The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread 4.0

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Unless you live in Texas or one of these other red states that is throwing open the floodgates once more it is difficult to comprehend just how buck wild it is. Growing up I would never have expected for a virus that kills people to be politicized but here we are.

    Addendum: it should have been obvious that as soon as the GOP learned that black people were dying in disproportionately high percentages, this virus would become political

    Some of them seem to have taken it as white people are genetically resistant. This means they have put it in the "not our problem, who cares, LOL" mental bucket. Given the situation in Italy this is obviously wrong. They could be in for a rude awakening.

    In reality, black people are probably more affected due to issues of poverty (overcrowding, earlier ill-health) and location (more likely to live in cities)

    Currently in the US it is a poor man's disease. That is only because the poor are disproportionately likely to have jobs that cannot be done remotely and so have to continue exposing themselves while everyone else can quarantine. (It's not a universally true proxy, but true often enough to matter) However, people are leaving quarantine. Meaning they are now increasingly exposing themselves like essential workers have been doing throughout. There is nothing about the virus that cares about your race or your status; just your exposure.

    It won't be a poor man's disease come July. At least, across the South where they're masqueing the red death.

    Even if exposure is equal, poor people are more likely to have comorbidities and less likely to have good healthcare

    Comorbidities is certainly an issue, but considering the continued lack of effective treatment access to healthcare isn't much of a saviour. Especially as this spreads to more rural areas where hospital capacity just isn't there regardless of wealth. It's going to hit white folks plenty hard without the preventive measures we were imposing.

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  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    My mom wants to meet this weekend to give me some frozen ground lamb. We live about two hours apart. The proposed plan is to meet in a nature preserve in the middle of nowhere and eat our respective packed lunches together, outside, while staying at least six feet apart. I won't have been grocery shopping for almost two weeks by then, but I've gotten takeout a couple of times. My dad made a grocery run this morning and my parents get takeout a couple of nights a week, but otherwise they've been isolating themselves. Obviously if any of us show symptoms between now and then we won't meet. (My dad won't be there in any case.)

    What does the thread think?

    I haven't seen my parents in months. I really, really want to hug my mom, but seeing her and not touching is still better than not seeing her at all. But I miss my parents and I'm not confident in my risk assessment here.

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    My mom wants to meet this weekend to give me some frozen ground lamb. We live about two hours apart. The proposed plan is to meet in a nature preserve in the middle of nowhere and eat our respective packed lunches together, outside, while staying at least six feet apart. I won't have been grocery shopping for almost two weeks by then, but I've gotten takeout a couple of times. My dad made a grocery run this morning and my parents get takeout a couple of nights a week, but otherwise they've been isolating themselves. Obviously if any of us show symptoms between now and then we won't meet. (My dad won't be there in any case.)

    What does the thread think?

    I haven't seen my parents in months. I really, really want to hug my mom, but seeing her and not touching is still better than not seeing her at all. But I miss my parents and I'm not confident in my risk assessment here.

    That sounds reasonably safe, especially if you try to set things up so that the wind is perpendicular to your picnic, i.e. neither of you is consistently downwind of the other. It is more risky than not seeing them, but as long as you can maintain the willpower to avoid touching the risk should be minimal and the benefit should be noticeable. I think the risk is reasonable for the benefit, but I'm not an expert on this sort of thing so maybe others might have different opinions.

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  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    edited May 20
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    My mom wants to meet this weekend to give me some frozen ground lamb. We live about two hours apart. The proposed plan is to meet in a nature preserve in the middle of nowhere and eat our respective packed lunches together, outside, while staying at least six feet apart. I won't have been grocery shopping for almost two weeks by then, but I've gotten takeout a couple of times. My dad made a grocery run this morning and my parents get takeout a couple of nights a week, but otherwise they've been isolating themselves. Obviously if any of us show symptoms between now and then we won't meet. (My dad won't be there in any case.)

    What does the thread think?

    I haven't seen my parents in months. I really, really want to hug my mom, but seeing her and not touching is still better than not seeing her at all. But I miss my parents and I'm not confident in my risk assessment here.

    That sounds reasonably safe, especially if you try to set things up so that the wind is perpendicular to your picnic, i.e. neither of you is consistently downwind of the other. It is more risky than not seeing them, but as long as you can maintain the willpower to avoid touching the risk should be minimal and the benefit should be noticeable. I think the risk is reasonable for the benefit, but I'm not an expert on this sort of thing so maybe others might have different opinions.

    I'm having a bad night - no contact with either set of parents for my wife and I, my kid is miserable, we're miserable

    Both sets of parents are coming over this weekend and we're cooking at home. Probably nobody will be masked nor six feet apart. I'm scared about it but I don't want to make hay, they've been quarantined even from like getting groceries, and I miss them.

    The idea of having to drive out to nowhere and hold my wet finger up to the fucking wind is just

    I'm going to have a major depressive break before that happens.

    SummaryJudgment on
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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Javen wrote: »
    I don't wear a mask when I'm outside exercising.

    Back when I was in the Army, the post Command Sargent Major did his daily morning run with his gas mask and flack vest on. You have to train for it, but it can be done.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
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  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    My job (in Texas) is getting ready to start bringing people back. They seem to be doing a measured, cautious approach and I can probably stay home as long as I want (even if I'm 5 minutes away).

    My wife was just layed off after being furloughed for two months. Pre-pandemic she had already been looking for a new job but this moves that up on the priority list in a very bad time.

  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    edited May 20
    furlion wrote: »


    This might help convince people you know, so I am posting it here. The incredible difference in the rate of death is just staggering.

    IDK what to do with my coworkers, they flat out don't believe the deaths are covid related at all, everyone's just making them up

    they have glommed onto the single data point that prisons have 95+% asymptomatic positive rates, and the low death count in prisons nation wide as proof that the virus is not a threat at all

    and of course the prisons, and those upstream of them in the various depts, haven't fucked with those numbers at all.

    Commander Zoom on
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  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Hackerman Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    My mom wants to meet this weekend to give me some frozen ground lamb. We live about two hours apart. The proposed plan is to meet in a nature preserve in the middle of nowhere and eat our respective packed lunches together, outside, while staying at least six feet apart. I won't have been grocery shopping for almost two weeks by then, but I've gotten takeout a couple of times. My dad made a grocery run this morning and my parents get takeout a couple of nights a week, but otherwise they've been isolating themselves. Obviously if any of us show symptoms between now and then we won't meet. (My dad won't be there in any case.)

    What does the thread think?

    I haven't seen my parents in months. I really, really want to hug my mom, but seeing her and not touching is still better than not seeing her at all. But I miss my parents and I'm not confident in my risk assessment here.

    That sounds reasonably safe, especially if you try to set things up so that the wind is perpendicular to your picnic, i.e. neither of you is consistently downwind of the other. It is more risky than not seeing them, but as long as you can maintain the willpower to avoid touching the risk should be minimal and the benefit should be noticeable. I think the risk is reasonable for the benefit, but I'm not an expert on this sort of thing so maybe others might have different opinions.

    I'm having a bad night - no contact with either set of parents for my wife and I, my kid is miserable, we're miserable

    Both sets of parents are coming over this weekend and we're cooking at home. Probably nobody will be masked nor six feet apart. I'm scared about it but I don't want to make hay, they've been quarantined even from like getting groceries, and I miss them.

    The idea of having to drive out to nowhere and hold my wet finger up to the fucking wind is just

    I'm going to have a major depressive break before that happens.

    We're stuck in Florida and all our loved ones are back in California. Our parents are in their 70s. My sister is halfway through a pregnancy and her and her husband are both essential workers. She's a social worker for the homeless and her husband is a defense contractor. Fuckin' terrified somebody in my family's gonna come down with it but there's nothing to be done.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    My mom wants to meet this weekend to give me some frozen ground lamb. We live about two hours apart. The proposed plan is to meet in a nature preserve in the middle of nowhere and eat our respective packed lunches together, outside, while staying at least six feet apart. I won't have been grocery shopping for almost two weeks by then, but I've gotten takeout a couple of times. My dad made a grocery run this morning and my parents get takeout a couple of nights a week, but otherwise they've been isolating themselves. Obviously if any of us show symptoms between now and then we won't meet. (My dad won't be there in any case.)

    What does the thread think?

    I haven't seen my parents in months. I really, really want to hug my mom, but seeing her and not touching is still better than not seeing her at all. But I miss my parents and I'm not confident in my risk assessment here.

    This seems safe enough. Have her bring the meat in paper, virus doesn't live as long on it than plastic stuff.

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  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Hackerman Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    I don't wear a mask when I'm outside exercising.

    Back when I was in the Army, the post Command Sargent Major did his daily morning run with his gas mask and flack vest on. You have to train for it, but it can be done.

    I don't usually do it with my respirator (but I've worn it plenty of times at actions) but I do go for hikes in plate steel body armor for the weight training. In Florida. In the swamp. In the heat. Depending on how many other people are out I may wear a light hoodie over it so I don't freak them out.

    Hell of an effective workout tbh, and I'm not even running.

    Just_Bri_Thanksstopgap
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    chrisnl wrote: »
    Calica wrote: »
    My mom wants to meet this weekend to give me some frozen ground lamb. We live about two hours apart. The proposed plan is to meet in a nature preserve in the middle of nowhere and eat our respective packed lunches together, outside, while staying at least six feet apart. I won't have been grocery shopping for almost two weeks by then, but I've gotten takeout a couple of times. My dad made a grocery run this morning and my parents get takeout a couple of nights a week, but otherwise they've been isolating themselves. Obviously if any of us show symptoms between now and then we won't meet. (My dad won't be there in any case.)

    What does the thread think?

    I haven't seen my parents in months. I really, really want to hug my mom, but seeing her and not touching is still better than not seeing her at all. But I miss my parents and I'm not confident in my risk assessment here.

    That sounds reasonably safe, especially if you try to set things up so that the wind is perpendicular to your picnic, i.e. neither of you is consistently downwind of the other. It is more risky than not seeing them, but as long as you can maintain the willpower to avoid touching the risk should be minimal and the benefit should be noticeable. I think the risk is reasonable for the benefit, but I'm not an expert on this sort of thing so maybe others might have different opinions.

    I'm having a bad night - no contact with either set of parents for my wife and I, my kid is miserable, we're miserable

    Both sets of parents are coming over this weekend and we're cooking at home. Probably nobody will be masked nor six feet apart. I'm scared about it but I don't want to make hay, they've been quarantined even from like getting groceries, and I miss them.

    The idea of having to drive out to nowhere and hold my wet finger up to the fucking wind is just

    I'm going to have a major depressive break before that happens.

    I hope for the best for you! I don't really get it, myself, because I am probably in the top 1% of introverted people in the world, but I believe people when they say this situation is wearing on them greatly. I can't make decisions for you because I don't know your exact situation and how you are handling things, but I can give advice if people ask for it. I try not to give unsolicited advice in general, even though I am the type of person that appreciates that kind of thing I know many people do not. I certainly won't condemn anybody for making a decision they feel is best for them and their own physical and mental health, unless it's something like going out to protest with a gun or rocket launcher and basically denying the facts that should be clear to people everywhere.

    I do try and have empathy for other people's situations, though it can be easy to forget that not everybody is like me. I might get temporarily angry at my neighbors for throwing a party, but that will pass and I won't act on my anger or anything. So best wishes for your weekend get together, I hope things work out well.

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    IDK what to do with my coworkers, they flat out don't believe the deaths are covid related at all, everyone's just making them up

    they have glommed onto the single data point that prisons have 95+% asymptomatic positive rates, and the low death count in prisons nation wide as proof that the virus is not a threat at all

    They weren't asymptomatic, just pre-symptomatic. The tight confines of prisons, like cruise ships, are perfect for rapid spread of SARS2.

    Ohio prisons have already seen 61 confirmed deaths. Not counting the two unconfirmed deaths, divided into the number of positive cases (which isn't how you're supposed to do it since some of those positive cases are ongoing and could still lead to death BUT OH WELL) there's a 1.3% death rate. The form does not list how many people are nastily sick, for how long, or how many are left with complications even after "recovery" either.

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  • RiusRius Registered User regular
    Oh hey this thread's doing the thing where it never updates your read status

    Anyway yeah, I'm not going to go to the gym again, I was just bitching that I wanted to. Small problems vOv

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  • WeaverWeaver Who are you? What do you want?Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    Ugh, I did a thing and got an order to get tested for covid antibodies so I can know for sure if this is what had back in early March or not, but then the website to make the appointment isn't working right now.

    edit: yay looks like I can just do a walk-in at the lab if it comes to it.

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    I'm starting to feel weary about getting pissed about people outdoors without masks. Outdoors, especially fleeting contact outdoors, seems to not be the main vector of transmission. As long as a decent number of people are masked I'm too tired to get stressed about the others, as long as they're not also just lingering in tight quarters in groups. Yeah it's sloppy. So's stranger sex without a condom. You can't stop people from banging and you can only expect so many others to voluntarily do it safely. it's just a lot more visible when it's a condom for your face.

    It can travel 15 feet in under 2 seconds with 5 mph winds. While it does most likely require more exposure than once, this shit is deadly and spreads like the plague.

    JaysonFour
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    I'm starting to feel weary about getting pissed about people outdoors without masks. Outdoors, especially fleeting contact outdoors, seems to not be the main vector of transmission. As long as a decent number of people are masked I'm too tired to get stressed about the others, as long as they're not also just lingering in tight quarters in groups. Yeah it's sloppy. So's stranger sex without a condom. You can't stop people from banging and you can only expect so many others to voluntarily do it safely. it's just a lot more visible when it's a condom for your face.

    It can travel 15 feet in under 2 seconds with 5 mph winds. While it does most likely require more exposure than once, this shit is deadly and spreads like the plague.

    Yeah outdoors doesn’t mean you can’t catch it, but you’d need like a direct hit by a sneeze or couple of coughs (or touch droplets then touch your face)

    Indoors, though, over a long enough time sharing air, you’re fucked

  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Hakkekage wrote: »
    I'm starting to feel weary about getting pissed about people outdoors without masks. Outdoors, especially fleeting contact outdoors, seems to not be the main vector of transmission. As long as a decent number of people are masked I'm too tired to get stressed about the others, as long as they're not also just lingering in tight quarters in groups. Yeah it's sloppy. So's stranger sex without a condom. You can't stop people from banging and you can only expect so many others to voluntarily do it safely. it's just a lot more visible when it's a condom for your face.

    It can travel 15 feet in under 2 seconds with 5 mph winds. While it does most likely require more exposure than once, this shit is deadly and spreads like the plague.

    Which will spread the cloud widely, probably beyond what's needed for infection. There's a reason most traced clusters are in close quarters or areas with poor circulation.

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  • MagellMagell Sphinx! Parts UnknownRegistered User regular
    Rius wrote: »
    Oh hey this thread's doing the thing where it never updates your read status

    Anyway yeah, I'm not going to go to the gym again, I was just bitching that I wanted to. Small problems vOv

    I get the feeling, but there are lots of places and youtube channels uploading body weight workouts. If you have a small apartment/house yoga gives you a good workout and doesn't require much space.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »


    This might help convince people you know, so I am posting it here. The incredible difference in the rate of death is just staggering.

    IDK what to do with my coworkers, they flat out don't believe the deaths are covid related at all, everyone's just making them up

    they have glommed onto the single data point that prisons have 95+% asymptomatic positive rates, and the low death count in prisons nation wide as proof that the virus is not a threat at all

    Ask them to calculate how many will die if the Virus has a 0.2% death rate (which would be a miracle equal to like, Jesus descending from the sky and curing us) and 80% of people catch it in the US.

    Quick hint for them. Its 575,000 people.

    The virus is new. Noone is immune. Even if it literally WAS flu, it could still kill 300,000 Americans if there was no immunity and no vaccine.

    I'm pretty down in the dumps about our prospects here, but, I just don't see any way that anyone could believe the virus is completely harmless. It's very dangerous simply from its novelty. The fact its at 5-10 x as deadly as a bad flu season is just an extra shotgun in the face.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    And now, some levity from a resident of Atlanta


    Hitler hasn't heard that the amount of pollen produced by trees is a function of temperature, because the half life of pollen depends on the heat. Trees know this, but don't want to waste energy making pollen, but also want to make sure they make enough. So, if it gets warmer they produce more pollen according to an exponential growth curve function of temperature to make sure there is enough live pollen hitting other flowers.

    Yet another example of an exponential growth curve at work in biological systems screwing humans over, but it really being us screwing ourselves over.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    My job is talking about getting people back into the office around July. I feel like that's not going to happen (thank god).

  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/de-andere-rekening-van-de-coronazorg-door-uitgestelde-zorg-gingen-100-tot-400-duizend-levensjaren-verloren~bd73a0d5/

    Article in Dutch....

    A really sobering story that 3 months of people not calling ambulances as fast, surgeries being postponed, not meeting with doctors will cost approximately 10.000 people 10 years of their lives on average. Or a total loss of 100000 lifeyears. For the Netherlands, who got hit hard but skirted a disaster, this is about 1.5x the impact of the virus itself as it stands today (Est 8000 lethal cases, 40k lost lifeyears).
    And this fraction will get worse the longer it goes on.

    This does not factor worsening health due to changing circumstances itself, only people missing the "regular flow" of healthcare.

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    I've enjoyed my time in isolation. Staying at home all day watching Netflix and playing video games is pretty much my end-game anyway.

    Like, sometimes I wonder what I would do if I was suddenly a millionaire. What would I do with all that money?

    And the answer is that I would probably still just watch Netflix and play video games all day.

    On a bigger screen.

    In a nicer house.

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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I've enjoyed my time in isolation. Staying at home all day watching Netflix and playing video games is pretty much my end-game anyway.

    Like, sometimes I wonder what I would do if I was suddenly a millionaire. What would I do with all that money?

    And the answer is that I would probably still just watch Netflix and play video games all day.

    On a bigger screen.

    In a nicer house.

    Meanwhile, I have given up paying any bills except rent and I likely won't be able to do that next month.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    moniker wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Unless you live in Texas or one of these other red states that is throwing open the floodgates once more it is difficult to comprehend just how buck wild it is. Growing up I would never have expected for a virus that kills people to be politicized but here we are.

    Addendum: it should have been obvious that as soon as the GOP learned that black people were dying in disproportionately high percentages, this virus would become political

    Some of them seem to have taken it as white people are genetically resistant. This means they have put it in the "not our problem, who cares, LOL" mental bucket. Given the situation in Italy this is obviously wrong. They could be in for a rude awakening.

    In reality, black people are probably more affected due to issues of poverty (overcrowding, earlier ill-health) and location (more likely to live in cities)

    Currently in the US it is a poor man's disease. That is only because the poor are disproportionately likely to have jobs that cannot be done remotely and so have to continue exposing themselves while everyone else can quarantine. (It's not a universally true proxy, but true often enough to matter) However, people are leaving quarantine. Meaning they are now increasingly exposing themselves like essential workers have been doing throughout. There is nothing about the virus that cares about your race or your status; just your exposure.

    It won't be a poor man's disease come July. At least, across the South where they're masqueing the red death.

    Even if exposure is equal, poor people are more likely to have comorbidities and less likely to have good healthcare

    Comorbidities is certainly an issue, but considering the continued lack of effective treatment access to healthcare isn't much of a saviour. Especially as this spreads to more rural areas where hospital capacity just isn't there regardless of wealth. It's going to hit white folks plenty hard without the preventive measures we were imposing.

    I meant more that they may have poorer health to start with due to historically less access to healthcare, so increasing their vulnerability to the virus. As opposed to less access to treatment for the virus itself.

    Like, I presume two people with type 1 diabetes are not going to be at equal risk if one of them has previously had to ration their insulin.

    Brovid Hasselsmof on
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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    I'd wager either late next month or early July, a ton of jackasses are going to get a brutal reality check. Hell, maybe even earlier next month, given how fucking cavalier some of these shits are.

    We have a few things pushing the bullshit here.

    -The oligarchy is shit and has been pushing against the idea of any sort of subsidy for people in quarantine. This of course creates a scenario where you get people at the bottom agitating for the quarantine to end because financially they can't cope with it being long term. BTW thanks to Trump being a petty little shit from the oligarchy, we can probably assume that the pandemic recession will be harsher and longer than it needs to be because not only will he push hard against giving people subsidies to survive, but he'll also push against giving states that likely won't vote for him bailouts (the house isn't going to accept bailouts for only red states, so unless Trump gives or enough republicans turn on him, no state will get bailed out) and the lack of federal assistance means recovery will be much slower, since shitheads in the 1% tend to not understand that state government jobs are in fact jobs and that state government spending tends to be a huge economic engine.

    -A ton of these people are idiots. You don't understand how virus transmission works. Rural backwaters are the last places to get hit with a pandemic because not many people have a reason to go to them. The lockdown was actually safeguarding them from infection because it created even less chances for someone to bring it into their communities. I mean those places don't get much in the way of outside travel, but it does exist and sometimes it's the residents of those place going outside of them because their community has fuck all to offer and the only option is to go to the super Walmart or head into an actual city. The way the lockout down has ended and the cavalier attitude has probably just up the likelihood that covid spreads like wildfire in southern rural communities and few other places. They were the first to open and then all idiots encouraged and when to these communities once they reopen. Not to mention increases the likelihood that this get further spread in areas that were already hit.

    -They are under the mistaken impression that this is just the poor man's disease or the minority's disease because again they don't understand how things work. You tend to have a greater concentration of minorities in cities because of this countries fucked up racial history. A history that is also a big contributor to our prison system being Jim Crow 2.0 and given how fucking cruel a ton of evangelicals are willing to be to people that are convicted of a crime, it's little wonder that a number of prisons have seen huge outbreaks of covid because conditions in our prison system tend to be ripe for a highly infectious disease to spread. If we look at nursing home, I'd wager that tends to skew more towards the not-rich crowd because if you're aren't a super wealthy old person, you really don't have the option of hiring in house care if your health tanks enough o cripple you ability to live independently. On the poor man part, which currently hits on the racial disparities, most of the jobs that were kept going aren't jobs manned by people with huge financial security. Again with the virus hitting cities and ports of entry first, along with the economic and racial issues, it was probably a given that covid death's would skew more towards minorities.

    Thing is this is going to make it's way out to areas that are much, much whiter and many of these areas have been actively opposed to any all measures to combat covid's spread because they are horrible people that allowed themselves to politicize this. Same deal with the rich assholes, eventually, this disease makes it way into the homes of the wealthy for many of the reasons it finally hits rural communities. They aren't doing anything to halt the spread and in some cases are going out of their way to increase the risk to own the libs. Instead of only having to worry about the disease coming in via a delivery driver or someone going to the nearest Wal-Mart, they've pretty created a scenario where they are inviting in just about everyone that is going out of there way to get infected in a vain attempt to prove the libs wrong. If they are in area that isn't reopened, they're going to any re-opened areas that they can "reasonably" reach and doing shit to stick to the libs. So Imagine, there will be a few places where they'll see a large cluster of infections spontaneously appearing. As for the wealthy, I'm pretty sure many of them are still bringing in help because they are too good to cook, do laundry and clean the mansion/condo, while going out to their social gathering because "Ohohoho covid is only a threat to the peasants." They forget the so-called peasants are the help they are hiring to do chores around the house and that provides the services at their social gatherings. I'd wager any help that is relatively well payed to the point they could go into lockdown, likely some chunk of that help is, so some wealthy jackasses are probably having hire people desperate for work that weren't exactly following lockdown protocol to begin with. Also if the various scandals of the Trump administration and current republican officials is any indication, there are plenty of rich d-bags that are fucking cheap, so probably enough of such types hiring individuals that could never afford to go into lockdown, that will ensure that every rich person going to those gatherings is at risk, even if some of them only go the most upscale venue that won't hire any random person.

    Hell, one of the things that drives me fucking nuts watching, listening and reading stuff on this outbreak, is that people don't understand how exposure risk works. Yes, if you're in a low pop area and don't frequently mingle, you have a lower risk of exposure but only during the times of day where you're setup is like that. If you're still going to church on Sunday and everyone else that attends that church shows up as well and it's like over a 100 people there for 1-2 hours (including worship and the social after service mingling), well being a social recluse for the rest of the week won't fucking matter because if someone shows up to church with the current plague, high chance you get it. If you have to go to the nearest Super Walmart, but refuse to wear a mask and that Walmart is packed and you're in there 15+ minutes, with tons of other people not wearing masks or bothering with social distancing, well your chances are getting covid go up a ton if someone has it. If you go to the office or work and others aren't bothering with any precautions, even if it's only for a few hours, your risk of infection goes up; especially, if you have to make a 1-2 hour commute to a city for your job. I'd argue in modern society, "I live in a rural area, so I can't get the current plague!" is one of the fucking dumbest expressions someone can make because where the fuck you live is irrelevant for fighting things like covid. What matters is which of your activities put you in an environment that greatly increases you risk of catching something, by ensuring you are exposed long enough for something to take. Crowded public gatherings are not a thing limited to just the city and are a thing that can and does happen just about anywhere that has people and something they deem worth gathering for.

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  • MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    moniker wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    Unless you live in Texas or one of these other red states that is throwing open the floodgates once more it is difficult to comprehend just how buck wild it is. Growing up I would never have expected for a virus that kills people to be politicized but here we are.

    Addendum: it should have been obvious that as soon as the GOP learned that black people were dying in disproportionately high percentages, this virus would become political

    Some of them seem to have taken it as white people are genetically resistant. This means they have put it in the "not our problem, who cares, LOL" mental bucket. Given the situation in Italy this is obviously wrong. They could be in for a rude awakening.

    In reality, black people are probably more affected due to issues of poverty (overcrowding, earlier ill-health) and location (more likely to live in cities)

    Currently in the US it is a poor man's disease. That is only because the poor are disproportionately likely to have jobs that cannot be done remotely and so have to continue exposing themselves while everyone else can quarantine. (It's not a universally true proxy, but true often enough to matter) However, people are leaving quarantine. Meaning they are now increasingly exposing themselves like essential workers have been doing throughout. There is nothing about the virus that cares about your race or your status; just your exposure.

    It won't be a poor man's disease come July. At least, across the South where they're masqueing the red death.

    Even if exposure is equal, poor people are more likely to have comorbidities and less likely to have good healthcare

    Comorbidities is certainly an issue, but considering the continued lack of effective treatment access to healthcare isn't much of a saviour. Especially as this spreads to more rural areas where hospital capacity just isn't there regardless of wealth. It's going to hit white folks plenty hard without the preventive measures we were imposing.

    I meant more that they may have poorer health to start with due to historically less access to healthcare, so increasing their vulnerability to the virus. As opposed to less access to treatment for the virus itself.

    Like, I presume two people with type 1 diabetes are not going to be at equal risk if one of them has previously had to ration their insulin.

    Type-1 Diabetes isn't even considered a risk factor if your blood sugar is well regulated. So definitely true.

    Edit: Source is my type-1 diabetic wife who was told this. She has both a pump and a CGM device (continuous glucose measurement) so hopefully her diabetes won't complicate to the covid-19 when/if we get it.

    Movitz on
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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    It sure feels like the quarantine efforts are over in Pennsylvania. Governor Wolf and Dr. Levine are doing all they can, I think, and people have been pissing and moaning and protesting and threatening their lives and now everyone is talking about Memorial Day picnics and vacations

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  • Darth WaiterDarth Waiter Elrond Hubbard Mordor XenuRegistered User regular
    It sure feels like the quarantine efforts are over in Pennsylvania. Governor Wolf and Dr. Levine are doing all they can, I think, and people have been pissing and moaning and protesting and threatening their lives and now everyone is talking about Memorial Day picnics and vacations

    A week after Memorial Day is going to be a wake-up call for a lot of people; even without picnics and various whatnot social events, there are going to be a lot of retail outlets having blowout sales to recoup some of the losses of the last couple of months.

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  • SatanIsMyMotorSatanIsMyMotor Registered User regular
    I was on a call last night for a work "happy hour" with my extended team and it was honestly pretty disturbing. I was the only Canadian there in an otherwise fully American group so when the conversation turned to what people would be doing for the Memorial Day weekend I didn't have a ton of input so I just listened.

    Literally all of them are just doing whatever they want. They had essentially all decided that they had "done enough" to flatten the curve (despite some of them being in NY, etc.) and would be going out with family on big excursions for the weekend. These are all highly educated people that are otherwise completely intelligent. I was gob-smacked.

    Hearing the perspective across people in multiple states I came to the conclusion that it boils down to a lack of leadership and direction. Trump is obviously not to be listened to so it seems like people are turning to guidance from elsewhere - for some it's Fauci, for some it's their state reps, others it's their doctor, and for some it's just their friends.

    That level of confusion just leaves us in a state of complete ineffectiveness. Everybody is just doing what they want. It's the dark side of "liberty" and it was honestly a bit infuriating to listen to.

    I know that as an outsider this maybe comes off as being judgemental and that's not my intention. I see us all being in this together (especially those of us land-locked together) and it just sucks seeing things kind of quietly unravel.

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  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    SanderJK wrote: »
    https://www.volkskrant.nl/wetenschap/de-andere-rekening-van-de-coronazorg-door-uitgestelde-zorg-gingen-100-tot-400-duizend-levensjaren-verloren~bd73a0d5/

    Article in Dutch....

    A really sobering story that 3 months of people not calling ambulances as fast, surgeries being postponed, not meeting with doctors will cost approximately 10.000 people 10 years of their lives on average. Or a total loss of 100000 lifeyears. For the Netherlands, who got hit hard but skirted a disaster, this is about 1.5x the impact of the virus itself as it stands today (Est 8000 lethal cases, 40k lost lifeyears).
    And this fraction will get worse the longer it goes on.

    This does not factor worsening health due to changing circumstances itself, only people missing the "regular flow" of healthcare.

    The sun is shining, the temperature is rising, and the roads are getting clogged with people going to the beach.

    I'm trying not to panic, but... I get the feeling this is going to get a lot worse in another couple of weeks.

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  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie Future world ruler Registered User regular
    At work, we're opening up our doors again to the public on June 1. So that's cool I guess... :?

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    At work, we're opening up our doors again to the public on June 1. So that's cool I guess... :?

    This is what will cause the spike more than the beach

    Captain Inertia on
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  • DoctorArchDoctorArch Curmudgeon Registered User regular
    I had a conference call the other day where one of my co-workers, who I like very much, started talking about how coronavirus/covid-19 was all hyped up by social media and he scoffed at wearing a mask and that swine flu was just as bad.

    Aside from the rest of the nonsense, it took me about a minute to confirm that swine flu had about 12,000 deaths over a year while covid-19 had eclipsed that by a factor of 8 in about two months.

    I just get so weary taking my time to look into the facts to counter off-the-cuff bullshit, only for it to be followed up by a gish gallop of more bullshit.

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  • Shazkar ShadowstormShazkar Shadowstorm Registered User regular
    I’m officially on WFH till 2021 at least

    This expensive apartment I signed a lease on in NYC that started March 1 was abysmal timing because I haven’t been there more than 5 nights
    (Hooray, first time living alone, finally! Oh wait, your timing was truly impeccable)

    All my shit is there

    When and why the fuck will I bother going back though

    poo
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Hackerman Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I've enjoyed my time in isolation. Staying at home all day watching Netflix and playing video games is pretty much my end-game anyway.

    Like, sometimes I wonder what I would do if I was suddenly a millionaire. What would I do with all that money?

    And the answer is that I would probably still just watch Netflix and play video games all day.

    On a bigger screen.

    In a nicer house.

    Meanwhile, I have given up paying any bills except rent and I likely won't be able to do that next month.

    How much you need? Could prolly kick a couple hundred your way.

    ElvenshaeCalica
  • mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    I had a coworker get it and luckily no one else did. He's young, and has recovered.

    Which has unfortunately led to a whoooole lot of "oh so even if you get it, it's not that bad!"

    I expected once someone got it reality would kick in and we'd be allowed a lot more work from home. Since he's recovered they've actually increased the amount of time I need to be in the office.

    It's infuriating.

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  • TheDrifterTheDrifter Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    Went to Sams Club ( in Houston) the other day to stock up on bulk stuff. First time in a store in over a month. Nearly everyone in the place was wearing a mask, other than a trio of older white folks who also caused a ruckus at the front of the line to get in, I assume because they didn’t want to wait their turn.

    Boomers gonna boomer.

    TheDrifter on
  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Today we will paint a mountain that owes us nothing. Registered User regular
    edited May 21
    DoctorArch wrote: »
    I had a conference call the other day where one of my co-workers, who I like very much, started talking about how coronavirus/covid-19 was all hyped up by social media and he scoffed at wearing a mask and that swine flu was just as bad.

    Aside from the rest of the nonsense, it took me about a minute to confirm that swine flu had about 12,000 deaths over a year while covid-19 had eclipsed that by a factor of 8 in about two months.

    I just get so weary taking my time to look into the facts to counter off-the-cuff bullshit, only for it to be followed up by a gish gallop of more bullshit.

    save your energy? They don't want to hear it and you don't enjoy doing it

    SummaryJudgment on
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Also lets keep in mind the H1N1 Pandemic under Obama was a very bad flu year. And it still doesn't compare.

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