Voters Rights and the Suppression Thereof

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    The mass of idiots are made much more dangerous by the cunning ratfuckers organizing and manipulating them from behind the scenes.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Hacksaw wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Oh, boy. What’s the latest one there?

    It's not really new, but it's that the entire Russia investigation was a coup and Obama must go to prison. They're just pushing it super hard now that Barr's dropped charges. The lame duck is going to be super fun if Biden wins.

    I do not look forward to finding out how hard Trump and co. are going to froth and flail if they lose in November. I expect every day leading up to January 20th will be a continuous glimpse at the raging id behind that man's eyes.

    TBH, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that if he wins he just disappears. Literally ghosts the US, leaving his kids and Pence holding the legal bag.

    And I don't mean to suggest that this is a plan. His plan is to win. But should that not happen, he'll lean over and whisper to someone "Get me out of here" and the next thing we'll know is that we see a lot of denial about Trump not being in the Whitehouse and how everyone who says otherwise is a lying liar.

    Of course we need to vote in order to see that happen.

    He either makes moves to never leave or he's on a plane for Russia on November 4th.

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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    The only way Trump leaves the White House is if Secret Service elect to drag him out. He will absolutely contest the election if he loses, and who can make him leave? He's the President. So he ties it up in the courts long enough that it's the next term, and then inertia carries him.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    The only way Trump leaves the White House is if Secret Service elect to drag him out. He will absolutely contest the election if he loses, and who can make him leave? He's the President. So he ties it up in the courts long enough that it's the next term, and then inertia carries him.

    House certifies the result, at which point Biden is POTUS-Elect.

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  • silence1186silence1186 Character shields down! As a wingmanRegistered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    The only way Trump leaves the White House is if Secret Service elect to drag him out. He will absolutely contest the election if he loses, and who can make him leave? He's the President. So he ties it up in the courts long enough that it's the next term, and then inertia carries him.

    House certifies the result, at which point Biden is POTUS-Elect.

    Well yes, but who's going to physically remove Trump. He is not graceful enough to just leave, a loser. He will fight this to the bitter end.

    V wrote:
    Words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.

    Chomp-ChompNetscape
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    The only way Trump leaves the White House is if Secret Service elect to drag him out. He will absolutely contest the election if he loses, and who can make him leave? He's the President. So he ties it up in the courts long enough that it's the next term, and then inertia carries him.

    House certifies the result, at which point Biden is POTUS-Elect.

    Well yes, but who's going to physically remove Trump. He is not graceful enough to just leave, a loser. He will fight this to the bitter end.

    Sure, but in this hypothetical, once Biden is sworn in one would expect the problem to be solved by the government giving him a well-deserved boot.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Once Biden goes from President Elect to President Actual, the Secret Service's role with regards to Trump changes. He'll still be entitled to Secret Service protection, but is not entitled to be present in the White House, and the Secret Service can and does evict trespassers.

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  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    Don't have to physically remove him. Let him squat in the ruins of the White House he destroyed. Just cut the power, and leave him to Gollum the basement there, huddled in the dark waiting for the hammer to fall.

    The White House doesn't convey the office, just have Congress appoint the next legal President and get on with the business of cleaning up this mess.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    homeland season 6 was simultaneously about Trump being elected as well as what will happen when Trump is expected to turn over power

    I hate it

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Trump doesn't remotely have the spine to do anything at the transfer of power. He'll bitch and whine about it, write a million Tweets in a day, then immediately scurry away at the first opportunity. The only chance of something untoward happening is if he thinks he can manipulate his followers into doing something for him, and only if he can stand back and say "I had nothing to do with this!" if it goes badly somehow.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    If Trump loses here's what you can expect:

    - He will make a lot of noise about the election being illegitimate, it will likely be an attempt to get some sort of assurance out of Biden that he will be allowed to avoid prosecution. It will likely amount to nothing

    - He'll make stupid faces during a swearing in ceremony he threatens to not attend

    - He'll talk shit on Twitter before the inaugural ball starts

    All of this is predicated on him not cheating hard enough/the country sucking enough not to reelect him

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Trump would never attend Biden's swearing-in ceremony.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Trump would never attend Biden's swearing-in ceremony.

    Somebody photoshop him onto Bill Laimbeer leaving the court after the Bulls dethroned the Pistons.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Trump would never attend Biden's swearing-in ceremony.

    It's the last time he gets to be President in public

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    There's way too many variables to predict how things will shake out

    -How COVID will affect the election
    -Election results (Trump wins handily, Trump wins by a hair, flordia-style deadlock, Biden wins by a hair, Biden wins handily)
    -What bullshit the republicans can gin up to make whatever results they don't like seem illegitimate
    -What the makeup of the House and Senate will be
    -What the Supreme Court looks like at that time

    Long and short of it is Trump will do what he thinks he can get away with, which will depend on the above. It's pointless to speculate about it now.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Call me Ahava Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    Slight sideways interjection here but

    If you are am American citizen living abroad and have not already requested your absentee ballot for November, you should still have time.

    Go to Votefromabroad.org and check your States requirements/deadlines.

    This resource might also be able to help those not living Abroad also request/check their States absentee ballot requests.

    VFA is run as a non partisan organisation, but is a project of Democrats Abroad. If you have any questions about DA, please feel free to PM me.

    Gnome-Interruptusmoniker
  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    I’m curious about what is like the mathematical largest number of popular votes possible for a Democrat to get and still lose? Like are we goi g to run into a situation where one day a Democrat gets like 10 million more votes and still loses the presidency?

  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    I’m curious about what is like the mathematical largest number of popular votes possible for a Democrat to get and still lose? Like are we goi g to run into a situation where one day a Democrat gets like 10 million more votes and still loses the presidency?

    They could take every vote in the... 11 or 12 most populous states I think and still lose. Plus 50%-1 of the rest.

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  • VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    The only way Trump leaves the White House is if Secret Service elect to drag him out. He will absolutely contest the election if he loses, and who can make him leave? He's the President. So he ties it up in the courts long enough that it's the next term, and then inertia carries him.

    House certifies the result, at which point Biden is POTUS-Elect.

    Well yes, but who's going to physically remove Trump. He is not graceful enough to just leave, a loser. He will fight this to the bitter end.

    Secret Service will easily toss him out. They serve the office, not Trump. They gotta be sick of the guy.

    Fencingsax
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    VoodooV wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    The only way Trump leaves the White House is if Secret Service elect to drag him out. He will absolutely contest the election if he loses, and who can make him leave? He's the President. So he ties it up in the courts long enough that it's the next term, and then inertia carries him.

    House certifies the result, at which point Biden is POTUS-Elect.

    Well yes, but who's going to physically remove Trump. He is not graceful enough to just leave, a loser. He will fight this to the bitter end.

    Secret Service will easily toss him out. They serve the office, not Trump. They gotta be sick of the guy.

    I'm sure the Secret Service is largely Republican, as all military and law enforcement tend to be. They might personally hate his guts because they've had to deal with him treating them like the help for 4 years, but even so, they are not going to mount what would be seen as a "coup" by the right. They might do it if a left-wing President refused to leave. Never to a right-wing President.

    They are basically the Praetorian Guard. Power lies ultimately with them. This is fine in a functioning country, but the more that power gets warped by the right, the more they will realize that if there are two rival Presidents, they get to pick, and the other armed forces will back them up.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    There won't be two rival presidencies.

    There will be POTUS. And the guy in POTUS' office.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    There won't be two rival presidencies.

    There will be POTUS. And the guy in POTUS' office.

    Only problem is 40+% of the population disagreeing with <60% of the population as to which positions Trump and Biden hold.

    I don’t mean to be nihilistic, but the steadily
    escalating stream of bullshit that Trump and his cronies have done to this point, and now "Obamagate", doesn't give me high hopes this ends well.

    Trump has made it clear he feels entitled to the position, and his support mechanism (base, FOX and elected Republicans) don't seem like they're just going to give up without a fight.

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  • ProhassProhass Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I’m curious about what is like the mathematical largest number of popular votes possible for a Democrat to get and still lose? Like are we goi g to run into a situation where one day a Democrat gets like 10 million more votes and still loses the presidency?

    They could take every vote in the... 11 or 12 most populous states I think and still lose. Plus 50%-1 of the rest.

    A country cannot function like that long term. It’s an absurdity

    CelestialBadgerCalica
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I don't think Trump has the balls to mount a coup. But I'm very sure there's a younger man out there (a Dan Crenshaw type) who does and is carefully observing which of Trump's flailing tactics expose critical weaknesses in the US political system.

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  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    I don't think Trump has the balls to mount a coup. But I'm very sure there's a younger man out there (a Dan Crenshaw type) who does and is carefully observing which of Trump's flailing tactics expose critical weaknesses in the US political system.

    He's been floating trial balloons since before he was elected. All he needs is enough people to agree with him. He could very easily stumble his way there given the way McConnel and Roberts have paved the way, and Fox News, Sinclair, and other media outlets continue to turn the wheels.

    NetscapeJaysonFourMrVyngaard
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Prohass wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Prohass wrote: »
    I’m curious about what is like the mathematical largest number of popular votes possible for a Democrat to get and still lose? Like are we goi g to run into a situation where one day a Democrat gets like 10 million more votes and still loses the presidency?

    They could take every vote in the... 11 or 12 most populous states I think and still lose. Plus 50%-1 of the rest.

    A country cannot function like that long term. It’s an absurdity

    Sure. But he asked about how the math works out. And the distribution of house seats is a really long tail after the top five states or so.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Orca wrote: »
    I don't think Trump has the balls to mount a coup. But I'm very sure there's a younger man out there (a Dan Crenshaw type) who does and is carefully observing which of Trump's flailing tactics expose critical weaknesses in the US political system.

    He's been floating trial balloons since before he was elected. All he needs is enough people to agree with him. He could very easily stumble his way there given the way McConnel and Roberts have paved the way, and Fox News, Sinclair, and other media outlets continue to turn the wheels.

    He's been floating trial balloons for other people to start a coup for him.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    I don't think Trump has the balls to mount a coup. But I'm very sure there's a younger man out there (a Dan Crenshaw type) who does and is carefully observing which of Trump's flailing tactics expose critical weaknesses in the US political system.

    He's been floating trial balloons since before he was elected. All he needs is enough people to agree with him. He could very easily stumble his way there given the way McConnel and Roberts have paved the way, and Fox News, Sinclair, and other media outlets continue to turn the wheels.

    He's been floating trial balloons for other people to start a coup for him.

    That's the way he works. He gets other people to take the risk while he takes the reward. If the risk pays off, they get a small reward. If it doesn't, he never met them, doesn't know their name, and thinks they are "very sad people."

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  • ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Orca wrote: »
    I don't think Trump has the balls to mount a coup. But I'm very sure there's a younger man out there (a Dan Crenshaw type) who does and is carefully observing which of Trump's flailing tactics expose critical weaknesses in the US political system.

    He's been floating trial balloons since before he was elected. All he needs is enough people to agree with him. He could very easily stumble his way there given the way McConnel and Roberts have paved the way, and Fox News, Sinclair, and other media outlets continue to turn the wheels.

    He's been floating trial balloons for other people to start a coup for him.

    Trial balloons? He straight up ordered a few at the state level in the last several weeks.

    NetscapeOrca
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Dunno if this has been mentioned yet, but it looks like Georgia's "Governor" isn't done conspiring to rig elections beyond his own.

    https://www.vox.com/2020/5/19/21262376/georgia-republicans-cancel-election-state-supreme-court-barrow-kemp-blackwell

    A State Supreme Court Justice was about to be up for re-election. He handed in his resignation (effective Nov 18th), in a manner that permits him to serve almost his entire term, but which means the seat he was in isn't up for election for an additional two years. This allows "Governor" Kemp to nominate someone to fill that position for those two years. Including the SSC Justice who just resigned. And there's nothing preventing this Justice from standing for re-election in two years.

    The "Governor" of Georgia is con-Kemp-tible little bitch. Stacey Abrams should have won that office, and it's a travesty that the election result was allowed to stand.

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  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Or presumably just doing the same thing again? So it's always appointed and never voted on as long as you keep switching between the two judges.

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Or presumably just doing the same thing again? So it's always appointed and never voted on as long as you keep switching between the two judges.

    Yeah... if I'm reading that right that would allow just never holding an election again for seats held by your party. The issues of which are so blindingly obvious that ruling shouldn't be allowed to stand, but.

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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Or presumably just doing the same thing again? So it's always appointed and never voted on as long as you keep switching between the two judges.

    According to the article, it's possible for Kemp to nominate Blackwell (the resigning Justice) to that position. So the position could be held perpetually by the same person.

    It's a completely fucked situation, but that's what Republicans are all about now. Using arcane and clearly bullshit loopholes to hold onto power. Because you fucking know that Kemp (despite being bussed by Trump for opening early) is going to do everything to make sure that Georgia's election is thrown for Trump.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    He’s in a doom loop with this too

    The more he fucks around, the worse off he and his party’s numbers get, which means they need to fuck around harder to limit opposition votes, which....

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited May 19
    moved from General Coronavirus thread:
    Calica wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Instead of just doing vote by mail for a state supreme court position, GA Republicans decided to cancel an election because that is never a sign of democracy dying.

    https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/19/21262376/georgia-republicans-cancel-election-state-supreme-court-barrow-kemp-blackwell
    Georgia Republicans cancel election for state Supreme Court, meaning governor can appoint a Republican
    Republicans will control a seat on the state Supreme Court for an extra two years.
    As a practical matter, this decision is likely to prove very easy for retiring justices to game if they belong to the same political party as the incumbent governor. Indeed, under the court’s decision in Barrow, Blackwell likely could have announced that he would resign effective December 30 — just one day before his term would have expired — and Kemp still would have gained the power to name Blackwell’s replacement.

    Is this legal?

    I mean, I know the Republican (state?) supreme court would ultimately rule on legality, so I guess it's moot.

    They already did.

    If Democrats ever get control of the government again, one of the first things that needs to happen is a VRA v2 where if you have a track record of screwing with elections, your elections will be monitored in real time by a small army of Federal employees on the ground, because apparently that's what it's going to take to make certain states goosing behave.

    If.
    Because that's what all of this is designed to keep from happening, ever.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    How's a bit of better news on this front?

    Michigan's secretary of state has decided to send out vote-by-mail applications. How many?

    Approximately 7.7 million. That's one for every single registered voter to be able to go and vote-by-mail instead of going on out to vote at the precinct this August and November.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    moved from General Coronavirus thread:
    Calica wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Instead of just doing vote by mail for a state supreme court position, GA Republicans decided to cancel an election because that is never a sign of democracy dying.

    https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/19/21262376/georgia-republicans-cancel-election-state-supreme-court-barrow-kemp-blackwell
    Georgia Republicans cancel election for state Supreme Court, meaning governor can appoint a Republican
    Republicans will control a seat on the state Supreme Court for an extra two years.
    As a practical matter, this decision is likely to prove very easy for retiring justices to game if they belong to the same political party as the incumbent governor. Indeed, under the court’s decision in Barrow, Blackwell likely could have announced that he would resign effective December 30 — just one day before his term would have expired — and Kemp still would have gained the power to name Blackwell’s replacement.

    Is this legal?

    I mean, I know the Republican (state?) supreme court would ultimately rule on legality, so I guess it's moot.

    They already did.

    If Democrats ever get control of the government again, one of the first things that needs to happen is a VRA v2 where if you have a track record of screwing with elections, your elections will be monitored in real time by a small army of Federal employees on the ground, because apparently that's what it's going to take to make certain states goosing behave.

    If.
    Because that's what all of this is designed to keep from happening, ever.

    House Democrats did actually pass a voting rights protection bill of some sort. I'm pretty sure it was the first thing they did.

    McConnell, of course, wiped his ass with it.

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moved from General Coronavirus thread:
    Calica wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Instead of just doing vote by mail for a state supreme court position, GA Republicans decided to cancel an election because that is never a sign of democracy dying.

    https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/19/21262376/georgia-republicans-cancel-election-state-supreme-court-barrow-kemp-blackwell
    Georgia Republicans cancel election for state Supreme Court, meaning governor can appoint a Republican
    Republicans will control a seat on the state Supreme Court for an extra two years.
    As a practical matter, this decision is likely to prove very easy for retiring justices to game if they belong to the same political party as the incumbent governor. Indeed, under the court’s decision in Barrow, Blackwell likely could have announced that he would resign effective December 30 — just one day before his term would have expired — and Kemp still would have gained the power to name Blackwell’s replacement.

    Is this legal?

    I mean, I know the Republican (state?) supreme court would ultimately rule on legality, so I guess it's moot.

    They already did.

    If Democrats ever get control of the government again, one of the first things that needs to happen is a VRA v2 where if you have a track record of screwing with elections, your elections will be monitored in real time by a small army of Federal employees on the ground, because apparently that's what it's going to take to make certain states goosing behave.

    If.
    Because that's what all of this is designed to keep from happening, ever.

    House Democrats did actually pass a voting rights protection bill of some sort. I'm pretty sure it was the first thing they did.

    McConnell, of course, wiped his ass with it.

    I know McConnell is the wrench in the works. I would like to think the bill wasn't just a symbolic gesture, and that the House would have done the same if they thought it could actually become law.

    My biggest fear for the next presidential term, other than four more years of Trump, is that Biden will proceed to not do anything that would upset Republicans too badly, and will then act perpetually surprised when they have no such restraint.

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    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moved from General Coronavirus thread:
    Calica wrote: »
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Instead of just doing vote by mail for a state supreme court position, GA Republicans decided to cancel an election because that is never a sign of democracy dying.

    https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/19/21262376/georgia-republicans-cancel-election-state-supreme-court-barrow-kemp-blackwell
    Georgia Republicans cancel election for state Supreme Court, meaning governor can appoint a Republican
    Republicans will control a seat on the state Supreme Court for an extra two years.
    As a practical matter, this decision is likely to prove very easy for retiring justices to game if they belong to the same political party as the incumbent governor. Indeed, under the court’s decision in Barrow, Blackwell likely could have announced that he would resign effective December 30 — just one day before his term would have expired — and Kemp still would have gained the power to name Blackwell’s replacement.

    Is this legal?

    I mean, I know the Republican (state?) supreme court would ultimately rule on legality, so I guess it's moot.

    They already did.

    If Democrats ever get control of the government again, one of the first things that needs to happen is a VRA v2 where if you have a track record of screwing with elections, your elections will be monitored in real time by a small army of Federal employees on the ground, because apparently that's what it's going to take to make certain states goosing behave.

    If.
    Because that's what all of this is designed to keep from happening, ever.

    House Democrats did actually pass a voting rights protection bill of some sort. I'm pretty sure it was the first thing they did.

    McConnell, of course, wiped his ass with it.

    I know McConnell is the wrench in the works. I would like to think the bill wasn't just a symbolic gesture, and that the House would have done the same if they thought it could actually become law.

    My biggest fear for the next presidential term, other than four more years of Trump, is that Biden will proceed to not do anything that would upset Republicans too badly, and will then act perpetually surprised when they have no such restraint.

    Pelosi and the House Democrats are clearly interested in getting this shit done. And Biden isn't gonna stop a voting rights bill going through Congress. The problem, as always, is the Senate. Regardless of who controls it. Although obviously it's better if the Dems do.

    FencingsaxLord_AsmodeusMoridin889Martini_PhilosopherAngelHedgieIncenjucarSkeithJaysonFourNetscapeGnome-Interruptusmonikeremp123
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