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[Heroes of the Storm] thread: Abathur is a fun and interactive Hero.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    And why do I constantly run into Nazeebo players who only get like 100 stacks all game? Do you even understand how your fucking character works?! Why are you taking Vile at 20 when you’re at 104 stacks?! Why take Naz on a 2-lane map?

    Look, people are bad at the game, I get it. But I think I’ve only had like 2 non-coordinated games where a Naz player just double soaked with me for stacks. We got them over 300 stacks and took the win easy. I try to convince people to do that with me every time and they usually just want to sit mid for no reason.

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    My favorite is when someone stands on a point while the rest of the team gets reamed 3 feet away. Then they die 1v5 and say something like, "Can we fight on the point, please?" Yes, sir, I know you are correct, but if you, the tank, were to be out here watching the enemy team and soaking I could stand on the point. Or I am just poking them, and your 11 deaths as Imperius are not convincing me of your strategic prowess.

    MNC Doverforty
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    In pub games where you have 1 teammate solo lane pushing all game, never on objectives, what percentage of the time would you say it actually works?

  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    3%

    Probably varies depending on hero though. Azmo or Aba can probably get more work done than I would prefer. Zag, too. Xul gets punished too easy. Murky had better be on multiple lanes.

    That does remind me of that Laynor song that was going around about their tendency to only run it down one lane for the time before his rework.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    In pub games where you have 1 teammate solo lane pushing all game, never on objectives, what percentage of the time would you say it actually works?

    I'm an offlane main. That's the position I primarily play, which means my job is to generate XP. For a vast majority of each and every match, that means about 90% of the game, I'm soaking. The other 10% is when an objective spawns, and when we're in a position to contest. If we're down a talent tier going in to an objective, I'm going to soak. If someone dies before it starts and we'd be going in 4v5, I'm going to soak. Literally the instant it becomes clear that we've won said objective, I'm going to soak. Because that's my job. That's the role I fill for my team. Now, going back to the scenarios I listed above, right? I can't control what my teammates do. If they're shitters, that's on them. So, if we're down a talent tier and I'm staying to soak, and they decide to go in 4v5 at a talent disadvantage, they deserve what they get. If someone dies before an objective spawns and I break off to soak, and they want to contest 3v5, then they deserve what they get.

    To answer your question, though, about win % when one of your teammates is soaking all game, the honest answer is pretty damn high. The caveat, though, is that the rest of your team has to actually look at the map and be able to count at a primary school level, lol. Also! Remember that the other team should have an offlane positioned, as well, meaning it isn't 4v5 all game; it's 4v4 all game with two offlanes soaking and rotating in for picks and plays.

    kimeWhelkMNC DoverSmrtnik
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    edited April 7
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    And why do I constantly run into Nazeebo players who only get like 100 stacks all game? Do you even understand how your fucking character works?! Why are you taking Vile at 20 when you’re at 104 stacks?! Why take Naz on a 2-lane map?

    Look, people are bad at the game, I get it. But I think I’ve only had like 2 non-coordinated games where a Naz player just double soaked with me for stacks. We got them over 300 stacks and took the win easy. I try to convince people to do that with me every time and they usually just want to sit mid for no reason.

    I intend to do a forum write-up for Nazeebo sometime. I've been meaning to do it for a while, and just always get busy doing other things. Naz was the first hero in HotS that I really gravitated toward, and even after 5 or 6 years and however many thousands of matches I've played at this point, he remains probably my strongest overall hero. He is a serious comfort pick for me, but because I tend so often now to play Bruisers and Tanks, I don't often get a chance to really play him. I firmly believe that Nazeebo is the hero that every new player should learn, because he's one of the few characters in the HotS roster that actually teaches you how to play the game. His kit is designed in a way that helps you understand how HotS is actually meant to be played: you soak, you generate XP, and as a reward for learning how to do this, you spin wildly out of control at 20. Now, there are two major problems with him, though: the first, is that 99% of people play these jank fucking toad / spider builds that focus on scoring Hero hits instead of Minion stacks (the builds themselves take your focus away from the waves and shift them toward landing skillshots on enemy heroes); and the second is that most high-level play is over before level 20, which is the only point in the game in which Naz really shines.

    Having said that, Nazeebo absolutely thrives in lower-level games, because players at that tier can't close out matches. Every game goes to level 25 and shit. Naz is guaranteed to become a fucking god. You just have to soak and keep your creep score up.

    Every Nazeebo player needs to understand -- if you cannot get to 175 stacks by level 20, then you shouldn't play this hero. Or, you should focus harder on soak until you can get to 175 stacks by 20, because you're actively scuffing your team and trolling, as far as I'm concerned, if you're not able to complete Vile Infection on time. And again, your reward for this is that you effectively become one of the strongest Carries in HotS. You end up with Diablo-level HP, with either an immunity (ice block) or straight-up nasty spell armor (superstition), all the range in the world, and basically infinite damage that auto-tracks enemy heroes (Dead Rush).

    [edit] also, you can take Naz on two-lane maps and get to Vile by 20, but it needs to be that much more of a priority, for sure.

    milk ducks on
    MNC DoverSmrtnik
  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    I'm currently doing a cool thing where I spend one game in Silver 3 then immediately lose the next and drop then win and climb and then lose and drop etc

    The best part is that the losses are all, every one, just the most easily avoidable bullshit. At least you can see it coming a mile away. Snap pick Illiden? Oh yeah he's not going to show for anything. Raynor immediately pings 700 times? Oh yeah he's raging as soon something goes wrong.

    vm8gvf5p7gqi.jpg
    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
    MNC DoverSmrtnikforty
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    And why do I constantly run into Nazeebo players who only get like 100 stacks all game? Do you even understand how your fucking character works?! Why are you taking Vile at 20 when you’re at 104 stacks?! Why take Naz on a 2-lane map?

    Look, people are bad at the game, I get it. But I think I’ve only had like 2 non-coordinated games where a Naz player just double soaked with me for stacks. We got them over 300 stacks and took the win easy. I try to convince people to do that with me every time and they usually just want to sit mid for no reason.

    I intend to do a forum write-up for Nazeebo sometime. I've been meaning to do it for a while, and just always get busy doing other things. Naz was the first hero in HotS that I really gravitated toward, and even after 5 or 6 years and however many thousands of matches I've played at this point, he remains probably my strongest overall hero. He is a serious comfort pick for me, but because I tend so often now to play Bruisers and Tanks, I don't often get a chance to really play him. I firmly believe that Nazeebo is the hero that every new player should learn, because he's one of the few characters in the HotS roster that actually teaches you how to play the game. His kit is designed in a way that helps you understand how HotS is actually meant to be played: you soak, you generate XP, and as a reward for learning how to do this, you spin wildly out of control at 20. Now, there are two major problems with him, though: the first, is that 99% of people play these jank fucking toad / spider builds that focus on scoring Hero hits instead of Minion stacks (the builds themselves take your focus away from the waves and shift them toward landing skillshots on enemy heroes); and the second is that most high-level play is over before level 20, which is the only point in the game in which Naz really shines.

    Having said that, Nazeebo absolutely thrives in lower-level games, because players at that tier can't close out matches. Every game goes to level 25 and shit. Naz is guaranteed to become a fucking god. You just have to soak and keep your creep score up.

    Every Nazeebo player needs to understand -- if you cannot get to 175 stacks by level 20, then you shouldn't play this hero. Or, you should focus harder on soak until you can get to 175 stacks by 20, because you're actively scuffing your team and trolling, as far as I'm concerned, if you're not able to complete Vile Infection on time. And again, your reward for this is that you effectively become one of the strongest Carries in HotS. You end up with Diablo-level HP, with either an immunity (ice block) or straight-up nasty spell armor (superstition), all the range in the world, and basically infinite damage that auto-tracks enemy heroes (Dead Rush).

    [edit] also, you can take Naz on two-lane maps and get to Vile by 20, but it needs to be that much more of a priority, for sure.

    Here I'll do it for you:

    (1) Pray for a 3-lane map in QM or only pick Naz on a 3-lane map
    (2) Identify the two lanes that are closest to each other.
    (3) Throw all your shit on the minions
    (4) Immediately mount up and leave to go to the other lane
    (5) Throw all your shit on the minions
    (6) Ignore everything else that happens in the game and do this until you reach level 20
    (7) If you're ducks, keep doing this even if you already have 250 stacks at level 16 because fuck helping my team win the game I just want stax on stax on stax
    (8) At level 20 walk up to the other team and let them think you are finally not a bot by throwing all your shit at them
    (9) Watch them melt to insane amounts of damage while they try to kill you with your massive health pool
    (10) Go to their core and kill it to win

    kimeWhelkMNC DoverDibbyIvelliusSmrtnikSaerisforty
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Its really that easy.

    WhelkMNC Dovertyrantula22DibbyIvelliusSaeris
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    edited April 7
    (7) If you're ducks, keep doing this even if you already have 250 stacks at level 16 because fuck helping my team win the game I just want stax on stax on stax

    250 stacks by level 16?! You gotta pump those numbers up, those are rookie numbers in this racket.

    MNC Dover on
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  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    I mean, you're very correct, ducks. I was just thinking he was describing that dude who is always "running it down" without any context to the rest of the game.

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 8
    So I tried that Nazeebo MOAR STAKKS strategy.

    Very first objective, someone dies right before it. I keep laning for soaking and STAKKS, tell everyone to give the objective to them. I keep soaking, kill my lane's towers and fort, then get killed when 2 enemy heroes show up to gank me, but I take BOTH of them out with me!

    Some jackass ping spams me screaming "OBJ!", "noob", and "Naz troll". I am 1st place for every single category but healing at that point.

    Let's check my progress and various points of the match.

    s198dclkdokx.jpg

    MrBody on
    milk ducksSaerisWhelkMNC DoverkimeMMMig
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Nazeebo is the ultimate "see you fuckers at 20" hero.

    MNC DoverkimeA Dabble Of Theloniusforty
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 8
    By the end, I had close to 5800 health. More than 1 of our tanks.

    It got me 2 free kills when someone would try to 1v1 me, thinking they were jumping an easy squishy mage, then realizing that my health bar was going down a lot slower than expected until it was too late.

    Cast zombie wall on myself while they're punching me. Zombies spring up with poison ring + dead rush.

    "I'M NOT TRAPPED IN HERE WITH YOU! YOU'RE TRAPPED IN HERE WITH...etc etc"

    MrBody on
    MMMigtyrantula22
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Did you win though?

    kimeMrBodySmrtnikDibbyforty
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    What Naz build do you guys typically run (not including any match specific variables)? I usually go:

    1- Thing of the Deep (spell power for days!)
    4- Big Voodoo (x2 stack bonuses?! Yes please!)
    7- Dead Rush (Q+W on wave and walk away)
    10- Gary
    13- Ice Block (protection from ganks)
    16- Soul Harvest (for when you join team fights)
    20- Vile Infection (obviously)

    The only one I ever waver on is Ring of Poison at 16, but I'm not great at getting folks trapped in the ring.

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  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    What Naz build do you guys typically run (not including any match specific variables)? I usually go:

    1- Thing of the Deep (spell power for days!)
    4- Big Voodoo (x2 stack bonuses?! Yes please!)
    7- Dead Rush (Q+W on wave and walk away)
    10- Gary
    13- Ice Block (protection from ganks)
    16- Soul Harvest (for when you join team fights)
    20- Vile Infection (obviously)

    The only one I ever waver on is Ring of Poison at 16, but I'm not great at getting folks trapped in the ring.

    Pretty much that, except I don't consider Soul Harvest an auto-pick. Depends how often I get caught in close range and if that's a super bad idea against the enemy comp. Ring of Poison if you're good at zombie wall placements. Even spider colony isn't bad because more toads is useful even if you don't spec them and even better it's more zombie walls that are useful even if you're not good at placements since they can at least zone out enemies and still reach them with Dead Rush.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Take Ring of Poison over Soul Harvest. Once you have 16, Naz can absolutely melt structures and mercs. Also pretty much guarantees you'll score a pick on anyone you land the Wall on.

    Also, don't necessarily default to Ice Block at 13. It depends on what their Assassins do: can they get on you with auto-attacks (Illidan, Tracer)? Then yeah, Ice Block. If they can't get on you, though, Superstition grants you Cho'Gall-level HP vs Mages.

    SmrtnikMNC DoverDibbyIvelliusforty
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Been thinking of tweaking choice of early talents.

    lv4

    Big Voodoo- Only on 3 lane maps

    Hexed Crawlers- For 2 lane maps. Effectively increases your health by more than Big Voodoo if you can't rely on 3 lane stack farming.

    Blood Ritual- I would only take this on Infernal Shrine, but man does it rock there. Works on the shrine guardians, giving you crazy healing and mana during objective fights.


    lv7

    Spirit of Arachyr - If you took Hexed Crawlers


    lv1

    Widowmakers- If you took Hexed Crawlers

    Pandemic- If 2 lane map with enemy melee heroes

  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    Big Voodoo is the standard, but there might be times when you realistically will get better value from Blood Ritual. For example, when you're taking constant harass while soaking.

    I would not play anything but Thing of the Deep at level 1, honestly. The other talents improve the damage of single abilities and Thing increases the damage of all your abilities, while also keeping you safe with extra range.

    Remember, you're playing for 20. If you're concerned that your team doesn't have the damage without Toad build, then any other Mage would have been a better pick. And also, that just means you should soak that much harder to reach 20, in my opinion.

    forty
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    If you're concerned that your team doesn't have the damage without Toad build, then any other Mage would have been a better pick.

    Welcome to the QM.
    We've got fun and games.
    Well, ONE game.
    (it's pretty fun though)

    forty
  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    That's fair. Think of it as a low-stakes way to practice, though, in my opinion.

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    I went with the spider build for the Immortals map. Only 2 lanes, and they're super far apart.

    Was very surprising the crazy amount of health I got back whenever spiders hit someone. Of course, actually hitting someone with the spiders can be almost as challenging as the zombie wall.

  • milk ducksmilk ducks Registered User regular
    edited April 9
    That's the other advantage of Thing of the Deep; the extra range makes it that much easier to land the shots you want to land. Also, just as a bit of general advice that's applicable to many heroes, not just Naz: its easiest to land skillshots when you know exactly where someone's going to stand, rather than by trying to predict someone's movements in lane. For example, it's really easy to tell when someone's going in for a Health Globe; simply throw the Spiders onto the Globe so that it lands when they grab it.

    milk ducks on
    Smrtnik
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    That's the other advantage of Thing of the Deep; the extra range makes it that much easier to land the shots you want to land. Also, just as a bit of general advice that's applicable to many heroes, not just Naz: its easiest to land skillshots when you know exactly where someone's going to stand. For example, it's really easy to tell when someone's going in for a Health Globe; simply throw the Spiders onto the Globe so that it lands when they grab it.

    Also, use "On Release" for quick cast. My skillshot hit % increased a lot once I got used to the change.

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Just lost a game in draft when our first three picks were: Falstad (me first pick), then Alarak, KTZ. My last two teammates picked Artanis and Nova because, and I quote the Artanis, "Drafts don't matter. Skill wins the game in Silver. Besides, taking a Tank or Healer is the fast track to losing."

    And of course, Alarak goes 3-9, KTZ 4-7, and Art 3-6. Funny how having no healing or CC makes some heroes impossible to play. Nova went 6-3 and I went 4-4 trying to force plays...which never worked. Oh well, I guess I'm going to run into idiots from time to time.

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    edited April 9
    Drafts don't matter. Skill wins the game in Silver. Besides, taking a Tank or Healer is the fast track to losing."

    j6326i0lu0pw.jpg

    A Dabble Of Thelonius on
    vm8gvf5p7gqi.jpg
    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
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  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Frankly, that's what anyone deserves for going in without ME!

    Ivellius
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    "Skill wins the game in Silver," said the unskilled player.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
    IvelliusMNC Dover
  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    Frankly, that's what anyone deserves for going in without ME!

    Sorry about not playing after hopping into the lobby with you. Just as I did, the wife came downstairs and I made what I thought was a light-hearted joke, but it set off a 20 minute argument about nothing. It was a stressful night for both of us prior to that moment and I should have just kept my head down and mouth closed. As usual, we laughed at the stupidity of the argument after the fact, but I was done with gaming at that point.

    Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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  • UselesswarriorUselesswarrior Registered User regular
    My brother pulled me back into this game.

    I am sad to see that Heroes of the Wang is empty most of the time :(

    Is there another channel people are using these days?

    Hey I made a game, check it out @ http://ifallingrobot.com/. (Or don't, your call)
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    I don't really use the in game channels much anymore to be honest

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I'm in Heroes of the Wang but i don't play as much as i used to, and the channel has been mostly empty for years.

    steam_sig.png
    MNC Doverforty
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Trying to make Auriel work but she just seems crap.

    Q- Can be decent damage source, but leaves her crazy vulnerable while relatively close to enemies
    W- On paper, it can be high number heals using a fast renewing resource. In practice, it loses a ton of efficiency by having to blow it all at once
    E- Highly dependent on map. In a typical lane, it's crazy weak.

    Ults- I'm almost comfortable in saying these are the weakest ults in the game? There are ults that are considered powerful for putting the enemy in stasis and taking them out of the fight. Auriel puts her teammates in stasis in exchange for...?

    Aegis- This might be THE worst ult in the game. It puts one teammate in stasis for 2 seconds, almost as long as Medivh's ult used on enemies. The payoff for taking one of your own out of the fight? A moderate AoE damage spell. On a 60 second cooldown. This is just a worse version of Medivh's protect spell on an ult's cooldown.

    Rez- Compare to Kharazim's rez. Sure, it heals for all health instead of most and doesn't rely on a 3 second window timer, but the drawbacks are so massive. It's double the cooldown, and takes FIVE seconds to go off. The fight could be (and often is) already over in 5 more seconds. Abilities that kill enemies or prevent ally deaths in the first place are so much more useful.


    So what am I missing with Auriel? She seems like the worst healer unless the enemy team is kind enough to constantly clump up and not kill you.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    IMDO she's not the worst healer, but her success is entirely dependent on having a good target for her trait that can put out consistent, high damage.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    The lie of the year.
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  • General_ArmchairGeneral_Armchair Registered User regular
    IMO Auriel really wants to have a tank that wants to get up into melee range of enemies. I just love searing light healing the tank and scorching some enemy at the same time, which will refund a decent chunk of energy. My favorite pair up for Auriel is Diablo. If Diablo can ever flip and wall stun someone, then Auriel usually has an easy follow up wall stun and that's a LOT of time stunned.

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  • MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Ariel with a strong damage partner to crown (typically an AA hero like Valla) can be a nightmare to deal with. I use her Q almost exclusively on minion waves and her E as a back-off tool.

    Taking Energized Cord at 7 can help her get energy faster. And don’t wait to have full energy or for the team to group up. You’ll build energy quick and 4 seconds is really short between heals. At 16, she basically can turn her W heal into an Ancestral Heal. It gets insane and isn’t hard to stack.

    Crystal Aegis is really good. Giving an ally stuck in a CC chain Ice Block can swing team fights. The explosion from Aegis also gives you energy to heal as well. Resurrection is better in uncoordinated QM environments since you can trade deaths and come out ahead. Best to just stop the death though.

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  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited April 11
    Although I forget the instance where her Rez becomes insanely cheap and broken: when you have Cho'Gall on your team. Also her hat too. It honestly seems like an oversight that those things fully work on Cho.

    At the very least, her rez should only bring back Cho at half health.

    MrBody on
    MNC Doverforty
  • InvictusInvictus Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    Although I forget the instance where her Rez becomes insanely cheap and broken: when you have Cho'Gall on your team.

    Cho'Gall is already her best battery because she gets both character's damage as input. Cho'Gall-Auriel is very strong.

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Aegis is also a cleanse that zones, which if the enemies don't respect, is practically guaranteed to fill your energy for a nice chunky heal/sear. Resurrect, as others have mentioned, lets you come out ahead on trades. It can also mitigate ganks to get someone back into a lane and earning exp. One of Auriel's big subtle advantages is that because she doesn't rely on mana, she doesn't need to retreat as often as most healers. She also has far increased self-sustain just by positioning herself close to her heal target, plus can be hard to dive on with her knockback and eventual blind.

    InvictusDibby
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