[WoW] Shadowlands: Launching November 23rd!

RoeRoe Farming Greater RiftsRegistered User regular
edited October 29 in MMO Extravaganza
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World of Warcraft's next expansion Shadowlands is in development.



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Featuring 4 different Covenants that you align yourself with to level up and gain unique powers, transmogs, mounts, and, unique quests. (Think class halls, but not just for your class).

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Shadowlands will feature a hub city a lot like Dalaran named Oribos, The Undying City. This city will feature a new currency that is obtained in Shadowlands, replacing gold.

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The end dungeon is named Torghast. It is ever changing and inifinite, giving new difficulty through changing switching rules of engagement when fighting monsters. It can also be faced alone.

Shadowlands is releasing this fall [2020].

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Sterica on
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Posts

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Regarding race/class combos:

    It has always been a cultural thing, not a species thing. Gnomes couldn't be priests because their society is less spiritual: it’s not that a gnome priest couldn’t or didn’t exist, but more that you are a playing a typical Gnomeregan Gnome. Cata justified gnome priests as part of the cultural exchange that has gone on between the refugee gnomes living with dwarves for the past years. So Gilneans and Kul Tirans just have nature worship as a deeper part of their society (and in the case of the former, Night Elf druids helping them foster that as a way of coping with their Affliction). Stormwind as a whole worships the light, so they don’t have a large enough druid population to merit it as a class choice.

    Keep in mind that there is also a technical reason, and it’s why druids have the lowest number of races open to them. Every race that gets to be druid needs an additional three or four models for bear, cat, moonkin, and travel(?).

    YL9WnCY.png
    3clipseTryCatcherH3KnucklesShadowenSmrtnik
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    \
    Sterica wrote: »
    Regarding race/class combos:

    It has always been a cultural thing, not a species thing. Gnomes couldn't be priests because their society is less spiritual: it’s not that a gnome priest couldn’t or didn’t exist, but more that you are a playing a typical Gnomeregan Gnome. Cata justified gnome priests as part of the cultural exchange that has gone on between the refugee gnomes living with dwarves for the past years. So Gilneans and Kul Tirans just have nature worship as a deeper part of their society (and in the case of the former, Night Elf druids helping them foster that as a way of coping with their Affliction). Stormwind as a whole worships the light, so they don’t have a large enough druid population to merit it as a class choice.

    Keep in mind that there is also a technical reason, and it’s why druids have the lowest number of races open to them. Every race that gets to be druid needs an additional three or four models for bear, cat, moonkin, and travel(?).

    Also every Paladin race needs a Charger mount (Lightforged Draenei getting the recycled Draenei one because they had to put everything on the Paragon boxes sucks) and every Shaman race needs a totem model. Note how those classes are spread from less races to more races. Druid < Paladin < Shaman is ordered neatly based on how easy is to implement it.

    fortyH3Knuckles
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 28
    And even despite how yes, is more jerking off to "human potential", fact is that Humans, Gnomes (and Dwarves since Cata) are more pragmatic than races like Draenei or Night Elves, which is why they get Warlocks. That's a very big reason why Azeroth managed to beat off Legion invasions instead of getting rolled like the Draenei.

    TryCatcher on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 28
    I've always thought that class/race restrictions are misguided. Just like humans in real life, every race should have its outliers who pursue odd vocations that aren't culturally approved of. Make them outcasts in the story who trained with another race if you want - not that it matters anymore given the single starting zone now though.

    Zek on
    Dac
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    I've always thought that class/race restrictions are misguided. Just like humans in real life, every race should have its outliers who pursue odd vocations that aren't culturally approved of. Make them outcasts in the story who trained with another race if you want - not that it matters anymore given the single starting zone now though.

    That's nice and all, but still won't convince Blizz to get arsed to give Druid forms to Dwarves.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 28
    On another discussion, Preach has a gameplay video of the Ardenwald dungeon:


    3 Bosses, but between the path from the first to the second boss being a puzzle AND that puzzle being also a boss mechanic AND the boss having a cutesy anime/fairy voice "Hey Listen!" that talks a lot while you are getting there, a considerable amount of people are really going to fucking hate that place. So....hopefully you can just DBM/Weakaura it? I think that Blizz will block that, but who knows.

    Place looks breathtakingly amazing though. 11/10 for the art team.

    TryCatcher on
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Race/class restrictions are dumb, yes, and the options are transparently being held back as a bunch of crumbs to be doled out later to spike interest. It's only 'culturally inappropriate' until Blizzard pulls something out of their ass as a justification (see: Goblin Shamans).

    Steam: catseye543
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    Frem
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    Regarding race/class combos:

    It has always been a cultural thing, not a species thing. Gnomes couldn't be priests because their society is less spiritual: it’s not that a gnome priest couldn’t or didn’t exist, but more that you are a playing a typical Gnomeregan Gnome. Cata justified gnome priests as part of the cultural exchange that has gone on between the refugee gnomes living with dwarves for the past years. So Gilneans and Kul Tirans just have nature worship as a deeper part of their society (and in the case of the former, Night Elf druids helping them foster that as a way of coping with their Affliction). Stormwind as a whole worships the light, so they don’t have a large enough druid population to merit it as a class choice.

    Keep in mind that there is also a technical reason, and it’s why druids have the lowest number of races open to them. Every race that gets to be druid needs an additional three or four models for bear, cat, moonkin, and travel(?).

    The idea that the player character is just a "Normal" of whatever race they choose is a flawed concept. There's obviously nothing "Normal" about the player character, since they are the literal chosen of Azeroth. They are the ones who defeated the Burning Legion. They are the ones who defeated the Lich King. They are the ones who defeated Deathwing. They are the ones who fought off multiple Old God threats.

    There's nothing typical about the player character, and to say that a player gnome can't be a druid because gnomes, as a society are not druidic, is a bit silly, since there's nothing normal at all about the player character who is a gnome. If anything, the player character gnome is more likely to be a druid.


    Yes, I realize making extra models for each race is expensive from a game design perspective. It takes many man-hours for artists, modelers, animators, and all of that to make it work. I also don't care. Saying something is "too expensive" is just a lazy excuse for a multi-billion dollar company like ActivisionBlizzard who has enough money that they could bankroll anything they wanted to. Maybe if WoW was made by an indie team of 5 people that would be an acceptable excuse. But it is not an acceptable excuse for Blizzard. Every race should have druids with unique forms. Period. They've got the money to make it happen. There's no "real world" reason why they can't do it, and all of the in-game reasons are just lame lore justifications because they don't wanna.

    FremShadowhopeTurambar
  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    I kinda think they're moving towards that sort of thing, but I think they're only finally realizing if transmog was a big hit then other cosmetic stuff will also keep players engaged.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    I just want the corruption visual effect gone.

    3clipseBigitySmrtnik
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    edited May 29
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Sterica wrote: »
    Regarding race/class combos:

    It has always been a cultural thing, not a species thing. Gnomes couldn't be priests because their society is less spiritual: it’s not that a gnome priest couldn’t or didn’t exist, but more that you are a playing a typical Gnomeregan Gnome. Cata justified gnome priests as part of the cultural exchange that has gone on between the refugee gnomes living with dwarves for the past years. So Gilneans and Kul Tirans just have nature worship as a deeper part of their society (and in the case of the former, Night Elf druids helping them foster that as a way of coping with their Affliction). Stormwind as a whole worships the light, so they don’t have a large enough druid population to merit it as a class choice.

    Keep in mind that there is also a technical reason, and it’s why druids have the lowest number of races open to them. Every race that gets to be druid needs an additional three or four models for bear, cat, moonkin, and travel(?).

    The idea that the player character is just a "Normal" of whatever race they choose is a flawed concept. There's obviously nothing "Normal" about the player character, since they are the literal chosen of Azeroth. They are the ones who defeated the Burning Legion. They are the ones who defeated the Lich King. They are the ones who defeated Deathwing. They are the ones who fought off multiple Old God threats.

    There's nothing typical about the player character, and to say that a player gnome can't be a druid because gnomes, as a society are not druidic, is a bit silly, since there's nothing normal at all about the player character who is a gnome. If anything, the player character gnome is more likely to be a druid.


    Yes, I realize making extra models for each race is expensive from a game design perspective. It takes many man-hours for artists, modelers, animators, and all of that to make it work. I also don't care. Saying something is "too expensive" is just a lazy excuse for a multi-billion dollar company like ActivisionBlizzard who has enough money that they could bankroll anything they wanted to. Maybe if WoW was made by an indie team of 5 people that would be an acceptable excuse. But it is not an acceptable excuse for Blizzard. Every race should have druids with unique forms. Period. They've got the money to make it happen. There's no "real world" reason why they can't do it, and all of the in-game reasons are just lame lore justifications because they don't wanna.

    Eh, I kind of like how our characters start off as fairly unremarkable members of their race, and become exceptional through their achievements along the way, not because they were born/raised different.

    H3Knuckles on
    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
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    Smrtnik
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Please keep in mind that I am explaining Blizzard’s reasoning, not endorsing it.

    When they first started working on WoW, Metzen was seriously considering not allowing night elf women from being druids because the lore had it as a strictly male class. I think it was even Alliance-only until they decided one race and gender was ridiculously limiting.

    YL9WnCY.png
    H3Knuckles3clipseShadowen
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    the whole "all night elf men are druids and have been hibernating for 10000 years" thing was a bad worldbuilding idea from the get-go

    BahamutZERO.gif
    H3KnucklesFremShadowhopeCorp.Shephardadejaan
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    WoW has always been a game that displays a number of developer fetishes. I'd rather the poop guy not be as heavily involved in quest writing, but I don't get everything I ask for.

    TryCatcherShadowhopeShadowenJaysonFour
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Lately I've just been leveling alts and working on class unlocks. I've got a monk, who I mained for a while and I still really like monk as a class. Decided it was high time I got him the Grandmaster title and got him the Legionfall class mount. So over the past week or so I finished that up. Proud owner of Ban'Lu, Companion of the Grandmaster.

    I've also just finished leveling a warlock alt on Wednesday. I've been playing WoW for 16 years, and up until this week my highest warlock was level 23. I've just never really played or been interested in the class. But right now I've totally got the warlock bug. Made a Nightborne warlock to unlock the heritage armor as I leveled her. She's 120 now and I'm totally in love. I am really enjoying this class. I've been working on her class hall and Legionfall mounts too, but that's still a work in progress. I'll probably also try to farm up the book from Isle of Thunder that starts the green fel fire quest.

    I've been considering a change of mains for Shadowlands, and right now warlock has stolen my heart. Obviously, with only a couple weeks of experience as I was leveling her, I still have a lot to learn and experience. I'm planning on running some M+ with her, and once I get her to around 445(ish) and have her neck and essences squared away, I will probably bring her along to some of my guild's Normal difficulty alt runs in Ny'alotha. It will probably take a couple weeks to get her essences squared away and get her to a point where she is actually able to contribute, and not just be a dead weight carry.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 29
    Big news is still the High Elf debacle, in which only thing missing are hair options (which would be silly to hold out in a world with the barbershop) and note how the anti-High Elf opinions were actually just entitled Horde partisans getting mad because the hated, unmanly Alliance is taking their stuff. If you needed another reason to hate the faction divide, add that it promotes toxicity.

    TryCatcher on
    ShadowhopeShadowen
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Taliesin and Evitel posted an interesting lore perspective on the eyes issue. If y'all haven't seen it, I thought it was a pretty interesting take.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 29
    Saw it yesterday, two important things:
    • The difference between High Elves and Blood Elves are, as explained, a political difference first and a visual difference second. Players got very angry about it because Ion basically said that the political difference didn't mattered, which....what? Another idiotic, boneheaded statement by Ion, and watching him having to walk it back is one of the most exciting things about this expansion because that means that there's hope that bad ideas won't stink the place for months until they change them.
    • While Taliesin says that hair styles and hair colors are a big part of High Elf identity and that's important....I think that the bigger reason is that holding them out in a world with the barbershop is just ridiculous and silly.

    TryCatcher on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Elf factions and subfactions are so messy. They need to just say that the Silver Covenant has rejoined the Alliance.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 29
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Elf factions and subfactions are so messy. They need to just say that the Silver Covenant has rejoined the Alliance.

    The Silver Covenant was always part of the Alliance, the excuse was that it didn't had enough numbers to be playable. Since Blizz proved that they don't care that much about the lore, it doesn't matter anymore, but the stretch is that the return of Alleria served as a rallying call for all High Elves and those Blood Elves that didn't want to be on the Horde anymore. Besides historical reasons, I imagine that a lot of Blood Elves are tired of being jerked around just because "nobody wants to admit that Anasterian was wrong on leaving the Alliance on the first place". Again, is a political difference first.

    TryCatcher on
    Shadowhope
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I get why the Elves would've been hesitant to join the Alliance after Garithos was kind of a shit bag to them, but also the alliance is more than just one racist shithog too.

    Them not even being a choice for so long is kind of stupid, plenty of the high elves were like "yo blood elves are fucking nuts dawg"

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    The humans of WC3 were entirely humans of Lordaeron and Kul Tiras.

    Humans of Stormwind were not part of the WC3 story at all.

    Lordaeron doesn't exist anymore as a human nation, and Garithos is dead. The Blood Elves shouldn't really have any beef with Stormwind at all from a story perspective.

    bowenShadowhope
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    The political difference is well established right now, trying to deny the other side or ignoring that maybe Lor'themar and his followers (read: most of the population of Silvermoon) actually like being on the Horde (except back on MoP because Garrosh was insane) is as silly as "the Horde is there for you". Like, years of fighting alongside Horde troops do have an effect.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Yeah, I mean Lorthemar and Lady Liadrin both have good relations with Thrall, Baine, Saurfang, Thalyssra, Telanji, and the other Horde leaders. I'm not saying the Blood Elves should leave the Horde. They have plenty of reason to stay, especially with Sylvanas gone. I'm merely stating that there's not really a lore or story reason why they should be mad at Stormwind.

    Yes, the Elves of Silvermoon were dicked super hard by Arthas, and then dicked super hard again right after that by Garithos. There's no denying the cultural significance of the pain and suffering they went through. I'm just saying that Stormwind, King Varian, King Anduin, and all of that had nothing at all to do with the events of all the times that Silvermoon got dicked.

    bowen
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    If anything Anduin is someone they'd get along with very well considering he was willing to risk the fall of Stormwind on getting justice for the night elves.

    Though the story of him not being able to do more for them I think was the story writer's hamfisted way to work in the night warrior stuff for whatever reason.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I've said this before, but Anduin's story in WoW is my favorite part of the entire 16 year WoW storyline.

    Seeing him grow from the Boy King, to having his father return and getting to see Varian in action (I love Varian a lot too), to his journey of discovery in Pandaria, to where he is now. It has been great. I think Anduin is a very well developed character, and his story arc is probably the best long-term arc in the game. It has taken a long time and it's still going. And I looooove the fact that Anduin is pretty much solely responsible for the continued existence of the Horde.

    For as much as the Sylvanas stuff sucked, the burning of Teldrassil sucked, and all of that, the Old Soldier stuff between Anduin and Saurfang is amazing.

    There's a lot to dislike about BfA. But I'd say they nailed all the Anduin stuff.

    bowenShadowhopeXerink
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited May 29
    The big deal against Anduin is that it feels bad that everybody else has to look bad or get sidelined (like the Horde, or Night Elves) in order to make Anduin look good. Also:
    ...Anduin is pretty much solely responsible for the continued existence of the Horde.

    That's a very unfair take.

    TryCatcher on
    Nobody
  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Initially I don’t think the Blood Elves cared one way or the other about Stormwind, the Alliance as it turned out was spying on them at best, sabotaging at worst before they joined the Horde, but that was a Dwarf and Night Elves.

    After that point I can’t think of any major disagreements that they had prior to the Purge of Dalaran, where Stormwind troops were involved.

  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Nobody wrote: »
    Initially I don’t think the Blood Elves cared one way or the other about Stormwind, the Alliance as it turned out was spying on them at best, sabotaging at worst before they joined the Horde, but that was a Dwarf and Night Elves.

    After that point I can’t think of any major disagreements that they had prior to the Purge of Dalaran, where Stormwind troops were involved.

    Indifference to their continued existence when it stopped being convenient is a pretty big one.

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 29
    I feel like I play this game a fair amount, and I just hit 100/200 Shreds of Insanity today, having started in months ago.

    Whoever is responsible for "tuning" these grinds should never be allowed to touch an MMO again.

    forty on
    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
    ShadowhopeBigityEnc
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    New short story is up, and is about Lor'themar and Thalyssra having a date.

    Neat.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    The big deal against Anduin is that it feels bad that everybody else has to look bad or get sidelined (like the Horde, or Night Elves) in order to make Anduin look good. Also:
    ...Anduin is pretty much solely responsible for the continued existence of the Horde.

    That's a very unfair take.

    I'm speaking specifically of the decision Anduin made to allow Saurfang to escape from Stormwind. That one decision pretty much saved the Horde.

    And it was an act of high treason by the King of Stormwind. But Anduin is a good dude and he did the right thing. And that decision saved the Horde. How is that an unfair take?

  • DacDac Registered User regular
    Elves are the cockroaches of fantasy. No matter where you go, there's going to be an elf subrace.

    So, I guess High Elves are going to join Pandaren as basically being a race that can be identical on either side, since Void Elves can now change their skin tone to be Blood Elf colored.

    It's almost like your race and your choices in the world aren't inextricably tied together - as long as you're hot and white.

    Steam: catseye543
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    well there are black elves now

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
    H3KnucklesShadowen
  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    It’s almost as if the faction divide is bad and needs to be dropped like a bad habit.

    YL9WnCY.png
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  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    One True Horde under Sylvanus.

    9KmX8eN.jpg
    fortyInvectivus
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited May 30
    Of course, the best point to start making moves towards that - like say, removing the cross-faction limitations on communications - would have been this expansion (Shadowlands). Considering all the talk that was made in BFA about moving towards something different and not just the status quo again, it seems like if they were ever going to do anything like that, they'd start laying the groundwork now.

    Since they're not, I'm not gonna hold my breath.

    Dac on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    PSA: MOTHER has a 50 Corruption Twilight Devastation enchant until the Tuesday reset.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    years from now when someone says "what was BFA patch 8.3 like" i'm going to link them this image

    be9ny4fa1m01.png

    63% of my damage, and all of my top three damage sources being random procs that aren't affected by pressing buttons, and autoattacks are a further 8%

    3clipseBigityBasilH3KnucklesSmrtnik
  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    I mean granted, being a dh you barely press buttons as is :biggrin:

    I am trying to gear up my enhancement shaman that has a max 455 ilvl coral and freaking td5 worth of gear which I can only use td3 because my cape isn’t maxed yet. I was doing a cute little m+8 and one pull I popped sundering and td procced. I pulled all aggro and died. Rng tho.

    forty3clipse
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