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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] Let’s Do The Lockdown Again

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Yeah, I don't think we've gotten better at the testing thing:
    Coronavirus testing system 'falling over'
    People across England have told BBC News they are struggling to access coronavirus tests.

    Health Secretary Matt Hancock said last week that no-one should have to travel more than 75 miles for a test, after the BBC revealed some were being sent hundreds of miles away.

    But dozens have now reported being unable to book a swab at all.

    The Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) said testing capacity was targeted at the hardest-hit areas.

    A significant rise in demand for testing led the government to reduce the number of appointments available in areas of lower prevalence, to prioritise areas with outbreaks.

    This in turn led to people applying for tests being directed to centres sometimes hundreds of miles away.

    But last Thursday Mr Hancock pledged to put in "immediate" solutions to make sure people did not have to travel more than 75 miles, effective from last Friday.

    Since then, postcodes entered into the government's booking system return a message suggesting there are no testing centres or home kits available - even if you are an essential worker with symptoms.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    Yes, we're awful at testing but we're doing more than zero. Which was the government's initial stance: there was no need to test because we'd just get herd immunity

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Took my son for a test yesterday, we had to refresh the site several times and it's only set up for adults. So despite putting his age in it still asks you what job he does etc.

    The testing site was in a Morrisons car park and was just a bunch of people standing around.

    We followed the guidebook within the test kit but had some questions. The staff didn't actually know what the guidebook said and questioned what we did despite following the guidance.

    Wife needs a test now and is still refreshing the page.

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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    Took my son for a test yesterday, we had to refresh the site several times and it's only set up for adults. So despite putting his age in it still asks you what job he does etc.

    The testing site was in a Morrisons car park and was just a bunch of people standing around.

    We followed the guidebook within the test kit but had some questions. The staff didn't actually know what the guidebook said and questioned what we did despite following the guidance.

    Wife needs a test now and is still refreshing the page.

    Do they have a job category of "Being A Massive Constant Pain In The Ass, But I Love Him Anyway"?

    Cause that's what appears to be a child's job nowdays, at least from people I know with kids.

    At least when I was growing up, we got shipped off to camps, or extended sleepovers, or just full days out.

    Can't imagine how much more of an intolerant shit I would have been if I was constantly at home during childhood.

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    surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited September 2020
    so presumably the reason boris said nothing last night is that the call he had to convince mps was a bizarre failure

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/boris-zoom-call-failure

    one highlight from the reliably peculiar michael fabricant:
    But when the Zoom call attended by 256 MPs suddenly broke off after twenty minutes, the online forum descended into chaos as MP Michael Fabricant started singing Rule Britannia, clutching a piece of paper with the words already printed out.

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
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    DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    so presumably the reason boris said nothing last night is that the call he had to convince mps was a bizarre failure

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/boris-zoom-call-failure

    one highlight from the reliably peculiar michael fabricant:
    But when the Zoom call attended by 256 MPs suddenly broke off after twenty minutes, the online forum descended into chaos as MP Michael Fabricant started singing Rule Britannia, clutching a piece of paper with the words already printed out.

    Wait, they can't prep for the major international relations move of the decade for the country they lead but they're so patriotic they need to make sure they have the anthem printed out so they can spontaneously sing it?

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Maybe it's the version that goes "Britannia waives the rules".

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    so presumably the reason boris said nothing last night is that the call he had to convince mps was a bizarre failure

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/boris-zoom-call-failure

    one highlight from the reliably peculiar michael fabricant:
    But when the Zoom call attended by 256 MPs suddenly broke off after twenty minutes, the online forum descended into chaos as MP Michael Fabricant started singing Rule Britannia, clutching a piece of paper with the words already printed out.

    Wait, they can't prep for the major international relations move of the decade for the country they lead but they're so patriotic they need to make sure they have the anthem printed out so they can spontaneously sing it?

    Once again, There's a Pratchett Quote For That:
    ...all real patriots can never remember more than one verse of their anthem, and get through the subsequent verses by going ‘ner hner ner’ until they reach an outcrop of words they recognise, which they sing very boldly to give the impression that they really had been singing all the other words as well but had been drowned out by the people around them.

    Slightly less relevant, but also:
    Raising the flag and singing the anthem are, while somewhat suspicious, not in themselves acts of treason.
    Echo wrote: »
    Maybe it's the version that goes "Britannia waives the rules".
    New thread title?

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    JazzJazz Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Echo wrote: »
    Maybe it's the version that goes "Britannia waives the rules".
    New thread title?

    It rings a bell, have we had it before?

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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Yes, we're awful at testing but we're doing more than zero. Which was the government's initial stance: there was no need to test because we'd just get herd immunity

    Indeed, the first wave peaked with probably 1-2 hundred thousand infections a day. Currently, the UK probably has 10000 infections a day. We also have no idea what the onset shape of the first wave was, because the UK was pretty much testing exclusively in hospitals, and even that wasn't universal.

    It is safe to say that you are doing far more to suppress transmission now than the last time you had 10000 cases and rising, but, its very likely also true to say that anything less than a strictly implemented rule of 6 won't be enough.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Still waiting for my son's test results.

    Wife has developed a bad cough and a temperature.

    Can't even select drive through tests on the government website. She's applied for a home test but they'll let us know if she's been successful?!?

    So this "world beating" system doesn't inspire much confidence.

    Meanwhile im off work until we know otherwise.

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    Mojo_JojoMojo_Jojo We are only now beginning to understand the full power and ramifications of sexual intercourse Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Yes, we're awful at testing but we're doing more than zero. Which was the government's initial stance: there was no need to test because we'd just get herd immunity

    Indeed, the first wave peaked with probably 1-2 hundred thousand infections a day. Currently, the UK probably has 10000 infections a day. We also have no idea what the onset shape of the first wave was, because the UK was pretty much testing exclusively in hospitals, and even that wasn't universal.

    It is safe to say that you are doing far more to suppress transmission now than the last time you had 10000 cases and rising, but, its very likely also true to say that anything less than a strictly implemented rule of 6 won't be enough.

    The rule of six wouldn't do anything no matter how strictly it's adhered to.

    Instantaneous group size limits achieve nothing.

    Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
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    SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    Gabriel is a Whitehall correspondent with The Times:



    Not holding out much hope for my family's test results.

    But this pretty much sums up or government's approach to Covid, as an excuse to make their mates loads of money:

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    BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    I really hope they get strung up for the contracts thing. It's so bloody obvious but I barely see it mentioned in the papers, and most people I talk to aren't even aware it's going on.

    Bethryn on
    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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    MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Bethryn wrote: »
    I really hope they get strung up for the contracts thing. It's so bloody obvious but I barely see it mentioned in the papers, and most people I talk to aren't even aware it's going on.

    No bid contracts that don't at least get a sign off from Parliament should be illegal.

    If there's only one company that can do what the government needs it to do, then it should be able to stand up to scrutiny, and members should at least be able to be held accountable for their votes.

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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Justice Secretary Robert Buckland said he would resign if the UK ended up breaking international law "in a way I find unacceptable".
    It's totally cool to break laws in ways you find acceptable, everyone!
    That's a proper legal opinion, that is.

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178
    Japan trade deal commits UK to stricter state aid curbs than in EU talks
    Contrasting positions could undermine negotiating stance with Brussels

    lmao. if you're "undermining" deep enough, you start going up again

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Yes, we're awful at testing but we're doing more than zero. Which was the government's initial stance: there was no need to test because we'd just get herd immunity

    Indeed, the first wave peaked with probably 1-2 hundred thousand infections a day. Currently, the UK probably has 10000 infections a day. We also have no idea what the onset shape of the first wave was, because the UK was pretty much testing exclusively in hospitals, and even that wasn't universal.

    It is safe to say that you are doing far more to suppress transmission now than the last time you had 10000 cases and rising, but, its very likely also true to say that anything less than a strictly implemented rule of 6 won't be enough.

    The rule of six wouldn't do anything no matter how strictly it's adhered to.

    Instantaneous group size limits achieve nothing.

    Keeping group sizes small is a key part of infection control, and can absolutely be enough to limit the number of tests needed for sufficient control and monitoring to keep the virus from spreading. It is not necessary to live as a hermit to be doing your part.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178
    Japan trade deal commits UK to stricter state aid curbs than in EU talks
    Contrasting positions could undermine negotiating stance with Brussels

    lmao. if you're "undermining" deep enough, you start going up again

    Ahh, I see you're familiar with our 'Australia style' hole digging.

    Tastyfish on
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    Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Yes, we're awful at testing but we're doing more than zero. Which was the government's initial stance: there was no need to test because we'd just get herd immunity

    Indeed, the first wave peaked with probably 1-2 hundred thousand infections a day. Currently, the UK probably has 10000 infections a day. We also have no idea what the onset shape of the first wave was, because the UK was pretty much testing exclusively in hospitals, and even that wasn't universal.

    It is safe to say that you are doing far more to suppress transmission now than the last time you had 10000 cases and rising, but, its very likely also true to say that anything less than a strictly implemented rule of 6 won't be enough.

    The rule of six wouldn't do anything no matter how strictly it's adhered to.

    Instantaneous group size limits achieve nothing.

    Keeping group sizes small is a key part of infection control, and can absolutely be enough to limit the number of tests needed for sufficient control and monitoring to keep the virus from spreading. It is not necessary to live as a hermit to be doing your part.

    Yes, but if you're in a group of 6 today and in a different group of six 15 minutes from now, etc there isn't that much benefit from reducing group sizes. You're getting the same effect just slower.

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    tbloxhamtbloxham Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    tbloxham wrote: »
    Mojo_Jojo wrote: »
    Yes, we're awful at testing but we're doing more than zero. Which was the government's initial stance: there was no need to test because we'd just get herd immunity

    Indeed, the first wave peaked with probably 1-2 hundred thousand infections a day. Currently, the UK probably has 10000 infections a day. We also have no idea what the onset shape of the first wave was, because the UK was pretty much testing exclusively in hospitals, and even that wasn't universal.

    It is safe to say that you are doing far more to suppress transmission now than the last time you had 10000 cases and rising, but, its very likely also true to say that anything less than a strictly implemented rule of 6 won't be enough.

    The rule of six wouldn't do anything no matter how strictly it's adhered to.

    Instantaneous group size limits achieve nothing.

    Keeping group sizes small is a key part of infection control, and can absolutely be enough to limit the number of tests needed for sufficient control and monitoring to keep the virus from spreading. It is not necessary to live as a hermit to be doing your part.

    Yes, but if you're in a group of 6 today and in a different group of six 15 minutes from now, etc there isn't that much benefit from reducing group sizes. You're getting the same effect just slower.

    Same effect just slower can absolutely be enough! If 1 person out of 30 is infected, and you (uninfected person) mingle with 5 subsequent groups of 6 people then you may be infected in the exposure to the sick person but will not infect others. Contact tracing the situation will require far less tests, and be more effective.

    Sequential activities are stupid yes, but they are vastly better than massive activities.

    In reality a "rule of 6" properly implemented would be, "socialize with up to 6 people indoors, only once per day. Household members included for total numbers, but don't count as your one socialization a day"

    But, even just a general rule of 6 might be enough. The r0 in the UK is something like 1.2 or something, a small improvement might be enough to get things back in line.

    "That is cool" - Abraham Lincoln
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    klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Fifth ex-PM speaks out against post-Brexit bill
    David Cameron has become the fifth former prime minister to criticise a new bill attempting to override the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

    The Internal Market Bill will come before MPs later, with the government calling it an "insurance policy".

    Mr Cameron said he had "misgivings" over it and breaking an international treaty should be the "final resort".

    Former Tory PMs Theresa May and Sir John Major, and Labour's Tony Blair and Gordon Brown have condemned the plan.
    The good news for Boris is that it's unlikely any more former PMs will speak out, unless anyone has a Ouija board handy.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    See, it's still posible to get a bipartisan effort going. Boris, you're a fucking idiot, the ultimate common denominator.

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    Emblematic of his pathetic lack of character that the most he can scrape up is "misgivings". Fuck off back to your tin shed, you absolute failure.

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    Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    Yeah but all those ex-PMs are bitter remainers so their view doesn't matter.

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    Yeah but all those ex-PMs are bitter remainers so their view doesn't matter.

    I think that's why Geoffrey Cox saying he won't support the bill is significant

    It would be ludicrous to argue that he, of all people, was an embittered remainer (though that doesn't mean they won't try)

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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator mod
    I doubt there are thirty Tories left who are willing to risk losing the whip, which is both a damning indictment of the Tories and a measure of the grovelling loyalty test Johnson now turns each big vote into.

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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    I mean, breaking International law and getting away with would actually be "a sign of strength", unfortunately I don't see it happening. In a round of the old 27 v 1, the odds are a bit one sided.. Especially if the one is punching himself in the face all the time

    kFJhXwE.jpgkFJhXwE.jpg
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    Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Bogart wrote: »
    I doubt there are thirty Tories left who are willing to risk losing the whip, which is both a damning indictment of the Tories and a measure of the grovelling loyalty test Johnson now turns each big vote into.

    I doubt Boris will withdraw the whip this time. Especially not thirty plus. He cannot afford an unstable government right now and I don't think he can call another electon without labour support.

    Mc zany on
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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    The proposed amendment is a neat bit of political maneuvering

    It doesn't remove the problematic provisions from the bill, but it does add an additional parliamentary vote to be held in the event that the government proposes to use them

    So:
    - It pre-empts the argument that they need to be there just in case
    - There is no real risk that the government couldn't secure a majority to vote for their implementation in extremis (provided the circumstances are genuinely extreme)
    - "Parliamentary sovereignty"
    - Ultimately it's an opportunity to kick the can down the road in a way that may not be fatal to the current negotiations

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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    I mean, breaking International law and getting away with would actually be "a sign of strength", unfortunately I don't see it happening. In a round of the old 27 v 1, the odds are a bit one sided.. Especially if the one is punching himself in the face all the time

    'Getting away with it' is the problem. The EU can impose all sorts of penalties on the UK for doing this, but there's nothing the EU can do to actually stop the UK. So I'm not sure that the usual sorts won't just glom onto the UK breaking the withdrawal agreement as being awesome and totally ignore (or just get angry at the EU) any of the penalties that result.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    BethrynBethryn Unhappiness is Mandatory Registered User regular
    ...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Someone should tell Johnson about pacta sunt servanda, I heard he at least claims to know Latin

    Platy on
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    BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    The good news for Boris is that it's unlikely any more former PMs will speak out, unless anyone has a Ouija board handy.

    Given the way that 2020 has been going so far, do we really want to chance that?

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    CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    The proposed amendment is a neat bit of political maneuvering

    It doesn't remove the problematic provisions from the bill, but it does add an additional parliamentary vote to be held in the event that the government proposes to use them

    So:
    - It pre-empts the argument that they need to be there just in case
    - There is no real risk that the government couldn't secure a majority to vote for their implementation in extremis (provided the circumstances are genuinely extreme)
    - "Parliamentary sovereignty"
    - Ultimately it's an opportunity to kick the can down the road in a way that may not be fatal to the current negotiations

    I still doubt the EU will be fine with it even in this form.

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    Mc zanyMc zany Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    The proposed amendment is a neat bit of political maneuvering

    It doesn't remove the problematic provisions from the bill, but it does add an additional parliamentary vote to be held in the event that the government proposes to use them

    So:
    - It pre-empts the argument that they need to be there just in case
    - There is no real risk that the government couldn't secure a majority to vote for their implementation in extremis (provided the circumstances are genuinely extreme)
    - "Parliamentary sovereignty"
    - Ultimately it's an opportunity to kick the can down the road in a way that may not be fatal to the current negotiations

    I still doubt the EU will be fine with it even in this form.

    Indeed, the promise of a vote is meaningless when the party that proposed it also has a massive majority to push anything through.

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    japanjapan Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    The proposed amendment is a neat bit of political maneuvering

    It doesn't remove the problematic provisions from the bill, but it does add an additional parliamentary vote to be held in the event that the government proposes to use them

    So:
    - It pre-empts the argument that they need to be there just in case
    - There is no real risk that the government couldn't secure a majority to vote for their implementation in extremis (provided the circumstances are genuinely extreme)
    - "Parliamentary sovereignty"
    - Ultimately it's an opportunity to kick the can down the road in a way that may not be fatal to the current negotiations

    I still doubt the EU will be fine with it even in this form.

    Probably true

    To a certain degree it would be a fig leaf, since parliament can, in principle, vote to breach a treaty at any time. So, framing it this way would render the relevant clauses redundant since they would become a statement of the obvious.

    That does cause issues with respect to the requirement for good faith, though

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    SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited September 2020


    Tweeter is some random person with the relevant clip.

    Good old Ed wiping the floor with Johnson.

    Assuming this bill passes this is all almost worth it to see how utterly miserable Johnson is.

    SharpyVII on
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    AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    SharpyVII wrote: »


    Tweeter is some random person with the relevant clip.

    Good old Ed wiping the floor with Johnson.

    Assuming this bill passes this is all almost worth it to see how utterly miserable Johnson is.

    Wow Boris looks pathetic in this. He really doesn't want to be PM anymore does he? I can't imagine any other pm having this reaction to a challenge like that.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    He and Trump are really cut from the same cloth, aren't they?

This discussion has been closed.