AoS (which has a ‘hero phase’ which is nearly identical based on what we know) gives one command point per turn which you can bank for future turns, plus you start with 1+(number of warscroll battalions). Nu40k seems to invert that last bit though so the more detachments you have, the less CP you start with.
That said, 40k chews through CP way faster than AoS so I would expect it to be more per-turn, maybe based on battle scale as well.
Now that I’ve said that, I wonder if the new Nicaron Codex will do something similar to the Ossiarch Bonereapers and have them completely ignore the standard command points in favour of their own weird thing?
I would be so happy if they brought some of the stuff from AoS Chaos to 40k. Nurgle's wheel would be awesome for Death Guard for example. They have done a lot to make all the Chaos factions feel chaosy.
-Dynamic secondaries including ones focused for each army
-Dynamic missions with set deployments
-Point increases for everyone to make small tighter games, a rebalancing on day 1
-App will have everything updated and a match play army builder
-Dynamic secondaries including ones focused for each army
-Dynamic missions with set deployments
-Point increases for everyone to make small tighter games, a rebalancing on day 1
-App will have everything updated and a match play army builder
I am shaking in excitement.
Looking at the mission they give, it's 75% primary VPs and 25% secondaries. But the interesting thing with the primary mission is that it gets increasingly harder to claim all the points: you can get 5pts quick and easy by just holding one objective but only three times over the course of the game. If you want to go for the max you'll need have at least two objectives whilst denying the enemy a third for three turns at a minimum.
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited June 2020
Points increases to make games require less miniatures?
That was... unexpected.
Looking at the secondary objectives, Warpcraft Mental Interrogation is very similar to one of Infinity’s hacking secondary objectives. Very much in favour of this.
Thinking about it, ‘smaller games’ due to higher points costs ties in with ‘less hordes’.
I think GW might be trying to combat the "Warhammer is expensive" memes by making games require fewer models. Asking new players to come up with $500 or more for a new army in the middle of an economic recession doesn't seem like a great idea.
I think that it would be cool if there were more multi kits (like the old "troops + transport" discount boxes they did during 7th), or more battle boxes (like Tooth and Claw) with a variety of different armies that might make for good jumping in points for new players.
Personally I like bigger games and seeing lots of models on the table, it's kinda what drew me to Warhammer over other games in the genre.
But since 3000 points will be an official/supported game type anyway I'm not really worried about that.
But I am kinda bummed about the whole idea of making hordes bad. I don't play any myself, but it feels like that is a type of flavor and play style that fits certain gamers and factions, and I'm not a big fan of taking that away from people.
I hope that they don't overdo it and invalidate that style of play for the people that are drawn to it and enjoy it.
I have played far more small games than large games. I know of when I last played there was a very toxic group taunting people how they cannot afford to play apoc even though the armies from that era were the prizes in the tourney that store was running [I did win two of the apoc armies from that era and two of the demon sets in the last go around but I still feel he was doing them as prizes as that store was not selling them as they hoped}
I don't think they have given up on Apoc. It is a niche game but I am unsure. I mean all my stuff has cards so I haven't really checked.
I am happy for smaller armies. And having played and played against 120 plus infantry hordes it loses the shine when each movement phase takes 20 minutes. At least for me.
Even with point increases and changes I bet they will have 90+ boys on the table for Orks or 60 guardsmen or 30-40 cultist. Just for holding ground. There also is a lot we don't know about army building yet.
Speaking of Apoc I hope they haven't abandoned it.
They haven't been adding newer models to it and we're about to get a bunch more.
Yea, I'm kind of worried about Apoc as well. I really like the setup though none of my friends have armies large enough. They all have any enough models to basically run exactly 2000 points right now.
I'm hoping the narrative stuff from the 2019 chapter approved is still relevant too, I really like the idea of doing games of KT, 40K, and apoc to create a story.
I'm not really into increasing points to have fewer models on the table to speed up games. I like being able to run kind of absurd stuff together and higher point values is gonna be a bummer for me. I won't be able to run my 12 dreadnought list at 2k points anymore.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
0
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Went into the FPGS to grab the paint I forgot and they had a Kelermorph and a Locus on the shelf. I’ve been after these for a while.
+1
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I think GW might be trying to combat the "Warhammer is expensive" memes by making games require fewer models. Asking new players to come up with $500 or more for a new army in the middle of an economic recession doesn't seem like a great idea.
I think that it would be cool if there were more multi kits (like the old "troops + transport" discount boxes they did during 7th), or more battle boxes (like Tooth and Claw) with a variety of different armies that might make for good jumping in points for new players.
I've been "you want me to spend what?" away from a Craftworlds force for... 20 years now? Even picked up Warmachine because the cost of entry appeared lower when it came out.
I have to give GW credit; in the last few years they got me w/ Underworlds and their generally more-attentive approach to their fans. If they keep creeping friendlier I might finally paint some space elves in the next decade.
I think GW might be trying to combat the "Warhammer is expensive" memes by making games require fewer models. Asking new players to come up with $500 or more for a new army in the middle of an economic recession doesn't seem like a great idea.
I think that it would be cool if there were more multi kits (like the old "troops + transport" discount boxes they did during 7th), or more battle boxes (like Tooth and Claw) with a variety of different armies that might make for good jumping in points for new players.
I mean, they've already been doing this - the Start Collecting boxes are new-ish and cheap ways to get going with a faction, and it's not been super noticeable due to the volume of releases lately but they have been pumping out a ton of dual faction boxes during 8th (e.g., Craftworlds alone had Wake the Dead and Blood of the Phoenix).
Normalising smaller games as well by encouraging players to try out 500 and 1000 points is also another way to make it easier for new players to jump in. They've definitely been trying to move away from the "you need to remortgage a house to afford playing Warhammer" memes.
I think GW might be trying to combat the "Warhammer is expensive" memes by making games require fewer models. Asking new players to come up with $500 or more for a new army in the middle of an economic recession doesn't seem like a great idea.
I think that it would be cool if there were more multi kits (like the old "troops + transport" discount boxes they did during 7th), or more battle boxes (like Tooth and Claw) with a variety of different armies that might make for good jumping in points for new players.
I've been "you want me to spend what?" away from a Craftworlds force for... 20 years now? Even picked up Warmachine because the cost of entry appeared lower when it came out.
I have to give GW credit; in the last few years they got me w/ Underworlds and their generally more-attentive approach to their fans. If they keep creeping friendlier I might finally paint some space elves in the next decade.
You're in luck, their new plastic infantry kit is the most expensive per sprue ever now...wait
I hated the taunt/argument I have heard for years {since the viper/falcon came out} that the eldar were a premier army so expect to pay a high price for them}
1 command point per turn
Detachment with warlord doesn't cost command points
(Which might also be how drukhari might get around their special limitation)
-If your warlord is in a standard detachment (patrol, battalion, brigade) you get the cp for bringing that detachment
-Detachments take cp
-There are more general stratagems. The original 3 (pass morale, reroll, interrupt) are still around.
-One of the new ones is that if someone is falling back from combat you do some sort of attack based on the number of models in the unit. They said that falling back from a 30 ork boyz would hurt. No details on cp cost or actual mechanism
-Sounds like detachments may unlock actions
-Missions will have actions so bringing troops or other similar units where losing a turn of fire should be possible.
-Missions will have ways of generating CP each turn
-Characters and other special rules that generate extra cp now still work. So Abbadon if he is your Warlord still gives you 2 more cp. Knights in a big knight detachment generate extra CP.
I’m assuming you’re still required to use detachments, then? Cause looking at the battalion, there’s no actual benefit to having it, it’s just free if your warlord is in it. There’s no reason to want to use it unless the rules are still “everyone has to be part of a detachment”.
I’m a bit disappointed in that if so. I was hoping for something more like battalions in Sigmar, where you don’t have to use them but you can pay a cost for them and in return the units in it get a buff of some kind.
-If your warlord is in a standard detachment (patrol, battalion, brigade) you get the cp for bringing that detachment
-Detachments take cp
-There are more general stratagems. The original 3 (pass morale, reroll, interrupt) are still around.
-One of the new ones is that if someone is falling back from combat you do some sort of attack based on the number of models in the unit. They said that falling back from a 30 ork boyz would hurt. No details on cp cost or actual mechanism
-Sounds like detachments may unlock actions
-Missions will have actions so bringing troops or other similar units where losing a turn of fire should be possible.
-Missions will have ways of generating CP each turn
-Characters and other special rules that generate extra cp now still work. So Abbadon if he is your Warlord still gives you 2 more cp. Knights in a big knight detachment generate extra CP.
-If your warlord is in a standard detachment (patrol, battalion, brigade) you get the cp for bringing that detachment
-Detachments take cp
-There are more general stratagems. The original 3 (pass morale, reroll, interrupt) are still around.
-One of the new ones is that if someone is falling back from combat you do some sort of attack based on the number of models in the unit. They said that falling back from a 30 ork boyz would hurt. No details on cp cost or actual mechanism
-Sounds like detachments may unlock actions
-Missions will have actions so bringing troops or other similar units where losing a turn of fire should be possible.
-Missions will have ways of generating CP each turn
-Characters and other special rules that generate extra cp now still work. So Abbadon if he is your Warlord still gives you 2 more cp. Knights in a big knight detachment generate extra CP.
I’m assuming you’re still required to use detachments, then? Cause looking at the battalion, there’s no actual benefit to having it, it’s just free if your warlord is in it. There’s no reason to want to use it unless the rules are still “everyone has to be part of a detachment”.
I’m a bit disappointed in that if so. I was hoping for something more like battalions in Sigmar, where you don’t have to use them but you can pay a cost for them and in return the units in it get a buff of some kind.
Unlocks transports for infantry. There is a chance they give different abilities. I am curious for the full rules for army building.
-If your warlord is in a standard detachment (patrol, battalion, brigade) you get the cp for bringing that detachment
-Detachments take cp
-There are more general stratagems. The original 3 (pass morale, reroll, interrupt) are still around.
-One of the new ones is that if someone is falling back from combat you do some sort of attack based on the number of models in the unit. They said that falling back from a 30 ork boyz would hurt. No details on cp cost or actual mechanism
-Sounds like detachments may unlock actions
-Missions will have actions so bringing troops or other similar units where losing a turn of fire should be possible.
-Missions will have ways of generating CP each turn
-Characters and other special rules that generate extra cp now still work. So Abbadon if he is your Warlord still gives you 2 more cp. Knights in a big knight detachment generate extra CP.
-If your warlord is in a standard detachment (patrol, battalion, brigade) you get the cp for bringing that detachment
-Detachments take cp
-There are more general stratagems. The original 3 (pass morale, reroll, interrupt) are still around.
-One of the new ones is that if someone is falling back from combat you do some sort of attack based on the number of models in the unit. They said that falling back from a 30 ork boyz would hurt. No details on cp cost or actual mechanism
-Sounds like detachments may unlock actions
-Missions will have actions so bringing troops or other similar units where losing a turn of fire should be possible.
-Missions will have ways of generating CP each turn
-Characters and other special rules that generate extra cp now still work. So Abbadon if he is your Warlord still gives you 2 more cp. Knights in a big knight detachment generate extra CP.
The new stratagem is called cut them down. It is in the new article.
Not remotely good enough.
Seems like something thats basically impossible to balance for all army sizes
Still not great for really anyone due to the wording on engagement range. Considering the current engagement range is within 1" or within 1" of a model in 1" in that unit you never get a full 30 man ork boyz squad in combat.
Even so if you did you will average 5-6 MWs. Most of the time it is 1-3 MW which verse a lot of armies isn't enough punishment. Especially since falling back will allow the rest of the army to shoot at the melee unit usually killing it.
1 command point for 1-3 mortal wounds really isn't especially bad by most stratagem standards.
The problem is that spending 1 CP for 1-3 MW isn't enough compensation for having your unit get either destroyed or focused down to uselessness next turn.
My take would be "When an enemy unit falls back from combat, each unit it is engaged with rolls 2d6. If any unit rolls above the fleeing unit's move value, that unit does not fall back."
Last night I finally had a chance to read yesterdays community post about missions, primaries, secondary's, etc.
I was going to look at building a small BA force this year, but with the changes to missions and secondary's I might just invest more time/bucks into my Death Guard.
I love their aesthetic and the models are so much fun, I just got so sick of being completely ineffective in most games where I couldn't make it half way across the board by turn five and all my infantry hit like a wet paper bag.
I’m assuming you’re still required to use detachments, then? Cause looking at the battalion, there’s no actual benefit to having it, it’s just free if your warlord is in it. There’s no reason to want to use it unless the rules are still “everyone has to be part of a detachment”.
I’m a bit disappointed in that if so. I was hoping for something more like battalions in Sigmar, where you don’t have to use them but you can pay a cost for them and in return the units in it get a buff of some kind.
From what I gather, you use a battalion (or brigade or patrol) to keep your CP, that's the benefit. To use the more specialized detachments (vanguard, spearhead, etc) will cost CP.
So you take a more rigid detachment, but get more CP to play with, or take whatever specialized detachments you want but have less CP. I really like the balance in that.
Every detachment costs CP, even the first one, whether it's a battalion or something else. Only having a warlord as part of the detachment reimburses the CP it costs.
Probably an incentive to put your warlord in the biggest, most CP costing detachment you have.
Posts
I would be so happy if they brought some of the stuff from AoS Chaos to 40k. Nurgle's wheel would be awesome for Death Guard for example. They have done a lot to make all the Chaos factions feel chaosy.
Assume they'll be doing these as weekly events at a lot of GW stores.
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
KT as well. Its interesting.
Big things:
-Dynamic secondaries including ones focused for each army
-Dynamic missions with set deployments
-Point increases for everyone to make small tighter games, a rebalancing on day 1
-App will have everything updated and a match play army builder
I am shaking in excitement.
Also nice to see points values going back up across the board again. Games had gotten way too big by the end of 8th edition.
Seems like they're definitely leaning on ITC a bit.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/03/warhammer-40000-matched-play-points-and-an-appgw-homepage-post-1/
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Looking at the mission they give, it's 75% primary VPs and 25% secondaries. But the interesting thing with the primary mission is that it gets increasingly harder to claim all the points: you can get 5pts quick and easy by just holding one objective but only three times over the course of the game. If you want to go for the max you'll need have at least two objectives whilst denying the enemy a third for three turns at a minimum.
That was... unexpected.
Looking at the secondary objectives, Warpcraft Mental Interrogation is very similar to one of Infinity’s hacking secondary objectives. Very much in favour of this.
Thinking about it, ‘smaller games’ due to higher points costs ties in with ‘less hordes’.
I think that it would be cool if there were more multi kits (like the old "troops + transport" discount boxes they did during 7th), or more battle boxes (like Tooth and Claw) with a variety of different armies that might make for good jumping in points for new players.
But since 3000 points will be an official/supported game type anyway I'm not really worried about that.
But I am kinda bummed about the whole idea of making hordes bad. I don't play any myself, but it feels like that is a type of flavor and play style that fits certain gamers and factions, and I'm not a big fan of taking that away from people.
I hope that they don't overdo it and invalidate that style of play for the people that are drawn to it and enjoy it.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
They haven't been adding newer models to it and we're about to get a bunch more.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
I am happy for smaller armies. And having played and played against 120 plus infantry hordes it loses the shine when each movement phase takes 20 minutes. At least for me.
Even with point increases and changes I bet they will have 90+ boys on the table for Orks or 60 guardsmen or 30-40 cultist. Just for holding ground. There also is a lot we don't know about army building yet.
Yea, I'm kind of worried about Apoc as well. I really like the setup though none of my friends have armies large enough. They all have any enough models to basically run exactly 2000 points right now.
I'm hoping the narrative stuff from the 2019 chapter approved is still relevant too, I really like the idea of doing games of KT, 40K, and apoc to create a story.
I'm not really into increasing points to have fewer models on the table to speed up games. I like being able to run kind of absurd stuff together and higher point values is gonna be a bummer for me. I won't be able to run my 12 dreadnought list at 2k points anymore.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
I've been "you want me to spend what?" away from a Craftworlds force for... 20 years now? Even picked up Warmachine because the cost of entry appeared lower when it came out.
I have to give GW credit; in the last few years they got me w/ Underworlds and their generally more-attentive approach to their fans. If they keep creeping friendlier I might finally paint some space elves in the next decade.
I mean, they've already been doing this - the Start Collecting boxes are new-ish and cheap ways to get going with a faction, and it's not been super noticeable due to the volume of releases lately but they have been pumping out a ton of dual faction boxes during 8th (e.g., Craftworlds alone had Wake the Dead and Blood of the Phoenix).
Normalising smaller games as well by encouraging players to try out 500 and 1000 points is also another way to make it easier for new players to jump in. They've definitely been trying to move away from the "you need to remortgage a house to afford playing Warhammer" memes.
You're in luck, their new plastic infantry kit is the most expensive per sprue ever now...wait
1 command point per turn
Detachment with warlord doesn't cost command points
(Which might also be how drukhari might get around their special limitation)
Some key take aways:
-If your warlord is in a standard detachment (patrol, battalion, brigade) you get the cp for bringing that detachment
-Detachments take cp
-There are more general stratagems. The original 3 (pass morale, reroll, interrupt) are still around.
-One of the new ones is that if someone is falling back from combat you do some sort of attack based on the number of models in the unit. They said that falling back from a 30 ork boyz would hurt. No details on cp cost or actual mechanism
-Sounds like detachments may unlock actions
-Missions will have actions so bringing troops or other similar units where losing a turn of fire should be possible.
-Missions will have ways of generating CP each turn
-Characters and other special rules that generate extra cp now still work. So Abbadon if he is your Warlord still gives you 2 more cp. Knights in a big knight detachment generate extra CP.
That is off my list.
Article up:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/04/taking-command-of-your-pointsgw-homepage-post-1/
I’m a bit disappointed in that if so. I was hoping for something more like battalions in Sigmar, where you don’t have to use them but you can pay a cost for them and in return the units in it get a buff of some kind.
My Let's Play Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC2go70QLfwGq-hW4nvUqmog
The new stratagem is called cut them down. It is in the new article.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Not remotely good enough.
You talk clean and bomb hospitals, so I speak with the foulest mouth possible
Unlocks transports for infantry. There is a chance they give different abilities. I am curious for the full rules for army building.
Seems like something thats basically impossible to balance for all army sizes
Still not great for really anyone due to the wording on engagement range. Considering the current engagement range is within 1" or within 1" of a model in 1" in that unit you never get a full 30 man ork boyz squad in combat.
Even so if you did you will average 5-6 MWs. Most of the time it is 1-3 MW which verse a lot of armies isn't enough punishment. Especially since falling back will allow the rest of the army to shoot at the melee unit usually killing it.
The problem is that spending 1 CP for 1-3 MW isn't enough compensation for having your unit get either destroyed or focused down to uselessness next turn.
My take would be "When an enemy unit falls back from combat, each unit it is engaged with rolls 2d6. If any unit rolls above the fleeing unit's move value, that unit does not fall back."
I was going to look at building a small BA force this year, but with the changes to missions and secondary's I might just invest more time/bucks into my Death Guard.
I love their aesthetic and the models are so much fun, I just got so sick of being completely ineffective in most games where I couldn't make it half way across the board by turn five and all my infantry hit like a wet paper bag.
I need to see their PA book, like now.
Gamertag - Khraul
PSN - Razide6
From what I gather, you use a battalion (or brigade or patrol) to keep your CP, that's the benefit. To use the more specialized detachments (vanguard, spearhead, etc) will cost CP.
So you take a more rigid detachment, but get more CP to play with, or take whatever specialized detachments you want but have less CP. I really like the balance in that.
Probably an incentive to put your warlord in the biggest, most CP costing detachment you have.