The General [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread 4.0

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/us/aap-kids-physically-in-school-wellness-trnd/index.html
    As states grapple with how to safely start the upcoming school year, the American Academy of Pediatrics is pushing for students to be physically present in classrooms rather than continue in remote learning for the sake of their well-being.
    The group, which represents and guides pediatricians across the country, updated its back-to-school recommendations to say evidence shows the academic, mental and physical benefits of in-person learning outweigh the risks from the coronavirus.
    "The AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school," the group said on its website.

    This is remarkably short sighted.

    Eh, home/online schooling is pretty unequivocally shit and I can see it being harmful in the long term.

    It seems to be one of the lower risk things on the whole with adequate precautions, so maybe society could give up their beach trips/bar crawl binge drinking/eyes wide shut costume orgies for a little bit as an offset so that kids don’t have to go without a whole year of proper schooling?

    I admire your optimism at what society would be willing to sacrifice to allow children to go back to school safely.

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  • tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    97234lkjzjzi.png

    lets check in and see what the big financial brains have to say... oh

    Every single last little part of that has me hyperventilating with rage. Are there studies out yet that say it's worth that price point, or is it still in the "might be slightly useful maybe" stage? Like, don't put me on that, I'm not paying for it for the slight maybe-benefit it seems to show. I'll take my chances with the disease.

    This ire is not directed at you at all but just reading the phrase 'worth the price point' as it pertains to treatment of a potentially deadly and extremely infectious disease has my face turning red

    Yeah I know, but I live in the US and that's where we are. And generally speaking, you can't put a price on life. Frankly, I don't even know where I was going with it. It wouldn't have been better to charge a bunch if it saved more lives. Preliminary studies don't seem to show there's much there and if that's the case IMO it probably shouldn't be offered. They shouldn't be talking about how much they're going to charge for it at all before they know it's worthwhile in the first place. I think the real reason they're talking about it this way is that they already stepped up production assuming it would be worth it, and they are going to push the ever-loving shit out of it either way.

    You CAN put a price on life. Half the reason we're in this mess is that we as a country in the US refuse to admit that we can and should do that. Every other country in the world engages in cost controls by starting from the foundational assumption that there is a reasonable price that society should be willing to pay to extend the life of one of it's members by one year, and if that year is shitty, then the price should be discounted. Not making this assumption is why the US operates in this ridiculous price fugue state where you might be billed a million dollars for a CT scan, or $500k for a week in a hospital bed. Because you 'can't put a price on life', which translates to saying, "There is no price too great to charge for something which saves lives" which in turn translates to saying, "As this item has infinite value, it is fair that it is denied to those who are poor"

    In the US market, the price is absolutely worth it. If you are administered the drug, you may expect to save ~$9000 off the price of your hospital stay, and you may expect your bed to be available for someone else 4 days sooner, potentially saving more lives. A Phase 3 double blind placebo clinical trial has been completed and returned statistically significant results. The drug works. This is not some random preprint. Both the EU and US have approved its use to treat Covid19. The drug may do more than just reduce your hospital stay time, but, the trial was not large enough to prove that, primarily because not very many of the low severity control group died and so the experiment lacked enough power to prove that it could help them (because the low severity control groups bar overlaps with the best possible data point for remdesivir even if it cured every patient in the group)

    The US insurance industry has many problems, but the inability to put a dollar value on a life and the treatments that can extend it is definitely not one of them. They manage to do those calculations all the time. The US system just places a higher value on corporate profits.

    Clearly insurance programs put a price on lives (although they actually put a price on customer retention which isn't quite the same) but we like to pretend they don't do that and want to pretend that it is reasonable and expected to spend infinite money to save every patient.

    In the US, you may get landed with a bill for a million dollars worth of procedures whose overall expected return was like, a 15% chance of 6 months more life. In other countries, those drugs and treatments just wouldn't be deployed because they aren't worth it.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
  • Emerlmaster999Emerlmaster999 Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    Trace wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/us/aap-kids-physically-in-school-wellness-trnd/index.html
    As states grapple with how to safely start the upcoming school year, the American Academy of Pediatrics is pushing for students to be physically present in classrooms rather than continue in remote learning for the sake of their well-being.
    The group, which represents and guides pediatricians across the country, updated its back-to-school recommendations to say evidence shows the academic, mental and physical benefits of in-person learning outweigh the risks from the coronavirus.
    "The AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school," the group said on its website.

    This is remarkably short sighted.

    Eh, home/online schooling is pretty unequivocally shit and I can see it being harmful in the long term.

    It seems to be one of the lower risk things on the whole with adequate precautions, so maybe society could give up their beach trips/bar crawl binge drinking/eyes wide shut costume orgies for a little bit as an offset so that kids don’t have to go without a whole year of proper schooling?

    I admire your optimism at what society would be willing to sacrifice to allow children to go back to school safely.

    Yeah, Americans won't give up their precious assault rifles to ensure kids don't die at school so they most definitely will not give up going out to restaurants to try and help.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Why are so many of my family members f'n insane? One of my sisters who I used to think was one of the sane ones put up a meme about how "lockdown was a mistake" - she lives in Texas and even dumbell Greg Abbot finally figured out that maybe we need lockdown after all. How can anyone be that deluded? No wonder she still gets along with my parents. JFC.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I saw a tweet from Chelsea Clinton that was sadly true. Trump could have saved lives if he had sold trump 2020 masks. Like how sad is that, if the president had tried to merchandise a pandemic lives would be saved.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Ha, sister blocked me because of my response to her dumbass meme. Saves me the trouble.

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  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Trace wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/us/aap-kids-physically-in-school-wellness-trnd/index.html
    As states grapple with how to safely start the upcoming school year, the American Academy of Pediatrics is pushing for students to be physically present in classrooms rather than continue in remote learning for the sake of their well-being.
    The group, which represents and guides pediatricians across the country, updated its back-to-school recommendations to say evidence shows the academic, mental and physical benefits of in-person learning outweigh the risks from the coronavirus.
    "The AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school," the group said on its website.

    This is remarkably short sighted.

    Eh, home/online schooling is pretty unequivocally shit and I can see it being harmful in the long term.

    It seems to be one of the lower risk things on the whole with adequate precautions, so maybe society could give up their beach trips/bar crawl binge drinking/eyes wide shut costume orgies for a little bit as an offset so that kids don’t have to go without a whole year of proper schooling?

    Yeah I agree so hard with the first sentence, it is not possible to effectively teach young kids unless you are ridiculously invested and IMO trained to do so.
    Preacher wrote: »
    I saw a tweet from Chelsea Clinton that was sadly true. Trump could have saved lives if he had sold trump 2020 masks. Like how sad is that, if the president had tried to merchandise a pandemic lives would be saved.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: of all the ways I thought capitalism would fail us in a pandemic situation, this one caught me by surprise.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    Trace wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/us/aap-kids-physically-in-school-wellness-trnd/index.html
    As states grapple with how to safely start the upcoming school year, the American Academy of Pediatrics is pushing for students to be physically present in classrooms rather than continue in remote learning for the sake of their well-being.
    The group, which represents and guides pediatricians across the country, updated its back-to-school recommendations to say evidence shows the academic, mental and physical benefits of in-person learning outweigh the risks from the coronavirus.
    "The AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school," the group said on its website.

    This is remarkably short sighted.

    Eh, home/online schooling is pretty unequivocally shit and I can see it being harmful in the long term.

    It seems to be one of the lower risk things on the whole with adequate precautions, so maybe society could give up their beach trips/bar crawl binge drinking/eyes wide shut costume orgies for a little bit as an offset so that kids don’t have to go without a whole year of proper schooling?

    Yeah I agree so hard with the first sentence, it is not possible to effectively teach young kids unless you are ridiculously invested and IMO trained to do so.
    Preacher wrote: »
    I saw a tweet from Chelsea Clinton that was sadly true. Trump could have saved lives if he had sold trump 2020 masks. Like how sad is that, if the president had tried to merchandise a pandemic lives would be saved.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: of all the ways I thought capitalism would fail us in a pandemic situation, this one caught me by surprise.

    It is crazy they could have monetized masks! Easy to produce helps everyone! But no because they had to stick to their dumb guns on masks and now the virus is just fucking out there wrecking shit.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    SleepFencingsaxShadowhope
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • Blackhawk1313Blackhawk1313 Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    As posted earlier Northern Virginia, and Virginia in general, is doing fine. We flattened infections. We have opened to stage 2. But at the same time some simple steps probably helped a bunch. One of those is that the governor made masks mandatory inside public spaces. Stores and all other gatherings. And it is backed around here. I don't see anyone not wearing a masks. Everyone has big signs of masks required. It helps. Luckily we were able to stay closed longer up north. And we are in sync with our neighbors in DC and Maryland. Who are both doing really well. Even with the protest because you know the protestors were doing everything they could to protect each other. It was the cops not wearing masks.

    Throw in free testing and such in a lot of places that helps a bunch.
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    Trace wrote: »
    https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/30/us/aap-kids-physically-in-school-wellness-trnd/index.html
    As states grapple with how to safely start the upcoming school year, the American Academy of Pediatrics is pushing for students to be physically present in classrooms rather than continue in remote learning for the sake of their well-being.
    The group, which represents and guides pediatricians across the country, updated its back-to-school recommendations to say evidence shows the academic, mental and physical benefits of in-person learning outweigh the risks from the coronavirus.
    "The AAP strongly advocates that all policy considerations for the coming school year should start with a goal of having students physically present in school," the group said on its website.

    This is remarkably short sighted.

    Eh, home/online schooling is pretty unequivocally shit and I can see it being harmful in the long term.

    It seems to be one of the lower risk things on the whole with adequate precautions, so maybe society could give up their beach trips/bar crawl binge drinking/eyes wide shut costume orgies for a little bit as an offset so that kids don’t have to go without a whole year of proper schooling?

    I admire your optimism at what society would be willing to sacrifice to allow children to go back to school safely.

    Also again, yeah the children might be fine, might not kill them. I mean might still seems like a chance not worth taking as a dead kid can’t learn anything but then of course on the other side is agreeing to this is throwing teachers to the wolves. Forcing them back at their shit pay is a double whammy of fuck you, that at best will cause even more to abandon the profession.

    KlytusGnome-Interruptus
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    My son's school is still talking about physically opening in the fall, it's bonkers and I hate it.

    Also I can't teach him for that long, period. No one in this apartment will survive that.

    Both things are true and I'm really not sure what to do about it at this point.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    Betsey Devos is an evil person who wants to privatize and monetize all forms of education

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    My son's school is still talking about physically opening in the fall, it's bonkers and I hate it.

    Also I can't teach him for that long, period. No one in this apartment will survive that.

    Both things are true and I'm really not sure what to do about it at this point.

    What you can really. I have my son back at his daycare because it was driving me insane to have him at home while I'm having to work from home. They have basic stuff set up like teachers in masks and temp checks at the door, but I still see plenty of parents sans masks.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    Shadowfire
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    Betsey Devos is an evil person who wants to privatize and monetize all forms of education

    Yes, but not really relevant to what I'm talking about.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    My son's school is still talking about physically opening in the fall, it's bonkers and I hate it.

    Also I can't teach him for that long, period. No one in this apartment will survive that.

    Both things are true and I'm really not sure what to do about it at this point.

    What you can really. I have my son back at his daycare because it was driving me insane to have him at home while I'm having to work from home. They have basic stuff set up like teachers in masks and temp checks at the door, but I still see plenty of parents sans masks.

    It seems like you'd need to have the kids masked up to prevent rapid, uncontrolled spread. And I'm guessing that's just never going to happen.

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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    Betsey Devos is an evil person who wants to privatize and monetize all forms of education

    Yes, but not really relevant to what I'm talking about.

    I think it is, actually

    She wants public education systems to fail

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  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    Apologies if this quickly moving thread has already gone over this, but is the relatively low death rate we're seeing a result of a lag between cases and deaths, the observed youth of the infected, or both? And is a major increase in death toll likely in the coming weeks?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    Betsey Devos is an evil person who wants to privatize and monetize all forms of education

    Yes, but not really relevant to what I'm talking about.

    I think it is, actually

    She wants public education systems to fail

    Yeah, but doesn't actually have much control over state budgets or how states choose to reopen schools. Education in the US is mostly decentralized with the exception of special education, which is federally mandated with funds provided to address that mandate.

    The problem is balanced budget amendments at the state level forcing states to drastically cut services when revenues decrease. The only thing that can counter that is massive federal aid, which is obviously not forthcoming.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    I assume the plan is "get fucked, kids (and parents of kids)".

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    Emerlmaster999Man in the MistsTicaldfjam
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    Betsey Devos is an evil person who wants to privatize and monetize all forms of education

    Yes, but not really relevant to what I'm talking about.

    I think it is, actually

    She wants public education systems to fail

    Yeah, but doesn't actually have much control over state budgets or how states choose to reopen schools. Education in the US is mostly decentralized with the exception of special education, which is federally mandated with funds provided to address that mandate.

    The problem is balanced budget amendments at the state level forcing states to drastically cut services when revenues decrease. The only thing that can counter that is massive federal aid, which is obviously not forthcoming.

    Betsey Devos probably has some say in not sending federal aid, being the secretary of education, or at least is going to benefit from the current status quo of state public education systems failing by her silence

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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    ceres wrote: »
    My son's school is still talking about physically opening in the fall, it's bonkers and I hate it.

    Also I can't teach him for that long, period. No one in this apartment will survive that.

    Both things are true and I'm really not sure what to do about it at this point.

    What you can really. I have my son back at his daycare because it was driving me insane to have him at home while I'm having to work from home. They have basic stuff set up like teachers in masks and temp checks at the door, but I still see plenty of parents sans masks.

    The Norwegian government evaluated our shutdown (it's over for now, since there's very little covid at the moment). Evaluation was done both on health and socio-economic terms (including the economic hit of a bunch of people dying).

    The conclusion was that closing schools / day care was not worth it. I don't think they will close if/when we have to have a new shutdown.

    The bad news is it requires schools to take precautions.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Apologies if this quickly moving thread has already gone over this, but is the relatively low death rate we're seeing a result of a lag between cases and deaths, the observed youth of the infected, or both? And is a major increase in death toll likely in the coming weeks?

    My theory-
    There’s a lag but I see two big factors now:
    1. I think the ratio of the people it’s infecting now is skewing less vulnerable: young drunk dipshits vs ravaging retirement homes
    2. We’ve learned more about what treatments to use when, plus contact tracing to alert people about their risk before they end up in the ER

    DoodmannkijunshiSleepGnome-Interruptusnever die
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    Betsey Devos is an evil person who wants to privatize and monetize all forms of education

    Yes, but not really relevant to what I'm talking about.

    I think it is, actually

    She wants public education systems to fail

    Yeah, but doesn't actually have much control over state budgets or how states choose to reopen schools. Education in the US is mostly decentralized with the exception of special education, which is federally mandated with funds provided to address that mandate.

    The problem is balanced budget amendments at the state level forcing states to drastically cut services when revenues decrease. The only thing that can counter that is massive federal aid, which is obviously not forthcoming.

    Also already-depleted states might need to give tax credits for religious schools now, too!

    DouglasDangerMan in the Mistsshryke
  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    ceres wrote: »
    My son's school is still talking about physically opening in the fall, it's bonkers and I hate it.

    Also I can't teach him for that long, period. No one in this apartment will survive that.

    Both things are true and I'm really not sure what to do about it at this point.

    I've got a family member who has is putting her son back in daycare in the fall. It's a risk she's willing to take for her mental health and his.

    At this point it's all about risk management and deciding what results in the least harm for your family.

    kijunshi
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Apologies if this quickly moving thread has already gone over this, but is the relatively low death rate we're seeing a result of a lag between cases and deaths, the observed youth of the infected, or both? And is a major increase in death toll likely in the coming weeks?

    Probably both, a major increase in death tolls over the next 3-4 weeks is very likely but the extent of it is hard to tell.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    It’s fine, kids can go back to school just need:
    •Wearing masks
    •Not breathing heavy
    •Not sharing fluids with others
    •Washing their hands frequently

    S’al good

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    Kaputa wrote: »
    Apologies if this quickly moving thread has already gone over this, but is the relatively low death rate we're seeing a result of a lag between cases and deaths, the observed youth of the infected, or both? And is a major increase in death toll likely in the coming weeks?

    There's a lag time. If you get 1000 new infections, something like 5 people are going to die--but they might die in 2-6 weeks from now depending on how long they've had it when they gotten tested.

    The lag can result in a falling death rate while the infected numbers explode. Just look at the infected numbers and WAG it as "0.5% of these people will be dead in two months" and you'll be accurate enough.

    Commander Zoom
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited June 30
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    I assume the plan is "get fucked, kids (and parents of kids)".

    My guess is some form of hybrid online/in-person instruction where kids spend half their time at home and half in classrooms. There's just no way to enforce social distancing without doing that. I have 34 kids/class in a room that barely fits them with desks touching each other front to back and maybe three feet between rows. For us to get six feet between students, I need to get my class size down to no more than 20 for sure. So your options at that point are:

    1) Only half the kids there at any given time
    OR
    2) Double the size of your teaching staff
    AND
    3) Double the physical space you are working in

    Even if there were enough accredited people for choice 2 to work, choice 3 is obviously impossible. So they're going to have to go with choice 1.

    But how you feed kids who rely on school lunch programs for two of their three meals a day is a serious problem. Child care for when kids are in the at home half of their schedule is another. Especially with the enriched unemployment benefits set to expire at the end of July.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    One other thing I we should be aware of, even if the death rate is low:

    Surviving COVID is not a promise that you will get back to normal. Yes, some people shrug it off, but if you wind up in the hospital and survive, your life is very likely to be changed forever. Particularly if you wound up on a ventilator.

    So death rate is not everything when examining the severity of this thing.

    VuIBhrs.png
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  • PiotyrPiotyr Registered User regular
    These our the options our kids' school is exploring for this fall:

    1) Continue full online education, all kids grades 6 and above are provided laptops for online learning.
    2) Open school at 40% capacity, so each student is present on campus 2 days a week with proper social distancing and masks required, while giving students the opportunity to be present with each other student at least once every other week.
    3) Open school, alternating grades that are present each day, so that half the school is doing home learning and half the school is doing in person learning in a given day. Masks and social distancing required, classes spread out into multiple rooms not being used that day.
    4) Open school for all students in person, attempt to either lease more space or take advantage of outdoor areas to distance students properly. Masks still required.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    It's insane there is not a general plan for education. Or a way to fund all the changes we're going to have to make. Instead the state budget crises are cutting our funding. Michigan schools lost a quarter billion in the deal the governor and legislature agreed to yesterday. Whitmer's supposed to announce a school plan at some point today.

    Betsey Devos is an evil person who wants to privatize and monetize all forms of education

    Yes, but not really relevant to what I'm talking about.

    I think it is, actually

    She wants public education systems to fail

    Yeah, but doesn't actually have much control over state budgets or how states choose to reopen schools. Education in the US is mostly decentralized with the exception of special education, which is federally mandated with funds provided to address that mandate.

    The problem is balanced budget amendments at the state level forcing states to drastically cut services when revenues decrease. The only thing that can counter that is massive federal aid, which is obviously not forthcoming.

    Betsey Devos probably has some say in not sending federal aid, being the secretary of education, or at least is going to benefit from the current status quo of state public education systems failing by her silence

    No, that's pretty much all on Congress.

    shryke
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    As Coronavirus Surges, How Much Testing Does Your State Need To Subdue The Virus?

    NPR in cooperation with Harvard Health did a study on how much testing the US would need to limit COVID nation wide verse suppressing it nation wide. Along with what states are getting there and where they are not.
    The coronavirus keeps spreading around the United States. New hot spots are emerging and heating up by the day. The death toll keeps mounting. So how can the U.S. beat back the relentless onslaught of this deadly virus?

    Public health experts agree on one powerful weapon that's gotten a lot of attention but apparently still needs a lot more: testing.

    A new analysis that researchers at Harvard conducted for NPR finds that more states have begun to do enough testing to keep their outbreaks from getting worse, but most are still falling short.

    And perhaps more importantly, a consortium of public health researchers, including Harvard, finds that only a handful are doing enough testing to effectively suppress the virus, that is, to bring new cases down to a low enough level to allow everyday life to return to some semblance of normalcy.

    ...

    Now, daily testing has doubled to about 500,000 nationally, and 18 states plus Washington, D.C., are currently testing enough to keep their outbreaks from getting out of control. But the national totals are far below what the Harvard group says is needed to contain the current outbreaks — 1 million tests daily — and yet farther from a level that could truly beat back the pandemic in this country.

    "I see that as progress that we now have more states that are able to manage and mitigate the virus," Jha says. But he adds, "what we all really want is to suppress the virus — to get the virus level so low that we don't have large numbers of people getting sick and dying and that we can open up our economy."

    v44i9uqf4492.png
    How to achieve suppression

    So how much testing would be needed to go beyond mitigation and actually achieve suppression?

    For that, the Harvard Global Health group developed a new metric in collaboration with other academic groups across the country: They estimate that communities need to test widely enough so that the number of people testing positive for the virus is 3% or lower. That's the positivity rate that other countries, such as Italy and South Korea, achieved to control their epidemics.

    According to the new analysis, the U.S. overall would need 4.3 million tests per day, with the amount of testing in each state varying depending on the current size of their outbreaks, to achieve that goal. (This analysis assumes the true size of each state's outbreak to be three to five times larger than what's captured in confirmed case numbers.)

    ...

    Challenges ahead


    According to the new analysis, only four states are doing enough testing for suppression: Alaska, Hawaii, Montana and Vermont — all relatively small populations with small outbreaks. West Virginia is close to its target.

    Among states with large outbreaks, New Jersey is close to being in a position to suppress the virus, showing that even a larger outbreak can be brought under control.

    "I do think it's possible. It's not going to be easy. But it requires leadership and it requires a commitment from our country that says, 'We actually want to open up our country safely and we want to get our lives back,'" Jha says.

    Others agree that the need to ramp up testing is urgently needed, but argue that it remains a daunting goal.

    "It's disappointing and it's frustrating that we don't have the capacity to get this under control," says Dr. Marcus Plescia, chief medical director for the Association of State and Territorial Health Officials. "This is particularly concerning now that we're seeing surges in cases. We clearly need to be able test more people."

    There is a lot in this article. Including the ability to check your own state. Also again it is so frustrating, it seems American exceptionalism means we are exceptional at failing.

    Just cycling through the states is interesting. The states that have suppression level testing? Alaska, Hawaii, Montana(?) and Vermont. Those last two kind of surprise me but good for them.

    Kind of saddening to find that NY is only about halfway to suppression levels of testing but looking at other states.....oh wow it could be so much worse.

    Ardol
  • lunchbox12682lunchbox12682 MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    edited June 30
    Piotyr wrote: »
    These our the options our kids' school is exploring for this fall:

    1) Continue full online education, all kids grades 6 and above are provided laptops for online learning.
    2) Open school at 40% capacity, so each student is present on campus 2 days a week with proper social distancing and masks required, while giving students the opportunity to be present with each other student at least once every other week.
    3) Open school, alternating grades that are present each day, so that half the school is doing home learning and half the school is doing in person learning in a given day. Masks and social distancing required, classes spread out into multiple rooms not being used that day.
    4) Open school for all students in person, attempt to either lease more space or take advantage of outdoor areas to distance students properly. Masks still required.

    I had been at least open to the idea of the various hybrid options, but it just occurred to me (I can be dense) how awful this can be with families with kids in different grades that may not be on the same schedule. For the families, for the schools.

    lunchbox12682 on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular


    Tweeter is the Governor of New York requesting people traveling from some states self quarantine before entry to New York.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »


    Tweeter is the Governor of New York requesting people traveling from some states self quarantine before entry to New York.

    Shoe's on the other foot now, and I bet some of those states will be complaining it's too tight.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »


    Tweeter is the Governor of New York requesting people traveling from some states self quarantine before entry to New York.

    "Request" isn't exactly right. I looked this up a few days ago and it is up to a $10,000 fine if you didn't. Doesn't apply to folks traveling through. Oh and you quarantine after you arrive, not before you leave wherever you come from.

  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular


    Posting for the tiktok. A little levity.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    We've been down here in Tennessee working on the house we are renovating, figuring we would essentially be quarantining these two weeks. There are only 20 cases reported for the county with 10-12 recovered.

    Well, the hardware store where we were renting equipment was closed yesterday and today because too many of their employees are testing positive for COVID.

    So either this hardware store's employees account for 80% of the active cases in the county, or some numbers are getting seriously manipulated somewhere.

    I kind of wish we hadn't come down at all, but we already skipped our March trip and some of this work can't wait.

  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »


    Tweeter is the Governor of New York requesting people traveling from some states self quarantine before entry to New York.

    "Request" isn't exactly right. I looked this up a few days ago and it is up to a $10,000 fine if you didn't. Doesn't apply to folks traveling through. Oh and you quarantine after you arrive, not before you leave wherever you come from.
    Is that fine actually enforceable? Something local governments have been talking about since quarantine first started months ago is how none of these safety measures are actually enforceable, and it'd look really weird / fashy to get cops involved for the purposes of enforcement.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Piotyr wrote: »
    These our the options our kids' school is exploring for this fall:

    1) Continue full online education, all kids grades 6 and above are provided laptops for online learning.
    2) Open school at 40% capacity, so each student is present on campus 2 days a week with proper social distancing and masks required, while giving students the opportunity to be present with each other student at least once every other week.
    3) Open school, alternating grades that are present each day, so that half the school is doing home learning and half the school is doing in person learning in a given day. Masks and social distancing required, classes spread out into multiple rooms not being used that day.
    4) Open school for all students in person, attempt to either lease more space or take advantage of outdoor areas to distance students properly. Masks still required.

    I had been at least open to the idea of the various hybrid options, but it just occurred to me (I can be dense) how awful this can be with families with kids in different grades that may not be on the same schedule. For the families, for the schools.

    We're likely to do it by last name, which doesn't entirely fix the problem (I had siblings in the same class with a B last name and a W last name, for example), but is better.

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This discussion has been closed.