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[Hearthstone] THIS THREAD IS DEAD. POST IN THE NEW ONE!

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    forty wrote: »
    I think one of the most fundamental flaws in DH is that the Outcast mechanic heavily tilts the class toward aggro and away from control. Unless they give the class good enough control cards that just let it ignore Outcast, then it's a liability. Big hand size and heavy cards don't play well with the mechanic.

    team 5 seriously thought that DHs would play Outcast cards by not Outcasting them

    they had this whole speech thing about "oh yeah yknow outcast really makes you think differently about your plays, like do i play this out now or wait for the outcast effect"

    bitch puh-lease you always go for the Outcast effect that's literally the whole point

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Outcast is also pretty trivially easy to activate if you build your curve correctly.

    Yet again, Team5's balance handicapped by the fact that they only playtest with the greediest decks imaginable.

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    A god damned buzzsaw. Bartendo is a bit underrated. I think it’s because people try to scale quick with him, where his advantage is you can slow play and still rank up appropriately.

    This was just brutal because it happened surprisingly early, just high rolled this shit.

    7plsrbzhfvtb.jpeg

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    also real talk: i am seriously worried that when the new expac comes out and there's an entire new set's worth of DH cards that none of them will see play

    because they have to be better than the base cards

    and how do you powercreep those

    how do you powercreep those

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Bartendo is like a worse version of Nozdormu.

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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Bartendo is like a worse version of Nozdormu.
    I mean Noz is dope, but I play way differently with both of them. But there aren’t a lot of heroes as good as noz. Deryl raf and deathwing?

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    GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    also real talk: i am seriously worried that when the new expac comes out and there's an entire new set's worth of DH cards that none of them will see play

    because they have to be better than the base cards

    and how do you powercreep those

    how do you powercreep those

    Or different side of the same coin: other classes get some way over the top shit to push back against DH, who gets zero worthwhile cards, effectively creating a lost expansion for an entire class. No matter which way you cut it, it’s incredibly unfun.

    I think DH balance is eventually going to smooth out, but the class having arguably the strongest Classic set means Team 5 backed themselves into a corner that they are constantly fighting out of.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    I think one of the most fundamental flaws in DH is that the Outcast mechanic heavily tilts the class toward aggro and away from control. Unless they give the class good enough control cards that just let it ignore Outcast, then it's a liability. Big hand size and heavy cards don't play well with the mechanic.

    team 5 seriously thought that DHs would play Outcast cards by not Outcasting them

    they had this whole speech thing about "oh yeah yknow outcast really makes you think differently about your plays, like do i play this out now or wait for the outcast effect"

    bitch puh-lease you always go for the Outcast effect that's literally the whole point

    It doesn't help that every single outcast except 1 is either mana reduction or card draw too which is very aggro oriented

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    Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    It’s not like it’s even remotely difficult to get the outcast effect. You either play the card as soon as you draw it, or you wait until it ends up on the left side of your hand in a turn or two to play it then.

    Provided you’re playing a deck that doesn’t hold many cards in hand, of course.

    So yeah, the class’s main mechanic inherently biases it towards aggro.

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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    You play eyebeam and the silence one out of position if needed.

    The others aren't worth playing without being active. You only play them inactive to activate a better card. (Read skull).

    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Dibby wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    I think one of the most fundamental flaws in DH is that the Outcast mechanic heavily tilts the class toward aggro and away from control. Unless they give the class good enough control cards that just let it ignore Outcast, then it's a liability. Big hand size and heavy cards don't play well with the mechanic.

    team 5 seriously thought that DHs would play Outcast cards by not Outcasting them

    they had this whole speech thing about "oh yeah yknow outcast really makes you think differently about your plays, like do i play this out now or wait for the outcast effect"

    bitch puh-lease you always go for the Outcast effect that's literally the whole point

    It doesn't help that every single outcast except 1 is either mana reduction or card draw too which is very aggro oriented

    This is the primary issue rather than Outcast being any sort of inherent Aggro mechanic...they just didn't put any fucking control effects on them. Of the 6 Outcast cards, half of them are just "make this cycle" - in the expansion, I'll add, where they decided Priest shouldn't just have a 1 mana cycle. Of the remaining three, one is "reduce the mana cost of 3 cards that you drew" which is - I mean look I don't need to write more words about Skull of Gul'dan we all know how absurd that card is. The most "control" outcast card is a 4 mana 5/3 rush that gains immune which is not that controlling a card. Especially since, frankly, a control deck would rather set up for turn 5 plays like Chaos Nova or Glaivebound.

    It wouldn't be that complicated to do something like "Outcast: Then cast this spell again" on Chaos Nova or something. Adding more damage to a damage spell that only affects minions is generally a very safe way to put a reward mechanic in. Instead they consciously chose to emphasize cheating mana and cycling as the rewards for Outcast. They also fail to understand how these mechanics reward aggressive decks, as seen by the fact that they openly stated they didn't put Skull of Gul'dan in their aggro decks IT COST FIVE FUCKING MANA WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU DO SOME FUCKING MATH.

    I would also broadly say that I think it's a mistake to design mechanics like Outcast and Combo the way they do, where the cards are things you absolutely do not want to play unless their effect is activated, but that's a larger game design discussion and would require adjusting other cards in the classes to compensate for the fact that you have cards that are fine-good baseline and then have additional reward effects. You couldn't just make SI7 agent a 3/4 lmao.


    Past that there's also the issue of "what the fuck is a control demon hunter deck even supposed to do". They only identity they've given it is "hugely overbudgeted 8+ mana demons" but this isn't a game anymore where you can just do control things for the first 5 turns of the game and then start playing minions that have high stats but don't recur or generate additional cards or shit. Congrats you played a fuckin' coilfang warlord I just revived my entire rez priest board suck my dick.

    liEt3nH.png
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    perdition's blade is actually a pretty decent card to play out non-combo'd because it has an inherent baseline effect of dealing one damage, which the combo increases to two.

    i've always felt combo cards should have a weaker baseline effect like that, which combo strengthens. SI:7 would be a lot more appealing to play on curve if it did one damage baseline. would feel a lot better than slamming a 3/3 do nothing.

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    i'm putting you in rogue jail for including the words "perdition's blade" and "decent" in the same sentence

    liEt3nH.png
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    i'm putting you in rogue jail for including the words "perdition's blade" and "decent" in the same sentence

    i didn't say it was good!!! i said it was DECENT

    let me out

    LET ME OUTTTTTTTTT

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    You sit there and think about what you done mister. Next thing you know blizzard is back to printing more shitty rogue weapons, combo cards or, god forbid, the combination of both.

    bwanie on
    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Still better than either of Shaman's legendary weapons.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    i saw a shaman control deck that exclusively used 1 mana spells with the legendary weapons to summon the priest Prime legendary 3 times in a row

    i admired the hustle, but it didn't win

    liEt3nH.png
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    GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    i saw a shaman control deck that exclusively used 1 mana spells with the legendary weapons to summon the priest Prime legendary 3 times in a row

    i admired the hustle, but it didn't win

    Chump has been showcasing that deck. I mean, it’s bad but still pretty hilarious putting 7-8 Reliquaries Prime in play.

    https://youtu.be/MYQRttu1OOw

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    Lol i thought you were making fun of trump.

    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    i mean TrumpSC is a chump too let's be real

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    All I'm saying is that there's only one streamer I've beaten

    liEt3nH.png
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    GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Trump is so goofy I can’t really hate on him. But if you want to watch a better version of Trump Laboratories that’s Chump’s channel.

    I’m also a big fan of emotionless deadpan humor and Chump’s pretty good at that.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    This post has been paid for by the Chump for Hearthstone President campaign.

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    bwaniebwanie Posting into the void Registered User regular
    I love trumpSC

    His editor is a beast too.

    Yh6tI4T.jpg
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    Got a new biggest minion.

    The other player had a gold barren with a sick death rattle build...it just didn’t matter.

    7ulk1rtckzj0.jpeg

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    I wanted to see how the patch affected tourney meta so here's stats for HCT Week 5 and 6.

    Week 5, 15th-17th:
    aybsFdc.png?1

    Week 6, 22nd-24th:
    PesKgIV.png?1

    Big trend away from non-DH aggro decks toward slower stuff. Last week's lineups were primarily Warrior + DH + Zoo/Face Hunter + Galakrond/Reno/Druid while this week's were more Warrior + DH + 2 of Galakrond/Reno/Druid/Questlock. Deck preference seems region dependent; SEA likes Druid, EU likes Galakrond, and NA likes Reno.

    For specific lists, Enrage Warrior is probably going to eat a ban or take a win if it isn't. It got a little less ban respect this week and didn't win quite as much but was still a top performer.

    Aggro DH has cut both its nerfed cards for Vulpera Scoundrels and Sightless Watchers. It was a middle of the pack performer last week despite its popularity but cleaned house this week, farming Spell Druid in particular and flipping its Priest matchups.

    Zoo and Face Hunter dropped off the map entirely after their nerfs. Reno Hunter is now the fastest non-DH list and seems to be doing a decent job in that capacity.

    Quest and Galakrond Warlock are seeing some play now that Zoo isn't using the class slot. They greatly overperformed, with a single loss to DH and even a couple bans.

    Spell Druid tanked hard this week and got farmed by pretty much everything. It seems to be struggling against the slower lists and the trimmer DH. Priest also had a rough week, basically only winning in the Spell Druid dogpile. Lastly, Seiko's weird anti-aggro Warrior seems a week too late meta-wise. It did get a ban in one set but the second set his opponent didn't bring DH and it went 0-2.

    And if anyone wants some peak Hearthstone, the end of Pavel v Rdu Game 2 was something else:

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Hah, Face Hunter got dropped completely.

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    YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    If you could bring multiple Hunter decks I think we'd see more Face Hunter, but Reno Hunter is the better choice of the two right now.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Snip Snap is mega stupid in this Brawl.

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Snip Snap is mega stupid in this Brawl.

    Strange way to spell Thaurissan there friendo

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    Loatheb is not too shabby, either.

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    GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    I have been looking for something more proactive lately. Found this tempo mage deck and put it together.
    ### Apxvoid Tempo
    # Class: Mage
    # Format: Standard
    # Year of the Phoenix
    #
    # 2x (1) Arcane Breath
    # 1x (1) Evocation
    # 2x (1) Learn Draconic
    # 2x (1) Magic Trick
    # 2x (1) Ray of Frost
    # 2x (1) Violet Spellwing
    # 2x (2) Frostbolt
    # 2x (2) Mana Cyclone
    # 2x (2) Sorcerer's Apprentice
    # 2x (3) Arcane Intellect
    # 1x (3) Chenvaala
    # 2x (3) Imprisoned Observer
    # 2x (4) Azure Explorer
    # 2x (4) Fireball
    # 1x (5) Big Ol' Whelp
    # 1x (5) Cobalt Spellkin
    # 1x (5) Malygos, Aspect of Magic
    # 1x (8) Power of Creation
    #
    AAECAf0EBqCbA/isA+ewA4GxA+G2A8W4Awy7AqsE5gSWBZ+bA+KbA/+dA/WsA/qsA/usA/GvA8O4AwA=
    #
    # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

    4-1 so far. Really enjoying it. This is not Apxvoid’s exact list. I am running mana cyclones and a power of creation instead of the Prime legendary and Mana giants. I don’t have those. But when I can craft them, I will.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    I have been looking for something more proactive lately. Found this tempo mage deck and put it together.
    ### Apxvoid Tempo
    # Class: Mage
    # Format: Standard
    # Year of the Phoenix
    #
    # 2x (1) Arcane Breath
    # 1x (1) Evocation
    # 2x (1) Learn Draconic
    # 2x (1) Magic Trick
    # 2x (1) Ray of Frost
    # 2x (1) Violet Spellwing
    # 2x (2) Frostbolt
    # 2x (2) Mana Cyclone
    # 2x (2) Sorcerer's Apprentice
    # 2x (3) Arcane Intellect
    # 1x (3) Chenvaala
    # 2x (3) Imprisoned Observer
    # 2x (4) Azure Explorer
    # 2x (4) Fireball
    # 1x (5) Big Ol' Whelp
    # 1x (5) Cobalt Spellkin
    # 1x (5) Malygos, Aspect of Magic
    # 1x (8) Power of Creation
    #
    AAECAf0EBqCbA/isA+ewA4GxA+G2A8W4Awy7AqsE5gSWBZ+bA+KbA/+dA/WsA/qsA/usA/GvA8O4AwA=
    #
    # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

    4-1 so far. Really enjoying it. This is not Apxvoid’s exact list. I am running mana cyclones and a power of creation instead of the Prime legendary and Mana giants. I don’t have those. But when I can craft them, I will.

    I tried playing this deck after seeing it on HSReplay and lost like 6 games straight. How the hell does this deck work? Just seems like you're spending a lot of time Doing Nothing while getting run over by aggro and such? It just seems so flimsy and very ultra reliant on specific draw order and RNG from discovers.


    edit: And yeah I was playing the "standard" decklist with Mana Giants/Solarian.

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    Snip Snap is mega stupid in this Brawl.

    Strange way to spell Thaurissan there friendo

    None of you can spell Archmage Vargoth correctly, smh

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    GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    I have been looking for something more proactive lately. Found this tempo mage deck and put it together.
    ### Apxvoid Tempo
    # Class: Mage
    # Format: Standard
    # Year of the Phoenix
    #
    # 2x (1) Arcane Breath
    # 1x (1) Evocation
    # 2x (1) Learn Draconic
    # 2x (1) Magic Trick
    # 2x (1) Ray of Frost
    # 2x (1) Violet Spellwing
    # 2x (2) Frostbolt
    # 2x (2) Mana Cyclone
    # 2x (2) Sorcerer's Apprentice
    # 2x (3) Arcane Intellect
    # 1x (3) Chenvaala
    # 2x (3) Imprisoned Observer
    # 2x (4) Azure Explorer
    # 2x (4) Fireball
    # 1x (5) Big Ol' Whelp
    # 1x (5) Cobalt Spellkin
    # 1x (5) Malygos, Aspect of Magic
    # 1x (8) Power of Creation
    #
    AAECAf0EBqCbA/isA+ewA4GxA+G2A8W4Awy7AqsE5gSWBZ+bA+KbA/+dA/WsA/qsA/usA/GvA8O4AwA=
    #
    # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

    4-1 so far. Really enjoying it. This is not Apxvoid’s exact list. I am running mana cyclones and a power of creation instead of the Prime legendary and Mana giants. I don’t have those. But when I can craft them, I will.

    I tried playing this deck after seeing it on HSReplay and lost like 6 games straight. How the hell does this deck work? Just seems like you're spending a lot of time Doing Nothing while getting run over by aggro and such? It just seems so flimsy and very ultra reliant on specific draw order and RNG from discovers.


    edit: And yeah I was playing the "standard" decklist with Mana Giants/Solarian.

    I’m not an expert by any stretch but if you play this thing like a control deck, you lose. Games I played were 2 DH, Aggro Hunter Murloc Paladin, Ramp Druid and Spell Druid. Won them all except 1 DH. Take that as you will.

    I use cheap spells to control the early game so on t3-4 I can have an explosive turn that gives me control of the board. It’s felt very consistent to me. Generating spells is almost as good as drawing directly from the deck. Magic Trick will get you something useful because there are a ton of great mage spells <= 3 mana. Evocation is insane.

    I’ll keep playing it until it’s not working or I stop having fun. For now it feels good and it’s been a great change of pace for me.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
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    envoy1envoy1 the old continentRegistered User regular
    I did it!!!!! Having been shamed for giving up on 21 May on getting legend I went back at it. Lost to 3 more final bosses, fell down to rank 2,1 star but I kept at it and today I managed thanks to some great luck on my first attempt at the final boss. A warlock was all poised to cheat out a huge demon lord but luckily for me his void caller only summoned another void caller.

    xlpom08jcoib.jpg

    yr7d54r422ib.jpg

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    envoy1envoy1 the old continentRegistered User regular
    I ran a modified odd paladin list this month with more focus on divine shields. I teched in a chief inspector to deal with the ubiquitous secret mages. To be honest, I probably lost more matches against non-mages than I won against secret mages... the handbuff mech paladin was total kryptonite, I kept losing to them.

    ### odd paladin
    # Class: Paladin
    # Format: Wild
    #
    # 2x (1) Blessing of Might
    # 2x (1) Lost in the Jungle
    # 1x (1) Patches the Pirate
    # 2x (1) Righteous Cause
    # 2x (1) Righteous Protector
    # 2x (1) Southsea Deckhand
    # 1x (3) Divine Favor
    # 2x (3) Muster for Battle
    # 2x (3) Rallying Blade
    # 2x (3) Steward of Darkshire
    # 2x (3) Warhorse Trainer
    # 1x (5) Chief Inspector
    # 1x (5) Faceless Corruptor
    # 2x (5) Fungalmancer
    # 1x (5) Leeroy Jenkins
    # 2x (5) Quartermaster
    # 2x (7) Corridor Creeper
    # 1x (9) Baku the Mooneater
    #
    AAEBAcOfAwavBKcFkbwC4vICnvgCgrEDDEbUBewP7Q/TE9muAv+vArjHAuPLAvvTAtHhAoytAwA=
    #
    # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    I have been looking for something more proactive lately. Found this tempo mage deck and put it together.
    ### Apxvoid Tempo
    # Class: Mage
    # Format: Standard
    # Year of the Phoenix
    #
    # 2x (1) Arcane Breath
    # 1x (1) Evocation
    # 2x (1) Learn Draconic
    # 2x (1) Magic Trick
    # 2x (1) Ray of Frost
    # 2x (1) Violet Spellwing
    # 2x (2) Frostbolt
    # 2x (2) Mana Cyclone
    # 2x (2) Sorcerer's Apprentice
    # 2x (3) Arcane Intellect
    # 1x (3) Chenvaala
    # 2x (3) Imprisoned Observer
    # 2x (4) Azure Explorer
    # 2x (4) Fireball
    # 1x (5) Big Ol' Whelp
    # 1x (5) Cobalt Spellkin
    # 1x (5) Malygos, Aspect of Magic
    # 1x (8) Power of Creation
    #
    AAECAf0EBqCbA/isA+ewA4GxA+G2A8W4Awy7AqsE5gSWBZ+bA+KbA/+dA/WsA/qsA/usA/GvA8O4AwA=
    #
    # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

    4-1 so far. Really enjoying it. This is not Apxvoid’s exact list. I am running mana cyclones and a power of creation instead of the Prime legendary and Mana giants. I don’t have those. But when I can craft them, I will.

    I tried playing this deck after seeing it on HSReplay and lost like 6 games straight. How the hell does this deck work? Just seems like you're spending a lot of time Doing Nothing while getting run over by aggro and such? It just seems so flimsy and very ultra reliant on specific draw order and RNG from discovers.


    edit: And yeah I was playing the "standard" decklist with Mana Giants/Solarian.

    I’m not an expert by any stretch but if you play this thing like a control deck, you lose. Games I played were 2 DH, Aggro Hunter Murloc Paladin, Ramp Druid and Spell Druid. Won them all except 1 DH. Take that as you will.

    I use cheap spells to control the early game so on t3-4 I can have an explosive turn that gives me control of the board. It’s felt very consistent to me. Generating spells is almost as good as drawing directly from the deck. Magic Trick will get you something useful because there are a ton of great mage spells <= 3 mana. Evocation is insane.

    I’ll keep playing it until it’s not working or I stop having fun. For now it feels good and it’s been a great change of pace for me.

    >don't play it like a control deck
    >use cheap spells to control the board

    Hmmmmm getting mixed messages here

    Anyway jokes aside, maybe post some replays? I just feel like I'm not sure what I should be doing at any point. Deck is too slow to play like an aggro deck and seems too combo/rng reliant...

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII They wanna get my gold on the ceilingRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    I don’t think those messages are mixed at all. You can’t sit there and do nothing but it’s not an Aggro deck. You’re not going to take and hold the board on turn one. Nor are you going to be able to just durdle about for 12 turns. You have to be proactive at all times but there are different definitions of proactive.

    Edit: it’s also not a combo deck. If you do nothing but wait until turn 9 to play Chenvala and 6 spells, it’s too late.

    Edit edit: I’ll try and record some games but your best bet is probably watching apxvoid.

    GoodKingJayIII on
    Battletag: Threeve#1501; PSN: Threeve703; Steam: 3eeve
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    BeastehBeasteh THAT WOULD NOT KILL DRACULARegistered User regular
    Trying the new breed of grindy bomb control warrior

    It's very feast or famine, sometimes you draw your corsairs cache/wrenchcalibur and your weapon pirate and put 4/6 bombs into your opponents deck then boom for a bunch of bots

    And sometimes you don't and you lose

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