Like, I'm bad at HotS. I get that, I accept that. But how are the 5 people in high Masters and allowing Fan to just roll over their bases like this?
The tragedy of solo queue where you don't have one person who picked a dedicated solo laner. It's not obvious without comms who really needs to drop back and deal with him. By themselves it's hard to say who can actually 1v1 and punish GM; kerrigan has to land a whole combo on one person in open field; diablo needs a wall to punish and once he leaves the rest of his team is boned; GM gets out once zarya/auriel/tass show up on his map.
Other problem is by the time you send someone back early on right; he still gets 1-2 towers maybe; types worth when he gets ganked and its really no loss; against very fast pushers it's really easy to spend too many resources chasing them around the map and never getting your team comp rolling.
It would probably be amusing to track down cattle's stream of the same game; they are 5v4 for minutes and can't make anything happen. If you can't make something happen 5v4 even down a talent; it's kinda a loss either way
While were at it, change Shadow Fissure to 30 second cooldown and get rid of the 1.5 reset on hit. Or keep it as is and make Nova's Precision Strike 20 second cooldown with a 1.5 second reset on hit.
They need to do something about the cooldown since that's one of the most broken things about it. Either ditch the reset on hit, or keep the reset but dramatically increase the cooldown if you whiff the shot. I don't know, 100 120 seconds if you miss? I'm not an expert but you get the general idea.
With the way things are right now, you can just throw it out without a care. Use it as soft CC to help your teammates. Toss it down in your opponent's path and force them to path around it or eat damage. If they take the detour, a pursuing teammate may catch up to them. Or, if they're chasing a teammate, the nuke may peel the enemy off the friendly. If they take the damage then nothing can stop you from doing it again since it resets. That skill hurts. People can't afford to opt to tank those hits in favor of pursuing a friend for long.
If you're paying attention or communicating with a teammate, then you can do this anywhere on the map. Hell, if your teammates have CC anywhere on the map, then you can drop a big nuke on their head to help out. Come to think of it, why does it even have global range anyway? It would still be crazy strong even if its range was only sufficient to participate in KTZ's wombo combo.
Like, I'm bad at HotS. I get that, I accept that. But how are the 5 people in high Masters and allowing Fan to just roll over their bases like this?
I'm also a bad, so maybe I'm giving them too much credit, but to my eyes they were kind of in a shit situation either way. During his ~10 minute push, his team had objective + 4 heroes on bottom, which the other team is basically forced to address. There's maybe a small window to deal with Fan after they killed the punisher and started pushing back on bottom, but Fan's team was a continued threat in the bottom lane if they went back to deal with Fan, and they were behind on levels/map pressure. Similarly, with the 16 minute push, it seems to me they were basically forced to commit fully to the punisher, as it was in their empty lane and it was probably an instant loss if they didn't take it.
Frankly, from the title and your post, I was expecting that Fan was just getting away with some sort of crazy Murky style full game split push, but his first attempt to solo a Fort was actually thwarted by Tassadar (to the extent that Fan actually died), and his later success in pushing seemed mostly to be a result of his team already being ahead and having the freedom to capitalize on that lead. Maybe Master players should be better able to dig themselves out of those situations, I dunno, but at my level it's a bit hard to see how they really could have dealt with it given the other circumstances/misplays/whatever that lead to them being behind.
Edit: OK I don't feel completely alone since SeGaTai had a similar read.
While were at it, change Shadow Fissure to 30 second cooldown and get rid of the 1.5 reset on hit. Or keep it as is and make Nova's Precision Strike 20 second cooldown with a 1.5 second reset on hit.
They need to do something about the cooldown since that's one of the most broken things about it. Either ditch the reset on hit, or keep the reset but dramatically increase the cooldown if you whiff the shot. I don't know, 100 120 seconds if you miss? I'm not an expert but you get the general idea.
With the way things are right now, you can just throw it out without a care. Use it as soft CC to help your teammates. Toss it down in your opponent's path and force them to path around it or eat damage. If they take the detour, a pursuing teammate may catch up to them. Or, if they're chasing a teammate, the nuke may peel the enemy off the friendly. If they take the damage then nothing can stop you from doing it again since it resets. That skill hurts. People can't afford to opt to tank those hits in favor of pursuing a friend for long.
If you're paying attention or communicating with a teammate, then you can do this anywhere on the map. Hell, if your teammates have CC anywhere on the map, then you can drop a big nuke on their head to help out. Come to think of it, why does it even have global range anyway? It would still be crazy strong even if its range was only sufficient to participate in KTZ's wombo combo.
I think a super long base cooldown would make it too much of a "bad in Bronze, OP at high levels" sort of talent, which obviously Blizzard is OK with for some heroes. I definitely think either the reset or global range is what should be looked at during a rework. I don't know about nerfing it in a vacuum, since Kel seems to be at best a mediocre hero right now.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
The real problem is that the other team got ganked/lost a fight right before the objective at 7:30. Once that happens, Fan's team gets 13 talent tier advantage, mid fort, and a lead on the objective, which is fine but not an insurmountable problem per se given how early it is in the game.
Then Zarya died again, which staggered yet another death right before Fan's team capped the objective. This is what made a losing-but-winnable game into a massive uphill battle. Early game Punishers nowadays are actually not that strong - there's a good argument to be made that the best thing to do if the fort is still up in the Punisherlane is to push hard in another lane while making sure you get the soak (reminiscent of basic Cursed Hollow strategy when you win the curse). But if you lose someone right before the Punisher spawns and are unable to defend it adequately, the other team now has free reign to not only push with the Punisher but also get massive value in the other lanes, because you no longer have enough warm bodies to get the split soak and defend against siege elsewhere.
Once the Punisher died, the other team should've gone back to normal soak rotations and just conceded the map until the next shrine spawned top. It feels shitty but you have enough time to make sure you get that top shrine fight at 16 talent tier parity. And maybe if the other team is out of position you can get a gank somewhere, too (Diablo+Kerrigan = gank potential anywhere on the map). Instead they try to force the issue by trying to win a haymaker slugfest fight at bot, and end up being stalled out for the rest of the game when the other team is able to 4-man sustain against transparent engagements. Not only do they get 16 later than they should but they also lost all of their top lane structures in the process, putting them in a near-checkmate position, because now they have to constantly choose between contesting the top shrine, which has an open lane for a Punisher push, or giving up bottom/mid keep.
It's worth noting that at this point they actually catch up a bit because they win a bot lane fight. But it's not enough because they are still a talent tier down (20-18) and they still face the same situation where if they hard contest the shrine, the other team gets value elsewhere, but if they don't contest the shrine then they are basically conceding the game.
Fan actually played one of the better heroes for the situation - Greymane has insane siege value if he's uncontested. But he could've been playing any hero with decent waveclear/siege and it would've worked the same. The main difference is that Greymane was able to help secure those early kills, which is what started the cascade. There's absolutely no way that a meme hero like Zagara or Murky would've been able to get that kill against Zarya at 7:30. It's Greymane with Bullet who is able to dive onto any of their beefy front-liners and potentially delete them.
It also didn't help that the other team drafted an early-game deathball comp and weren't able to deathball.
TL;DR
(1) Dying is bad
(2) Dying right before an objective spawns or is capped is super bad
(3) Notice how the team playing hyper-aggressively lost, and if Fan's team decided to do the same and "ride the wave" and force fights everywhere, including at that final top shrine, they would've actually increased their chances of losing instead of just stalling things out and getting value all over the map.
I'd like to take a moment to appreciate the smoothness of Fan's GM clearing those minion waves. Going in slash, slash, flip out, cocktail, clean-up. It looked so clean. And he kept his combo up over 100 by carefully hitting the walls, which is straight bonkers.
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
What I find particularly interesting/funny is how the last two posted videos go together. We have the the "basic micro" video, and how it's talking about how you need to look at the minimap and count. Then we have the video of Fan, and what does he do multiple times in that video? Literally pop over to the team fight and count that there's still 5 of them over there while he's pushing. If that can't solidify the point of paying attention to where the enemy team is, I'm not sure anything will.
Edit: apparently I can't read forty's posts, since he basically just said this lol.
I just joined Reddit so I could ask for help in the Voice Acting subreddit. I made a nice post and everything, then it got auto-deleted because I don't have enough karma. What the hell is Karma? I went and looked it up. OK, it's like points or something I earn from posting. Fine...I comment on somebody's voice dub of a comic and that gets blocked. Oh, you need Karma to do ANYTHING in the subreddit.
So....now I'm commenting in the HotS subreddit. What have I done?
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
I just joined Reddit so I could ask for help in the Voice Acting subreddit. I made a nice post and everything, then it got auto-deleted because I don't have enough karma. What the hell is Karma? I went and looked it up. OK, it's like points or something I earn from posting. Fine...I comment on somebody's voice dub of a comic and that gets blocked. Oh, you need Karma to do ANYTHING in the subreddit.
So....now I'm commenting in the HotS subreddit. What have I done?
I just joined Reddit so I could ask for help in the Voice Acting subreddit. I made a nice post and everything, then it got auto-deleted because I don't have enough karma. What the hell is Karma? I went and looked it up. OK, it's like points or something I earn from posting. Fine...I comment on somebody's voice dub of a comic and that gets blocked. Oh, you need Karma to do ANYTHING in the subreddit.
So....now I'm commenting in the HotS subreddit. What have I done?
You joined reddit. That was your mistake lol
I know, I know. I've avoided it for so long, but I'm really wanting to get serious with my voice work and I need avenues and discussions with others to start taking the next step. My usual voice work site kicked me off the front page of the search results for no reason, and all my voice work revenue has dried up as a result. It's extremely stressful. :bigfrown:
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
I just joined Reddit so I could ask for help in the Voice Acting subreddit. I made a nice post and everything, then it got auto-deleted because I don't have enough karma. What the hell is Karma? I went and looked it up. OK, it's like points or something I earn from posting. Fine...I comment on somebody's voice dub of a comic and that gets blocked. Oh, you need Karma to do ANYTHING in the subreddit.
So....now I'm commenting in the HotS subreddit. What have I done?
did... did the VA subreddit have rampant issues with fresh accounts trolling them or something? That's an odd policy, even for as much of a shitcan reddit normally is
Edit: I got most of my karma from posting on the custom magic cards subreddit. You could dig up all those old custom hearthstone cards you did and post them in customhs :P
I just joined Reddit so I could ask for help in the Voice Acting subreddit. I made a nice post and everything, then it got auto-deleted because I don't have enough karma. What the hell is Karma? I went and looked it up. OK, it's like points or something I earn from posting. Fine...I comment on somebody's voice dub of a comic and that gets blocked. Oh, you need Karma to do ANYTHING in the subreddit.
So....now I'm commenting in the HotS subreddit. What have I done?
did... did the VA subreddit have rampant issues with fresh accounts trolling them or something? That's an odd policy, even for as much of a shitcan reddit normally is
Edit: I got most of my karma from posting on the custom magic cards subreddit. You could dig up all those old custom hearthstone cards you did and post them in customhs :P
Yeah what the fuck this is an actual good suggestion, I'm over here spewing horseshit but TEG's all like "bruh, I gotchu"
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
To be fair, specialized subreddits about specific disciplines, games, and the like are fine. It's the major ones and the ones controlled by the same handful of super-moderators that are the issue. Those places are mostly full of robots, karma farmers, and people with the self-awareness and critical thinking skills of a sack of potatoes.
To be fair, specialized subreddits about specific disciplines, games, and the like are fine. It's the major ones and the ones controlled by the same handful of super-moderators that are the issue. Those places are mostly full of robots, karma farmers, and people with the self-awareness and critical thinking skills of a sack of potatoes.
Pretty much this. Reddit is really no better or worse than any other place imo, and I always think it's funny when people jump to hate on it. It's just a matter of how you use it. If you stick to all the main/default subreddits that you are given when you start then yeah, you'll probably have a bad time. They have SO many users, tons of bots, etc that it's just bad. But when you break off those into smaller, more niche subreddits it gets better. Not all of them work out, like HOTS can be hit or miss, but I don't spend much time there. The boardgames subreddit is great though. So you just kinda have to work out the ones that work for you.
To be fair, specialized subreddits about specific disciplines, games, and the like are fine. It's the major ones and the ones controlled by the same handful of super-moderators that are the issue. Those places are mostly full of robots, karma farmers, and people with the self-awareness and critical thinking skills of a sack of potatoes.
Pretty much this. Reddit is really no better or worse than any other place imo, and I always think it's funny when people jump to hate on it. It's just a matter of how you use it. If you stick to all the main/default subreddits that you are given when you start then yeah, you'll probably have a bad time. They have SO many users, tons of bots, etc that it's just bad. But when you break off those into smaller, more niche subreddits it gets better. Not all of them work out, like HOTS can be hit or miss, but I don't spend much time there. The boardgames subreddit is great though. So you just kinda have to work out the ones that work for you.
In the past, Reddit made some bad decisions with advertisers and what content they allowed, iirc. I don't know if they've changed or not since then, maybe they are better. But there was a point years ago where they were a Bad Site that I did not want to support. That's not getting into the culture of people who browse Reddit or whatnot, which I imagine is fairly diverse, like you said.
The main problem with Reddit is that it's one giant echo chamber, and it's way way too focused on Fake Internet Points
It's almost impossible to have a meaningful discussion because of how the upvote/downvote system works. It's literally rich get richer poor stay poor kind of deal. And god forbid you have an opinion that other people disagree with. Downvoted to oblivion! The way the site is built, too, it shows the top voted comments at the top, right? At least by default. It makes it SO hard to have any sort of meaningful dialogue because in order to maximize gaming the system you have to get comments in early when the thread is newly created, otherwise it just gets buried under all the other highly voted comments. It's very common in highly upvoted threads; you see a bunch of comments at the top with a bunch of upvotes, but scroll down down down and you'll see even more that just sit there with 0 votes.
It's a terrible system. It's just a bunch of people vying for 1st place in a popularity contest.
A forum/message board works out way better for having actual conversations.
Hey, I have 4 Karma now thanks to my post on "Improve one Talent on a hero."
My suggestion:
I'd love to see Nova be more of a "Scout" for her team. So I'd change her Holo Stability talent at level 4.
From:
Holo Stability: Increase the cast range of Holo Decoy by 100% and it's duration by 120%.
To:
Holo Stability: Increase the duration of Holo Decoy by 120%.
Quest: Have your Holo Decoy absorb damage. Damage from enemy Heroes counts as double.
Reward: After absorbing 10,000 damage*, gain a second charge of Holo Decoy.
Reward: After absorbing 20,000 damage*, Holo Decoy has unlimited range.
(*Don't quote me on the damage numbers, those could be higher or lower depending on testing. Ideally, the second half of the quest would be completed around level 10.)
This would give Nova a lot of scouting to see if it was safe to go in for a gank, find enemies in the mid-late game (are they bossing?), or set up Precision Strike kills on enemies that barely escape or pesky Abathurs/Murky eggs.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
The main problem with Reddit is that it's one giant echo chamber, and it's way way too focused on Fake Internet Points
This is why I've come to unironically appreciate 4chan. Don't get me wrong, that site's a fucking cesspool. But there are no barriers to entry, and posts are completely anonymous, which is something I find refreshing, honestly, because anonymous users will tell you the truth about any given subject. They're not trying to score fake internet points, and they have no reason to lie. Yeah, it's a disgusting place; I'll never pretend it isn't. But when I want to know how people really feel about something -and, again, I mean how they really feel, not how they want people to think they feel- when I want to read actual points and counterpoints on a subject, I frequently search on 4chan.
The main problem with Reddit is that it's one giant echo chamber, and it's way way too focused on Fake Internet Points
This is why I've come to unironically appreciate 4chan. Don't get me wrong, that site's a fucking cesspool. But there are no barriers to entry, and posts are completely anonymous, which is something I find refreshing, honestly, because anonymous users will tell you the truth about any given subject. They're not trying to score fake internet points, and they have no reason to lie. Yeah, it's a disgusting place; I'll never pretend it isn't. But when I want to know how people really feel about something -and, again, I mean how they really feel, not how they want people to think they feel- when I want to read actual points and counterpoints on a subject, I frequently search on 4chan.
Also, fuck 4chan.
I mean, keep in mind you are learning "how a very specific group of people feel about a subject."
The main problem with Reddit is that it's one giant echo chamber, and it's way way too focused on Fake Internet Points
That is still mainly an issue in the larger/default subs. You get into the smaller ones and it's not as big. I mean, arguably small group (even like this forum) are an echo chamber to something to a degree. Any group/site is going to have an issue where people start to follow one trend and that just gets magnified with more people in it. HOTS is ded game, right?
I honestly prefer reading threads in reddit more than forums because of the way they are nested. Multiple conversions can be had without "talking over" each other like what happen in forums. This one isn't bad, but that's also because there's like what, 15 people that regularly post? So it doesn't get crowded with different threads of discussion, for better or worse anyways. However, you are definitely right on the upvote/downvote part of it. There are some things you can do (like sort by controversial vs top) to try to find "better" discussion, but again, that's still a bigger issue in the larger subs than the smaller ones. The smaller subs just don't have enough comments to truly bury other peoples stuff, even when it's downvoted. Basically main subs are the exact cesspool you are referring to, but if you just remove yourself from them, reddit isn't really that bad of a place imo.
As to the advertiser thing, I think I remember something about that, but I honestly don't remember what came of it. It probably "changed" but just stayed the same really. That's how that works right?
The main problem with Reddit is that it's one giant echo chamber, and it's way way too focused on Fake Internet Points
This is why I've come to unironically appreciate 4chan. Don't get me wrong, that site's a fucking cesspool. But there are no barriers to entry, and posts are completely anonymous, which is something I find refreshing, honestly, because anonymous users will tell you the truth about any given subject. They're not trying to score fake internet points, and they have no reason to lie. Yeah, it's a disgusting place; I'll never pretend it isn't. But when I want to know how people really feel about something -and, again, I mean how they really feel, not how they want people to think they feel- when I want to read actual points and counterpoints on a subject, I frequently search on 4chan.
Also, fuck 4chan.
I mean, the fact that it's anonymous and "doing it for the lols" is enough for many people to lie.
I mean, keep in mind you are learning "how a very specific group of people feel about a subject."
I have a very low opinion of people, generally, Kime.
In my estimation, most everyone is selfish and awful, and will commit all manner of greedy, disgusting behavior, so long as they think they can, and an opportunity presents itself.
The people on 4chan just don't have any reason to pretend to be anything otherwise. And even though I find 99% of that site to be just, objectively atrocious, I do find that element of it refreshing.
I was an edgy, dumb-ass teenager, man, and I started hanging out on 4chan back in the day because I thought it was funny. I've grown out of that phase of my life, but if there's one takeaway from my experience on that site -one, small piece of wisdom you can take or leave at your leisure- it's that you're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't accurately represent the world we live in; that the people who hang out there aren't your neighbors, your friends, and your family. People are terrible, Kime; they just know how to hide it in polite company.
I mean, keep in mind you are learning "how a very specific group of people feel about a subject."
I have a very low opinion of people, generally, Kime.
In my estimation, most everyone is selfish and awful, and will commit all manner of greedy, disgusting behavior, so long as they think they can, and an opportunity presents itself.
The people on 4chan just don't have any reason to pretend to be anything otherwise. And even though I find 99% of that site to be just, objectively atrocious, I do find that element of it refreshing.
I was an edgy, dumb-ass teenager, man, and I started hanging out on 4chan back in the day because I thought it was funny. I've grown out of that phase of my life, but if there's one takeaway from my experience on that site -one, small piece of wisdom you can take or leave at your leisure- it's that you're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't accurately represent the world we live in; that the people who hang out there aren't your neighbors, your friends, and your family. People are terrible, Kime; they just know how to hide it in polite company.
But point taken.
Anyone who wasn't an edgy dumbass teenager who said and did stupid awful shit is probably lying to themselves tbh!!
We all did that shit. And then that's part of growing up, is growing out of that and learning from that.
Dibby on
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Always nice to be appreciated:
Also, QM in one image:
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ApogeeLancks In Every Game EverRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
I think I achieved peak HOTS today.
Killing the vikings eight times in a row is really satisfying!
The main problem with Reddit is that it's one giant echo chamber, and it's way way too focused on Fake Internet Points
This is why I've come to unironically appreciate 4chan. Don't get me wrong, that site's a fucking cesspool. But there are no barriers to entry, and posts are completely anonymous, which is something I find refreshing, honestly, because anonymous users will tell you the truth about any given subject. They're not trying to score fake internet points, and they have no reason to lie. Yeah, it's a disgusting place; I'll never pretend it isn't. But when I want to know how people really feel about something -and, again, I mean how they really feel, not how they want people to think they feel- when I want to read actual points and counterpoints on a subject, I frequently search on 4chan.
Also, fuck 4chan.
It's not that anonymous people won't lie, since they will. Depending on the topic they may have all sorts of ulterior motives. You can never innately accept that their word is truthful, but you can hear them out and determine if their argument has merit in its own right. The thing about anonymous forums is that anonymous people don't need to preserve a reputation. This makes it easier for people to accept an alternative viewpoint when they get proven wrong on the topic since they don't need to own up to the bitter pill of admitting that they were wrong in the first place. This means that in many cases the superior arguments will win out on their own merits and the proponents of the false position quietly bow out instead of desperately continuing the fight in order to preserve their own dignity. If someone's argument convinces you that you were wrong, you don't need to admit to your mistake. You simply accept the new position and no one has any leverage to use your old mistaken position against you in the future with ad hominem attacks.
Anonymity is also useful when voicing arguments for unpopular positions. In such cases arguments for the unpopular position can stand on their own merits without the author needing to fear repercussions either from a general mob of people unwilling to listen to arguments or from a biased entity like a church or government that has a vested interest in preserving the popular position. A few historical examples that predate the internet off the top of my head of popular opinions that were later discredited are acceptance of the theory of evolution, the adoption of the Sol centric model of our solar system, and the blame for the Reichstag fire.
Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
edited August 2020
People are generally stupid and uninformed. Ourselves included.
I fail to see the benefit of browsing anything that is entirely free from moderation and curation given the prevalence of bots and trolls on the internet. The problem would only be worse, not better.
When you consider opportunity cost, the illusory truth effect, and various other forms of cognitive bias and psychological priming, the idea that you can somehow drink from the fire hose that is the unchecked, unbridled internet and expect to come away meaningfully informed is incredibly suspect. Garbage in, garbage out. This is true not only for computers, but for your mind as well.
This also extends to the realm of public debate, where you cannot expect to have a meaningful discussion if "people" are allowed to spam their opinions and run rampant over the discourse. Consider that even in the case of a dysfunctional Congress, where you have a limited number of participants following a constrained process, the concept of a filibuster still exists and must needs be controlled against. People can and will suck all the oxygen out of a room if they think it will benefit them in some way, consciously or not. At some point, you have to have standards in place to ensure decorum and progress.
I'd also point out that at some point you have to trust the other people involved to be constructive actors. There is no possible way for any single person to properly consume, comprehend, compare, and contrast every piece of information that comes their way, particularly for incredibly specialized fields and disciplines. You trust your doctor to diagnose you for illness. You trust your plumber to fix your pipes properly. These people themselves work on a body of knowledge that has been developed over decades, if not centuries, and cannot possibly know everything even within their own specialties.
If you cannot expect to make a meaningful decision about your own healthcare in the absence of a doctor, why do you feel empowered to assess whether or not some random fuckwad on the internet has something informative to say about literally anything?
Grubby ( ) announced it, the org he's in is doing this. Some deets
- The upcoming league is focused on the North American region (Europe could come at a later date)
- Players in the Grand Master and Master ranks are welcome
- The league is kicking off in the winter
- The first season will be 12 weeks long
- There will be two broadcasts each week with two best-of-five matches streamed each broadcast
- The rosters will be selected in a live draft format, similar to that of professional sports where players are selected out of a pool of participants by organizations
- A larger info dump will be coming next Tuesday, August 18th
Critically, the $$$ information is not available yet. Maybe will next week on the "larger" info dump? Either way though, this sounds like something interesting!
Posts
The tragedy of solo queue where you don't have one person who picked a dedicated solo laner. It's not obvious without comms who really needs to drop back and deal with him. By themselves it's hard to say who can actually 1v1 and punish GM; kerrigan has to land a whole combo on one person in open field; diablo needs a wall to punish and once he leaves the rest of his team is boned; GM gets out once zarya/auriel/tass show up on his map.
Other problem is by the time you send someone back early on right; he still gets 1-2 towers maybe; types worth when he gets ganked and its really no loss; against very fast pushers it's really easy to spend too many resources chasing them around the map and never getting your team comp rolling.
It would probably be amusing to track down cattle's stream of the same game; they are 5v4 for minutes and can't make anything happen. If you can't make something happen 5v4 even down a talent; it's kinda a loss either way
They need to do something about the cooldown since that's one of the most broken things about it. Either ditch the reset on hit, or keep the reset but dramatically increase the cooldown if you whiff the shot. I don't know, 100 120 seconds if you miss? I'm not an expert but you get the general idea.
With the way things are right now, you can just throw it out without a care. Use it as soft CC to help your teammates. Toss it down in your opponent's path and force them to path around it or eat damage. If they take the detour, a pursuing teammate may catch up to them. Or, if they're chasing a teammate, the nuke may peel the enemy off the friendly. If they take the damage then nothing can stop you from doing it again since it resets. That skill hurts. People can't afford to opt to tank those hits in favor of pursuing a friend for long.
If you're paying attention or communicating with a teammate, then you can do this anywhere on the map. Hell, if your teammates have CC anywhere on the map, then you can drop a big nuke on their head to help out. Come to think of it, why does it even have global range anyway? It would still be crazy strong even if its range was only sufficient to participate in KTZ's wombo combo.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Frankly, from the title and your post, I was expecting that Fan was just getting away with some sort of crazy Murky style full game split push, but his first attempt to solo a Fort was actually thwarted by Tassadar (to the extent that Fan actually died), and his later success in pushing seemed mostly to be a result of his team already being ahead and having the freedom to capitalize on that lead. Maybe Master players should be better able to dig themselves out of those situations, I dunno, but at my level it's a bit hard to see how they really could have dealt with it given the other circumstances/misplays/whatever that lead to them being behind.
Edit: OK I don't feel completely alone since SeGaTai had a similar read.
Then Zarya died again, which staggered yet another death right before Fan's team capped the objective. This is what made a losing-but-winnable game into a massive uphill battle. Early game Punishers nowadays are actually not that strong - there's a good argument to be made that the best thing to do if the fort is still up in the Punisherlane is to push hard in another lane while making sure you get the soak (reminiscent of basic Cursed Hollow strategy when you win the curse). But if you lose someone right before the Punisher spawns and are unable to defend it adequately, the other team now has free reign to not only push with the Punisher but also get massive value in the other lanes, because you no longer have enough warm bodies to get the split soak and defend against siege elsewhere.
Once the Punisher died, the other team should've gone back to normal soak rotations and just conceded the map until the next shrine spawned top. It feels shitty but you have enough time to make sure you get that top shrine fight at 16 talent tier parity. And maybe if the other team is out of position you can get a gank somewhere, too (Diablo+Kerrigan = gank potential anywhere on the map). Instead they try to force the issue by trying to win a haymaker slugfest fight at bot, and end up being stalled out for the rest of the game when the other team is able to 4-man sustain against transparent engagements. Not only do they get 16 later than they should but they also lost all of their top lane structures in the process, putting them in a near-checkmate position, because now they have to constantly choose between contesting the top shrine, which has an open lane for a Punisher push, or giving up bottom/mid keep.
It's worth noting that at this point they actually catch up a bit because they win a bot lane fight. But it's not enough because they are still a talent tier down (20-18) and they still face the same situation where if they hard contest the shrine, the other team gets value elsewhere, but if they don't contest the shrine then they are basically conceding the game.
Fan actually played one of the better heroes for the situation - Greymane has insane siege value if he's uncontested. But he could've been playing any hero with decent waveclear/siege and it would've worked the same. The main difference is that Greymane was able to help secure those early kills, which is what started the cascade. There's absolutely no way that a meme hero like Zagara or Murky would've been able to get that kill against Zarya at 7:30. It's Greymane with Bullet who is able to dive onto any of their beefy front-liners and potentially delete them.
It also didn't help that the other team drafted an early-game deathball comp and weren't able to deathball.
TL;DR
(1) Dying is bad
(2) Dying right before an objective spawns or is capped is super bad
(3) Notice how the team playing hyper-aggressively lost, and if Fan's team decided to do the same and "ride the wave" and force fights everywhere, including at that final top shrine, they would've actually increased their chances of losing instead of just stalling things out and getting value all over the map.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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Edit: apparently I can't read forty's posts, since he basically just said this lol.
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>.<'
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wra
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
So....now I'm commenting in the HotS subreddit. What have I done?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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You joined reddit. That was your mistake lol
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I know, I know. I've avoided it for so long, but I'm really wanting to get serious with my voice work and I need avenues and discussions with others to start taking the next step. My usual voice work site kicked me off the front page of the search results for no reason, and all my voice work revenue has dried up as a result. It's extremely stressful. :bigfrown:
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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i suggest you do that if you want that sweet sweet upvote karma
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
did... did the VA subreddit have rampant issues with fresh accounts trolling them or something? That's an odd policy, even for as much of a shitcan reddit normally is
Edit: I got most of my karma from posting on the custom magic cards subreddit. You could dig up all those old custom hearthstone cards you did and post them in customhs :P
Yeah what the fuck this is an actual good suggestion, I'm over here spewing horseshit but TEG's all like "bruh, I gotchu"
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Pretty much this. Reddit is really no better or worse than any other place imo, and I always think it's funny when people jump to hate on it. It's just a matter of how you use it. If you stick to all the main/default subreddits that you are given when you start then yeah, you'll probably have a bad time. They have SO many users, tons of bots, etc that it's just bad. But when you break off those into smaller, more niche subreddits it gets better. Not all of them work out, like HOTS can be hit or miss, but I don't spend much time there. The boardgames subreddit is great though. So you just kinda have to work out the ones that work for you.
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In the past, Reddit made some bad decisions with advertisers and what content they allowed, iirc. I don't know if they've changed or not since then, maybe they are better. But there was a point years ago where they were a Bad Site that I did not want to support. That's not getting into the culture of people who browse Reddit or whatnot, which I imagine is fairly diverse, like you said.
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It's almost impossible to have a meaningful discussion because of how the upvote/downvote system works. It's literally rich get richer poor stay poor kind of deal. And god forbid you have an opinion that other people disagree with. Downvoted to oblivion! The way the site is built, too, it shows the top voted comments at the top, right? At least by default. It makes it SO hard to have any sort of meaningful dialogue because in order to maximize gaming the system you have to get comments in early when the thread is newly created, otherwise it just gets buried under all the other highly voted comments. It's very common in highly upvoted threads; you see a bunch of comments at the top with a bunch of upvotes, but scroll down down down and you'll see even more that just sit there with 0 votes.
It's a terrible system. It's just a bunch of people vying for 1st place in a popularity contest.
A forum/message board works out way better for having actual conversations.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
My suggestion:
From:
Holo Stability: Increase the cast range of Holo Decoy by 100% and it's duration by 120%.
To:
Holo Stability: Increase the duration of Holo Decoy by 120%.
Quest: Have your Holo Decoy absorb damage. Damage from enemy Heroes counts as double.
Reward: After absorbing 10,000 damage*, gain a second charge of Holo Decoy.
Reward: After absorbing 20,000 damage*, Holo Decoy has unlimited range.
(*Don't quote me on the damage numbers, those could be higher or lower depending on testing. Ideally, the second half of the quest would be completed around level 10.)
This would give Nova a lot of scouting to see if it was safe to go in for a gank, find enemies in the mid-late game (are they bossing?), or set up Precision Strike kills on enemies that barely escape or pesky Abathurs/Murky eggs.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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This is why I've come to unironically appreciate 4chan. Don't get me wrong, that site's a fucking cesspool. But there are no barriers to entry, and posts are completely anonymous, which is something I find refreshing, honestly, because anonymous users will tell you the truth about any given subject. They're not trying to score fake internet points, and they have no reason to lie. Yeah, it's a disgusting place; I'll never pretend it isn't. But when I want to know how people really feel about something -and, again, I mean how they really feel, not how they want people to think they feel- when I want to read actual points and counterpoints on a subject, I frequently search on 4chan.
Also, fuck 4chan.
Instant bm karma
https://clips.twitch.tv/BombasticSmoothSmoothieFloof
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wra
I mean, keep in mind you are learning "how a very specific group of people feel about a subject."
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That is still mainly an issue in the larger/default subs. You get into the smaller ones and it's not as big. I mean, arguably small group (even like this forum) are an echo chamber to something to a degree. Any group/site is going to have an issue where people start to follow one trend and that just gets magnified with more people in it. HOTS is ded game, right?
I honestly prefer reading threads in reddit more than forums because of the way they are nested. Multiple conversions can be had without "talking over" each other like what happen in forums. This one isn't bad, but that's also because there's like what, 15 people that regularly post? So it doesn't get crowded with different threads of discussion, for better or worse anyways. However, you are definitely right on the upvote/downvote part of it. There are some things you can do (like sort by controversial vs top) to try to find "better" discussion, but again, that's still a bigger issue in the larger subs than the smaller ones. The smaller subs just don't have enough comments to truly bury other peoples stuff, even when it's downvoted. Basically main subs are the exact cesspool you are referring to, but if you just remove yourself from them, reddit isn't really that bad of a place imo.
As to the advertiser thing, I think I remember something about that, but I honestly don't remember what came of it. It probably "changed" but just stayed the same really. That's how that works right?
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I mean, the fact that it's anonymous and "doing it for the lols" is enough for many people to lie.
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I have a very low opinion of people, generally, Kime.
In my estimation, most everyone is selfish and awful, and will commit all manner of greedy, disgusting behavior, so long as they think they can, and an opportunity presents itself.
The people on 4chan just don't have any reason to pretend to be anything otherwise. And even though I find 99% of that site to be just, objectively atrocious, I do find that element of it refreshing.
I was an edgy, dumb-ass teenager, man, and I started hanging out on 4chan back in the day because I thought it was funny. I've grown out of that phase of my life, but if there's one takeaway from my experience on that site -one, small piece of wisdom you can take or leave at your leisure- it's that you're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't accurately represent the world we live in; that the people who hang out there aren't your neighbors, your friends, and your family. People are terrible, Kime; they just know how to hide it in polite company.
But point taken.
Anyone who wasn't an edgy dumbass teenager who said and did stupid awful shit is probably lying to themselves tbh!!
We all did that shit. And then that's part of growing up, is growing out of that and learning from that.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Also, QM in one image:
Killing the vikings eight times in a row is really satisfying!
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wra
It's not that anonymous people won't lie, since they will. Depending on the topic they may have all sorts of ulterior motives. You can never innately accept that their word is truthful, but you can hear them out and determine if their argument has merit in its own right. The thing about anonymous forums is that anonymous people don't need to preserve a reputation. This makes it easier for people to accept an alternative viewpoint when they get proven wrong on the topic since they don't need to own up to the bitter pill of admitting that they were wrong in the first place. This means that in many cases the superior arguments will win out on their own merits and the proponents of the false position quietly bow out instead of desperately continuing the fight in order to preserve their own dignity. If someone's argument convinces you that you were wrong, you don't need to admit to your mistake. You simply accept the new position and no one has any leverage to use your old mistaken position against you in the future with ad hominem attacks.
Anonymity is also useful when voicing arguments for unpopular positions. In such cases arguments for the unpopular position can stand on their own merits without the author needing to fear repercussions either from a general mob of people unwilling to listen to arguments or from a biased entity like a church or government that has a vested interest in preserving the popular position. A few historical examples that predate the internet off the top of my head of popular opinions that were later discredited are acceptance of the theory of evolution, the adoption of the Sol centric model of our solar system, and the blame for the Reichstag fire.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
I suppose this is getting abroad of HotS, but uhhh... I don't think that's right personally.
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No one wins.
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wra
I fail to see the benefit of browsing anything that is entirely free from moderation and curation given the prevalence of bots and trolls on the internet. The problem would only be worse, not better.
When you consider opportunity cost, the illusory truth effect, and various other forms of cognitive bias and psychological priming, the idea that you can somehow drink from the fire hose that is the unchecked, unbridled internet and expect to come away meaningfully informed is incredibly suspect. Garbage in, garbage out. This is true not only for computers, but for your mind as well.
This also extends to the realm of public debate, where you cannot expect to have a meaningful discussion if "people" are allowed to spam their opinions and run rampant over the discourse. Consider that even in the case of a dysfunctional Congress, where you have a limited number of participants following a constrained process, the concept of a filibuster still exists and must needs be controlled against. People can and will suck all the oxygen out of a room if they think it will benefit them in some way, consciously or not. At some point, you have to have standards in place to ensure decorum and progress.
I'd also point out that at some point you have to trust the other people involved to be constructive actors. There is no possible way for any single person to properly consume, comprehend, compare, and contrast every piece of information that comes their way, particularly for incredibly specialized fields and disciplines. You trust your doctor to diagnose you for illness. You trust your plumber to fix your pipes properly. These people themselves work on a body of knowledge that has been developed over decades, if not centuries, and cannot possibly know everything even within their own specialties.
If you cannot expect to make a meaningful decision about your own healthcare in the absence of a doctor, why do you feel empowered to assess whether or not some random fuckwad on the internet has something informative to say about literally anything?
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wra
New HotS League!
https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/11958/wisdom-media-heroeshearth-announce-north-american-heroes-of-the-storm-league
Grubby (
Critically, the $$$ information is not available yet. Maybe will next week on the "larger" info dump? Either way though, this sounds like something interesting!
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So, uh...we should be getting a new patch soon right? It's been almost a month now. Any guesses as to what gets changed?
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So you beat me but my post was better.
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