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[Heroes of the Storm] thread: Abathur is a fun and interactive Hero.

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  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Ok, they billed this as a joke, but I'm on board with a lot of it.
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/ptr-patch-notes-april-1-2021/50529

    kime
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Please never nerf the W build.

    9rrtkeqx2vsp.png

    In draft I was like, "Did they not take any ranged DPS?! Oh this is gonna be a good game for me." I wasn't wrong!

    I honestly think they're less likely to nerf W build as it's the only decently performing build. It's not even egregious or anything, just that AA and Q build are underperforming.

    I'd actually expect some general Falstad buffs tbh, mostly his Q stuff and the severely underperforming talents.

    I think part of it right now at least is that there's SO much W build synergy at almost every tier while the other builds kinda... don't.

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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Yeah, looking at HeroesProfile, his numbers don't seem out of line right now. He doesn't have the positioning/stats of a hero that looks like it will get nerfed.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Whelk wrote: »
    Ok, they billed this as a joke, but I'm on board with a lot of it.
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/heroes/t/ptr-patch-notes-april-1-2021/50529
    I know it's just a joke thing but good lord there are a ton of typos and grammatical errors in those notes.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    MNC Dover
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    Please never nerf the W build.

    9rrtkeqx2vsp.png

    In draft I was like, "Did they not take any ranged DPS?! Oh this is gonna be a good game for me." I wasn't wrong!

    I honestly think they're less likely to nerf W build as it's the only decently performing build. It's not even egregious or anything, just that AA and Q build are underperforming.

    I'd actually expect some general Falstad buffs tbh, mostly his Q stuff and the severely underperforming talents.

    I think part of it right now at least is that there's SO much W build synergy at almost every tier while the other builds kinda... don't.

    Well I hope your right, but I do believe W build will get hit by the nerf bat. If only for the fact that W is just a point-and-click "feel's bad" ability at low levels. If they are going to touch it, I'd hope they'd shave off the W damage and apply it to Q. And for the love of god, bump up the Q quest at level 1. Fan had like 200+ stacks in ARAM and it hardly did anything.

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  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    edited April 2
    W is very clearly too strong for how easy it is to play. No one should ever feel like they've been "out-played" by a Hero who literally only had to get within range to click on them once. Falstad is egregiously overpowered currently, and nerfs are warranted.

    milk ducks on
    WhelkA Dabble Of Thelonius
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I don't understand why they nerfed Q so much to begin with. Just make it as strong as it was with the old BOOMerang and nerf the rest of his kit to compensate and call it a day.

    We've already seen why a W-based build is going to be the default unless it does meaningfully less damage than other builds - it is point-and-click, has a larger range than auto attacks, and can't be interrupted. It will always be preferred because it has a far lower skill ceiling and is more guaranteed to land damage. So you pretty much have to make it weaker than the other builds.

    Falstad thrives on being able to maintain range with mobility/slows and weaving through combat. W is literally just hit one button and do the same things you were going to do anyway. The only reason it exists is to shore up his physical:ability damage ratio and to increase his damage floor/burst. There's no reason to make it anything more than that by having all these synergistic talents. They should've tried something more interesting like having a mobility-based build or had W apply its own debuffs via talents.

    milk ducksIvellius
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    W is very clearly too strong for how easy it is to play. No one should ever feel like they've been "out-played" by a Hero who literally only had to get within range to click on them once. Falstad is egregiously overpowered currently, and nerfs are warranted.

    This is why Kael'thas annoys me so much. His W is such a bullshit ability and should be stripped from the game as long as it remains a point-and-click.

    People argue for hero diversity but in his case all that happens is that he gets perma-banned at Gold and below and is mediocre at higher levels of play.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    But is Kael's W overpowered in potato league just because it's a point and click? Or is it overpowered because of how much damage/disruption the spreading does at that level?

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    SmrtnikA Dabble Of TheloniusMNC DoverMunkus Beaver
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited April 2
    milk ducks wrote: »
    W is very clearly too strong for how easy it is to play. No one should ever feel like they've been "out-played" by a Hero who literally only had to get within range to click on them once. Falstad is egregiously overpowered currently, and nerfs are warranted.

    If they end up buffing his base kit at all (Q, namely) they should def tone down W as a precaution, yes. I'm not entirely convinced W build itself is too strong because the numbers/data aren't really showing anything too far beyond what they should be? I could maybe see a few talents getting nerfed a bit though.

    Only thing W build has issues with right now is waveclear, imagine what New W build Falstad would look like with Old Falstad's waveclear. Terrifying.

    However, if they were to just buff Q talents instead, it might be fine, I think.. I'm actually not sure. It's hard to tell because no other build is actually viable at the moment so it's hard to say if it actually needs nerfs or if it's the only thing keeping him relevant.

    W build is on the strong side though, especially with the increased range. Hm.

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
    fortyIvellius
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    But is Kael's W overpowered in potato league just because it's a point and click? Or is it overpowered because of how much damage/disruption the spreading does at that level?

    Both. It's not an either-or. It's the interaction between the two that's the problem. Otherwise auto attacks would just always be OP because they're point-and-click, too.

    milk ducks
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    edited April 2
    Yea the easy comparison is asking if kt trait e is as dominant at lower levels, it punishes clumping just as hard, but requires a skill shot over point and click

    SeGaTai on
    PSN SeGaTai
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    edited April 2
    Dibby wrote: »
    I'm not entirely convinced W build itself is too strong because the numbers/data aren't really showing anything too far beyond what they should be?.

    Falstad's numbers always look underwhelming because he's a Global hero and typically speaking, you're going to lose games on Global heroes if you aren't leveraging their mobility effectively. These types of Heroes are meant to be balanced around the fact that they have global mobility, so their base kits often feel underwhelming because that's appropriate for a hero who can join a teamfight on a moment's notice from across the map. Like Dehaka, for example, feels pretty jank to use most of the time. He's slow without a Bush to stalk through, has big wind-up abilities that are difficult to land, and even once he gets on someone, he isn't really much of a threat on his own. The impact of Dehaka is that he can be clearing waves on another side of the map, then dig in behind your backline and start harassing Mages who don't have kits that can effectively deal with him. He just gets in there and starts causing problems, stalling out enemy DPS and cooldowns. And as soon as the fight's over, he goes back to clearing lanes. That's fine. That feels to me like an appropriately balanced Hero.

    It would not be balanced if Dehaka could dig into the enemy team and kill everyone. It would not be balanced if Dehaka could score a tongue and 100% to 0% someone on his own. But that's current-patch Falstad: he has Global potential; a mobility cooldown; innate movespeed advantage; hybrid damage; decent waveclear; strong merc speed; one of the best (if not the best) teamfight ultimates in the game; and now he can burn almost any Assassin to death by literally just clicking on them with W. It would be obnoxious on any Hero, but it is especially egregious on Falstad, who is meant to be balanced around the fact that he has a Global.

    I like Falstad, guys. Don't get me wrong. It's just obscenely bad game design; you can't have the best Assassin the game also be the one with the Global movement.

    milk ducks on
    Ivellius
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Shining Force I & II were two of my favorite games growing up (still are, honestly). It's a strategy RPG series, where you command an army of individual Hero units against the forces of evil. Great fun. You get Humans and Elves and Dwarves and Dragons and all kinds of shit. You also get Birdmen, and their stats are "average at best". But that's because they can Fly. Sure, they'll never deal as much damage in melee as your Swordsman, or take hits like your Warriors, and they can't ever learn any Magic. But they're balanced out by the fact that they can move unhindered through any type of terrain. Every other unit gets slowed down going over mountain tiles, for example, and cannot pass over water tiles at all, but Birdmen can. And you take them along because there are situations every battle in which you need units who can get around to the enemy flank / backside quickly, or because they offer a ton of other general utility since they're not limited to the same game space everyone else is.

    Current-patch Falstad is like, if the Birdmen were also the best front-line fighters in the game, lol. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 2
    What I'm hearing is Falstad should have a buff to allow him to pass over terrain without using his E....

    MNC Dover on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    But is Kael's W overpowered in potato league just because it's a point and click? Or is it overpowered because of how much damage/disruption the spreading does at that level?

    Both. It's not an either-or. It's the interaction between the two that's the problem. Otherwise auto attacks would just always be OP because they're point-and-click, too.
    That was kind of what I was getting at. I think there's nothing inherently wrong with his W being a point and click. I could imagine a world where Kael is reworked and his W is still a click target but has its numbers retuned and no longer spreads (or maybe it does with an end game talent only). And then he's not so broken in potato league and presumably has some survival/mobility changes that make him more viable at the higher end.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    So who do i petition to rename Bronze to Potato?

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    MMMigIvellius
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    But is Kael's W overpowered in potato league just because it's a point and click? Or is it overpowered because of how much damage/disruption the spreading does at that level?

    Both. It's not an either-or. It's the interaction between the two that's the problem. Otherwise auto attacks would just always be OP because they're point-and-click, too.
    That was kind of what I was getting at. I think there's nothing inherently wrong with his W being a point and click. I could imagine a world where Kael is reworked and his W is still a click target but has its numbers retuned and no longer spreads (or maybe it does with an end game talent only). And then he's not so broken in potato league and presumably has some survival/mobility changes that make him more viable at the higher end.

    I mean, yes...that's kind of what everyone has already been saying. If you're going to make it easy to use, then it shouldn't do so much damage or be so disruptive. Conversely, if something is very hard to pull off, there should probably be some kind of reward for it.

  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 3
    I just checked my SL stats and I'm 18-4 on Falstad in the last 22 days and 26-10 overall w/all heroes. I've been using the W build almost exclusively since the patch drop and absolutely destroying games. I'm mid Silver 3 after being stuck in Bronze 1/Silver 5 for almost 200 games.

    What a difference one patch can make.

    MNC Dover on
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    kime
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 3
    Fuck! Wish I had recorded this match for an awesome play. @MNC Dover was in the match. Not sure if he saw it.

    I'm Qhira. Enemy Deathwing rears up for his cataclysm ult to make a getaway from a lost team fight.

    At the very last instant before he jets, I hit him with my grappling hook.

    Qhira is then dragged across the entire screen along with him. It looks like she's water skiing behind DW, riding a wave of fire. Or airplane grappling hook antics in Just Cause 2.

    Land. Deathwing makes for his fort. I get an auto attack in. I get a Q hit in. He's now out of range of both and is going to reach the fort with a sliver of health left.

    Hit 'R' for final strike. KILL

    (had the Shadow of Colossus music in my head during this)




    (oddly, Qhira's E spin doesn't work on Deathwing because he's immune to CC. But the grappling hook does work?)

    MrBody on
    fortyMNC Dovermilk duckskimeMMMigIvellius
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I don't understand why they nerfed Q so much to begin with.
    Because if they hadn't, then Dibby would have been right. Can't have that happening, though.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    MNC DoverSeGaTaiMMMigDibby
  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    my opinion is clearly biased because I've been playing nothing but Falstad and QM doesn't do mirrors sooooooo :rotate:

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    Falstad's W does close to 3k damage at level 20 with the quest. That's incredibly stupid.

    MNC DoverMMMigmilk ducks
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Why is it that no matter the game, no matter the genre...

    The dual-wielder is always the team asshole.

    ALWAYS

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    2 > 1

    do u even math

    kimemilk ducks
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Back to back losses today in SL with @MrBody. Bad drafts and shitty attitudes from teammates. Just watch the minimap, soak, camp, get obj. Why is this so hard for people? Stop blaming others for every single fucking thing that goes wrong. Look at yourself first. Maybe if you didn't dive in under a Keep, you'd be alive. That's not the healers fault, it's yours.

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    forty
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 4
    Also, stop playing it like LoL/DotA where you solo lane farm all game thinking it's going to turn you into a hyper-carry.

    There are situations where one player can get away with being absent to push lanes and kill forts.

    Those situations are not going to happen in a solo pub game. The entire team strategy needs to revolve around your shit if you're going to do that. Just deciding to do that on your own with zero communication during draft or first couple objectives...is shitty.

    (and FFS sake, Nazeebo of all heroes to play the solo hyper pusher? Dude went 0-2-10. 4 deaths in the first 4 minutes!)

    MVP definitely goes to those two pre-made chuckleheads who decided to 2v5 chase up to between the enemy fort & keep, got killed, then immediately blamed...the healer? da fuk...

    MrBody on
    forty
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Or just "Ron" Registered User regular
    edited April 4
    In DOTA 2 only a few characters are going to lane for anything more than like 9-10 minutes. They certainly aren't moving around as much as HOTS but no one is parked in one place all game unless they want to lose.

    RonaldoTheGypsy on
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    ieq1dqx7vfvl.png

    I'm shocked Falstad isn't a consistent first ban in Silver yet.

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    forty
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Falstad and Kael? They're letting all the tater killers through!

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    MNC Dover
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    My team knows what's up.

    gj438z1uv42q.jpg

    DibbyWhelkMNC Doverkimeforty
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    "Always thank your healer" - Muradin, HotS 2015

    Words to upvote by.

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  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Muradin heals himself so I'm pretty sure they were just self-congratulating.

    MNC DoverkimeSmrtnikmilk ducksMMMigDibby
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 5
    I wasn't even doing a fantastic job of healing that game. But the "4 clutch heals" all took place in the final team fight near their core. They set up some wombo combo (forget what exactly) that was going to wipe our entire team. I hit the Salvation ult just in time to avoid the fatal burst, heal everyone back up, and we wiped them to win the game.

    Losing that fight would have given them a straight shot to our half dead core to win.


    (I assume that Salvation is worthless at higher leagues, since everyone knows to just stun you out of the ult. Plus Lightbomb is flat out broken with proper coordination)

    MrBody on
    MNC Doverkime
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Man Anubarak feels like cheating when they let me just do the bullshit.

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    A Dabble Of Thelonius
  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    I got to play anub with an anduin recently. Light bomb burrow ahoy!

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    Smrtnik
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited April 6
    Also, doh, i meant to say Azmodan. I have no idea why i wrote down Anubarak. I haven't played Mr Beatles in years.

    Team stalls obj, i take a fort and peace. Then join at obj. Repeat.

    Also got 3 kills from someone (zarya i think) running back behind the wall with my xplode upgraded laser next to low HP teammates. That felt satisfying.

    Smrtnik on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Team stalls obj
    First you mistyped Azmodan as Anubarak, then you mistyped "team Leeroys in 4v5 and wipes" as "team stalls obj." Get it together man!

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    A Dabble Of Theloniustyrantula22MMMigSmrtnik
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I absolutely despise it when my team fights when they are seconds away from a talent tier advantage. Like come on people! Can't we be patient for like 10 more seconds?!

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  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I absolutely despise it when my team fights when they are seconds away from a talent tier advantage. Like come on people! Can't we be patient for like 10 more seconds?!

    *keeps spread out soaking lanes, avoiding teamfights while 2 levels up*

    MNC Dover
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