[WH40K] 9th Edition is here

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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    They're just bad at writing rules and frequently release new units that are either too strong or to weak, and you just don't remember the ones that are too weak because you never see them on the table, no one ever talks about them, etc.

    This also explains the "cycle" of coming out overpowered and then being made useless just in time for the new model to be sold. They're bat at writing rules and so they overcorrect when they address an imbalance. Just as Reivers were a cool new Primaris kit that was released and continues to e useless by accident, Wraithknights are still paying for the sins of 7th edition by accident, not grand design.

    Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence, basically.

    They are bad at both ends, and that is what is so frustrating. They are bad at balancing units initially, and then they are equally bad at not overreacting to whatever the meta is when they start writing a book. Was the Repulsor Executioner so OP it needs to be nerfed in to uselessness? Of course not...but what was happening around the time they were writing this book? Iron Hands was going crazy, Raven Guard centurions were all the rage and a few top players were abusing Aggressors. So they overreact nerf those, while also overtuning a new unit. I agree with you, it's icompetence more than malice....but that doesn't make it any less infuriating. I, like a lot of others, thought I saw signs of a change in them with 8th, but whatever faction internally was winning the rules battle at the start of 8th has decidedly been crushed and we're back to very classic GW yoyo rule making.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    I'll be honest, I spent a good 5+ years playing some other big mainstream games and it wasn't much better there. Infinity quickly lost the 'it's not your list, it's you' moniker the fanbase liked as it got more competitive, and there were clearly units and profiles that were just not worth taking. Malifaux likes to tout its balance being based on picking your crew after knowing your objectives, but the same thing happened there where people figured out the general best units to take in a faction (completely ignoring the theme heavy focus of the game and using the same overly good mercenaries everywhere) and just swapped in the few situationally good units as objectives dictated.

    GW is particularly bad at it, but I can't say my forays to other companies games were met with the greener grass I was led to believe was there.

    As usual, it came down to playing friendly games with friends having the most fun and variety just like 40k.

    -Loki- on
    Nechriah
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    legit the only game asymmetric game with as large of design space as 40k I can think of that doesn't suffer from the cycle of overbuffs and nerfs is Brood War

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    To be fair, Starcraft only has three armies, and Blizzard has only added seven units in the last 20+ years. That's quite a bit easier to balance than a game with dozens of factions and hundreds of units.

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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Went heavy on the pre order. Got some lokhust destroyers, the new walker, silent king, both codex, the Necron data cards, and the dice.

    Kind of glad next weekends pre order all I want is the Deathmark Destroyer. Though I still want to buy the Deathmark mini from wargame exclusives.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
    KhraulArdol
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    The start was rough and the last couple years have been rough but Magic the Gathering is a great example of balance done right in an incredibly complicated design, they had something like a 20 year span of really great balance at release. Even when they fucked it up in the last few sets (How the hell did Oko get printed?) they quickly and appropriately corrected the problem.

    Their "secret" is spending time and money on carefully developing each new release. Shocking, I know! I don't want to be too hard on GW, since they really have tried in the last few years and correcting their mistakes every few months is so much better than the "every few years" they were doing before but... so many units are obviously bad or obviously great on paper, upon cursory inspection, the first time you read its rules.

    If something overpowered combination or tactic develops organically that you didn't foresee, OK fine. But all those units you see in a codex and just immediately know are not worth fielding? The ones you read and think "wait, what the fuck"? Those really shouldn't happen.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    They really have to get past codexes and rules updates as a product point.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    So I was cleaning out that cupboard yesterday, you know the one, everyone had one, the one that hasn’t been touched in years.

    Managed to find an unopened box of metal sternguard and perhaps more importantly for my current project, 90% of a metal nightbringer 14 year old me bought to use as a tzeentch demon.

    It’s pretty nice to find 350 points for your current army build not gonna lie, especially when it’s this good. Just had to replace the scarabs and the blade, both thankfully easy replacements.

    Gnome-InterruptusKhraulArdol
  • NechriahNechriah Registered User regular
    kci764mhmtmm.jpeg

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  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Been watching this.


    And off building a marine army is going to be a chore. Each weapon has different points based on what you put it on. Very old school

    GW WHERE IS MY DAMN LIST BUILDER!

    Having seen the points page, it makes way more sense in the codex. The new point page layout in the book is *chefs kiss*

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
    Gamertag - Khraul
    PSN - Razide6
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    FAQs for everyone*, indices for some:

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/05/codex-updates-wargear-profiles-and-rules/

    Deathwatch looks grim - No special issue ammunition on primaris, bikers, storm bolters

    yikes

    *for varying definitions of everyone

    KetBra on
    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Really not happy with the change to Wulfen.

    On the other hand Thunderwolf Calvary seem pretty awesome now.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    Stragint wrote: »
    Really not happy with the change to Wulfen.

    On the other hand Thunderwolf Calvary seem pretty awesome now.

    Losing the extra attack aura and 5+++ for +1 Toughness and always-on Assault Doctrine? Edit: also 3ppm and cheaper weapons.

    Mr_Rose on
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  • McGibsMcGibs TorontoRegistered User regular
    crossposting from the hobby thread because ATV's are relevant.
    We all know the new Invader ATV looks like a dumb GI Joe Mario cart. Statwise, it's also clearly just two Outrider bikes glued together.

    Soooo.... I went and glued two outrider bikes together to make my own.
    retromarines_invader_wip01.jpg

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    METAL SLUG?!

    McGibsStyrofoam SammichNipsNorgothsee317Khraul
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    edited October 5
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Really not happy with the change to Wulfen.

    On the other hand Thunderwolf Calvary seem pretty awesome now.

    Losing the extra attack aura and 5+++ for +1 Toughness and always-on Assault Doctrine?

    They also can't advance and charge anymore, aren't a core unit so can't benefit from auras, and their shield got the nerf to 4++. I was expecting the shield so pretty meh.

    Savage killers is definitely good and T5 is nice but losing the advance and charge is the biggest issue for me.

    Stragint on
    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
    Khraul
  • pardzhpardzh Registered User regular
    They didn't add 2W CSM in the FAQ like they said they would lol

    Saw a chance to sell another book, because it's apparently coming with the new Codex... Which hasn't been announced

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  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Some Codices get updates on stuff that isn't technically identical with Marine weapons. For example craftworld dragon breath flamer got the range increase and all the admech plasma weapons got the updated gets hot rule.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Really not happy with the change to Wulfen.

    On the other hand Thunderwolf Calvary seem pretty awesome now.

    Losing the extra attack aura and 5+++ for +1 Toughness and always-on Assault Doctrine?

    They also can't advance and charge anymore, aren't a core unit so can't benefit from auras, and their shield got the nerf to 4++. I was expecting the shield so pretty meh.

    Savage killers is definitely good and T5 is nice but losing the advance and charge is the biggest issue for me.

    That is a point. They even made Swift Killers a common special rule too…
    Still, 4ppm cheaper with the assault launchers is nothing to sneeze at, and the frost claws are 10pts cheaper on top.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    edited October 5
    pardzh wrote: »
    They didn't add 2W CSM in the FAQ like they said they would lol

    Saw a chance to sell another book, because it's apparently coming with the new Codex... Which hasn't been announced

    I think they specifically said the wounds updates weren't in a FAQ but tied to the upcoming codexes. It was the weapons that were being updated in a FAQ (if they were the same as marine weapons).

    TheGerbil on

    Khraul
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    My Deathwatch are staying shelved till the supplement comes out and then I am going to *cough* preview it to see if I am keeping them. I didn't buy them to just play normal marines with a neat paint job and that is what they are looking like.

    CSM even not getting the 2w which pisses me off but whatever got some nice stuff for certain units.

    -Warp talons are base 3 attacks now instead of 2 with the lightning claw changes. 4 on the charge. 5 on the charge with world eaters. Their point change isn't way too bad at the moment.
    -Raptors got a nice upgrade with the -1 ap sword and melta changes. Also the 12" flamers are good.
    -Lucius got a buff! I know. The +1 strength on his power sword is really useful. Making him strength 5 is a huge boost to his usefulness.
    -CSM Termis are pretty damn good still and its worth bringing reaper chainswords and heavy flamers for deep strikes. Heavy flamers being 12" range and reapers being ap -2 are really nice

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  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    *removes bolter+chainsword loadout for vanilla death company*

    someone at GW is in my brain and *hates* me.

    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • ElaroElaro Threadkiller, Harbinger of the Lock GodsRegistered User regular
    *removes bolter+chainsword loadout for vanilla death company*

    someone at GW is in my brain and *hates* me.

    Good thing I only glued one of my strike squads to have full twin falchion loadout...

    Wait, no! I only glued together my Grey Knight Kill Team, my 3 purgation squads, and one normal strike squad member! Go go Psykiku Sentai!

    My ongoing quest to ask Larlar if he's a good source of Malarlarkey: NEW SCHEME HATCHING
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Dark Angels got bufffed!!!!

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
    Khraulpardzh
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Really not happy with the change to Wulfen.

    On the other hand Thunderwolf Calvary seem pretty awesome now.

    Losing the extra attack aura and 5+++ for +1 Toughness and always-on Assault Doctrine?

    They also can't advance and charge anymore, aren't a core unit so can't benefit from auras, and their shield got the nerf to 4++. I was expecting the shield so pretty meh.

    Savage killers is definitely good and T5 is nice but losing the advance and charge is the biggest issue for me.

    That is a point. They even made Swift Killers a common special rule too…
    Still, 4ppm cheaper with the assault launchers is nothing to sneeze at, and the frost claws are 10pts cheaper on top.

    Yea, I don't think they are bad, I'm just not happy with the hit to their mobility.

    Basically always having the combat Doctrine and shock assault up will be brutal for anyone they get into contact with. I am curious if they also get relentless hunter off of Savage killers though I doubt it since the rule specifically called out shock assault.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    *removes bolter+chainsword loadout for vanilla death company*

    someone at GW is in my brain and *hates* me.

    Good thing I only glued one of my strike squads to have full twin falchion loadout...

    Wait, no! I only glued together my Grey Knight Kill Team, my 3 purgation squads, and one normal strike squad member! Go go Psykiku Sentai!

    hey guess what didn't get updated with the rest of the flamer weapons?

    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    edited October 6
    Stragint wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Really not happy with the change to Wulfen.

    On the other hand Thunderwolf Calvary seem pretty awesome now.

    Losing the extra attack aura and 5+++ for +1 Toughness and always-on Assault Doctrine?

    They also can't advance and charge anymore, aren't a core unit so can't benefit from auras, and their shield got the nerf to 4++. I was expecting the shield so pretty meh.

    Savage killers is definitely good and T5 is nice but losing the advance and charge is the biggest issue for me.

    They lost their FNP as well.

    Khraul on
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  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    12” range hand flamers means my Metamorph flamebomb doesn’t need to use a 3 point stratagem to use their hand flamers and can now attempt a charge afterwards.

    I am happy.

  • ElaroElaro Threadkiller, Harbinger of the Lock GodsRegistered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    *removes bolter+chainsword loadout for vanilla death company*

    someone at GW is in my brain and *hates* me.

    Good thing I only glued one of my strike squads to have full twin falchion loadout...

    Wait, no! I only glued together my Grey Knight Kill Team, my 3 purgation squads, and one normal strike squad member! Go go Psykiku Sentai!

    hey guess what didn't get updated with the rest of the flamer weapons?

    I'll pick "Everything the grey knights use" for 500, Alex!

    My ongoing quest to ask Larlar if he's a good source of Malarlarkey: NEW SCHEME HATCHING
  • Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    Elaro wrote: »
    *removes bolter+chainsword loadout for vanilla death company*

    someone at GW is in my brain and *hates* me.

    Good thing I only glued one of my strike squads to have full twin falchion loadout...

    Wait, no! I only glued together my Grey Knight Kill Team, my 3 purgation squads, and one normal strike squad member! Go go Psykiku Sentai!

    hey guess what didn't get updated with the rest of the flamer weapons?

    I'll pick "Everything the grey knights use" for 500, Alex!

    dingdingdingdingding

    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
  • -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Ooohhh Cult units emerging from Ambush no longer automatically count as moving. This is also quite big, especially for surprise Mining Laser attacks.

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I think what I'm most excited for with my Space Wolves and the new codex is that I can apparently use all those models I've been wanting to use. I can make my Oops All Dreadnoughts list more fun with some Ironclad Dreadnoughts and I can also use Centurions. I will wait to know for sure but gonna be stoked if it is real.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    My brother will be excited if the codex is not a copy paste mess like the previous one. and the iron out the blood claw-grey hunter/slayer-long fang system on primaris
    As there are far too many units sporting long fang and blood claw shoulders

  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    I finally got hold of everything I needed and magnetised a warham joint.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Wondering, what, if anything, they'll do with Tau to move away from the shitty place they're in.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    Lotta Thousand Sons players not happy today with the weapon faq.

    DDLLLLDL - Bottom in November
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    WW - Champions in May

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Typical GW to be inconsistent about what they update and what not. Tau get changes to all the ion guns to bring them in line with plasma weapons, but the warpflamer doesn't get an update.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I was expecting Xenos weapons to remain unchanged, but I'm genuinely surprised that Chaos marines didn't benefit from the shift to two wounds. It's got to feel real bad to be a Chaos player right now.

  • evilbobevilbob Registered User regular
    Wait did they walk that back or did it turn out to be a when their codex comes out thing?

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    Wait did they walk that back or did it turn out to be a when their codex comes out thing?

    When their books come out.

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