Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
Pretty much Bastion feels like a cult. Everyone expected to just follow blindly, if you disagree you either get reprogrammed or thrown into punishment, and any questions are usually answered with "we understand, but this is fine" and essentially ignored.
And the people who figured it out and fixed it are associated with the bad guys.
I mean, I guess that is the morally grey they wanted?
It seems like there’s no real negative consequences for failing, you just get re-loyalized or whatever and try again. The forsworn’s heresy is not that they chose something bad instead, it’s that they chose at all.
And also yeah, the uncomfortable aspects of kyrian society seem so intentional that I assume we’ll revisit them
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Ok, maxed skinning in about 30 Minutes with the blue things in Bastion. Leatherworking up to 60 and I can craft level 60 gear...I love this profession on release. The Blue hides did go for 6000 early but now the undercutting has begun. Let's see..
When Bastion is working properly, people who are like “Actually, fuck this I’m sitting out.” or earnestly try and fail their training are sent back to Oribos for a do-over with the Arbiter. However, with the anima drought it is impossible to send people back so people are just falling into deeper despair instead of going back for reassignment.
Note that this is not mentioned at all in the questing I have done, and may be fan conjecture. Either way it’s a pretty big writing failure on Blizzard to “reward” noble souls by forcing them to be part of the blue man group and forget all of their memories and have seemingly no recourse beyond siding with Warcraft Satan.
See, I heard that the souls that don't want to go through with their training get sent to the Maw, not back to Oribos.
That makes no sense, seeing as how Vampire Land is built to punish the prideful, which you could argue is the flaw of people refusing to shed their memories. Then I guess failing that you go to Super Hell, which still seems harsh.
I think that with how Oribos is presented to you and then immediately followed up with Bastion you're supposed to get the sense of "there's a real authoritarian Order streak to the afterlife here that IS a problem even if the jailor is a bad skull slaver man who needs to die"
I think that with how Oribos is presented to you and then immediately followed up with Bastion you're supposed to get the sense of "there's a real authoritarian Order streak to the afterlife here that IS a problem even if the jailor is a bad skull slaver man who needs to die"
yes, but these are also the writers that claimed the Sylvanas was written as morally grey.
I think that with how Oribos is presented to you and then immediately followed up with Bastion you're supposed to get the sense of "there's a real authoritarian Order streak to the afterlife here that IS a problem even if the jailor is a bad skull slaver man who needs to die"
yes, but these are also the writers that claimed the Sylvanas was written as morally grey.
The impression I get is also that a certain amount of "resolving the problems in each faction" is reserved for the actual covenant storylines so it might be additionally weird in that you're going to feel like you only solved 25% of the shadowlands' problems by the end
Dyshow am I even using this gunRegistered Userregular
The one point about the whole Kyrian process that gave any kind of justification for it (to me, at least) was a single line shortly after the forsworn first appear.
I can't remember the character's name, but she shouts out something about moving on in totality being necessary so that they can ferry souls while remaining impartial.
If the whole ferrying souls job of the Kyrians is really that important, then yeah that one I can kind of see, maybe? Had they leaned more into that writing-wise they might have had more of a leg to stand on.
But, that doesn't work either, because they don't judge souls at all! The Arbiter does! So I get a very strong feeling that whoever the author is, they either wrote themselves into a corner or have some odd worldviews.
The one point about the whole Kyrian process that gave any kind of justification for it (to me, at least) was a single line shortly after the forsworn first appear.
I can't remember the character's name, but she shouts out something about moving on in totality being necessary so that they can ferry souls while remaining impartial.
If the whole ferrying souls job of the Kyrians is really that important, then yeah that one I can kind of see, maybe? Had they leaned more into that writing-wise they might have had more of a leg to stand on.
But, that doesn't work either, because they don't judge souls at all! The Arbiter does! So I get a very strong feeling that whoever the author is, they either wrote themselves into a corner or have some odd worldviews.
Kyrians have a few roles including ferrying and things like becoming spirit healers. They will likely have contact with a soul long before it makes it to the Arbiter and the impartiality is important because they're expected to not judge (and potentially deny their services) to those who have yet to be properly judged. I feel like the core of that is fine, but yeah there's other problems around the writing.
They ferry without judging, because nothing is technically stopping them from just leaving the souls of those they might judge unworthy just wandering around their home plane forever. They don't want to ascend anyone who'd say "Regdar the Baby-Eater is so evil he doesn't even deserve a shot at redemption". Or more likely, "This soldier died lobbing fireballs at Teldrassil, and I was a night elf. Enjoy the ghost life, orcboy"
I mean the Kyrian want the people that ferry souls to be impartial and not judge based on past emotion or experience. So that, they say, justifies doing what they do to people.
Putting every other ethical objection aside - and boy are there a lot of them - they do this when they have robots.
The Uther cinematic is basically why they need to be impartial; otherwise a soul a kyrian didn’t like could just be tossed into the maw or whatever.
And I mean, it’s not like they turn into automatons; they have lives and relationships and etc as kyrians, they’re just cut off from the ones they had as mortals
Ed: I mean of the aspects of kyrian society, the losing your memory part seems relatively benign
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Maybe it's just not possible for any sort of construct, automaton or enchantment to cross between planes?
I get the sense that the process wasn't nearly so grueling before the anima drought. It might also have been that souls weren't ready to let go, they could just help keep the place running for a couple centuries until they were - but now all the newbies are being pressured directlyt into service because there's nothing for them to do with no anima, and training more ferriers is what the plan calls for in times of drought
It definitely also feels like a criticism of institutional decay via ossification; a refusal to adapt in the face of change is still an abandonment of duty. "The path is flawed" misses the mark by a hair; the path leads off a cliff now that the terrain beneath it has changed.
Haven't played this since. . .PANDARIAN? How difficult would it be to get back into? Also do they still do that "welcome back" stuff?
It's never been easier, tbh. It'll point you towards pretty much everything you need.
And if you're still feeling lost, roll a new character from scratch and it'll introduce everything in order.
Made it to Maldraxxus last night, and the whole civilization there seems to be Bone Orcs. They're not all actually orcs, but the culture is all... "Fight! Fight! Fight! Die with HONOR!" with just some gothed out gear to distinguish them from three or four Orc civilizations we already have.
Kinda boring compared to the Kyrian, which were at least a somewhat novel take on angels/valkyries.
0
Dyshow am I even using this gunRegistered Userregular
Made it to Maldraxxus last night, and the whole civilization there seems to be Bone Orcs. They're not all actually orcs, but the culture is all... "Fight! Fight! Fight! Die with HONOR!" with just some gothed out gear to distinguish them from three or four Orc civilizations we already have.
Kinda boring compared to the Kyrian, which were at least a somewhat novel take on angels/valkyries.
See, the whole angel thing was starting to bore me and then it felt like I got tossed into DOOM.
I am definitely liking this setting a lot more. It' got the feel of someone's goofy-yet-fun homemade D&D campaign to it, what with the house leaders yelling cliche lines at one another.
thinking about it, the other problem with the impartiality thing the kyrian have going on is that they witness the lives and cultures of the souls that pass through their temples.
It's not going to take a brain surgeon to deduce that the orcs are, at best, warmongering idiots. Unless the Kyrian path also strips you of morality and ethics but I'd find that hard to believe given that they have temples dedicated to different virtues.
The one point about the whole Kyrian process that gave any kind of justification for it (to me, at least) was a single line shortly after the forsworn first appear.
I can't remember the character's name, but she shouts out something about moving on in totality being necessary so that they can ferry souls while remaining impartial.
If the whole ferrying souls job of the Kyrians is really that important, then yeah that one I can kind of see, maybe? Had they leaned more into that writing-wise they might have had more of a leg to stand on.
But, that doesn't work either, because they don't judge souls at all! The Arbiter does! So I get a very strong feeling that whoever the author is, they either wrote themselves into a corner or have some odd worldviews.
Or there are multiple authors that don't necessarily talk to each other much. Wouldn't be the first time.
was he shown leaving? no. was there a quest where you could talk to someone and get an offhand line about it? of course
Oh OK, I do recall seeing that a while ago, and then basically no other mention. Also I think Gallywix still showed up on the boat for extra confusion.
Liked Bastion. Mal was ok. I'm about to start Tree land and whatever Snide Politics land is after that. I'd say this is all about the same as Legion and BFA for leveling. I'm just thinking leveling is maybe an outdated concept at this point.
It's hard to get a feel for how much I'm digging the expac as it feels exactly like Legion and BFA in terms of questing/leveling with no new mechanics (Monk especially feels unchanged).
Upside is that's it's been super clean in terms of bugs and lag. Really simple, tight mechanics and great art and sound. Layering or whatever they are calling it now has made me feel like I'm leveling totally solo, which I'm kinda ambivalent about.
Yeah, Windwalker monk has ... really not had anything added. I have a button to hit to summon Xuen, pretty much. Which was a cooldown I didn't really want and talented around in previous expansions, but oh well.
Finished Faeland. I'm kind of pissed that the final cutscene ended up bugging out and NOT PLAYING which led to a big moment happening off-screen after an emotional build up that actually kind of had me tearing up a bit. FFS.
Taking a break for a bit before tackling Aristocrat Vampireland proper.
Lag on launch day was particulary atrocious, so going full on today, though still have to work. Finished Bastion and got started on Maldraxxus. The characters are basically: "Bossy older sister", "wimpy younger brother" and "gruff mechanic guy", with some extras though mechanic guy made me laugh. And it bodes ill that mechanic guy is likely the most interesting character on that place. So will see how that keeps going.
Weapons of Order, Monk Covenant ability. Is, uh, there? As WW is just another CD and as MW (did the dungeon!) is another CD that you press right after channeling Essence Font for back to back Essence Fonts. Likely feels better on Raids. Though I'm going to be contrarian and say that I like Xuen. Come on, is a big Lightning Tiger.
game: you need some sort of artifact that has ties to your world, something that really says "azeroth" to it, to form a link for a portal
me: ah of course my neckla-
game: how about 35% of the lich king's hat
gallywix's support of sylvanas made him not want to stick around as soon as that popped off
Was this shown in game?
was he shown leaving? no. was there a quest where you could talk to someone and get an offhand line about it? of course
Kind of as the Ready for War quests for the alliance show him peacing out after you attack his body double
As it was a ok why did we do this and for what? kind of quest
game: you need some sort of artifact that has ties to your world, something that really says "azeroth" to it, to form a link for a portal
me: ah of course my neckla-
game: how about 35% of the lich king's hat
That was my reaction as well. Also, "why are you just handing this artifact of immense power over to these weird-ass strangers you just met!?"*
* Yes I know our dumbass characters do that like once an expansion now, but to do it right out of the gate just felt worse.
Posts
And the people who figured it out and fixed it are associated with the bad guys.
I mean, I guess that is the morally grey they wanted?
And also yeah, the uncomfortable aspects of kyrian society seem so intentional that I assume we’ll revisit them
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
The final chapter completes when you go to the next zone.
she's literally grey what more do you want!
I can't remember the character's name, but she shouts out something about moving on in totality being necessary so that they can ferry souls while remaining impartial.
If the whole ferrying souls job of the Kyrians is really that important, then yeah that one I can kind of see, maybe? Had they leaned more into that writing-wise they might have had more of a leg to stand on.
But, that doesn't work either, because they don't judge souls at all! The Arbiter does! So I get a very strong feeling that whoever the author is, they either wrote themselves into a corner or have some odd worldviews.
Kyrians have a few roles including ferrying and things like becoming spirit healers. They will likely have contact with a soul long before it makes it to the Arbiter and the impartiality is important because they're expected to not judge (and potentially deny their services) to those who have yet to be properly judged. I feel like the core of that is fine, but yeah there's other problems around the writing.
Putting every other ethical objection aside - and boy are there a lot of them - they do this when they have robots.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
And I mean, it’s not like they turn into automatons; they have lives and relationships and etc as kyrians, they’re just cut off from the ones they had as mortals
Ed: I mean of the aspects of kyrian society, the losing your memory part seems relatively benign
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I get the sense that the process wasn't nearly so grueling before the anima drought. It might also have been that souls weren't ready to let go, they could just help keep the place running for a couple centuries until they were - but now all the newbies are being pressured directlyt into service because there's nothing for them to do with no anima, and training more ferriers is what the plan calls for in times of drought
It definitely also feels like a criticism of institutional decay via ossification; a refusal to adapt in the face of change is still an abandonment of duty. "The path is flawed" misses the mark by a hair; the path leads off a cliff now that the terrain beneath it has changed.
It's never been easier, tbh. It'll point you towards pretty much everything you need.
And if you're still feeling lost, roll a new character from scratch and it'll introduce everything in order.
Kinda boring compared to the Kyrian, which were at least a somewhat novel take on angels/valkyries.
See, the whole angel thing was starting to bore me and then it felt like I got tossed into DOOM.
I am definitely liking this setting a lot more. It' got the feel of someone's goofy-yet-fun homemade D&D campaign to it, what with the house leaders yelling cliche lines at one another.
It's not going to take a brain surgeon to deduce that the orcs are, at best, warmongering idiots. Unless the Kyrian path also strips you of morality and ethics but I'd find that hard to believe given that they have temples dedicated to different virtues.
Or there are multiple authors that don't necessarily talk to each other much. Wouldn't be the first time.
Was this shown in game?
was he shown leaving? no. was there a quest where you could talk to someone and get an offhand line about it? of course
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It's hard to get a feel for how much I'm digging the expac as it feels exactly like Legion and BFA in terms of questing/leveling with no new mechanics (Monk especially feels unchanged).
Upside is that's it's been super clean in terms of bugs and lag. Really simple, tight mechanics and great art and sound. Layering or whatever they are calling it now has made me feel like I'm leveling totally solo, which I'm kinda ambivalent about.
Finished Faeland. I'm kind of pissed that the final cutscene ended up bugging out and NOT PLAYING which led to a big moment happening off-screen after an emotional build up that actually kind of had me tearing up a bit. FFS.
Taking a break for a bit before tackling Aristocrat Vampireland proper.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
[two hours later]
Bolvar: nm I'm here too lol
Weapons of Order, Monk Covenant ability. Is, uh, there? As WW is just another CD and as MW (did the dungeon!) is another CD that you press right after channeling Essence Font for back to back Essence Fonts. Likely feels better on Raids. Though I'm going to be contrarian and say that I like Xuen. Come on, is a big Lightning Tiger.
me: ah of course my neckla-
game: how about 35% of the lich king's hat
Kind of as the Ready for War quests for the alliance show him peacing out after you attack his body double
As it was a ok why did we do this and for what? kind of quest
* Yes I know our dumbass characters do that like once an expansion now, but to do it right out of the gate just felt worse.