The [Final Fantasy] 7 R E M A K E has arrived. Rejoice!

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  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    Hot tub scene was definitely removed or there'd be a bunch of youtube videos about it.

    Pretty sure regarding who Corneo picks
    Cloud always wins, mostly so Tifa and Aerith have a moment. Who doesn't want to see Aerith drop a chair on someone anyway?

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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited May 20
    Hot tub scene was definitely removed or there'd be a bunch of youtube videos about it.

    Pretty sure regarding who Corneo picks
    Cloud always wins, mostly so Tifa and Aerith have a moment. Who doesn't want to see Aerith drop a chair on someone anyway?

    Wasn't there an early screen showing Cloud surrounded by the guys? I can't blame for removing it though, the new content is fabulous, but still in a relatively tasteful way.

    cj iwakura on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Hot tub scene was definitely removed or there'd be a bunch of youtube videos about it.

    Pretty sure regarding who Corneo picks
    Cloud always wins, mostly so Tifa and Aerith have a moment. Who doesn't want to see Aerith drop a chair on someone anyway?
    As good as the chair whacking was, it also would have been funny if they surrounded her she was like "oh no whatever shall I do" and sorcerous stormed them all into the walls.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Hot tub scene was definitely removed or there'd be a bunch of youtube videos about it.

    Pretty sure regarding who Corneo picks
    Cloud always wins, mostly so Tifa and Aerith have a moment. Who doesn't want to see Aerith drop a chair on someone anyway?
    Yeah, Cloud always wins, which is funnier if you get the best dresses for the others by doing the early sidequests and then just rush through Wall Market because that music gets on your nerves *ahem*.

    I wish the chair could have been an actual equippable weapon for Aerith. If they can give Barret melee weapons, they could give her one.

    Is there any point in the game where it's a good idea to give Barret a melee arm? I never used them as soon as I got the skills from them, but I assume there are advanced tactics with him I never bothered to learn.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    The melee weapons are slow and basically useless against flyers, but the melee special and the weapon skill do a ton of damage. I don't know that they're ever specifically better than his guns at any point, but it is still pretty hilarious to one shot dudes with his smash.

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  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    yeah his melee weapons do very good damage, but windup is sooo slow and losing your only source of ranged damage (i don't *think* Barret and Aerith are ever in the same party outside of VR stuff?) is pretty hard to justify

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    yeah his melee weapons do very good damage, but windup is sooo slow and losing your only source of ranged damage (i don't *think* Barret and Aerith are ever in the same party outside of VR stuff?) is pretty hard to justify

    Last stage
    you have to fight that big Shinra robot with just Barret and Aerith, which is a really bad idea to go melee Barret with anyway

    but yeah I think that's about it.

  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    yeah his melee weapons do very good damage, but windup is sooo slow and losing your only source of ranged damage (i don't *think* Barret and Aerith are ever in the same party outside of VR stuff?) is pretty hard to justify

    Last stage
    you have to fight that big Shinra robot with just Barret and Aerith, which is a really bad idea to go melee Barret with anyway

    but yeah I think that's about it.

    ohh yeah, forgot about that one. boy yeah that one would be pretty godawful with him on melee haha

  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited May 20
    As far as I understand it
    there are two Sephiroths present in this game - the one seen in the Shinra building is like the canonical one, JENOVA wearing an illusory skin, and then there's this other one that seems to be from the future, after he's already failed. Probably after Cloud double-kills him in Advent Children.

    Future Sephiroth is fucking with the past to create a more favorable outcome. The Whispers are a temporal defence mechanism that aim to keep history on track. Aerith is aware of the original timeline and has figured out that by breaking through the Whispers, they can alter fate. So that's what they do, and then Sephiroth absorbs em. Then they beat his ass too - probably depriving him of the power to alter fate any further.

    An apparent side effect of breaking fate is that Zack has now survived past the point he was supposed to die, and apparently made it to Midgar before the game ever started. So what happened to him? TUNE IN NEXT TIME.

    I've got some disagreement there.
    From all indications, there is only one single version of Sephiroth in the game, and he already knows how everything will play out. This Sephiroth suggests he's been basically to the end of time as part of the planet and doesn't like where it leaves him, but he's definitely from the future made by the events of the original FF7 game. He's executing his part of the story that gets things moving with JENOVA but he's also controlling the Whispers somehow in order to change events in his favor; the Whispers, however, still are attempting to steer events towards the original story (this is explicitly why the President stays dead when Sephiroth kills him, but the Whispers revive Barret when he is killed). Any multiples of Sephiroth is just him manifesting via Hojo's experimental subjects that were infused with JENOVA cells, which is also how Sephiroth is connected to Cloud; these are still part of Future Sephiroth, though, who seems to have wholly replaced the "contemporary" Sephiroth. This is a power Sephiroth was shown to have in the original game, where the actual physical Sephiroth is embedded in solid materia and has been influencing the world by controlling his clones and sending visions (mostly to Cloud).

    Then Sephiroth seems to swipe the Whisper mojo and open some sort of crack in reality, which is presumably a future in which he can influence things to his advantage. Aerith, who seems to have at least partial awareness of the situation (and has suggestions of being completely aware, but is just keeping it low-key), "sabotages" Sephiroth's portal by infusing it with some Cetra magic. According to her, passing through the portal at this point means nothing is certain and everything can go off the rails. They might win. Sephiroth might win. They might all lose. But the point seems to be that the Whispers are now no longer part of the equation and the future is wide open in terms of possibility, so now both Sephiroth and Aerith knows some of what will happen but don't know everything for certain.

    So the future story should no longer have any involvement by fate and (very hopefully) no involvement with the Whispers, but Sephiroth will still need certain things to happen. However, none of it will be forced to happen any longer and AVALANCHE, Rufus and flunkies, Sephiroth and his clones, and everybody from Cosmo Valley could join forces and create a traveling theater if they wanted.

    There also seems to be the aforementioned side-effects like Zack being alive. Some people say it's in an alternate dimension, but the story made no mention of alternate dimensions so I think Zack just survived past events that should have killed him. Multiple members of AVALANCHE that also originally died survived the falling of the plate this time around, so the story has definitely already begun creeping into the territory of becoming the wild unknown.

    Or in shorter form
    everything we see of Sephiroth is a Future Sephiroth who has come back in time to break history in his favor. The Whispers guard the timeline, he steals their power to break fate to help himself, and Aerith uses her power to make anything possible for the future. The future is now uncertain, and there are additional fractures like Zack still being alive, along with some of the members of Avalanche.
    I agree with there being one Sephiroth but I think it's questionable whether it is a *future* Sephiroth, rather than one with partial knowledge of the future, more or less like Aerith.

    If you're asking what the mechanism is for knowing the future, it doesn't need to be anything other than the Planet itself *willing* its own future, which is exactly how the whispers' job is described, to carry out the will of the planet. If you hear and understand the cries of the planet, you could have some idea how the future is supposed to play out. Most of the FF7 original doesn't have to have even *happened*, it could just be the plan the planet had for itself.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    @cj iwakura
    There's two different 'Best' Dresses for Cloud. They depend on if you get and do Madam M's or Chocobo Sam's sidequests. The later mirrors the original game both in quests and dress, while the former is all new. What set of quests you get depends on your dialog choices within Wall Market. And if you don't do the sidequests you get the shitty dress for Cloud.

    Aerith's dress depends on how many sidequests you did in the previous chapter. They're just a three tier system of amazing, good, and shitty.

    Tifa's dress depends on your choice in Chapter 3.

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  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    Melee Barret is great for traditional rpg tanking. Flyers are always annoying, but a little ATB charge / first strike and some magic and you're fine in most encounters.

    Bosses are a real big It Depends.

    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
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  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    Anyone know how to fix stuttering issues in FFXV Windows? I have a pretty beefy PC but I've been constantly fiddling with graphics settings and still getting random half-second stutters and really terrible framerates when battles get chaotic (either lots of fur or lots of particles). Turning off motion blur helped a little but not much.

    specs:

    Ryzen 5 2600X
    RTX 2070
    32 GB RAM

    running at 1080p

    I'm assuming it's a poorly optimized port because lol Square and I haven't had any issues with other games (nor any other games that make my PC sound like a jet engine the way XV does). So if there's like a sweet spot for settings or a patch or something I'd appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
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    Forget it...
  • manwiththemachinegunmanwiththemachinegun METAL GEAR?! Registered User regular
    My best guess is to google search for anti-stutter mods.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    As far as I understand it
    there are two Sephiroths present in this game - the one seen in the Shinra building is like the canonical one, JENOVA wearing an illusory skin, and then there's this other one that seems to be from the future, after he's already failed. Probably after Cloud double-kills him in Advent Children.

    Future Sephiroth is fucking with the past to create a more favorable outcome. The Whispers are a temporal defence mechanism that aim to keep history on track. Aerith is aware of the original timeline and has figured out that by breaking through the Whispers, they can alter fate. So that's what they do, and then Sephiroth absorbs em. Then they beat his ass too - probably depriving him of the power to alter fate any further.

    An apparent side effect of breaking fate is that Zack has now survived past the point he was supposed to die, and apparently made it to Midgar before the game ever started. So what happened to him? TUNE IN NEXT TIME.

    I've got some disagreement there.
    From all indications, there is only one single version of Sephiroth in the game, and he already knows how everything will play out. This Sephiroth suggests he's been basically to the end of time as part of the planet and doesn't like where it leaves him, but he's definitely from the future made by the events of the original FF7 game. He's executing his part of the story that gets things moving with JENOVA but he's also controlling the Whispers somehow in order to change events in his favor; the Whispers, however, still are attempting to steer events towards the original story (this is explicitly why the President stays dead when Sephiroth kills him, but the Whispers revive Barret when he is killed). Any multiples of Sephiroth is just him manifesting via Hojo's experimental subjects that were infused with JENOVA cells, which is also how Sephiroth is connected to Cloud; these are still part of Future Sephiroth, though, who seems to have wholly replaced the "contemporary" Sephiroth. This is a power Sephiroth was shown to have in the original game, where the actual physical Sephiroth is embedded in solid materia and has been influencing the world by controlling his clones and sending visions (mostly to Cloud).

    Then Sephiroth seems to swipe the Whisper mojo and open some sort of crack in reality, which is presumably a future in which he can influence things to his advantage. Aerith, who seems to have at least partial awareness of the situation (and has suggestions of being completely aware, but is just keeping it low-key), "sabotages" Sephiroth's portal by infusing it with some Cetra magic. According to her, passing through the portal at this point means nothing is certain and everything can go off the rails. They might win. Sephiroth might win. They might all lose. But the point seems to be that the Whispers are now no longer part of the equation and the future is wide open in terms of possibility, so now both Sephiroth and Aerith knows some of what will happen but don't know everything for certain.

    So the future story should no longer have any involvement by fate and (very hopefully) no involvement with the Whispers, but Sephiroth will still need certain things to happen. However, none of it will be forced to happen any longer and AVALANCHE, Rufus and flunkies, Sephiroth and his clones, and everybody from Cosmo Valley could join forces and create a traveling theater if they wanted.

    There also seems to be the aforementioned side-effects like Zack being alive. Some people say it's in an alternate dimension, but the story made no mention of alternate dimensions so I think Zack just survived past events that should have killed him. Multiple members of AVALANCHE that also originally died survived the falling of the plate this time around, so the story has definitely already begun creeping into the territory of becoming the wild unknown.

    Or in shorter form
    everything we see of Sephiroth is a Future Sephiroth who has come back in time to break history in his favor. The Whispers guard the timeline, he steals their power to break fate to help himself, and Aerith uses her power to make anything possible for the future. The future is now uncertain, and there are additional fractures like Zack still being alive, along with some of the members of Avalanche.
    I agree with there being one Sephiroth but I think it's questionable whether it is a *future* Sephiroth, rather than one with partial knowledge of the future, more or less like Aerith.

    If you're asking what the mechanism is for knowing the future, it doesn't need to be anything other than the Planet itself *willing* its own future, which is exactly how the whispers' job is described, to carry out the will of the planet. If you hear and understand the cries of the planet, you could have some idea how the future is supposed to play out. Most of the FF7 original doesn't have to have even *happened*, it could just be the plan the planet had for itself.
    I feel like Sephiroth all but says outright "I'm from a million billion years in the future and I came back to make things better for myself". In the original timeline, Sephiroth doesn't start fucking with Cloud until some time after Midgar, as he doesn't even know Cloud is actually alive; in Remake, he starts trying to control Cloud almost from the start, dropping in to hit with visions and whatnot. He shouldn't even know Cloud is alive at this point, but he has specific knowledge of where Cloud is and what he is doing. Sephiroth also talks up the future a fair bit, and the dead world you fight Sephiroth on at the veeeerrry end would seem to be his future.

    Additionally, the Sephiroth that should be around only has the power to control his semi-clones. But the Sephiroth we deal with is much stronger, able to manipulate his clones, appear to Cloud on a whim, and absorb the Whispers to break the fate line; even if the "contemporary" Sephiroth was made aware of the Whispers, he wouldn't have the power to control them. But the Sephiroth we've got is from the far future, having traveled back in time via his connection to Cloud in order to control the Whispers and change his fate. That fucker knows everything up to a point because he was there the first time.

    But keep in mind that Sephiroth is born of JENOVA and JENOVA is a planetary parasite. The planet existing billions of years into the future until it turns into a rock would be part of a normal life for a planet, but it would never get there if Sephiroth was able to drain the life of the planet, then use it as a vessel to find another planet to feed on. The will of the planet is definitely in the mix here, but that's why Aerith knows anything at all; being a whole dang planet, it has some tricks and passes info to Aerith about the future in order to keep Sephiroth from eating the world. The Whispers also certainly seem part of that, but they're more like the knee-jerk planetary response. It wants that original timeline to happen, Sephiroth is stopping it, and so the planet relies on Aerith to get things right.

    manwiththemachinegunvagrant_windsEl MuchoFleur de Alys
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    As far as I understand it
    there are two Sephiroths present in this game - the one seen in the Shinra building is like the canonical one, JENOVA wearing an illusory skin, and then there's this other one that seems to be from the future, after he's already failed. Probably after Cloud double-kills him in Advent Children.

    Future Sephiroth is fucking with the past to create a more favorable outcome. The Whispers are a temporal defence mechanism that aim to keep history on track. Aerith is aware of the original timeline and has figured out that by breaking through the Whispers, they can alter fate. So that's what they do, and then Sephiroth absorbs em. Then they beat his ass too - probably depriving him of the power to alter fate any further.

    An apparent side effect of breaking fate is that Zack has now survived past the point he was supposed to die, and apparently made it to Midgar before the game ever started. So what happened to him? TUNE IN NEXT TIME.

    I've got some disagreement there.
    From all indications, there is only one single version of Sephiroth in the game, and he already knows how everything will play out. This Sephiroth suggests he's been basically to the end of time as part of the planet and doesn't like where it leaves him, but he's definitely from the future made by the events of the original FF7 game. He's executing his part of the story that gets things moving with JENOVA but he's also controlling the Whispers somehow in order to change events in his favor; the Whispers, however, still are attempting to steer events towards the original story (this is explicitly why the President stays dead when Sephiroth kills him, but the Whispers revive Barret when he is killed). Any multiples of Sephiroth is just him manifesting via Hojo's experimental subjects that were infused with JENOVA cells, which is also how Sephiroth is connected to Cloud; these are still part of Future Sephiroth, though, who seems to have wholly replaced the "contemporary" Sephiroth. This is a power Sephiroth was shown to have in the original game, where the actual physical Sephiroth is embedded in solid materia and has been influencing the world by controlling his clones and sending visions (mostly to Cloud).

    Then Sephiroth seems to swipe the Whisper mojo and open some sort of crack in reality, which is presumably a future in which he can influence things to his advantage. Aerith, who seems to have at least partial awareness of the situation (and has suggestions of being completely aware, but is just keeping it low-key), "sabotages" Sephiroth's portal by infusing it with some Cetra magic. According to her, passing through the portal at this point means nothing is certain and everything can go off the rails. They might win. Sephiroth might win. They might all lose. But the point seems to be that the Whispers are now no longer part of the equation and the future is wide open in terms of possibility, so now both Sephiroth and Aerith knows some of what will happen but don't know everything for certain.

    So the future story should no longer have any involvement by fate and (very hopefully) no involvement with the Whispers, but Sephiroth will still need certain things to happen. However, none of it will be forced to happen any longer and AVALANCHE, Rufus and flunkies, Sephiroth and his clones, and everybody from Cosmo Valley could join forces and create a traveling theater if they wanted.

    There also seems to be the aforementioned side-effects like Zack being alive. Some people say it's in an alternate dimension, but the story made no mention of alternate dimensions so I think Zack just survived past events that should have killed him. Multiple members of AVALANCHE that also originally died survived the falling of the plate this time around, so the story has definitely already begun creeping into the territory of becoming the wild unknown.

    Or in shorter form
    everything we see of Sephiroth is a Future Sephiroth who has come back in time to break history in his favor. The Whispers guard the timeline, he steals their power to break fate to help himself, and Aerith uses her power to make anything possible for the future. The future is now uncertain, and there are additional fractures like Zack still being alive, along with some of the members of Avalanche.
    I agree with there being one Sephiroth but I think it's questionable whether it is a *future* Sephiroth, rather than one with partial knowledge of the future, more or less like Aerith.

    If you're asking what the mechanism is for knowing the future, it doesn't need to be anything other than the Planet itself *willing* its own future, which is exactly how the whispers' job is described, to carry out the will of the planet. If you hear and understand the cries of the planet, you could have some idea how the future is supposed to play out. Most of the FF7 original doesn't have to have even *happened*, it could just be the plan the planet had for itself.
    I feel like Sephiroth all but says outright "I'm from a million billion years in the future and I came back to make things better for myself". In the original timeline, Sephiroth doesn't start fucking with Cloud until some time after Midgar, as he doesn't even know Cloud is actually alive; in Remake, he starts trying to control Cloud almost from the start, dropping in to hit with visions and whatnot. He shouldn't even know Cloud is alive at this point, but he has specific knowledge of where Cloud is and what he is doing. Sephiroth also talks up the future a fair bit, and the dead world you fight Sephiroth on at the veeeerrry end would seem to be his future.

    Additionally, the Sephiroth that should be around only has the power to control his semi-clones. But the Sephiroth we deal with is much stronger, able to manipulate his clones, appear to Cloud on a whim, and absorb the Whispers to break the fate line; even if the "contemporary" Sephiroth was made aware of the Whispers, he wouldn't have the power to control them. But the Sephiroth we've got is from the far future, having traveled back in time via his connection to Cloud in order to control the Whispers and change his fate. That fucker knows everything up to a point because he was there the first time.

    But keep in mind that Sephiroth is born of JENOVA and JENOVA is a planetary parasite. The planet existing billions of years into the future until it turns into a rock would be part of a normal life for a planet, but it would never get there if Sephiroth was able to drain the life of the planet, then use it as a vessel to find another planet to feed on. The will of the planet is definitely in the mix here, but that's why Aerith knows anything at all; being a whole dang planet, it has some tricks and passes info to Aerith about the future in order to keep Sephiroth from eating the world. The Whispers also certainly seem part of that, but they're more like the knee-jerk planetary response. It wants that original timeline to happen, Sephiroth is stopping it, and so the planet relies on Aerith to get things right.
    There's also two really simple things.

    'Future Sephiroth' appears with a black wing, something he only had in Advent Children.

    The music that plays after you meet him in Ch2 is directly from Advent Children. It plays in the opening and after Kadaj's death.

    They give you serious hints from the very start.

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  • El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    So, with all this free time, I've started playing FF Type-0, which I've had from before FFXV even.

    Quick question regarding most of the team's "Quickcast" ability. Do the characters need to have an elemental spell equipped in either slot to make Quickcast work? Some of the individual abilities seem so much stronger and better to use than conditional requirements to trigger it.

    I imagine the characters that get Quickcast 2 or 3 make better use of it than others.

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  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    My best guess is to google search for anti-stutter mods.

    So after some extensive digging it turns out this is a fairly recent issue apparently caused by Square breaking the game with a patch.

    lol Square.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    More re endgame spoilers.
    I don't think we can read Advent Children elements as necessarily signs from the future rather than signs of compilation ret-con. People have commented on his Advent Children "uniform" but it looks the same way in Crisis Core, particularly the revision of his soldier emblem near his waist. In the OG he only appears with the single black wing in his "sepher" form (with four white wings as legs), but we see single-winged human Genesis and Angeal forms in Crisis Core, so its not a stretch that he would've developed this ability much earlier. We rarely got to see his actual body in the OG post Nibleheim, it was mostly clones and visions. It's not even clear we are fighting a "real" body in this Whisper realm either!

    Cloud has quite a few episodes of hearing voices through the early OG game. Was it the hidden influence of Sephiroth/Jenova all along? The remake seems to imply this strongly when Cloud falls into the Church, where clone-Cloud putting his hands on his shoulder turns into Sephiroth. In the OG continuity he simply wasn't showing his hand this early; even several times when he presumably pushed Cloud to kill Aerith you didn't see Sephiroth himself present. We do have key original authors from the game here so some of this stuff isn't pure ret-con so much as them just wanting to show bluntly what was subtly implied before and too much of the audience apparently missed.

    Its kind of questionable why OG Sephiroth *wouldn't* be aware of Cloud and manipulating him all along, he has the same Jenova cells that all his puppet clones do that are his eyes and ears. Tifa's whole problem was that she was afraid of Cloud running off after bumping into him, that's why she got him onto the bombing mission. And she had to bludgeon him with the starry night promise to get him to go on the next mission instead of leaving midgar, likely feeling the call of Reunion. I also don't find any evidence of Sephiroth being unaware of Cloud early in the OG, at least as early as the Shinra building where not only are all the guards outside your cell killed by either a clone or Jenova but the door is conveniently unlocked. As Cloud noted when he gave over the black materia, he wasn't ever chasing after Sephiroth, he was being summoned by him from the start.

    I will grant that Sephiroth appears to have far more extensive future knowledge than Aerith, but he should, his body has been stuck in the lifestream for years. As he boasted in the OG he has all the knowledge of the Ancients now, "and more." Why can't that include future events in this remake interpretation? In fact something like the whispers seem to have an extra-temporal existence, as killing the harbinger ends up rewriting events at the time of Zack and even before by erasing the whispers from recent history. Hell current Sephiroth might even have direct knowledge of future Sephiroth's consciousness through some kind of extra-temporal element of the planet. This could well be what it means to be a lifestream consciousness without a body for instance.

    Basically I don't see the need to invite direct time travel yet into the world of FFVII when there's already ample mechanisms for future knowledge, even of a very direct and extensive kind. Also because we would end up back at the idea of two Sephiroths if it was actual time travel. Let's not forget that remake Aerith was convinced that his apparent concern for the Planet is just a lie, so its not clear that he actually knows what long term future for the planet he might be trying to avert, rather than it just being a new tool in his arsenal for manipulating Cloud.

    rahkeesh2000 on
    Lucid_Seraph
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    Just started over for hard mode.

    That intro...
    a raggedy ass black bird flying into Midgar with One Winged Angel ominously playing in the background. Dat bird is Future Sephiroth, huh?

    Oh brilliant
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    all the tension between the Chocobros in chapter 10 a little undercut by Noct's sombrero.

    I'm in chapter 12 and I'm still not clear on like, fundamental elements of how this world works and how the lore feeds in to what anyone is doing. I don't think I've ever played any story-driven game that's as big a mess as XV. Just keep doing Stuff because Reasons. Why do I have to go Super Saiyan to fight a water snake? I have no idea! I thought we were saving the water snake from the empire but Noct chopped that thing right up.

    Luna was a big ol' waste of a character too.

    There's a lot of neat ideas buried in here but literally none of it has come together in any kind of satisfying way so far. Still gonna beat this mess, though. I've come this far already.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
    Ilpala
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    Just started over for hard mode.

    That intro...
    a raggedy ass black bird flying into Midgar with One Winged Angel ominously playing in the background. Dat bird is Future Sephiroth, huh?

    No, it's Double Sephiroth. Two wings.

    Ninja Snarl P on
    Dark Raven Xrahkeesh2000KoopahTroopahvagrant_windsKanaTofystedethLucid_Seraphbrynhrtmn
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    A little while back, I think someone here posted a super good guide video on how to beat the final simulator fight.
    (tldr max out your attack and ATB with nothing for healing or survival and spam magic and punching, but it's a lot more technical)
    I can't find the post now, but I wanted to say thank you, because I just steamrolled that fight thanks to it.

    Man, the best defence really is a good offence in this, I can't wait to see if that carries forwards to the massive bosses later on. Midgar Zolom can't one-shot you if you just don't give him a moment to get his shit together.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    all the tension between the Chocobros in chapter 10 a little undercut by Noct's sombrero.

    I'm in chapter 12 and I'm still not clear on like, fundamental elements of how this world works and how the lore feeds in to what anyone is doing. I don't think I've ever played any story-driven game that's as big a mess as XV. Just keep doing Stuff because Reasons. Why do I have to go Super Saiyan to fight a water snake? I have no idea! I thought we were saving the water snake from the empire but Noct chopped that thing right up.

    Luna was a big ol' waste of a character too.

    There's a lot of neat ideas buried in here but literally none of it has come together in any kind of satisfying way so far. Still gonna beat this mess, though. I've come this far already.

    I never understood wtf was going on either. Going directly from XV to VIIR was like night and day.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    Here's my pitch to fix the story of FFXV using only what elements I can understand from what I've played (I'm literally at the last boss now)

    The game opens with the Empire attack on Insomnia to steal the crystal. King Regis orders the Chocobros to evacuate the city and protect Noct, then dies valiantly fighting Empire dudes. This could be a big action filled opener full of drama. Have Ardyn be involved somehow.

    The Chocobros hit the road. Their goal is to meet up with Luna, because Luna can something something power of the gods/summons which is needed in conjunction with Noct's royal powers to fight the Empire, who now have the crystal, which is bad news.

    The Chocobros have to travel under fake identities to try and avoid the Empire. They take on identities as hunters so that they can do side jobs and get money to support their journey (due to being cut off from royal funds). They also gotta camp in the woods for similar avoiding Empire reasons.

    The whole run from the Empire basically pushes the story along during the open world parts; you go town to town meeting friendlies who'll help you, and then you have to run on to the next town before the Empire catches up. During all this, Ardyn is creepin' and generally being a nuisance.

    Meet up with Luna happens somewhere that's a moderate safe haven, to give her some time to have a personality and interact with the bros and endear her to the player. Then it's time to move on and try to hit the Empire. Luna comes with because something something gods.

    Empire and sub-boss mess the party up, the big depressing stuff happens here. You can probably keep most of the chapter 13/14 stuff the same so long as the required information on the crystal, the Empire, the Lucii, and Ardyn is sprinkled more evenly throughout the game instead of literally dumped on you in giant chunks when it suddenly becomes relevant, because holy fuck is this game full of endgame exposition dumps for stuff you should have known 10 hours ago.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
    AbsoluteZero
  • GroveGrove Los AngelesRegistered User regular
    Yeah XV's narrative is a complete joke in its execution. It could have been cool but it seems to be planned and written out by someone who made exactly the wrong choice at EVERY opportunity.

    Oh this incredibly important, emotional event happens that not only directly impacts the soul of the main characters but completely changes the face of the world. I know, let's read about it in a newspaper one random morning.

    Selling PS3 & 360 Madcatz TE Stick
    AbsoluteZero
  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    The audio mix was so jacked up that when Ardyn gives his bad guy exposition dump near the end of the game, I couldn't hear any of it and literally still have no idea what his deal was. The only reason I know he's a bad guy is he acts like such a smarmy ass and he rolls with empire dudes.

    I could probably look it up but by this point I just don't care. I had fun with combat and hunting all kinds of monsters but that was pretty much it. A lot like XII for me in that regard.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
    Grove
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    That's a bummer, Ardyn is one of the highlights of that game for me.

    IIRC his deal is
    he became immortal by sealing away some demonic scourge, thousands of years ago, and now history has forgotten him and he's so fucking bored that he just wants to die. His whole elaborate revenge plot against Noctis' family is just a byproduct of his suicide.

    Oh brilliant
    Xerink
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    The audio mix was so jacked up that when Ardyn gives his bad guy exposition dump near the end of the game, I couldn't hear any of it and literally still have no idea what his deal was. The only reason I know he's a bad guy is he acts like such a smarmy ass and he rolls with empire dudes.

    I could probably look it up but by this point I just don't care. I had fun with combat and hunting all kinds of monsters but that was pretty much it. A lot like XII for me in that regard.

    Oh, that audio shit is just... how the game is? I thought it was a glitch or I misconfigured something. Yeah I couldn't hear a goddamn word of that, Noct's grunting drowned out everything Ardyn mumbled. I only know anything about Ardyn from having been told it before I played the game.

    God this game is a mess.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
    AbsoluteZero
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Just got to the plate drop. Question: Do they ever go into the impact that said plate drop has on the topsiders? There's been a lot of talk about the obvious horrible impact (... har) on the slums, but hell, I think the topside people didn't get *any* warning, unlike the slums folk who when told "plate's gonna drop" seemed to go WELL THIS MIGHT AS WELL HAPPEN, LET'S RUN.

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • GroveGrove Los AngelesRegistered User regular
    No one cares about upper plate scum! Join your local Avalanche chapter today!

    Selling PS3 & 360 Madcatz TE Stick
    AbsoluteZero
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Hot tub scene was definitely removed or there'd be a bunch of youtube videos about it.

    Pretty sure regarding who Corneo picks
    Cloud always wins, mostly so Tifa and Aerith have a moment. Who doesn't want to see Aerith drop a chair on someone anyway?
    I live for Tifa cutscene punches.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Just got to the plate drop. Question: Do they ever go into the impact that said plate drop has on the topsiders? There's been a lot of talk about the obvious horrible impact (... har) on the slums, but hell, I think the topside people didn't get *any* warning, unlike the slums folk who when told "plate's gonna drop" seemed to go WELL THIS MIGHT AS WELL HAPPEN, LET'S RUN.
    I don't think they specifically go into it, but I can believe they at least started an evacuation, given that their narrative was 'Avalanche are trying to drop this plate, and our heroic forces are trying to stop them heroically", so a warning wouldn't have gone against that story.
    I doubt they managed to move coma-patients out of there in time though, so Jessie's dad probably didn't make it at least.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    edited May 22
    Just got to the plate drop. Question: Do they ever go into the impact that said plate drop has on the topsiders? There's been a lot of talk about the obvious horrible impact (... har) on the slums, but hell, I think the topside people didn't get *any* warning, unlike the slums folk who when told "plate's gonna drop" seemed to go WELL THIS MIGHT AS WELL HAPPEN, LET'S RUN.
    Yes. Chapter 15.
    It's a little strange in that there seems to be a lot of survivors and even buildings that made it, which is really weird. I guess I don't really understand the exact physics behind what happened.
    More re endgame spoilers.
    I don't think we can read Advent Children elements as necessarily signs from the future rather than signs of compilation ret-con. People have commented on his Advent Children "uniform" but it looks the same way in Crisis Core, particularly the revision of his soldier emblem near his waist. In the OG he only appears with the single black wing in his "sepher" form (with four white wings as legs), but we see single-winged human Genesis and Angeal forms in Crisis Core, so its not a stretch that he would've developed this ability much earlier. We rarely got to see his actual body in the OG post Nibleheim, it was mostly clones and visions. It's not even clear we are fighting a "real" body in this Whisper realm either!

    Cloud has quite a few episodes of hearing voices through the early OG game. Was it the hidden influence of Sephiroth/Jenova all along? The remake seems to imply this strongly when Cloud falls into the Church, where clone-Cloud putting his hands on his shoulder turns into Sephiroth. In the OG continuity he simply wasn't showing his hand this early; even several times when he presumably pushed Cloud to kill Aerith you didn't see Sephiroth himself present. We do have key original authors from the game here so some of this stuff isn't pure ret-con so much as them just wanting to show bluntly what was subtly implied before and too much of the audience apparently missed.

    Its kind of questionable why OG Sephiroth *wouldn't* be aware of Cloud and manipulating him all along, he has the same Jenova cells that all his puppet clones do that are his eyes and ears. Tifa's whole problem was that she was afraid of Cloud running off after bumping into him, that's why she got him onto the bombing mission. And she had to bludgeon him with the starry night promise to get him to go on the next mission instead of leaving midgar, likely feeling the call of Reunion. I also don't find any evidence of Sephiroth being unaware of Cloud early in the OG, at least as early as the Shinra building where not only are all the guards outside your cell killed by either a clone or Jenova but the door is conveniently unlocked. As Cloud noted when he gave over the black materia, he wasn't ever chasing after Sephiroth, he was being summoned by him from the start.

    I will grant that Sephiroth appears to have far more extensive future knowledge than Aerith, but he should, his body has been stuck in the lifestream for years. As he boasted in the OG he has all the knowledge of the Ancients now, "and more." Why can't that include future events in this remake interpretation? In fact something like the whispers seem to have an extra-temporal existence, as killing the harbinger ends up rewriting events at the time of Zack and even before by erasing the whispers from recent history. Hell current Sephiroth might even have direct knowledge of future Sephiroth's consciousness through some kind of extra-temporal element of the planet. This could well be what it means to be a lifestream consciousness without a body for instance.

    Basically I don't see the need to invite direct time travel yet into the world of FFVII when there's already ample mechanisms for future knowledge, even of a very direct and extensive kind. Also because we would end up back at the idea of two Sephiroths if it was actual time travel. Let's not forget that remake Aerith was convinced that his apparent concern for the Planet is just a lie, so its not clear that he actually knows what long term future for the planet he might be trying to avert, rather than it just being a new tool in his arsenal for manipulating Cloud.
    FF7R already has confirmed time shenanigans, possibly even including parallel timelines. When the party defeats the Whispers, they're also defeated in the alternate-Stamp timeline prior to when the game actually even begins, and Zack survives his Crisis Core death.

    Some people have tried to handwave that away about how a different-looking Stamp can't really imply much; maybe it's just another rendering, and Zack still limps on and dies of his injuries inside Midgar itself.

    I don't buy any of that. The picture of Stamp lingers on camera for an extra second or so as the animation slows way down to let you really take it in. And the game goes way out of its way to drive Stamp in as a thing, to get the player used to his design in the game's central timeline. This is why Stamp graffiti specifically is used in the approach to the second reactor. It's entirely unnecessary, and the camera makes a point to stop and force you to really look at the graffiti on at least two occasions. This isn't to guide the player either, as there isn't actually any other way for the player to go; the game is linear.

    That said, it's not clear whether we're dealing with a Sephiroth and/or Aerith that actually directly transported themselves back in time, or if they just have extensive knowledge of future events. I submit that the difference is simply academic. Knowledge of the future is a type of time shenanigans already (and creates all sorts of paradox issues). And if Aerith is her future self, she's already lost most of that knowledge from contact with the Whispers (as she specifically mentions how she loses a part of herself every time they touch her - potentially ripping away that experience she isn't supposed to possess).

    It is a bit notable that FF7R Aerith seems more competent than the OG Aerith in the beginning stages. She clearly needed Cloud as bodyguard in the OG, both mechanically and in terms of how her character was presented. In this one, she's instead doing it specifically to mess with Cloud & keep him around. That could be a modernizing retcon, but eh, add it to the pile of curiosities.

    Fleur de Alys on
    Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
  • RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    So, with all this free time, I've started playing FF Type-0, which I've had from before FFXV even.

    Quick question regarding most of the team's "Quickcast" ability. Do the characters need to have an elemental spell equipped in either slot to make Quickcast work? Some of the individual abilities seem so much stronger and better to use than conditional requirements to trigger it.

    I imagine the characters that get Quickcast 2 or 3 make better use of it than others.

    I wish I could remember to tell you for sure, but I think you do need a spell equipped. That spell is what quickcast modifies.

    I seem to remember using it to insta-cast high level point-blank area effect blizzard spells after dodging.

    But it's been a while since I played it.

  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular


    This was cool. Too bad nothing became of it.

    // Steam: VWinds // LoL: VWinds // PSN: vagrant_winds //
    // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 // Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
    Renzo
  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    Just got to the plate drop. Question: Do they ever go into the impact that said plate drop has on the topsiders? There's been a lot of talk about the obvious horrible impact (... har) on the slums, but hell, I think the topside people didn't get *any* warning, unlike the slums folk who when told "plate's gonna drop" seemed to go WELL THIS MIGHT AS WELL HAPPEN, LET'S RUN.
    Yes. Chapter 15.
    It's a little strange in that there seems to be a lot of survivors and even buildings that made it, which is really weird. I guess I don't really understand the exact physics behind what happened.
    The plate drop is *effectively* an earthquake, and I'd trust a Japanese dev team to not only understand the physics there, but to have personally lived through several, so...

    And yes, like... think about, say, when an overpass collapses during an earthquake. Often, the cars and people up top are mostly okay, if shaken, maybe some damage from falling and shock. Anything *under* that mass? Yeah, forget it.

    Or, think of it like an elevator in free-fall, I guess? Or a roller coaster with only a small lap bar. Or one of those drop tower rides, like Tower of Terror. Even if you're not wearing restraints, you don't actually fly up and hit the ceiling, even if you will feel nauseatingly weightless for a few seconds -- your momentum is kinda tied to the thing under you. Also, given the plate structure, there's likely a lot of collapsible stuff, sorta like how the front of a car is designed to crumple to absorb impacts.

    I actually imagine that the plates and the buildings on top of them are/were *designed* to take the shock of a fall relatively well, with the stuff up top being *mostly* OK. Like, Shinra being horrifically evil aside, why would anyone even design a system with the ability to drop the plate like that, if it wasn't originally intended as an emergency release mechanism meant to prevent something worse? I mean honestly the only reason I can even see bothering to design a city like Midgar that way is if it's in a geologically active region where you might not want your stuff on the ground in the first place. If that was the case, you could have earthquakes that would absolutely wreck the undercity, but the upper plate may well be designed to tilt/pitch/roll in some way such that the upper plate folk might not even notice an earthquake was happening. In turn, that's the only situation I can think of where an emergency plate release mechanism would make any kind of sense -- situations like an earthquake or other damage (meteor impact, anyone?) overbalancing a plate section such that it threatened the integrity of the rest of the city, dropping it like that is hardly an ideal solution but better than letting it break apart in sections.

    /shrug

    YES I'm thinking about the urban design issues in my stupid fantasy megacity.

    The Escape Goat: If there's anywhere that Occam's Razor fails to apply it's Elder Scrolls lore.
    Delduwath: Yeah, gotta use Mehrunes' Razor.
  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X Laugh hard, run fast, be kindRegistered User regular
    The upper plate
    is exploding into bits even before it impacts the ground. It's proppa fucked, IMO. Anything on it got wrecked just as bad as anything under it.

    Oh brilliant
  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    When you go to the ending part
    and you're in Shinra HQ sneaking through the vents, you overhear a conversation where a random office worker has been trying to get in touch with someone who lived on the upper part of Sector 7 and they haven't been able to reach them. So yeah, the posh people also died and the point of Shinra Middle Manager and Jessie's parents in Remake was clearly to make us realize that the richer people aren't Satan, they're simply benefiting from an exploitative system.

    vagrant_windsBigJoeMnever dieAbsoluteZeroEl Mucho
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Just got to the plate drop. Question: Do they ever go into the impact that said plate drop has on the topsiders? There's been a lot of talk about the obvious horrible impact (... har) on the slums, but hell, I think the topside people didn't get *any* warning, unlike the slums folk who when told "plate's gonna drop" seemed to go WELL THIS MIGHT AS WELL HAPPEN, LET'S RUN.
    Yes. Chapter 15.
    It's a little strange in that there seems to be a lot of survivors and even buildings that made it, which is really weird. I guess I don't really understand the exact physics behind what happened.
    The plate drop is *effectively* an earthquake, and I'd trust a Japanese dev team to not only understand the physics there, but to have personally lived through several, so...

    And yes, like... think about, say, when an overpass collapses during an earthquake. Often, the cars and people up top are mostly okay, if shaken, maybe some damage from falling and shock. Anything *under* that mass? Yeah, forget it.

    Or, think of it like an elevator in free-fall, I guess? Or a roller coaster with only a small lap bar. Or one of those drop tower rides, like Tower of Terror. Even if you're not wearing restraints, you don't actually fly up and hit the ceiling, even if you will feel nauseatingly weightless for a few seconds -- your momentum is kinda tied to the thing under you. Also, given the plate structure, there's likely a lot of collapsible stuff, sorta like how the front of a car is designed to crumple to absorb impacts.

    I actually imagine that the plates and the buildings on top of them are/were *designed* to take the shock of a fall relatively well, with the stuff up top being *mostly* OK. Like, Shinra being horrifically evil aside, why would anyone even design a system with the ability to drop the plate like that, if it wasn't originally intended as an emergency release mechanism meant to prevent something worse? I mean honestly the only reason I can even see bothering to design a city like Midgar that way is if it's in a geologically active region where you might not want your stuff on the ground in the first place. If that was the case, you could have earthquakes that would absolutely wreck the undercity, but the upper plate may well be designed to tilt/pitch/roll in some way such that the upper plate folk might not even notice an earthquake was happening. In turn, that's the only situation I can think of where an emergency plate release mechanism would make any kind of sense -- situations like an earthquake or other damage (meteor impact, anyone?) overbalancing a plate section such that it threatened the integrity of the rest of the city, dropping it like that is hardly an ideal solution but better than letting it break apart in sections.

    /shrug

    YES I'm thinking about the urban design issues in my stupid fantasy megacity.
    The Upper plate was 300 meters high in this one I think. There's not really a way you can build anything out of steel and concrete that much of anything on top won't be pulverized by that fall. The elevator/ park ride comparison doesn't really work, because you still hit the bottom.

    steam_sig.png
  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    Just got to the plate drop. Question: Do they ever go into the impact that said plate drop has on the topsiders? There's been a lot of talk about the obvious horrible impact (... har) on the slums, but hell, I think the topside people didn't get *any* warning, unlike the slums folk who when told "plate's gonna drop" seemed to go WELL THIS MIGHT AS WELL HAPPEN, LET'S RUN.
    Yes. Chapter 15.
    It's a little strange in that there seems to be a lot of survivors and even buildings that made it, which is really weird. I guess I don't really understand the exact physics behind what happened.
    The plate drop is *effectively* an earthquake, and I'd trust a Japanese dev team to not only understand the physics there, but to have personally lived through several, so...

    And yes, like... think about, say, when an overpass collapses during an earthquake. Often, the cars and people up top are mostly okay, if shaken, maybe some damage from falling and shock. Anything *under* that mass? Yeah, forget it.

    Or, think of it like an elevator in free-fall, I guess? Or a roller coaster with only a small lap bar. Or one of those drop tower rides, like Tower of Terror. Even if you're not wearing restraints, you don't actually fly up and hit the ceiling, even if you will feel nauseatingly weightless for a few seconds -- your momentum is kinda tied to the thing under you. Also, given the plate structure, there's likely a lot of collapsible stuff, sorta like how the front of a car is designed to crumple to absorb impacts.

    I actually imagine that the plates and the buildings on top of them are/were *designed* to take the shock of a fall relatively well, with the stuff up top being *mostly* OK. Like, Shinra being horrifically evil aside, why would anyone even design a system with the ability to drop the plate like that, if it wasn't originally intended as an emergency release mechanism meant to prevent something worse? I mean honestly the only reason I can even see bothering to design a city like Midgar that way is if it's in a geologically active region where you might not want your stuff on the ground in the first place. If that was the case, you could have earthquakes that would absolutely wreck the undercity, but the upper plate may well be designed to tilt/pitch/roll in some way such that the upper plate folk might not even notice an earthquake was happening. In turn, that's the only situation I can think of where an emergency plate release mechanism would make any kind of sense -- situations like an earthquake or other damage (meteor impact, anyone?) overbalancing a plate section such that it threatened the integrity of the rest of the city, dropping it like that is hardly an ideal solution but better than letting it break apart in sections.

    /shrug

    YES I'm thinking about the urban design issues in my stupid fantasy megacity.
    The Upper plate was 300 meters high in this one I think. There's not really a way you can build anything out of steel and concrete that much of anything on top won't be pulverized by that fall. The elevator/ park ride comparison doesn't really work, because you still hit the bottom.
    Yeah falling 300 meters is a bit more than an earthquake. the amount of topside "survivors" seemed kind of absurd. Then again they can't show us dead bodies for reasons.

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