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[US Economy]-Covid-19 Depression? Edition, though not about Covid itself

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  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    The reason maker stuff isn't more widespread is the same reason a lot of things that are kind of pricey for what is effectively a hobby are not widespread: wage stagnation. If more people had more fun money lying around that wasn't a shield against emergencies or illness, there'd be a lot more demand for a lot of things. Which would spin up to better economic growth. Not just 3D printers, either. Kitchen gadgets, high end sound systems, woodworking, a lot of random tech stuff, drones, &c. would be a lot more prevalent and get the benefits of scale. It's not like people are less inclined to putzing with stuff than our grandparents. We just can't afford to blow $hundreds on what is effectively just a way to enjoy the spare time that we also don't have.

    It's the same thing you can when they talk about how this or that sport or hobby (golf being a popular one for these kind of stories) is dying. There's a lot of thinkpieces about how it's cultural or people are too busy now or something but a lot of the time economists are just like "the younger generation just doesn't have enough money for it".

    Modifying your cars, ala The Fast & Furious, is very close to being dead, and is only a rich person's sport.
    Sure, you can spend $30 or whatever to put an obnoxious muffler on your Honda Grocery Getter, but what else could you buy with that $30?
    Most of my friends that I met through it have kind of outgrown it. Compared to many older adults that were into it and were able to keep doing it for years into their late adult life.

  • ChaosHatChaosHat Hop, hop, hop, HA! Trick of the lightRegistered User regular
    L Ron Howard wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    The reason maker stuff isn't more widespread is the same reason a lot of things that are kind of pricey for what is effectively a hobby are not widespread: wage stagnation. If more people had more fun money lying around that wasn't a shield against emergencies or illness, there'd be a lot more demand for a lot of things. Which would spin up to better economic growth. Not just 3D printers, either. Kitchen gadgets, high end sound systems, woodworking, a lot of random tech stuff, drones, &c. would be a lot more prevalent and get the benefits of scale. It's not like people are less inclined to putzing with stuff than our grandparents. We just can't afford to blow $hundreds on what is effectively just a way to enjoy the spare time that we also don't have.

    It's the same thing you can when they talk about how this or that sport or hobby (golf being a popular one for these kind of stories) is dying. There's a lot of thinkpieces about how it's cultural or people are too busy now or something but a lot of the time economists are just like "the younger generation just doesn't have enough money for it".

    Modifying your cars, ala The Fast & Furious, is very close to being dead, and is only a rich person's sport.
    Sure, you can spend $30 or whatever to put an obnoxious muffler on your Honda Grocery Getter, but what else could you buy with that $30?
    Most of my friends that I met through it have kind of outgrown it. Compared to many older adults that were into it and were able to keep doing it for years into their late adult life.

    This is also partially because cars have become way more complicated in the same span of time and for various reasons have become more difficult for laypeople to work on them. It was just easier to work on those older cars.

  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard The duck MinnesotaRegistered User regular
    ChaosHat wrote: »
    L Ron Howard wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    The reason maker stuff isn't more widespread is the same reason a lot of things that are kind of pricey for what is effectively a hobby are not widespread: wage stagnation. If more people had more fun money lying around that wasn't a shield against emergencies or illness, there'd be a lot more demand for a lot of things. Which would spin up to better economic growth. Not just 3D printers, either. Kitchen gadgets, high end sound systems, woodworking, a lot of random tech stuff, drones, &c. would be a lot more prevalent and get the benefits of scale. It's not like people are less inclined to putzing with stuff than our grandparents. We just can't afford to blow $hundreds on what is effectively just a way to enjoy the spare time that we also don't have.

    It's the same thing you can when they talk about how this or that sport or hobby (golf being a popular one for these kind of stories) is dying. There's a lot of thinkpieces about how it's cultural or people are too busy now or something but a lot of the time economists are just like "the younger generation just doesn't have enough money for it".

    Modifying your cars, ala The Fast & Furious, is very close to being dead, and is only a rich person's sport.
    Sure, you can spend $30 or whatever to put an obnoxious muffler on your Honda Grocery Getter, but what else could you buy with that $30?
    Most of my friends that I met through it have kind of outgrown it. Compared to many older adults that were into it and were able to keep doing it for years into their late adult life.

    This is also partially because cars have become way more complicated in the same span of time and for various reasons have become more difficult for laypeople to work on them. It was just easier to work on those older cars.

    That is also true, and yes, I was greatly simplifying.
    But with the resources, I'm not seeing many people with old Mustangs and Camaros like 15 years ago even. Like even old Fox body Mustangs. $100 towards more Mustang parts isn't just something I know most people can throw away any more.

  • SimpsoniaSimpsonia Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    The reason maker stuff isn't more widespread is the same reason a lot of things that are kind of pricey for what is effectively a hobby are not widespread: wage stagnation. If more people had more fun money lying around that wasn't a shield against emergencies or illness, there'd be a lot more demand for a lot of things. Which would spin up to better economic growth. Not just 3D printers, either. Kitchen gadgets, high end sound systems, woodworking, a lot of random tech stuff, drones, &c. would be a lot more prevalent and get the benefits of scale. It's not like people are less inclined to putzing with stuff than our grandparents. We just can't afford to blow $hundreds on what is effectively just a way to enjoy the spare time that we also don't have.

    It's the same thing you can when they talk about how this or that sport or hobby (golf being a popular one for these kind of stories) is dying. There's a lot of thinkpieces about how it's cultural or people are too busy now or something but a lot of the time economists are just like "the younger generation just doesn't have enough money for it".

    The decline of golf has a lot to do with municipalities closing public courses, which were the only access most people had to the sport.

    And why disc golf is thriving. There are usually multiple free public disc golf courses in any decently sized city in the states, and you can grab a couple of discs for under $50, which is all you need to play.

    Regular golf is also thriving, thanks in part due to the pandemic. It's probably had the biggest resurgence this year since the renewed interest in the sport back in the mid 90s when Tiger burst onto the scene. I'm guessing largely in part because it gets us out of the house, and it's naturally very socially distant, at least with how bad my friends and I are at it.

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    Simpsonia wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    I Zimbra wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    moniker wrote: »
    The reason maker stuff isn't more widespread is the same reason a lot of things that are kind of pricey for what is effectively a hobby are not widespread: wage stagnation. If more people had more fun money lying around that wasn't a shield against emergencies or illness, there'd be a lot more demand for a lot of things. Which would spin up to better economic growth. Not just 3D printers, either. Kitchen gadgets, high end sound systems, woodworking, a lot of random tech stuff, drones, &c. would be a lot more prevalent and get the benefits of scale. It's not like people are less inclined to putzing with stuff than our grandparents. We just can't afford to blow $hundreds on what is effectively just a way to enjoy the spare time that we also don't have.

    It's the same thing you can when they talk about how this or that sport or hobby (golf being a popular one for these kind of stories) is dying. There's a lot of thinkpieces about how it's cultural or people are too busy now or something but a lot of the time economists are just like "the younger generation just doesn't have enough money for it".

    The decline of golf has a lot to do with municipalities closing public courses, which were the only access most people had to the sport.

    And why disc golf is thriving. There are usually multiple free public disc golf courses in any decently sized city in the states, and you can grab a couple of discs for under $50, which is all you need to play.

    Regular golf is also thriving, thanks in part due to the pandemic. It's probably had the biggest resurgence this year since the renewed interest in the sport back in the mid 90s when Tiger burst onto the scene. I'm guessing largely in part because it gets us out of the house, and it's naturally very socially distant, at least with how bad my friends and I are at it.

    Good point. I just love disc golf so much that I push it over regular golf all the time. Less stuffy, cheap as dirt to play, and in theory* less ecologically damaging.

    *I have no idea what the environmental cost all the plastic discs is -of which there are millions- that inevitably end up either lost in natural environments like ponds, or tossed in the trash.

    Dark_Side on
  • rndmherorndmhero Registered User regular
    edited January 2021
    I'll have to find the paper at some point, but the relatively convincing academic analysis I'd read basically said what shryke said. There are not significant differences in spending patterns on hobbies, food, other leisure, etc between millenials and older generations once you control for wealth. The younger generations are just systematically less wealthy than their parents, which means less spending across the board on all kinds of luxury goods. My wife and I would love to own jet skis or get skiing lessons at Aspen for the kid, but seeing as how we're both still paying off student loans 10+ years out of college, we'll just keep killing industries left and right over here instead.

    rndmhero on
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    rndmhero wrote: »
    I'll have to find the paper at some point, but the relatively convincing academic analysis I'd read basically said what shryke said. There are not significant differences in spending patterns on hobbies, food, other leisure, etc between millenials and older generations once you control for wealth. The younger generations are just systematically less wealthy than their parents, which means less spending across the board on all kinds of luxury goods. My wife and I would love to own jet skis or get skiing lessons at Aspen for the kid, but seeing as how we're both still paying off student loans 10+ years out of college, we'll just keep killing industries left and right over here instead.

    "but... but those aren't luxuries, those are just things you do."

    (some day, my poor nieces and nephews will probably have to explain things to me when I say that about stuff like "eating meat" or "going outside without PPE".)

  • KarozKaroz Registered User regular
    A new Economy Thread? In this Economy? It's more likely than you think!

    Steam gg.deals
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    rndmhero wrote: »
    I'll have to find the paper at some point, but the relatively convincing academic analysis I'd read basically said what shryke said. There are not significant differences in spending patterns on hobbies, food, other leisure, etc between millenials and older generations once you control for wealth. The younger generations are just systematically less wealthy than their parents, which means less spending across the board on all kinds of luxury goods. My wife and I would love to own jet skis or get skiing lessons at Aspen for the kid, but seeing as how we're both still paying off student loans 10+ years out of college, we'll just keep killing industries left and right over here instead.

    Yeah, I was honestly just too fucking lazy to go find a paper on this when I wrote that post. I've read it before.

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