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[Heroes of the Storm] thread: Don't get excited, Dibby; we're just talking.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Ooh, i thought somehow one of them got the merc camp for free and was super confused.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    I had a fun highlight moment in SL against a Cho'Gal and thought I'd share it. Before I knew it, I decided to make a compilation video of some of my HotS highlights over the past few years.

    https://youtu.be/BWEkbBA-Avk

    Some of the clips are pretty old (Haunted Mines?!), but the wackiness still holds true to this day. Sorry for the bootleg editing/music, that's clearly not my strength, but the videos sounded bland without a little BGM.

    Enjoy!

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I had a fun highlight moment in SL against a Cho'Gal and thought I'd share it. Before I knew it, I decided to make a compilation video of some of my HotS highlights over the past few years.

    Some of the clips are pretty old (Haunted Mines?!), but the wackiness still holds true to this day. Sorry for the bootleg editing/music, that's clearly not my strength, but the videos sounded bland without a little BGM.

    Enjoy!
    Whatever you don't, don't let Ducks see 1:11

    forty on
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    I had a fun highlight moment in SL against a Cho'Gal and thought I'd share it. Before I knew it, I decided to make a compilation video of some of my HotS highlights over the past few years.

    Some of the clips are pretty old (Haunted Mines?!), but the wackiness still holds true to this day. Sorry for the bootleg editing/music, that's clearly not my strength, but the videos sounded bland without a little BGM.

    Enjoy!
    Whatever you don't, don't let Ducks see 1:11

    You got it. @milk ducks shall never know of the exitance of that clip. But I have to ask, why would he not like it?

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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    I watched it. What am I not supposed to see?

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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    The bit at 1:11 where the 20+ Rehgar can't score the pick an actively-fleeing 50% Naz, despite having literally 8 seconds of free DPS time before anyone shows up to help is pretty fucking embarrassing for him, if that's what you're referring to lol.

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    It looked to me like Toad spec.

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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Yeah that tracks lol

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    The bit at 1:11 where the 20+ Rehgar can't score the pick an actively-fleeing 50% Naz, despite having literally 8 seconds of free DPS time before anyone shows up to help is pretty fucking embarrassing for him, if that's what you're referring to lol.

    To be fair, I was a post-20 Naz with a deceptively large health pool (just under 3k as I was backing) being mauled by a Support. I think Rhegar did pretty good all things considered. Of course @traib, @Knight_, and @Kieri with the double healer save was too sweet. Then the single file line of non-stop desperation kills was the stupidity chef's kiss on the top.
    forty wrote: »
    It looked to me like Toad spec.

    While this video contains clips from a long period of time (Haunted Mines and OG fire ring stomp Diablo), I can't think of a time when Toads were ever good enough to full spec into over anything else.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Toads were good for about one patch before being nerfed. Your could chunk buildings from a far with that "frigs grow with each hop" during that patch.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Oh right, Kael'thas is really good in Bronze...

    bmkg6t5edk4x.png

    I should stop trying to being a Tank and just follow-up on their shitty engages. One person working with the Tank is already a huge advantage over the other team.

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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    I heard something about patch being delayed for something bigger soon maybe?????

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited November 2021
    MMMig wrote: »
    Heard a rumor that a new hero is being announced tomorrow.
    CharlieBrownLucyFootball.jpg

    forty on
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I heard a rumor that the coyote was finally gonna catch the roadrunner

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    The HotS team was in the closet making heroes and I saw one of the heroes and the hero looked at me!

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    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited November 2021
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    bmkg6t5edk4x.png

    Your end-of-match screenshots literally amaze me sometimes, lol.

    No matter how I run the numbers through my head, I can't imagine a scenario where your draft wins against theirs. They have literally every advantage in that matchup, and then some.

    milk ducks on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    It's because Lucio is, in fact, in da house. And probably KT noobwipes, as Dover mentioned.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    bmkg6t5edk4x.png

    Your end-of-match screenshots literally amaze me sometimes, lol.

    No matter how I run the numbers through my head, I can't imagine a scenario where your draft wins against theirs. They have literally every advantage in that matchup, and then some.

    In bronze, chaos reigns.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    MNC Dover wrote: »
    bmkg6t5edk4x.png

    Your end-of-match screenshots literally amaze me sometimes, lol.

    No matter how I run the numbers through my head, I can't imagine a scenario where your draft wins against theirs. They have literally every advantage in that matchup, and then some.

    As I recall from that match, our Diablo and Butcher were really bad. Like, Diablo only used his Qs to get into melee range, not wall stun. Once I realized that he was just gonna Q/E every time, I held my E and threw it after he flipped the enemy. My follow up Q -> D+W -> W did most of the heavy lifting. Since it's Bronze, the enemy team grouped up a lot, so I got max Living Bomb value.

    Our Lucio was indeed in the house. He save our team's ass several times, including mine where we both skated out with 5% health. And special award went to Malth who absolutely dominated Artanis in the solo lane (this was Braxis btw). He rotated down a few times to help grab a point or camp, but generally did well all around. And everyone grabbed camps and boss on cooldown.

    At the end of the day though, bronze is gonna bronze.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Malthael is better than Artanis on Braxis (and most maps), so that's a straight up draft advantage there

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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Except Artanis can just fully counter butcher with his entire kit if he wants to

    PSN SeGaTai
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    Except Artanis can just fully counter butcher with his entire kit if he wants to

    Bronze

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Point a click stun > bronze

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited November 2021
    Malthael doesn't overpower Artanis until level 4, when Die Alone comes online, and any time he engages, he feeds him ding-dings. So it's actually kind of a wash. His real advantage is that he takes his offlane mercs faster, creating pressure and rotational potential. Artanis is actually among the more difficult melee matchups for Malthael on Braxis.

    But I'm mostly looking at teamfights, which seem massively in Red's favor here: Malthael can't Last Rights half of their lineup (Mei freezes, Alarak counter-attacks, etc); Butcher can't initiate without getting rooted by Deckard, bounced out by Junkrat, frozen in place by Mei, or just outright blinded by Artanis; and then almost all of Blue is super low-mobility and vulnerable to displacement versus Junkrat / Artanis, so any halfway decent Bomb / Swap forces an engagement in Red's favor.

    It just doesn't add up unless the entire team drops every ball. It isn't like this is some crazy high-end strategy that isn't realistic in Bronze, either; it is literally just "they hard counter your draft" lol.

    milk ducks on
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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    'Counter' isn't a word here. Players don't save their CDs for the right time, or the right hero.

    It's as benny hill as it gets.

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    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    I mean, just looking at the stats, the Butcher clearly didn't fare all that well. It looked like it came down to the rest of the team carrying, and I'm sure there were probably a number of times where random red team players got picked off prior to a team fight.

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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Malthael doesn't overpower Artanis until level 4, when Die Alone comes online, and any time he engages, he feeds him ding-dings. So it's actually kind of a wash. His real advantage is that he takes his offlane mercs faster, creating pressure and rotational potential. Artanis is actually among the more difficult melee matchups for Malthael on Braxxis.

    But I'm mostly looking at teamfights, which seem massively in Red's favor here: Malthael can't Last Rights half of their lineup (Mei freezes, Alarak counter-attacks, etc); Butcher can't initiate without getting rooted by Deckard, bounced out by Junkrat, frozen in place by Mei, or just outright blinded by Artanis; also, and then almost all of Blue is super low-mobility and vulnerable to displacement versus Junkrat / Artanis, so any halfway decent Bomb / Swap forces an engagement in Red's favor.

    It just doesn't add up unless the entire team drops every ball. It isn't like this is some crazy high-end strategy that isn't realistic in Bronze, either; it is literally just "they hard counter your draft" lol.

    Yeah, that sort of stuff is beyond Bronze paygrade. Abilities aren't held for specific counters, unless in rare cases. Players toss out their shit, then aimlessly AA for 6-10 seconds when everything is back up again.

    Also, Alarak took the charging ult, for max HIGHLIGHT MOMENTS value. Artanis took Laser beam for...reasons? Now the Junkrat did have the drop bombs on stun talent, but didn't use his bombs for separation.

    The big thing you're missing here isn't that these heroes were drafted as counters, they just take what they want and hardly ever think about what's good and what's not. The fact that I held my stuff for follow-up on Diablo's awful engages made a bigger difference than anything else. Plus....well, the other team was just bad.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2021
    "artanis hard counters butcher"
    "artanis took space laser"

    These things don't go together

    Munkus Beaver on
    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    space laser kill people, miss circle don't

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    A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    edited November 2021
    Admittedly, dropping laser on a butcher that just chain posted someone is pretty great

    A Dabble Of Thelonius on
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Thanks to @SilverThorn for the Anduin life saving pulls! You should lurk less :)

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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    edited November 2021
    I guess I just don't understand Bronze. It feels like every time I provide any feedback, the immediate and overwhelming response ends up being, "doesn't matter; it's Bronze". I guess my only question at this point is just, I mean, if draft and match-ups don't matter, because nobody is considering them or bothering to hold abilities to counter; if soak doesn't matter because your team is just going to hurl themselves headlong into the enemy 4v5 on cooldown; if coordination is impossible because everyone's so irredeemably toxic; etc ... then what are you supposed to do?

    People get out of Bronze all the time. It isn't impossible, and it certainly can't just be chalked up to folks being randomly chosen by the Claw so that they might ascend to a higher purpose in Silver or whatever.

    It feels like folks have committed themselves to this "Forget it, Jake; it's Chinatown" mentality about the whole thing, and I'm running out of advice at this stage, lol.

    milk ducks on
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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Do people get out of Bronze all the time? Not trolling just curious if that is actually true.

    Smurfs get out of Bronze all the time that just have no business being there and my hunch is they get out not my "playing correctly" but kinda just flexing on a hero or map awareness to the point of carrying.

    If your just playing 4-5 games on the weekends, I don't know how quickly those folks get out of bronze reliably

    PSN SeGaTai
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    Do people get out of Bronze all the time? Not trolling just curious if that is actually true.

    I have no official data to pull from, but the point of a ladder is to be climbed. I find it unlikely that folks do not routinely accomplish that task -- perhaps particularly folks in Bronze, because it only gets harder from there.

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    MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    I'd suspect bronze has a healthy population of long-time residents.

    Now bronze 5 vs bronze 2-3 prob differ enough in their mmrs and winrates where the latter is somewhat less of a fiesta.

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    wra
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    It sounds like what we're repeatedly saying is that Bronze is just complete chaos: nobody can soak; nobody can gank; the builds are all wrong; the drafts make no sense; coordination is next-to-impossible; etc. And I'll just be real, guys -- that's the same shit you deal with in Masters. It never stops. That's just kind of what HotS is.

    The only advice I can realistically give is to just know your shit and keep doing your best. You're going to be dealing with folks, all up and down the ladder, who are super fucking heavy: they can't soak; they can't clear; they can't rotate; they have no situational awareness; they draft like shit; they won't communicate unless it's to talk shit about you; etc.

    So you just have to know how to do all of those things, instead. You have to do everything yourself, and drag your teammates kicking and screaming over the finish line. This is why I ultimately ended up almost exclusively playing Tanks and shit toward the end: the entire attitude ended up being "you fuckers are going to rotate with me or you're not going to have a frontline, so what's it going to be?".

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    I guess I just don't understand Bronze. It feels like every time I provide any feedback, the immediate and overwhelming response ends up being, "doesn't matter; it's Bronze". I guess my only question at this point is just, I mean, if draft and match-ups don't matter, because nobody is considering them or bothering to hold abilities to counter; if soak doesn't matter because your team is just going to hurl themselves headlong into the enemy 4v5 on cooldown; if coordination is impossible because everyone's so irredeemably toxic; etc ... then what are you supposed to do?

    People get out of Bronze all the time. It isn't impossible, and it certainly can't just be chalked up to folks being randomly chosen by the Claw so that they might ascend to a higher purpose in Silver or whatever.

    It feels like folks have committed themselves to this "Forget it, Jake; it's Chinatown" mentality about the whole thing, and I'm running out of advice at this stage, lol.

    You carry in the 20-30% of the games that you can have an effect on the outcome.
    It sounds like what we're repeatedly saying is that Bronze is just complete chaos: nobody can soak; nobody can gank; the builds are all wrong; the drafts make no sense; coordination is next-to-impossible; etc. And I'll just be real, guys -- that's the same shit you deal with in Masters. It never stops. That's just kind of what HotS is.
    I mean, I get what you're saying here. I've picked up league and just got to gold, and I'd say that gold players are at least as good as HotS masters players. But even so, they still do basic mechanics better and have a better fundamental understanding of the game. Will you still get an artanis that takes laser into butcher? Absolutely. Will it happen nearly as frequently in bronze? Never in your life.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    The point of the existence of the ladder is not to climb it. Blizzard neither wants nor expects everyone to be steadily increasing in ranks. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    kime wrote: »
    The point of the existence of the ladder is not to climb it. Blizzard neither wants nor expects everyone to be steadily increasing in ranks. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation.

    u wot mate

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    The point of the existence of the ladder is not to climb it. Blizzard neither wants nor expects everyone to be steadily increasing in ranks. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation.

    u wot mate

    You think Blizzard wants everyone to climb out of Bronze, Silver, Gold, Plat...? Is that the actual goal, that all the player move up?

    No. The goal of the ladder is to get people roughly playing against people at a similar skill level. Your personal goal may be to move up, but the ladder/Blizzard doesn't care to facilitate that.

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