I always kept Maelon's data and never considered it the unethical choice. Data is data and once it's there if you destroy it you're just getting rid of knowledge for no good reason. Destroying the data doesn't bring any of the test subjects back to life and in fact makes their suffering and death totally pointless.
Those people didn't sign up to be martyrs, either
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Brovid Hasselsmof[Growling historic on the fury road]Registered Userregular
Some of them did. According to Eve all those females were involved willingly
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SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Mordin even comments during the mission that there aren't any restraints involved so he infers they were there as a volunteers
Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
edited June 2020
the answer to that question isn't yes or no, it's, "it's the same as it's always been"
the way it works now, and how it's always worked, is that it has to check in with the mothership at EA at certain points (launching the game, buying boxes, getting credits, etc), but they don't have dedicated servers to act as hosts for the actual game--the computer of whatever player started the lobby does that
basically it's still being supported officially, though minimally, which is pretty wild
Shorty on
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
I feel like people continuing to play me3 and andromeda multiplayer is going to be the big driver for getting another sequel. Having a dedicated fanbase continue to log in is a decent signal that not renewing the franchise is leaving money on the table
After Tali's mission an audible was called and we proceeded to Miranda's mission. She's been making a lot of noise about wanting her missing squad member to be found (it's Legion, though she doesn't know that) and I wonder if she thought that space would be filled by Mirandas sister. She stated right at the beginning that she hates Miranda and would take every opportunity to be a bitch that she could. It's an understatement, Miranda is solidly in "Look at that bitch over there eating crackers like she owns the place" territory; literally every line of dialogue is apparently proof that Miranda thinks she's superior to everybody and better than everybody and etc. We bring Jack on the mission who ends up having almost no cutscene presence whatsoever to my surprise. But Shockwave is a monster when combined with throw and really thrives in the warehouse level with the long sightlines and dangerous pits.
She stays true to her word, not only taking every "be a bitch" option with Miranda that presents itself but also refusing to talk to Miranda more than the absolute minimum. She doesn't investigate or extend the conversation in any way, every choice is basically the bottom right. She gloats over how naive Miranda is when Niktets betrayal becomes clear and loudly chooses to ignore the Paragon interrupt to stop Miranda from killing her old friend and is pleased that Miranda had to kill him.
The end fight in this level has some much more aggressive AI and I've always wondered why the AI wasn't like that more often. Even at the lower difficulty level I was forced to keep moving around to different cover and was having to fend off flanking attempts at all times. I wonder why it's like that here when it's decidedly not that way elsewhere.
At the end she does not encourage Miranda to talk to her sister and that's that. In the post-mission conversation on the ship she ends it as quickly as possible and somehow dislikes Miranda even more after that conversation where all Miranda says is "Thank you" and "I trust you and wanted you to know that." After a later mission when checking in with Miranda as part of the "go around the ship talking to people after a mission" cycle she keeps reframing Miranda talking about struggling with her insecurity over her creation and the complex she has developed about it and looking for a friend to talk to as "A big ole pity party woe as me bullshit just so she can brag about how perfect she is." She wants a "suck it up buttercup and get out of my face" dialogue option.
After Miranda we get back on schedule with Samara's loyalty mission. Off to Omega where we get sidetracked by a quick fedex quest for some weird salarians (Sel and Ish) to pick up some data for them. We do that and it's all about how one of Arias henchmen is selling her out. It does not occur to her to take this info to Aria, so she gives it to the Salarians and finds herself in a place where charm option exists without an intimidate option. It's the first time she has seen that and she immediately gets pissed off about not having as many renegade points and now it has bitten her in the ass because she can't pick the option. There's not very many places the game does something like this, but because she imported a character and hasn't had any of the really high level checks like with the arguments between Jack and Miranda or Tali and Legion yet, she hasn't seen a grayed out option that she hasn't met the requirements for yet. So to her only having a charm option looks exactly like not meeting the requirements for a renegade option which is not true in this case. I have not told her how the reputation check requirements are measured and will not do so.
After a short conversation with Aria about Morinths possible location we go talk to a mother who just had her daughter murdered by Morinth. There's a paragon interrupt during this conversation where the grieving mother breaks down into ugly crying and the interrupt pretty clearly is there for you to comfort her. It's actually one of the longer ones in the game, thought not nearly as long as the one on Mordins mission for you shoot the tank while the Krogan is monologue. Still, it was up there for several seconds as this woman is sobbing and crying and she ignored it. She claims she didn't see it or hear the sound it makes and was instead admiring how pretty and shiny the tears on the mother were. Personally I wonder if she's still feeling bitter about not having as many renegade points.
We proceed to VIP Afterlife and cruise around a bit to scope out options. She thinks about punching the creepy guy on the dance floor but instead decides to go pick on a Krogan at the bar. I think she got a taste for krogan headbutts and wants some more. She successfully mouths off to him and uses the intimidate check to stare him down, noticing this time there is no charm option. She celebrates by turning to the bartender to buy a drink "lets get some ryncol!" and charms the bartender into getting a round for everybody and notices there is no intimidate option. She is pissed off there's no intimidate option, but has not connected yet that there was no charm path with the krogan.
After that she picks a fight with some turians that want to mug people in dark alleys and has succesfully attracted Morinths attention. There she is awfully tempted to talk about Justicars, but instead talks about Art and liking the elcor artist Forta that was mentioned in the dead daughters diary, then travel where she busts out a charm option, and finally music where drug use is totally awesome and it's off to Morinths place.
Here there's some more dialogue, where the options are reputation checks on the left or on the right the only option is to fall under Morinths influence. The first two she has both the red and blue options available, but the third check is one of the hardest ones in the game, it's in the top 10 easily, but I think it's like the 4th or 5th most difficult reputation check in ME2. It's when Morinth is trying her hardest to put a mental whammy on Shepard and break down her will. For the first time in the whole game she sees an intimidate option is listed but is grayed out and it finally clicks for her that sometimes there's only one option if there's two sometimes you can't choose between both. Fortunately the charm option is still available to her and she doesn't have to lose control and select the "...Yes...whatever you want mistress..." option. That charm option is basically "Surprise motherfucker!" Samara storms in and the final choice to kill Samara or Morinth is a no-brainer for her, she kills Morinth.
We ended just after checking in with Samara on the Normandy. Though we also caught up with Mordin again and he was all "hey, you need a way to vent some stress and you come by here to talk a lot. I've had aliens hitting on me before and I want to be up front that I'm not interested" which I forgot existed and was hilarious for me to see her react. She picked the "Surely you're yanking my chain here" option.
I always kept Maelon's data and never considered it the unethical choice. Data is data and once it's there if you destroy it you're just getting rid of knowledge for no good reason. Destroying the data doesn't bring any of the test subjects back to life and in fact makes their suffering and death totally pointless.
It's funny that I agree with this but never kept the Collector Base intact. It's basically the same idea, really
Though that's more to flip off TIM cause fuck that guy
I totally forgot about Samara/Morinth. I think I disliked them so much I never bothered visiting them or using then on any missions. She's a total cipher to me.
"Simple, real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time." -Mustrum Ridcully in Terry Pratchett's Hogfather p. 142 (HarperPrism 1996)
Samara is cool but I think her costume design is a disservice to what she's supposed to be. It's too bad she's never playable in 3, I guess there's probably a similar playstyle to her somewhere in ME3 multiplayer. Morinth is a hilarious trap for unthinking Renegade players. "Hey, let's recruit this serial killer, I bet she'll be nice to me personally. OH NO, SHE KILLED ME."
I think the one thing that kind of inhibits my desire to replay ME3 again is that so many of the fucking cool guns I got to use in multiplayer aren't in the single player. You can get the Scorpion, which is my absolute favorite, but no Saber, Reegar, Geth Plasma Shotgun (I guess it's DLC?), Crusader and Kishock Harpoon Gun.
I'd be really interested to see how a full Soldier with max incendiary ammo with a GPS plays.
this thread is making me really want to replay me2. I did quite enjoyed me3, but if i take an honest look back at why, it's mostly because i really enjoyed how they wrapped up the character arcs/subplots as opposed to enjoying the actual main plot of it. that being said i played me3 multi to death and was sincerely heart broken when the weekly world events stopped coming right around the release of the final multi dlc pack.
i also will admit to an unhealthy amount of time spent trying to mod the game on pc so i could give shepard all the abilities of the paladin class. spoiler... unsuccessful.
Jack's loyalty mission. We brought Miranda because it was a Cerberus facility. And she wanted to show Miranda how terrible Cerberus is. Miranda doesn't have much presence, just some minor dialogues about how the people in this facility weren't really Cerberus and the survivors were punished, and the "They kept children in these?" line I think everybody gets.
Not a lot happens here, it's a straightforward linear kill things mission. At the end you run into another survivor and have the choice to tell Jack to kill him or not. Somehow she misread the Renegade "do it!" line and was utterly horrified at telling Jack she could be nothing but a killer and encouraging her to execute the guy. She demanded a reload on the basis that she thought it was talking her out of the execution in a renegade way. So we reloaded and she picked the charm option. She did love the bit in the end cutscene where Jack is fiddling with the detonator and then hits it suddenly; this causes Shepards eyes to go wide and then pound on the door to make the pilot go faster.
Since we'd done Jack and Miranda's loyalty missions, this means it's crewmember argument time! Joker informs her that Jack and Miranda are having a violent disagreement and could Shepard handle it before there are holes in the ship? Also send pictures.
Surprisingly the charm option is not available to her for defusing the argument, but the Renegade option is. I guess the renegade path is significantly easier for this check. She is torn between choosing it and telling Miranda to back off to put her in her place. She reasons though that everytime she tries to do that the game doesn't cooperate with her and it doesn't go the way she wants it to and Miranda always has a response and the game doesn't let her respond to it, and she doesn't want Jack to get any ideas, she needs to get in line too, she picks the "cut it out, both you" intimidate option. It basically tells them to keep one deck apart at all times and that they're free to go after eachother after the Collectors are dealt with. Thus she manages to avoid losing Mirandas loyalty though she doesn't know that.
This thread has made my try to do this with my girlfriend.
I do not think we will jam through it at anywhere near the same speed, but so far she likes her very badass looking femshep with the cool red hair.
Post updates! We'd already had a big portion of ME1 done when I started posting. We're flying through it so fast because instead of watching stuff on Netflix or whatever we're playing Mass Effect.
I'm pretty sure Miranda is unkillable. She was my only non-loyal companion and I pretty much tried to get her killed in the suicide mission but she still somehow survived at the last second.
The funny thing is that from what I remember reading she will totally fuck up every single task she volunteers for if you pick her, but she always manages to kill someone else instead of herself.
Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
I'm pretty sure Miranda is unkillable. She was my only non-loyal companion and I pretty much tried to get her killed in the suicide mission but she still somehow survived at the last second.
The funny thing is that from what I remember reading she will totally fuck up every single task she volunteers for if you pick her, but she always manages to kill someone else instead of herself.
She's a good leader! Put her in charge of the second squad and you'll be in good shape.
She is virtually unkillable. Can she be picked to escort the crew back? If so I think that's the only way to get rid of her...elsewhere she'll just get other people killed.
In my first ME2 playthrough I got her killed, but I don't recall my exact choices for the Suicide Mission. I'm pretty sure I had Garrus in the vent, Miranda leading the...fire team? Jack doing the barrier and Samara leading the colonists back. And Miranda died at the very end under collapsing rubble. She was also the only character I did not have loyalty for, so I always assumed that was why she croaked.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Ah yes! Anybody you bring with you that doesn't have loyalty will die. That'll do it.
Honestly though, Miranda doesn't deserve Shepherd's loyalty when all she does regarding Jack is fucking gaslight her regarding Cerberus being the good guys and shit. Whether it's through ignorance, indoctrination or willfully done, Miranda is a stupid idiot or a liar.
Miranda went from one oppressive and abusive father figure to another one. It should be no surprise to anyone that she clung to Cerberus being good when that had been the only part of her life that she liked and felt that she could be proud of. When she is finally FORCED to understand how awful they are, she spends the entire game of 3 systematically attacking their operations that she can find and destroying them. She will die for this cause if Shepard doesn't back her up. Let's compare this to Jacob in 3 who... dated a scientist and protected her and her friends specifically. Cool job bro.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
In my first ME2 playthrough I got her killed, but I don't recall my exact choices for the Suicide Mission. I'm pretty sure I had Garrus in the vent, Miranda leading the...fire team? Jack doing the barrier and Samara leading the colonists back. And Miranda died at the very end under collapsing rubble. She was also the only character I did not have loyalty for, so I always assumed that was why she croaked.
She died when I set her to do the bubble.
I actually really like Miranda. She comes off as unlikeable but has a legitimate reason for that attitude and is very competent.
If I wrote mass effect 3 I would make maelon's data detrimental to curing the genophage because it's shitty data that sent the other researchers down the wrong path
I'm pretty sure Miranda is unkillable. She was my only non-loyal companion and I pretty much tried to get her killed in the suicide mission but she still somehow survived at the last second.
The funny thing is that from what I remember reading she will totally fuck up every single task she volunteers for if you pick her, but she always manages to kill someone else instead of herself.
Mx. QuillI now prefer "Myr. Quill", actually...{They/Them}Registered Userregular
I know you can get everyone including Shepard killed in the Suicide Mission. But I imagine you have to actively make as many bad decisions throughout the entire game to do so.
You do, yeah. The bad run looks more or less like this:
- No ship upgrades
- No decanting Grunt
- Send Legion off
- No loyalty missions
- Ignore Zaeed or kill him during his loyalty mission
- Use someone not named Jack or Samara for the bubble
- Miranda for the fire team
There's a couple things I'm forgetting, but most of the team will buy the farm if you do that.
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Miranda's a correct choice for the fire team, as is IIRC Garrus. You need a leader.
She's less useful holding the line, though still a better choice than Mordin IIRC.
Miranda's a correct choice for the fire team, as is IIRC Garrus. You need a leader.
She's less useful holding the line, though still a better choice than Mordin IIRC.
According to a guide I saw, any non-loyal person sent to lead the fire team will die except Miranda, who will never die there no matter what. The other job which is otherwise certain death for any non-loyal companion is crew escort, which she is uniquely forbidden from being sent on at all. Someone who designed that mission REALLY liked Miranda. I thought it was impossible for her to be the one who died if she fucked up the biotic shield too, but maybe that was incorrect.
Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
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Shortytouching the meatIntergalactic Cool CourtRegistered Userregular
If I wrote mass effect 3 I would make maelon's data detrimental to curing the genophage because it's shitty data that sent the other researchers down the wrong path
agreed. the way unethical science is usually written is very irritating to me, because the type of scientist who doesn't care about things like informed consent is almost never actually any good at doing science--Mengele didn't learn shit, and neither did the fuckers who ran the Tuskegee study
there doesn't need to be a moral dilemma here! how about there's no reason to do bad, racist science because it doesn't generate any desirable results!
If I wrote mass effect 3 I would make maelon's data detrimental to curing the genophage because it's shitty data that sent the other researchers down the wrong path
agreed. the way unethical science is usually written is very irritating to me, because the type of scientist who doesn't care about things like informed consent is almost never actually any good at doing science--Mengele didn't learn shit, and neither did the fuckers who ran the Tuskegee study
there doesn't need to be a moral dilemma here! how about there's no reason to do bad, racist science because it doesn't generate any desirable results!
While that's true for science done on humans, the space program was enabled by Nazi scientists who were very good at their jobs. I think suggesting that morally disgusting scientists are all terrible at their jobs is a strawman.
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Those people didn't sign up to be martyrs, either
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
I played three rounds and wound up with over a million credits
Yes, although she also says that by the time they realized Maelon was using barbaric methods and in over his head, they were too weak to escape.
Honestly had no idea it was even still running
Is it all fan servers now?
the way it works now, and how it's always worked, is that it has to check in with the mothership at EA at certain points (launching the game, buying boxes, getting credits, etc), but they don't have dedicated servers to act as hosts for the actual game--the computer of whatever player started the lobby does that
basically it's still being supported officially, though minimally, which is pretty wild
She stays true to her word, not only taking every "be a bitch" option with Miranda that presents itself but also refusing to talk to Miranda more than the absolute minimum. She doesn't investigate or extend the conversation in any way, every choice is basically the bottom right. She gloats over how naive Miranda is when Niktets betrayal becomes clear and loudly chooses to ignore the Paragon interrupt to stop Miranda from killing her old friend and is pleased that Miranda had to kill him.
The end fight in this level has some much more aggressive AI and I've always wondered why the AI wasn't like that more often. Even at the lower difficulty level I was forced to keep moving around to different cover and was having to fend off flanking attempts at all times. I wonder why it's like that here when it's decidedly not that way elsewhere.
At the end she does not encourage Miranda to talk to her sister and that's that. In the post-mission conversation on the ship she ends it as quickly as possible and somehow dislikes Miranda even more after that conversation where all Miranda says is "Thank you" and "I trust you and wanted you to know that." After a later mission when checking in with Miranda as part of the "go around the ship talking to people after a mission" cycle she keeps reframing Miranda talking about struggling with her insecurity over her creation and the complex she has developed about it and looking for a friend to talk to as "A big ole pity party woe as me bullshit just so she can brag about how perfect she is." She wants a "suck it up buttercup and get out of my face" dialogue option.
After Miranda we get back on schedule with Samara's loyalty mission. Off to Omega where we get sidetracked by a quick fedex quest for some weird salarians (Sel and Ish) to pick up some data for them. We do that and it's all about how one of Arias henchmen is selling her out. It does not occur to her to take this info to Aria, so she gives it to the Salarians and finds herself in a place where charm option exists without an intimidate option. It's the first time she has seen that and she immediately gets pissed off about not having as many renegade points and now it has bitten her in the ass because she can't pick the option. There's not very many places the game does something like this, but because she imported a character and hasn't had any of the really high level checks like with the arguments between Jack and Miranda or Tali and Legion yet, she hasn't seen a grayed out option that she hasn't met the requirements for yet. So to her only having a charm option looks exactly like not meeting the requirements for a renegade option which is not true in this case. I have not told her how the reputation check requirements are measured and will not do so.
After a short conversation with Aria about Morinths possible location we go talk to a mother who just had her daughter murdered by Morinth. There's a paragon interrupt during this conversation where the grieving mother breaks down into ugly crying and the interrupt pretty clearly is there for you to comfort her. It's actually one of the longer ones in the game, thought not nearly as long as the one on Mordins mission for you shoot the tank while the Krogan is monologue. Still, it was up there for several seconds as this woman is sobbing and crying and she ignored it. She claims she didn't see it or hear the sound it makes and was instead admiring how pretty and shiny the tears on the mother were. Personally I wonder if she's still feeling bitter about not having as many renegade points.
We proceed to VIP Afterlife and cruise around a bit to scope out options. She thinks about punching the creepy guy on the dance floor but instead decides to go pick on a Krogan at the bar. I think she got a taste for krogan headbutts and wants some more. She successfully mouths off to him and uses the intimidate check to stare him down, noticing this time there is no charm option. She celebrates by turning to the bartender to buy a drink "lets get some ryncol!" and charms the bartender into getting a round for everybody and notices there is no intimidate option. She is pissed off there's no intimidate option, but has not connected yet that there was no charm path with the krogan.
After that she picks a fight with some turians that want to mug people in dark alleys and has succesfully attracted Morinths attention. There she is awfully tempted to talk about Justicars, but instead talks about Art and liking the elcor artist Forta that was mentioned in the dead daughters diary, then travel where she busts out a charm option, and finally music where drug use is totally awesome and it's off to Morinths place.
Here there's some more dialogue, where the options are reputation checks on the left or on the right the only option is to fall under Morinths influence. The first two she has both the red and blue options available, but the third check is one of the hardest ones in the game, it's in the top 10 easily, but I think it's like the 4th or 5th most difficult reputation check in ME2. It's when Morinth is trying her hardest to put a mental whammy on Shepard and break down her will. For the first time in the whole game she sees an intimidate option is listed but is grayed out and it finally clicks for her that sometimes there's only one option if there's two sometimes you can't choose between both. Fortunately the charm option is still available to her and she doesn't have to lose control and select the "...Yes...whatever you want mistress..." option. That charm option is basically "Surprise motherfucker!" Samara storms in and the final choice to kill Samara or Morinth is a no-brainer for her, she kills Morinth.
We ended just after checking in with Samara on the Normandy. Though we also caught up with Mordin again and he was all "hey, you need a way to vent some stress and you come by here to talk a lot. I've had aliens hitting on me before and I want to be up front that I'm not interested" which I forgot existed and was hilarious for me to see her react. She picked the "Surely you're yanking my chain here" option.
It's funny that I agree with this but never kept the Collector Base intact. It's basically the same idea, really
Though that's more to flip off TIM cause fuck that guy
Whereas the genophage data is given to Mordin directly
this thread is making me really want to replay me2. I did quite enjoyed me3, but if i take an honest look back at why, it's mostly because i really enjoyed how they wrapped up the character arcs/subplots as opposed to enjoying the actual main plot of it. that being said i played me3 multi to death and was sincerely heart broken when the weekly world events stopped coming right around the release of the final multi dlc pack.
i also will admit to an unhealthy amount of time spent trying to mod the game on pc so i could give shepard all the abilities of the paladin class. spoiler... unsuccessful.
Not a lot happens here, it's a straightforward linear kill things mission. At the end you run into another survivor and have the choice to tell Jack to kill him or not. Somehow she misread the Renegade "do it!" line and was utterly horrified at telling Jack she could be nothing but a killer and encouraging her to execute the guy. She demanded a reload on the basis that she thought it was talking her out of the execution in a renegade way. So we reloaded and she picked the charm option. She did love the bit in the end cutscene where Jack is fiddling with the detonator and then hits it suddenly; this causes Shepards eyes to go wide and then pound on the door to make the pilot go faster.
Since we'd done Jack and Miranda's loyalty missions, this means it's crewmember argument time! Joker informs her that Jack and Miranda are having a violent disagreement and could Shepard handle it before there are holes in the ship? Also send pictures.
Surprisingly the charm option is not available to her for defusing the argument, but the Renegade option is. I guess the renegade path is significantly easier for this check. She is torn between choosing it and telling Miranda to back off to put her in her place. She reasons though that everytime she tries to do that the game doesn't cooperate with her and it doesn't go the way she wants it to and Miranda always has a response and the game doesn't let her respond to it, and she doesn't want Jack to get any ideas, she needs to get in line too, she picks the "cut it out, both you" intimidate option. It basically tells them to keep one deck apart at all times and that they're free to go after eachother after the Collectors are dealt with. Thus she manages to avoid losing Mirandas loyalty though she doesn't know that.
I do not think we will jam through it at anywhere near the same speed, but so far she likes her very badass looking femshep with the cool red hair.
Post updates! We'd already had a big portion of ME1 done when I started posting. We're flying through it so fast because instead of watching stuff on Netflix or whatever we're playing Mass Effect.
AwkwardZombiePickMirandaForTheTunnels.gif
Allow me: https://www.awkwardzombie.com/comic/miranda-dead-to-rights
The funny thing is that from what I remember reading she will totally fuck up every single task she volunteers for if you pick her, but she always manages to kill someone else instead of herself.
She's a good leader! Put her in charge of the second squad and you'll be in good shape.
She is virtually unkillable. Can she be picked to escort the crew back? If so I think that's the only way to get rid of her...elsewhere she'll just get other people killed.
She died when I set her to do the bubble.
I actually really like Miranda. She comes off as unlikeable but has a legitimate reason for that attitude and is very competent.
Satans..... hints.....
She's killable, but it's very difficult to do.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
- No ship upgrades
- No decanting Grunt
- Send Legion off
- No loyalty missions
- Ignore Zaeed or kill him during his loyalty mission
- Use someone not named Jack or Samara for the bubble
- Miranda for the fire team
There's a couple things I'm forgetting, but most of the team will buy the farm if you do that.
She's less useful holding the line, though still a better choice than Mordin IIRC.
agreed. the way unethical science is usually written is very irritating to me, because the type of scientist who doesn't care about things like informed consent is almost never actually any good at doing science--Mengele didn't learn shit, and neither did the fuckers who ran the Tuskegee study
there doesn't need to be a moral dilemma here! how about there's no reason to do bad, racist science because it doesn't generate any desirable results!
While that's true for science done on humans, the space program was enabled by Nazi scientists who were very good at their jobs. I think suggesting that morally disgusting scientists are all terrible at their jobs is a strawman.