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Thread of [Mana]

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    Is there any particular spell path for Angela that sticks out? I guess it mostly is an aoe vs single target choice in the end (light vs dark)?

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Naphtali wrote: »
    Is there any particular spell path for Angela that sticks out? I guess it mostly is an aoe vs single target choice in the end (light vs dark)?

    More than any other character, Angela will do the same thing no matter how you class her. That said, I think Light is an easier/more fun path. The Light-Light and Light-Dark classes are almost identical. Go Grand Diviner if you can't choose.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    One thing about Angela I didn't realize my first time playing through in high school is there's a definite amount of damage you can stack from locking things in the spell animations, and also there's a lot of enemies and bosses that will counter techniques and spells with bullshit full screen techs that will almost wipe your party.

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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    One thing about Angela I didn't realize my first time playing through in high school is there's a definite amount of damage you can stack from locking things in the spell animations, and also there's a lot of enemies and bosses that will counter techniques and spells with bullshit full screen techs that will almost wipe your party.

    Yeah, that's another reason OG Angela is a real mixed bag. Great for clearing mooks, not so good against actual late game bosses.

    You could chain-cast spells in OG Secret of Mana too so that bosses never escaped the stun animation. Except for the special top level animations that would randomly play. For some reason, those completely locked out the menus.

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    TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited April 2020
    Yeah, though the damage capped at 999 I think so you had to give it a break to actually occur if they more HP than that. Or maybe I'm getting confused with 2.
    So many bosses in the original SoM could be pretty much trivialized by using the right magic element against them if your magic was leveled to current.
    Unfortunately leveling magic sucked.

    Tofystedeth on
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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Man, despite loving how they rendered in 3D some areas, Heavensway and Woods of Wandara look rough.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    I've decided Duran/Angela will make the third playthrough team (for the final trophy before platinum. Need to kill their final story boss).

    Hawkeye will probably be the third character, though on a 3rd playthrough, there's almost no point to even having a third. He's really only there as the last non-annoying VA. Reisz is fine, but they decided that she would not use contractions when she talks and is very matter of fact in her delivery of statements.

    Everyone's 99 and even on Hard, bosses are pushovers. If there are any inescapable trash fights (there are more than a few), they're all trivial and can be cleaned up easily. This should be a simple 5 hour rush to platinum.

    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    So I'm kind of unsure as to how to build Angela. Seems her light classes are more focused on multi-target options; her first light job learns the rank 2 spells for all elements but Dark, and the extra spell either of the jobs branching from it are multi-target as well. Whereas the Dark jobs focus more on high-power shots to a single target; they only learn how to multi-target the rank 1 spells, and their final suite of spells are all single-target (with Rune Master splashing in status ailments as well).

    Both routes seem useful in different ways, and I could compensate for the weakness of one with one of Charlotte's dark classes.

    Also, is there much of a difference at all between her two rank 3 light jobs? seems they do the same thing, but have a different name and cost for their final spell.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    So I'm kind of unsure as to how to build Angela. Seems her light classes are more focused on multi-target options; her first light job learns the rank 2 spells for all elements but Dark, and the extra spell either of the jobs branching from it are multi-target as well. Whereas the Dark jobs focus more on high-power shots to a single target; they only learn how to multi-target the rank 1 spells, and their final suite of spells are all single-target (with Rune Master splashing in status ailments as well).

    Both routes seem useful in different ways, and I could compensate for the weakness of one with one of Charlotte's dark classes.

    Also, is there much of a difference at all between her two rank 3 light jobs? seems they do the same thing, but have a different name and cost for their final spell.

    I think Angela has the least variation in what she does. All classes for her boil down to some flavor of black mage. Everyone else has varying degrees of support/offense options, but...

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited April 2020
    Enlong wrote: »
    So I'm kind of unsure as to how to build Angela. Seems her light classes are more focused on multi-target options; her first light job learns the rank 2 spells for all elements but Dark, and the extra spell either of the jobs branching from it are multi-target as well. Whereas the Dark jobs focus more on high-power shots to a single target; they only learn how to multi-target the rank 1 spells, and their final suite of spells are all single-target (with Rune Master splashing in status ailments as well).

    Both routes seem useful in different ways, and I could compensate for the weakness of one with one of Charlotte's dark classes.

    Also, is there much of a difference at all between her two rank 3 light jobs? seems they do the same thing, but have a different name and cost for their final spell.

    The remake gives an additional skill passive. Light/Light's is MP regen after each fight. Light/Dark is a big MP refill when she falls to critical health.

    Otherwise, the differences are marginal at most.

    ArcTangent on
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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    I see.

    I think I'll go with Dark for her first class. I like the option of having all the elements available (and multi-cast, in her later jobs). Whether I go with the status ailments or the higher-level spells will depend on how I feel at the time. (though, Death Spell does sound hilarious for taking out trash enemies).

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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    Death spell (Annihilate) is surprisingly effective, and if you somehow cast it on a target thats point-blank with another enemy, it can actually take them both out.

    Unlike the SNES version though, if it doesn't kill, it won't do damage to compensate. It just fails.

    To make up for that, her single target level 3 spells (the ones with status effects) can do 20K damage in the right conditions, sooo... who needs Annihilate?

    Her Rune Master class skill is a room clear anyway for 300CS. It casts fast, has a wide impact area, and anything not dead by it is an easy mop up for your murderparty.

    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    Oh I am so mad at you people. I just posted in the [switch] thread joking about needing a new game...and....damnit.

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    First playthrough Liesz/Hawkeye/Duran. Current playthrough Charlotte/Kevin/Angela... so next run I guess is Angela/Duran/?... I did light side Angela this run so dark side next time. Dark side Duran since I did Liege the first run... uh... I think I'm going to end up with a party without heals because I really want to do Riesz light side there for the third slot.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    No heals is fine. On my second playthrough it was Duran/Riesz/Kevin, with Kevin and Duran going dark.

    Chocolates/Honey Elixirs are almost always capped at 99 and if you leveled your party to 94+ for a trophy, everything dies in a few seconds.

    If you're doing the third playthrough for the last trophy, the last story boss caps at level 65 so it's still a pushover.

    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    So I'm running with Reisz, Hawkeye, and Charlotte, and I've gone Light/Dark/Light for my first class changes, but I'm unsure of how to go for the second classes for Reisz and Hawkeye. I'm leaning toward Light/Dark for Reisz, if only to make casting her buffs less of a pain. I'm also kinda leaning toward Dark/Dark for Hawkeye, because I feel like his magic would probably be more useful in boss fights than against random fodder, but I'm really not sure.

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    - The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    In a recent run of the original, I went with Starlancer and Ninja Master, but mh third was Kevin, who provided a lot of punchy power.

    Definitely I think Starlancer for Reisz, though. AOE buffs are sick as hell.

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    ah I love/hate grinding for Rainbow Seeds once you have the Cactus Ring. By the way, how do you get Lucky Find? Is it a Hawkeye only thing?

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Starlancer for Riesz is great. She gets some chain abilities in that class that just boost all party stats by 7% for having them equipped (10% when you unlock Class 4 in the postgame.)

    She's pretty generous about using her buffs though, and since you get Seraph (her summon) as part of the deal, she tends to be stupid about MP management. Like, the enemies are almost dead but let me spend 12 MP on this long and graphic intense spell, or buff you right as the fight is finished.

    El Fantastico on
    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Starlancer for Riesz is great. She gets some chain abilities in that class that just boost all party stats by 7% for having them equipped (10% when you unlock Class 4 in the postgame.)

    She's pretty generous about using her buffs though, and since you get Seraph (her summon) as part of the deal, she tends to be stupid about MP management. Like, the enemies are almost dead but let me spend 12 MP on this long and graphic intense spell, or buff you right as the fight is finished.

    I'll note that Duran's Liege class gets those same passives... and unlike actual buffs I'm pretty sure they all stack.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    Chains that passively apply stat percentages with or without conditions will stack with everything unless specified otherwise.

    Things like Riesz Mag/Mag Def. buff won't stack with other buffs that apply the same status effect to you such as Angela's True Protection chain ability which starts the equipped character with a Mag/Mag Def. buff in combat.

    I think the most recent buff overwrites, so Riesz chain abilities in her Luck tree that has a 30% chance to boost stats by 15%/20% should take precedent if you cast them and it procs, but I don't know it that's been datamined and the game doesn't make it very obvious.

    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Also, Riesz buffs last a long time. You won't need to recast them at all as a Star Lancer.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Also, Riesz buffs last a long time. You won't need to recast them at all as a Star Lancer.

    They literally don't wear off. Same for debuffs on Fenrir.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Yay got to my first class change!

    Made everyone go with their Dark class. So I’ve got Angela going to learn All The Spells and sacrifice HP for power, Charlotte going to start doing damage with her magic, and Kevin is going to continue to Punch Very Good.

    I’m just hoping that level ups start providing more than 1 training point. It’s gonna take some time for Angela to learn all her level 1 spells at this rate.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Haha! And there it is. Level 21 gave me 2 points instead of 1, so I can see my skill unlocks accelerating from here.

    Edit: and then Level 22 was 1 point again. Hm.

    Enlong on
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Haha! And there it is. Level 21 gave me 2 points instead of 1, so I can see my skill unlocks accelerating from here.

    Edit: and then Level 22 was 1 point again. Hm.

    Yeah, it could do with accelerating faster I think. You do eventually stop getting the 1 point levels entirely, but...

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist I swear! Registered User regular
    Something I just remembered about the original was how fights would be broken up simply because stairs were in the way.

    "Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Its slow ramp because you only get to put 6/15/33 points into each stat as a cap, initially. It still lets you build how you want to, sort of, with one main stat for 5 out of 6 characters you absolutely WANT to max out.

    Angela is the only weird exception because of how her spells are divided by the elements. Meanwhile, the Saber spells, the stat-ups, are all in everyone's Spirit tree, so like, of course you want to cap that because thats part of the whole reason to class change.

    El Fantastico on
    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    It's awesome that your first class change comes so much sooner in the remake! It's paced a lot better than it was before. Now you can hit level 18 right when you first get to the wind mana stone, which just makes sense! It was always a bit of a pain before -- in the original that area is like level 12, and you have to fight several more bosses before you're at level 18. I always wound up doing a little bit of grinding pre ice/fire mana stone and going back to the wind cavern to class change, but that was a couple of hours deeper into the story.

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    RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Yes, yes Registered User regular
    I usually just went to the fire stone and ground out to 18 and then used the stone there.

    The Bil/Ben fight was on the tough side but grinding there was much faster than anywhere else.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    Heh yeah, I would grind at the ice stone but typically go back and class change before fighting the boss to get to the ice mana stone. It was a bit of a difficulty spike and just a fun way to test out your new classes for the first time.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Speaking of Bil and Ben; their fight in Laurent has kiinda dispelled my worry that the game would become too easy. Moves can be dodged, but then they show up with stuff like Shuriken, which hits real hard and has almost-instant firing time.

    Also, Shadow Menace is still nearly a one-hit kill, but you can avoid it! I'm no longer having to stop casting spells when around ninjas.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    https://brightrockmedia.com/2020/04/27/trials-of-mana-duran-classes-guide/

    There's some pretty good guides on this site. The guides just show you what abilities you get from training points. Good if you want to dig in. They also show you how the various classes look, which is important. The tier list for each character is a good summary of what that class gets and their recommendation if you don't want to dig or can't decide.

    Any class/team/combo is viable though! Do not worry about bad combos. There are good combos, and there are really good combos. You don't even need a healer, at least on normal.

    If you're going to do New Game+, I recommend farming some ???? seeds first. Store them away and use them in your next game. By using the Fairy's +300% EXP ability I was able to do my second class change at the Water Stone, which is SUPER early, and gets you that fun class 3 gameplay for a lot longer.

    Second run is now Kevin as a Fatal Fist, Charlotte as a High Cleric (I wanted Sage but didn't get the item) and Riesz as a Fenrir Knight. The Fenrir Knight costume is WILD. She's got a whole wolf on her back. The aforementioned +300% EXP ability is fun but has trivialized combat. I really hope they do a new game+ option to raise enemy levels.

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    thanks @captaink

    Just killed the Black Rabite and I'm starting out my second playthru.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    What I really want is an NG+ option to reset levels so I can carry over chain skills but not end up just starting at 70+ each time.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    El FantasticoEl Fantastico Toronto, ONRegistered User regular
    Platinum get!

    This was a good game. I doubt there will be any DLC for it, so it's effectively a game I don't need to come back to except when I want to mess around with character combinations.

    PSN: TheArcadeBear
    Steam: TheArcadeBear

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Ugh I can't run this at all on my main PC because of a non-standard screen size, it locks itself to 720p. I hate games that quarter-ass their config settings

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Oh dear. So Angela can learn a skill to sacrifice HP when casting spells to boost damage, and there’s also a skill to partially use HP in place of MP when casting. So I could just outfit Angela to drain her health in exchange for constant, boosted casting.

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    TcheldorTcheldor Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Oh dear. So Angela can learn a skill to sacrifice HP when casting spells to boost damage, and there’s also a skill to partially use HP in place of MP when casting. So I could just outfit Angela to drain her health in exchange for constant, boosted casting.

    Drain all the health. Kill all the things.

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Enlong wrote: »
    Oh dear. So Angela can learn a skill to sacrifice HP when casting spells to boost damage, and there’s also a skill to partially use HP in place of MP when casting. So I could just outfit Angela to drain her health in exchange for constant, boosted casting.

    huh. well...there's a skill much much later where:
    spells cost 0 mp

    and it's making this NG+ run like super easy even if she's level 10.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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