long as the router can support it. I know you were looking at the EdgeRouter but you're mixing things together. It'll work! But you're going to use separate apps to control your network instead of integrating it together.
Things have turned a bit on the Unifi Express. It's slower than people would like and seems a bit crash prone. So in your case this is what I would do if I were you:
What's the current recommendation for mesh networks? I have a fairly wide house and a normal wireless router can't reach to the security cameras so I picked up the Google Wifi (this was over 4 years ago now). And the speed is starting to dip lately. Hooked up wired (which my pc is) I get around 550Mbps download speeds. Wireless barely breaks 80Mbps. It makes downloading stuff on my son's switch frustrating.
I currently own 4 Google wifi pods and it covers my house sufficiently. But if there are better ones that use less pods I'm okay with that.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
So before I jump into it, the Switch has a garbage Wi-Fi antenna. If you have a port available, plug it into the router when you need to download to it.
If you want to go cheap and easy, TP-Link has a good series of mesh systems called Deco. They're less expensive than some of the comparable Eero units and more stable than Velop and Orbi. There's a lot of sinophobia over TP-Link because they report data back to their servers which are in China, but so far there's little to suggest they're sending anything but diagnostic data and, really, I'm not sure I trust them any less than Amazon, Netgear, or Linksys.
That said... Can you run wires? Have you already? Because I would love to introduce you to the world of real networking with Ubiquiti. They're powerful, easy to set up, fun to tinker with (if you're into such things), and unlike the other companies they don't nickel and dime you with monthly charges for features that should be included.
I did run a line from my router to my office. It's about 75 feet. But running a cable all around the house I don't know if I can. I am not handy enough and getting that one line took way too long lol. I have two switches (networking). One out from the modem and then ran a line from it to my TV room for my consoles.
And it's not just the Switch. YouTube videos on my TV upstairs (like 10 ft from the router) start at 360p. My phone takes forever to download and update apps lol.
I don't mind TP-Link even if they run diags in China. I'm already using Google and I'm sure they harvest a whole lot of my data. Are they going to give me more speed than my Google Wifi pods? I'm sure these ones are Gen 1 too.
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Oh absolutely they will, yeah. If you want quick and easy, I'd look maybe at this set. I don't know the exact layout of your house, but my thought would be one at the incoming connection, one on the other end of the line you ran so it's hard wired in, and then the third somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap.
Out of curiosity, you say the TV upstairs is 10 feet away. Do you have radiant heating?
Oh absolutely they will, yeah. If you want quick and easy, I'd look maybe at this set. I don't know the exact layout of your house, but my thought would be one at the incoming connection, one on the other end of the line you ran so it's hard wired in, and then the third somewhere in the middle to bridge the gap.
Out of curiosity, you say the TV upstairs is 10 feet away. Do you have radiant heating?
I do not have radiant heat but I've always wanted it lol. I'll add that to my wishlist, thank you!
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ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
No worries. I ask because for a while I couldn't figure out why certain homes couldn't pass Wi-Fi signal between floors until I looked up in one house that had an open ceiling and saw those water pipes flowing through.
You can have as many APs with injectors as you want, afaik, as long as the router can support it. I know you were looking at the EdgeRouter but you're mixing things together. It'll work! But you're going to use separate apps to control your network instead of integrating it together.
Things have turned a bit on the Unifi Express. It's slower than people would like and seems a bit crash prone. So in your case this is what I would do if I were you:
What's plugged in to that switch in the attic that can't just be plugged directly into the main switch?
Turns out my upstairs AP never properly recovered from a brief power outage we had back in August. So it wasn't on (or wasn't connected to the EdgeRouter at least) and it needed a firmware update. I power cycled it and it got up and running again.
That seems to have solved things in the short term. I haven't had any issues with the Ubiquiti router and have kept it up to date.
I didn't know you could get these speeds over wireless! Haha.
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SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
edited September 2024
One thing to keep in mind with the TPLinks (I have them too), they're mostly great, but I've had ethernet ports on two of the units just stop working. This is a known issue with these and it will be maddening to diagnose. For me, it caused all sorts of crazy issues with the NAS plugged into it. Just a heads up if it seems like there might be a ghost in your network, try changing the port you're using for anything physically connected to a node.
Posts
I've got a Netgear 6790P that I use only as a dumb router (gateway?) because I have two Ubiquiti APs for wireless.
I'm debating buying a used EdgeRouter from /r/homelabsales or another site, to replace the Netgear; if only because it could/may provide more granular control for the APs. I don't need the wireless features of the Netgear router; which I believe was its main selling point at the time.
I'm not having issues with the Netgear device; other than it's old (I think I bought it around 2017/2018 but haven't checked the sticker on the unit).
Is this a needless money spend, or can I potentially see some useful changes/features?
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
At a high level, I have net service come into the basement and go through a ONT or cable modem. From there, Ethernet runs to a wall mounted setup that has the 6790P, a 16-port wired switch, and a 4-port POE powered POE switch in the attic.
The bigger switch connects to my PiHole (also runs DNS), a dedicated wifi AP for my thermostat (don't get me started),and some other Ethernet connections. From there, an Ethernet run with POE injector connects to a AP-Pro on the first floor. The upstairs POE switch powers a U6-AP-Pro.
So I don't need the wifi features of a dream machine. That's why I'm leaning toward the EdgeRouter.
If there's enough difference in the software, I'll look for a Dream Machine instead but i likely won't use most of its features. Also the trashcan version I can't mount to the wall in the basement
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
"IF YOU'RE LIKE ME, YOU'RE GONNA WANT A 42-PORT SWITCH, A LOAD BALANCER, HARDWARE FIREWALL, A DEDICATED DHCP SERVER... Y'KNOW WHAT? LEMME JUST GIVE YOU A TOUR OF MY PERSONAL DATA CLOSET..."
I can understand how a business might need all that stuff, but what the hell are people doing with all that shit in their homes?
I mean, my home network is just my desktop computer, my phone, and a couple of smart tvs all hooked up to the same wi-fi from my ISP's router.
Quick shot of my perfectly normal home network topology:
I know a few people who mess with virtualization or want to have distributed gaming on their network (i.e. run games on virtual machines while the GPU hardware is in a network closet).
Others are messing with or learning SEC+ /cybersecurity and they want a dev environment (like Network Chuck on YT)
But for the most part, home networks are not standard.
Companies like TMo and ATT are trying to push "all wireless networking" thanks to 5G. Which is the antithesis of the networks you see.
So, I have to laugh a bit at that, as you're running a "dedicated DHCP server" - because DHCP is the protocol for assigning IP addresses on your network. But if you mean a dedicated DNS server, well...I run a Pi-Hole alongside unbound on my network, and I can tell you from experience how amazing it is that ads are blocked at the network level (and doing my resolution in-house means no worrying about upstream providers.)
And as was pointed out, it doesn't take long to get some serious traffic on the network with consoles streaming devices, computers, smart devices, etc. Not to mention that having things like NAS can be nice as well.
Edit: Also, never use a router from your ISP. You want a clean delineation between what's on their side of the fence and what's on yours.
Well, it's a modem/router combo unit - both built into the same box.
I thought about getting my own router, but it just seemed like an unnecessary added expense.
Is there a reason I should get my own router anyway?
I was actually watching a video just yesterday explaining how to do exactly this when my internet suddenly disconnected for like an hour.
Very mysterious.
Very conveniently mysterious. *glances around*
Yes - you want to have clear demarcation between what is your network and what is the provider's. When you let your provider control a key part of your network infrastructure, you start blurring that line - and blurring what they can control.
Edit: Also, the units the providers supply are not the best, and thus having your own router lets you supply gear that better suits your needs.
I currently have 2 POE injectors for the APs. If I add a 3rd AP, is that the critical mass for adding a POE switch instead?
One of the injectors powers a POE powered unmanaged switch in my attic.
Rough topology is:
"Modem" -> Router -> unmanaged normal 8-port switch -> attic switch (POE)
The non-POE switch has some other connections and not just the POE switch.
Things have turned a bit on the Unifi Express. It's slower than people would like and seems a bit crash prone. So in your case this is what I would do if I were you:
"Modem" -> Unifi Gateway Ultra -> unmanaged switch -> APs.
What's plugged in to that switch in the attic that can't just be plugged directly into the main switch?
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
I currently own 4 Google wifi pods and it covers my house sufficiently. But if there are better ones that use less pods I'm okay with that.
If you want to go cheap and easy, TP-Link has a good series of mesh systems called Deco. They're less expensive than some of the comparable Eero units and more stable than Velop and Orbi. There's a lot of sinophobia over TP-Link because they report data back to their servers which are in China, but so far there's little to suggest they're sending anything but diagnostic data and, really, I'm not sure I trust them any less than Amazon, Netgear, or Linksys.
That said... Can you run wires? Have you already? Because I would love to introduce you to the world of real networking with Ubiquiti. They're powerful, easy to set up, fun to tinker with (if you're into such things), and unlike the other companies they don't nickel and dime you with monthly charges for features that should be included.
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
And it's not just the Switch. YouTube videos on my TV upstairs (like 10 ft from the router) start at 360p. My phone takes forever to download and update apps lol.
I don't mind TP-Link even if they run diags in China. I'm already using Google and I'm sure they harvest a whole lot of my data. Are they going to give me more speed than my Google Wifi pods? I'm sure these ones are Gen 1 too.
Out of curiosity, you say the TV upstairs is 10 feet away. Do you have radiant heating?
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
I do not have radiant heat but I've always wanted it lol. I'll add that to my wishlist, thank you!
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
Turns out my upstairs AP never properly recovered from a brief power outage we had back in August. So it wasn't on (or wasn't connected to the EdgeRouter at least) and it needed a firmware update. I power cycled it and it got up and running again.
That seems to have solved things in the short term. I haven't had any issues with the Ubiquiti router and have kept it up to date.
Old speed test: 89Mbps.
New speed test: 686Mbps!
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970666737/