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Thread of [Mana]

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    H3KnucklesH3Knuckles But we decide which is right and which is an illusion.Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    Polaritie wrote: »
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    And if you want a healing/protecing character, but are annoyed by them not using Class Strikes, it's a fairly quick thing to swap to controlling that character, fire off a Class Strike, then swap back. It's what I occasionally did when I wanted Charlotte to just hit something already; even with balanced attack, she was reluctant to Class Strike.

    Secret of Mana (SD2) had 3 seperate metrics for performance, IIRC. One was a two-axis grid that was "keep your distance" vs "get in close" by "offense vs defense", and then you separately chose how high they should try to charge their attacks.

    A game like Trials ought to have a second axis besides protective vs aggressive; one for 'go all-in' vs 'conserve resources'.

    I mean, it has settings for how much to conserve CP, MP, and items individually?

    Ah, cool. From the way people were talking about the behavior affecting the use of spells & class strikes it sounded like they'd folded that into the p/a setting.

    H3Knuckles on
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    And if you want a healing/protecing character, but are annoyed by them not using Class Strikes, it's a fairly quick thing to swap to controlling that character, fire off a Class Strike, then swap back. It's what I occasionally did when I wanted Charlotte to just hit something already; even with balanced attack, she was reluctant to Class Strike.

    Secret of Mana (SD2) had 3 seperate metrics for performance, IIRC. One was a two-axis grid that was "keep your distance" vs "get in close" by "offense vs defense", and then you separately chose how high they should try to charge their attacks.

    A game like Trials ought to have a second axis besides protective vs aggressive; one for 'go all-in' vs 'conserve resources'.

    I mean, it has settings for how much to conserve CP, MP, and items individually?

    Ah, cool. From the way people were talking about the behavior affecting the use of spells & class strikes it seemed like they'd folded that into the p/a setting.

    Nah. I could do with it being more granular, but if you set Angela to not conserve MP at all she'll sling attack spells reasonably often and such (though the AI won't register that you've set her up to basically never run out of MP and just go full turret)

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    That said, the original SNES game of Trials did indeed have a selection of what Class Strike the character should use. This one instead has you decide how much meter to conserve.

    I still think this is far better then how the original handled magic. All magic was manually used in the original; AI partners did not do them, iirc.

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    PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Using magic at the wrong time / in certain fights in the SNES version was a good way to get wrecked though

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    edited May 2020
    “I’d better use all my strongest stuff to beat Bil and Ben.”
    [...]
    And They Were Never Heard From Again

    Enlong on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Enlong wrote: »
    What about their general combat behavior? When I had Charlotte on “Protection is Paramount”, she very rarely used her attacking magic, in favor of saving for healing. “Balanced Attack” has her using summon magic as her first choice in most fights.

    This! The companion AI actually seems pretty decent when you mess with the tactics. But, the more protective you make them, the less likely they are to use their class strikes or other offensive specials. I did the 2nd "most protective" behavior for Healer Duran, and yeah he just isn't going to use his class strikes as much as if you put him on a more aggressive setting. But, if you want him healing a lot you need to make the tradeoff.

    It's not character dependent so much as it is skill dependent. If you have a character with lots of heals or buffs, they will use those heals and buffs a lot more on more protective settings, but use their attacks and class strikes less. You're probably best off putting them on the more protective side. If they have lots of attack skills, then they're going to be better off on one of the more attack focused settings.

    That turned out to be it. It still seems like the three most aggressive options are all basically identical when it comes to heals and buffs.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    I am having a hell of a time finding ??? Seeds for Duran's last class (playing SNES version). Every single seed that I do pop seems to be either Angela or Kevins (and many duplicates at that); I've tried reseting the game, sleeping to next day, doing fights, etc and it never seems to adjust the RNG. Grinding on the Jungle of Illusion right now, haven't gone off to the Dragonland or whatever yet.

    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    The contents of a seed are determined when it drops, not when it's planted. Just in case you're trying to change the contents that way.

    Other than that, RNG sucks.

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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    captaink wrote: »
    The contents of a seed are determined when it drops, not when it's planted. Just in case you're trying to change the contents that way.

    Other than that, RNG sucks.

    I totally got them to change somehow though. My originally two seeds were two Dualist Tags, reset, went off and did some stuff, came back and planted again (might have been at a different planter) and got Rune Book & Omen Book.

    [Edit] Figured it out and finally got the Elefredi seed. Save in the inn, check what your ??? seeds turn into. Quit to the launcher, start the game up, go out of the town and kill at least one monster, then run back in, save at the inn, and check your seeds. They should change slightly (seems like there's a random distribution item seed that shifts based on this). Repeat until you get what you need.

    Naphtali on
    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Naphtali wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    The contents of a seed are determined when it drops, not when it's planted. Just in case you're trying to change the contents that way.

    Other than that, RNG sucks.

    I totally got them to change somehow though. My originally two seeds were two Dualist Tags, reset, went off and did some stuff, came back and planted again (might have been at a different planter) and got Rune Book & Omen Book.

    [Edit] Figured it out and finally got the Elefredi seed. Save in the inn, check what your ??? seeds turn into. Quit to the launcher, start the game up, go out of the town and kill at least one monster, then run back in, save at the inn, and check your seeds. They should change slightly (seems like there's a random distribution item seed that shifts based on this). Repeat until you get what you need.

    Could be different on the SNES version.

    Steam: Polaritie
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    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
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    NaphtaliNaphtali Hazy + Flow SeaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2020
    I mean, I said I was playing the SNES version (albeit emulated in the Collection of Mana)

    It was just driving me nuts because my characters were already lvl 43s and nearly capped on stats in their tier 2 classes. So now levels are worth something again.

    Naphtali on
    Steam | Nintendo ID: Naphtali | Wish List
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Naphtali wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    The contents of a seed are determined when it drops, not when it's planted. Just in case you're trying to change the contents that way.

    Other than that, RNG sucks.

    I totally got them to change somehow though. My originally two seeds were two Dualist Tags, reset, went off and did some stuff, came back and planted again (might have been at a different planter) and got Rune Book & Omen Book.

    [Edit] Figured it out and finally got the Elefredi seed. Save in the inn, check what your ??? seeds turn into. Quit to the launcher, start the game up, go out of the town and kill at least one monster, then run back in, save at the inn, and check your seeds. They should change slightly (seems like there's a random distribution item seed that shifts based on this). Repeat until you get what you need.

    Could be different on the SNES version.

    I remember that also being the case on the SNES version, but it's possible I'm remembering wrong.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    It's been a super long time, but I feel like I almost certainly did some savescumming with the seeds in the SNES version. I don't remember having a big difficulty with the ??? seeds in the original, and I hate random drop stuff like that.

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    It's been a super long time, but I feel like I almost certainly did some savescumming with the seeds in the SNES version. I don't remember having a big difficulty with the ??? seeds in the original, and I hate random drop stuff like that.

    You can use the Save State on the Collection to manipulate when Chests spawn and what they drop.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    mastertheheromasterthehero Professional Video Editor & Book Author Registered User regular
    It was definitely a bitch to get the right class seeds on the SNES version. Luckily, the HD remake is much simpler. (But I am playing on normal difficulty.) Was able to get all the seeds I needed by fighting two late game bosses.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Looks like we got mods! It's still early of course, but there's a page for Trials of Mana up on NexusMods, and it does have some not-terrible stuff! There are a few good costumes, some camera tweaks, and even gameplay stuff like removing quest markers.

    I'm not going to link to the main page, because predictably 70% of the mods are "_______ big boobs". But I will link to this difficulty mod! I know that's been asked for a lot, and it's cool to see that one is out so early.

    Also mega jacked Kevin.

    Fiatil on
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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Difficulty mod is a very neat idea. I would fear trying the class 4 duels with it active, but otherwise.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Finally platinumed FFVIIR, so I can let myself start playing this (between this and Xenoblade, I can't let myself have more than two RPGs on the go at a time or they both get lost).
    Any party recommendations? Combos to avoid, teams that break the game wide open? (I'm a fan of that last one)

    I've already decided no Charlotte, because if I have to liwsen to that cwute vwoice for the entire game, I'm going to delete it.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Finally platinumed FFVIIR, so I can let myself start playing this (between this and Xenoblade, I can't let myself have more than two RPGs on the go at a time or they both get lost).
    Any party recommendations? Combos to avoid, teams that break the game wide open? (I'm a fan of that last one)

    I've already decided no Charlotte, because if I have to liwsen to that cwute vwoice for the entire game, I'm going to delete it.

    Break the game wide open you say? L/L Angela, L/D Duran, D/L Hawkeye (Ninja Master, pretty sure it's D/L for that) or D/D Reisz. Laugh at the impotence of your foes.

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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    There are no bad combos.

    Good ones are: Dark Hawkeye (or Charlotte) + Light Riesz for stat downs on enemies, stat ups on you. Add in Kevin or Duran for melee slaying.

    Or, just Angela. It really doesn't matter how you build her or who you pair her with, she wrecks shop.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Oh my god I love that Duran's quest is literally to level grind so he can change class. Like, that's actually how it's described.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    I think I'm gonna go

    D/L Duran
    L/D Angela
    L/L Kevin for my run.

    Might go D/D Duran though I really like Leaf(or Moon I forgot) Saber for Angela.

    Dragkonias on
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    captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Mana isn't really a big problem in this game. There are skills to help restore it, if you want.

    The ultra secret boss gives a skill that makes everything 0 mana, but that's only really useable in new game+.

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    EnlongEnlong Registered User regular
    Let's see.

    Well, first thing is that your main character determines how the story goes, and has another character who shares in that story progression. That means you get to see more of the personal stories get resolved if you have the other character from the pair that goes with your first character. The pairs are Kevin/Charlotte, Duran/Angela, and Riesz/Hawkeye.
    captaink wrote: »
    Mana isn't really a big problem in this game. There are skills to help restore it, if you want.

    The ultra secret boss gives a skill that makes everything 0 mana, but that's only really useable in new game+.

    Does new game+ make any enemies more difficult? Or are you just talking about using that skill to re-stomp story bosses?

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Well, by the time you can beat that boss, you've already killed almost everything else in the game, so... (though there is the postgame dungeon and the time trials on its boss).

    NG+ does nothing for difficulty, and levels carry over, so... unless you use three people you haven't used before you're going to curbstomp through anyways.

    Steam: Polaritie
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    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I think more like by the time you kill that boss there's no point in using that skill on that playthru.

    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    I think more like by the time you kill that boss there's no point in using that skill on that playthru.

    Well, it could help with the bonus dungeon... if you didn't find all the lil cacti for that OP skill (+200% CS on all party members at battle start, which reduces random enemy groups to "Press CS2/3 and win" if you've got AoE ones). It quickly devolves into just spamming the same instant kill against everything over and over.

    Steam: Polaritie
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    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    Yea the game is pretty easy. So really no need to worry about team comp outside of what you feel like using.

    I had Kevin as my only heal spell on hard and it never caused an issue.

    The game is an absolute blast though.

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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited June 2020
    Yeah that's why I don't care too much about optimal class.

    Everyone is like "OMG D/D Duran and Kevin max DPS!"

    And I'm like "The only boss I really struggled with was a wall with floor traps and half of that was friendly AI being dumb."

    Dragkonias on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Yeah that's why I don't care too much about optimal class.

    Everyone is like "OMG D/D Duran and Kevin max DPS!"

    And I'm like "The only boss I really struggled with was a wall with floor traps and half of that was friendly AI being dumb."

    What was with that, anyway? It felt like a massive step up in difficulty from anything that came before it, and most of the things that came after it. The following boss was pretty nasty as well. Did they overestimate how much difference the class promotions would make?

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    lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I'm just gonna go with bad design + bad AI. They really dropped the ball on that one.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    The Genova fight definitely was interesting! On my first run with Angela main, and Duran/Hawk, it was a huge difficulty spike for me. Mostly because I just couldn't spam spells on Angela yet, and I don't think I had the ice spell to target his weakness. I picked up the water enchant items nearby, and spammed them on Hawk, but it was still a really long fight with lots of healing needed.

    On my second run with Kevin (main), Charlotte, and Riesz, it was....incredibly easy. I even forgot to pick up the items to enchant my weapons with water, and it was totally fine. I was super lazy, did not have any of the items I needed for the fight, and just wrecked him with Kevin. Charlotte having multi-target heals vs. Duran's single target probably helped too, to be fair.

    Those two fights were a pretty big difficulty spike in the original, but for pretty different reasons. You weren't class changed yet, there was no heal/save point in between the two (so you fight them back to back), and, as has been mentioned throughout this thread, Bill and Ben were cheating attack chaining assholes who would lock you out of using items/magic for like 20 seconds while they spammed their stupid shurikens and shadow dives at you.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    I had Hawk as a Ninja, so I had a source of water there. I'm not sure what putting the fire out actually did, but I kept doing it just in case. The whole fight was a mess in general, most of it was just me being repeatedly and apparently unpreventably slammed backwards, often into active traps. Between the fast but low-damage traps and the random enemies it felt like there was no way for me to actually learn the fight, all I could do was just tank its bullshit until it ran out of health.

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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Yeah that's why I don't care too much about optimal class.

    Everyone is like "OMG D/D Duran and Kevin max DPS!"

    And I'm like "The only boss I really struggled with was a wall with floor traps and half of that was friendly AI being dumb."

    What was with that, anyway? It felt like a massive step up in difficulty from anything that came before it, and most of the things that came after it. The following boss was pretty nasty as well. Did they overestimate how much difference the class promotions would make?

    That was almost entirely the AI not understanding how to stay out of that bad parts of the floor so they end up dead forever. Plus the camera seemed to have a hell of a time in that particular room. Was a bit too cramped to really work well.

    I believe my first go at that fight was like my single game over as, like you said, it just kinda came outta nowhere and I was on auto pilot before.

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Did anyone manage to fight Belladona? I'm curious what the fight is like.

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    DemonStaceyDemonStacey TTODewback's Daughter In love with the TaySwayRegistered User regular
    jothki wrote: »
    Did anyone manage to fight Belladona? I'm curious what the fight is like.

    What path is that from?

    I did all the optional fights but never saw that one so I assume it's from a path I wasn't on.

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    FiatilFiatil Registered User regular
    edited July 2020
    Hawkeye/Riesz. That's the one I haven't done yet!

    Fiatil on
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    Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro cloaked in the midnight glory of an event horizonRegistered User regular
    So I basically bought a Switch just to play this (but also Animal Crossing) because I loved playing that Seiken Densetsu 3 translation oh so many years ago.

    The AI is really bad at avoiding those bright red attack indicators huh

    Anyway, I’ve taken down two Benevodons and ran around Woods of Wandara a bit to get enough ??? Seeds. Planting 6 at once did give me all the different class items, so that was rad. Running Ninja Master Hawk, Starlancer Riesz, Warrior Monk Kevin. Nice to finally have multitarget attacks and abilities.

    I kinda love how the melee combat is basically Dynasty Warriors style with the combos

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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    Fiatil wrote: »
    Hawkeye/Riesz. That's the one I haven't done yet!

    I did that path, but instead of fighting me she just floated in one place and talked at me while my team beat her up.

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    NyysjanNyysjan FinlandRegistered User regular
    Bought this yesterday, only few hours in, pretty decent so far.
    Only have the first spirit so far, looking for gnome atm. Team lineup Angela (main character), Riesz and Charlotte.
    We need more rpg's that can have all women teams.
    So far Angela has been great, really liking her attitude, Riesz and Charlotte are bit more lowkey, but still decent, and Charlotte manages to be a child character i don't get pissed at, so that's good.

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