[Heroes of the Storm] "Holy FUCKING shit" - Blizzard 2020.

milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
edited July 4 in Games and Technology
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What's new?
Heroes, in a nutshell, is a game in which two teams are trying to destroy the Core of the opposing team. The Core is similar to the Ancient in DotA or the Nexus in League. Each team has a base with Forts, Towers, Gates, Healing Wells, and Walls to help them defend their core.

At regular intervals waves of NPC Minions spawn in each base and march down pre-defined lanes to attack the enemy. It is the job of the players to help attack down these lanes and destroy the enemy team's base and ultimately their Core. To help with this, each of the maps has a special map objective that gives a big bonus of some sort to the team that completes the objective. Generally each objective will be completed 3-5 times per match before the core is destroyed.

Just like the waves of NPC Minions who spawn and march towards each other in battle, so too do the player characters respawn when they die and continue to fight. The amount of time it takes to respawn is directly related to how long the game has been running. In a new game that is only minutes old, a player will respawn almost immediately. In games over 15 minutes in length the spawn timers will reach a full 60 seconds.

Core: The first team to destroy their opponent's Core wins the map. The Core has a recharging shield which is worth about 15% of the total health of the Core. This shield regenerates very quickly when the Core is out of combat for 8 seconds. The Core also shoots a lightning blast at a target that will also damage enemies near that target. It follows the same targeting rules as Forts and Towers (see below), but is immune to many effect that shut down structures.

Tower: The first line of defense in each base. Towers have limited ammo which regenerates over time. Towers prioritize minions and summoned units and will ignore player characters as long as there is a minion or summoned unit within range. Unlike other MOBAs, the Towers in Heroes will not target a player character if that character attacks an enemy hero while within range.

Forts: Each lane has one Fort, which is located behind a wall and two towers. These Forts have a lot of HP and attack with ammo just like Towers do, but they also slow enemy movement and attack speed which makes them a decent place to defend from. Destroying a Fort yields a considerable XP payout, making them primary targets in the early game.

Keeps: After a Fort, the last line of a lane's defense before the Core are Keeps. These function similarly to Forts, and will also pay out big XP if destroyed. If a keep is destroyed, the opposing lane will start spawning long-range, high-damage catapults alongside the usual minions. Therefore, it's very important protect your keeps while destroying your opponents'.

Healing Wells: If you have played Warcraft 3 then you are probably familiar with the Healing Wells, as they operate similarly to the Moon Wells of the Night Elves. They are on a timer, and restore Health and Mana when you click them. The Health and Mana provided by these Wells is not instant, as the restoration happens over time.

Spawn Point: Each team spawns behind their Core in the safety of their base. There is a magical shield barrier that prevents the enemy team from entering the spawn location, and this shield stops all spells and attacks. Spawn Points also have instant-mounting while you are inside, and you regenerate Health and Mana at a very fast rate while standing in the spawn.

Minions spawn down the lane like merry lemmings just waiting to die to a tower or hero. They are...

1. Soldiers: Dudes with swords, they lead the minion waves. Tend to have higher-than-average HP and a weak melee attack.
2. Archers: Dudes with, get this, bows. They're in the back of the wave, boasting lower HP but a decent ranged attack.
3. Mages: Wizards that coast in the middle of the pack. They deal ranged damage, but the more important thing is that they drop a green orb on death that will give you and nearby teammates a little bit of HP and mana back. There's only one per minion wave, so try to get that orb!
4. Catapults: Beefy siege units that assault bases with a long-range attack. They only spawn when the enemy's final fort in that lane has fallen, giving you incentive to keep that damn fort alive. They can easily outrange towers/forts/cores, meaning they will slowly whittle down a base unless stopped.

Each map also contains a scattering of Mercenary Camps in the "jungle" area between the lanes. These Merc Camps are neutral NPCs that can be defeated by players and hired to fight for the team that captures them. To capture a Mercenary Camp, the players must defeat them in combat (or bribe them) and then stand within a capture circle for a few seconds to gain control of the camp. It is possible for the enemy team to steal the camps if they push you out of the circle or kill you before you can claim it.

1. Siege Camps: These camps contain two giant siege monsters which hurl large rocks at their enemies. They have long range and can out-range towers and forts, which make them very advantageous for lane pushing. These are the easiest camps to defeat and can be solo'd by most heroes by level 10.
2. Bruiser Camps: Formerly known as the "Knight Camps," these are squads of 4 soldiers (3 melee and 1 spellcaster) who possess a lot of HP and decent damage damage. These camps are more difficult to take and typically require 1-2 people to capture.
3. Boss Camps: These camps generally require 3+ heroes to kill, depending on team levels and what heroes are present. These are high HP / high Damage monsters that can do devastating amounts of damage in a lane. They ignore minions and other mercenaries and will only target enemy structures. They cast a Pound skill that can be avoided by moving out of the telegraphed smash circle. They also cast a targeted root spell on occasion against enemy heroes, telegraphed by a smaller circle.
4. Map-Specific Creeps: From pirates on Blackheart Bay to the plant monsters in the Garden of Terror, these mercs will NOT join your side, but instead drop objective-relevant items that help you win the game like skulls, coins, and so on. Difficulty and rewards vary by map.

So what else? There is no item shop. No in-game gold. No items to be bought. No shoes or rods of whatever. "Blasphemy!" you might say, but Heroes is feeling pretty heretical. Instead of items, you get talents roughly every 3-4 levels. These are anywhere from 2-5 choices that change how your character functions. It might be "killing minions gives you more damage" or "your auto-attacks now slow enemies." At level 10 you unlock your Heroic Ability (aka your ult), and even that has choices! Every character has two heroic abilities, so pick the one most suited for the current game.

If you have played other MOBAs and are accustomed to buying boots, this game doesn't have them. Instead it has Mounts (default Z key). Attacking or taking damage dismounts you, and re-mounting does have a brief cooldown. Not all characters can mount up, but instead have mobility skills that in most cases let them get to an area REALLY FAST but has a much longer cooldown.

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    The creator of that meme doesn't know the difference between efficient and sufficient.

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    kimefortymilk ducksMoridin889MNC Dover
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    "oops you character model turned around to chuck a Q and you lost your armor stacks because of the animation, time to spend 3 full-ass seconds out of the fight now" is good game design

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    fortymilk ducksMoridin889MNC Dover
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Sweet, I inspired the first title for the new thread!
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Her armor drops off so quickly that, if she gets stunned (when you'd want the armor the most) it's completely stripped away and useless against enemy follow-up. Hell, it's almost completely gone by the time she's thrown a Q.
    Yup, it's weird how the thing that jumped out at me immediately just from reading her patch notes didn't seem to to be of any concern to Blizzard from design, to implementation, to play testing.

    forty on
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    milk ducks
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Dibby wrote: »
    "oops you character model turned around to chuck a Q and you lost your armor stacks because of the animation, time to spend 3 full-ass seconds out of the fight now" is good game design
    Blizzard wrote:
    Avoidance [Trait]
    Duration increased from .5 to .625.
    "Peasants, how dare you mock our generous gift to you!"

    Smrtnik wrote: »
    The creator of that meme doesn't know the difference between efficient and sufficient.
    True, but they do know the difference between a decent hero and one that is a burning dumpster of loaded baby diapers, unlike some devs...

    forty on
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    Smrtnikmilk ducksDibby
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    The justification for and first iteration of the tower changes was also very suspect. In that case they made a huge change and didn't realize that it basically made pushing with the objective a bad strategy. I have absolutely no doubt that if pro play existed they would've exposed that flaw within a week by outright refusing to fight over certain objectives, a la Haunted Mines.

    milk ducks
  • ForceVoidForceVoid Registered User regular
    Here there new thread

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    It’s funny how out of date the OP has become. Skeleton crew can’t be tasked to update it though. :(

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    If I update the opening post, it's literally just going to say

    DAWN OF THE FINAL DAY
    24 PLAYERS REMAIN

    fortykimeDibbyWhelkSaerisInvictusMoridin889
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Get saddled with Deckard on Brawl, where I tend to play him with the potions that restore health over time, along with mana, and later on they splash to nearby targets. I know it's not a meta build, but it works in Brawl because everyone's constantly clumped up, I can continuously get like 40% spellpower bonus from his level 1 talent, etc. We get a few minutes into the match, and our Muradin is like "lol you didn't take Ruby, scrub". I don't reply, just keep doing my job. In the end, I only die once and we win because I smashed out 300k Healing. And as we're killing their Core, I say, "Oh no, muh Ruby!" To which he replies, "Your build is trash, bitch."

    It's almost like, you know, different builds work in different scenarios.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I never take anything but Rejuv potion because I like being a mana battery (for myself if nothing else).

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    Smrtnik
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Here's how I play Deckard Cain in Brawls:

    Field Study at level 1 gives you 20%/40% increased spellpower after landing Scrolls of Sealing, then Cube Mastery at 7 reduces the cooldown of Scroll of Sealing by 4 seconds for every target hit. So, in a scenario where it's 5v5 constantly skirmishing down one lane? That's a permanent 40% spellpower (healing) bonus.

    Rejuvenation Potions at 4 make your Q restore some Mana in addition to adding a HoT component. And Potion of Revival at 13 makes your Potions splash 50% of their healing to nearby targets. Once that happens, I literally stop throwing potions at teammates and instead hold down ALT-Q and walk up on people who need healing. That way, they can't fucking dodge my heals anymore, and I can constantly restore my own health and mana as I keep them topped.

    Safety in Numbers is an awesome level 16 pickup, because the conditions of the talent (at least 3 allied heroes nearby) will always be met in a Brawl. So once I've hit level 16, I permanently have 15% Damage Reduction, 50% increased Mana Regeneration, and my basic abilities cooldown 50% faster. Literally fucking massive power-spike.

    And then at 20 grab Bottomless Flask because it's ridiculous. Especially, again, in a scenario where you're just constantly pushing and fortifying and holding positions.

    Like, is it a meta Deckard build? Fuck no. But will it win the ever-loving-shit out of an ARAM Brawl? Fucking count on it.

    Smrtniktyrantula22DibbyMoridin889
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Honestly I think Field Study is worth it in normal games too. Certainly not meta but I think the meta is wrong :P

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Ruby is meta.

    kime
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Ruby is meta.

    That's what I'm saying. Yeah, Ruby's great. That's the way people play Cain right now, and that's fine. I'm just saying like, this dude flipped out on me because I didn't take Ruby, then called me a bitch after I won the game for him, and said the build was bad because it's not meta. And I mean, okay? You still won the match, man. And frankly, only because I did 300k Healing and kept all these sad dumb fuckers alive. Which was only possible because I played a build that was more appropriate to the scenario we were actually in.

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Ducks:
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Here's how I play Deckard Cain in Brawls:

    Field Study at level 1 gives you 20%/40% increased spellpower after landing Scrolls of Sealing, then Cube Mastery at 7 reduces the cooldown of Scroll of Sealing by 4 seconds for every target hit. So, in a scenario where it's 5v5 constantly skirmishing down one lane? That's a permanent 40% spellpower (healing) bonus.

    Rejuvenation Potions at 4 make your Q restore some Mana in addition to adding a HoT component. And Potion of Revival at 13 makes your Potions splash 50% of their healing to nearby targets. Once that happens, I literally stop throwing potions at teammates and instead hold down ALT-Q and walk up on people who need healing. That way, they can't fucking dodge my heals anymore, and I can constantly restore my own health and mana as I keep them topped.

    Safety in Numbers is an awesome level 16 pickup, because the conditions of the talent (at least 3 allied heroes nearby) will always be met in a Brawl. So once I've hit level 16, I permanently have 15% Damage Reduction, 50% increased Mana Regeneration, and my basic abilities cooldown 50% faster. Literally fucking massive power-spike.

    And then at 20 grab Bottomless Flask because it's ridiculous. Especially, again, in a scenario where you're just constantly pushing and fortifying and holding positions.

    Like, is it a meta Deckard build? Fuck no. But will it win the ever-loving-shit out of an ARAM Brawl? Fucking count on it.
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Ruby is meta.

    That's what I'm saying. Yeah, Ruby's great. That's the way people play Cain right now, and that's fine. I'm just saying like, this dude flipped out on me because I didn't take Ruby, then called me a bitch after I won the game for him, and said the build was bad because it's not meta. And I mean, okay? You still won the match, man. And frankly, only because I did 300k Healing and kept all these sad dumb fuckers alive. Which was only possible because I played a build that was more appropriate to the scenario we were actually in.

    Muradin:......
    Ducks:......
    Muradin:.....
    Ducks........
    Muradin: Your build is trash, bitch.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 28
    I'm always nervous about taking Safety in Numbers even in ARAM because my team will often be rather scattered between the diving Genji or Muradin on one side and the Raynor off on another side. And if someone does happen to die it's almost guaranteed it won't be active. It's just such a super binary talent that requires too much faith in my team. I can only count on my team being close together if the other team has Kael'thas or is about to wombo us.

    I could maybe see taking it in a win more game where we have been death balling well and constantly pushing forward together by the time 16 rolls around.

    forty on
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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Ruby is meta.

    That's what I'm saying. Yeah, Ruby's great. That's the way people play Cain right now, and that's fine. I'm just saying like, this dude flipped out on me because I didn't take Ruby, then called me a bitch after I won the game for him, and said the build was bad because it's not meta. And I mean, okay? You still won the match, man. And frankly, only because I did 300k Healing and kept all these sad dumb fuckers alive. Which was only possible because I played a build that was more appropriate to the scenario we were actually in.

    Ah yeah I misread that as the other way around. Regardless, people who complain about talent choices, especially in ARAM, are not worth arguing with.

    Smrtniktyrantula22
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    It's sad to think that all the annoying bugs, interface issues, etc. will probably never get fixed since the game is running on fumes.

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  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    What interface issues do they have now? They've actually just made interface/QoL changes recently, at the very least with favorited talent builds, so there's still hope!

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    There have been bugs with the party interface for years now that are unlikely to get fixed. Things like someone not being able to pick a hero, people not being able to click ready/unready, everyone hitting ready but the game not actually queuing. Some of this is usually fixed by the party leader clicking around through game modes. The ready bug seems to require a full disbanding or sometimes even relogging.

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  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    Not having try mode buried in the shop would be nice...

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    wra
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Yeah really. It always takes at least a minute just to get a hero to Try Mode. Gotta go to shop, get it off the lousy default "featured" filter, then you can finally find your hero. It is a surprisingly large amount of actions. And if you don't do it much it's well hidden for the times you want to do it.

    It's like they never envisioned someone wanting to do Try Mode outside of deciding whether or not to buy a hero.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    My suggestion was to have the Try Mode added to the right click options on the selected hero in the QM menu. It can’t be that hard to copy the code that sets you to the try mode from the collection manager and paste it into there, right?

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    My suggestion was to have the Try Mode added to the right click options on the selected hero in the QM menu. It can’t be that hard to copy the code that sets you to the try mode from the collection manager and paste it into there, right?

    If you do that, it will break the backpack in World of Warcraft.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Never underestimate the spaghetti.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    My suggestion was to have the Try Mode added to the right click options on the selected hero in the QM menu. It can’t be that hard to copy the code that sets you to the try mode from the collection manager and paste it into there, right?

    If you do that, it will break the backpack in World of Warcraft.

    I don’t get that reference. I’m assuming a small change broke WoW?

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    My suggestion was to have the Try Mode added to the right click options on the selected hero in the QM menu. It can’t be that hard to copy the code that sets you to the try mode from the collection manager and paste it into there, right?

    If you do that, it will break the backpack in World of Warcraft.

    I don’t get that reference. I’m assuming a small change broke WoW?

    Blizzard shit is unmanageable spaghetti code where changing something of any import often breaks something else.

    Wow is the most notorious example.

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    WoW is no joke built on top of WC3. It started as an experiment to see if they could and then it worked and they just kind of ran with it with many many tweaks on top of it. Major changes to systems happen every expansion and early in every patch.

    When you make a new character, you get a 16 slot backpack and 4 empty "bag" slots on your character. Each slot holds an item. Summer items stack, consumables and trade goods mostly, and those that do have a maximum stack size, which varies by item and has increased over time for many items. In a bag slot you can put in a bag. The smallest bag gives you one item slot (it's kind of a holiday event joke bag, smallest "real bag" back in vanilla was 4 slots). The biggest bag in vanilla was 16 slots, biggest one now is 38 iirc. Bags are creatable by the tailoring profession and some vendors sell small ones. Each expansion upped the max size a bit with new tailoring recipes.

    For years and years, people asked for a bigger backpack than 16 slots. At some point one of the top WoW dev folks said unfortunately the backpack code is part of a tangled mess nobody dares mess with and it could break all kinds of systems of they did. People laughed it off.

    A couple of expensions ago (WoD or maybe legion) they announced they were adding 4 more slots to the backpack for accounts that had the 2 factor authenticator attached. They were very proud of it, was big news at the time. Go team! Authenticators are good for Blizzard because they reduce customer service calls from folks with stolen accounts. Before it was a cell phone app it was a physical dongle you could buy at manufacture cost.

    That prepatch broke all kinds of random things, all related to the extra 4 slots.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    EZOXBLFXYAIOhi0.jpg

    Decided to actually play a game of Cassia since I legit never touched her since the rework. Yeah, uh, I can see why E build is the only functional build. It effectively lets you ignore all the weird jank bullshit nerfs and changes she got while still shitting out damage. It's the only build that has a reliable source of damage thanks to the slow on E. It is super safe because of the Protected. It's great at finishing people off due to the increased damage below 50% health.

    But you try to walk up and auto, you're dead lol.

    So basically one game was all it took to understand why Cassia is so bad. Like straight up, that 3 second Armor stacking shit needs to GO. It needs to go yesterday. Hoo boy that is horrendously unfun. They also did something to the way her stutterstepping works that just makes it feel awful now? Like there's a significant delay before her next auto comes out and it just feels horrendous. You try and actually get the stutterstep off and the auto just doesn't come out and it's just weird and butt-awful. Oh, well, yeah, they reduced her Attack Speed I guess, that'd do it. And nerfed her "Weapon period" which I think relates to animation speed? Not sure. They need to unnerf ALL the damage nerfs they threw at her. Avoidance needs to be .75 sec duration minimum. They just NEED TO INCREASE HER ATTACK RANGE. Why are they still so insistent on keeping her at this weird 4.5 attack range. If not 5.5 then at least 5, come on.

    So... I basically just couldn't fucking auto that game very much at all, because of all the aforementioned jank. I turn around to try and get an auto off, oops Avoidance fell off! I turn around and chuck a Q oops Avoidance fell off! Avoidance up and I'm tanky as all fuck and nothing does any damage to me, if it drops I am the squishiest asshole in the universe. All I was doing was chucking Qs for poke and just Fending in when it was safe (after 13, that became "always" lul).

    But mainly, playing this stupid fucking maintenance/upkeep game with the Trait is just fucking awful. Get fucking rid of that, good lord.

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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Man your screenshot actually makes it look like Cassia is good.

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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Man your screenshot actually makes it look like Cassia is good.

    i think it's more that i'm actually good

    8-)

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Played a trio of SL games tonight. Lost the first game with a standard team that had no coordination. Typical Silver shit. No one looking at camps, soaking lanes, focusing, and so forth.

    Second game though I got paired up with a 4-stack all in voice. When we started the game, one of them was saying we should get our camps right away. I was impressed! And they soak lanes and care about level advantage?! Woot!

    I went into shotcaller mode, which surprisingly worked given they were a 4-stack, and we took over on Towers after a slow start. They invited me to the group and we destroyed in game 3 on Volkskya. It wasn't even close. At one point, we all had items and couldn't pick up new ones. :)

    Felt good to have a fun and winning game of HotS. Sad to know that won't come around again for a long time.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Supposedly there's a hero coming out before the end of this year. I hope it's Reinhardt.

    milk ducksGeneral_Armchair
  • ForceVoidForceVoid Registered User regular
    They haven't had a tank in forever and he would have been an amazing Blizzcon reveal.

    Moridin889
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    The fact that WoW even still works in 2020, let alone that it looks as good as it does at times, is frankly the work of programming black magic.

    SmrtnikSaeris
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Supposedly there's a hero coming out before the end of this year. I hope it's Reinhardt.

    A new hero? In Heroes of the Storm?

    In 2020???

    *laughs in Activision-Blizzard*

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Maybe the real Hero is the one inside of all of us, because we've stuck with this game as long as we have, and had so many great adventures along the way.

    lol no, I want fucking Bwonsamdi.

    DibbySeGaTaiforty
  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    Supposedly there's a hero coming out before the end of this year. I hope it's Reinhardt.

    I'd be happy with Reinhardt, but I'm still hoping for Arcturus Mengsk and and Arcturus Mengsk announcer.

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    Reinhardt is just such like such a perfect fit for HoTS.

    Braum but with a charge ult. Copy paste

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