[Overwatch] Now with more heroes.

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    The comment that sticks out to me is that they understand/realize that certain heroes have a really hard time building ult on 2CP Point Bs and feel really awful to use/play. What they don't seem to do is connect the final dots to realize that it's a problem in 2CP as it exists now, simply without the forced hard reset to ult charge that this mode adds.

  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    honestly, just get rid of 2cp. nobody actually likes it and nobody would complain if it was removed and replaced with more versions of the other map types

    BionicPenguinFencingsax
  • TexiKenTexiKen Vitamin B! And C! Registered User regular
    I like the idea of letting teams trade off on attack, because the worst thing in all of Overwatch QP is having to play defend on 2CP.

    I'm using the classy logic that because Blizzard thinks this isn't a good change, it's actually the best change they've done in years.

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    At this point 2cp feels like a sunk cost fallacy. They thought OW was going to play more like TF2, it didn't turn out that way, but throwing away these crappy maps we made under that assumption, oh no...

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  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    They're very easily converted into exclusively deathmatch maps, so it's not like the resources go to total waste. Feel like it wouldn't be that hard to convert them to hybrid maps either. Still kind of baffles my mind that they did entire resource sets for maps that ended up being only deathmatch or CTF.

  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited July 30
    Patch live and a better explanation/few more details on the attempted revamp of 2CP here.
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/t/overwatch-retail-patch-notes-–-july-30-2020/532575

    E:
    If it went live, it would literally be the only mode you can get a draw in QP, which is kind of funny in itself.

    ArcTangent on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    So complicated... Control is a much more elegant mode based around alternating between offense and defense in a way that actually makes sense. If they want to rework Assault to solve snowballing, they could just reset the match after Point A.

    Pailryder
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited July 30
    From the AMA, an experimental card aimed at double shield meta is due in the next few weeks.

    https://www.reddit.com/comments/i0t53g/_/fzs6qio?context=3

    Zek on
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    How you gonna do an AMA and not hammer them on when we can expect at least some OW2 news or an update or something?

    Bleugh.

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    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    So complicated... Control is a much more elegant mode based around alternating between offense and defense in a way that actually makes sense. If they want to rework Assault to solve snowballing, they could just reset the match after Point A.

    I'm slightly hopeful that Push can just straight up replace 2CP, but I'm not sold on the implementation as it seemed to be, but they could have iterated to something different. I really like Paladin's version though, and it'd work well for Overwatch as is. It starts out as Control/KotH. Objective is capped about 2.5x as fast, and only progress only goes while uncontested, so it pretty much goes to whoever wins two team fights first. Winning the objective gives 1 point and spawns a payload and it changes to Escort for 4 minutes. Team that won the payload can escort it to the defending team's spawn for a second point. If defending team prevents that for 4 minutes, they get a point and stuff resets. First team to 4 points wins, but you can't win while defending (ie you can only win by capping the objective or delivering the payload while at 3 points).

    There are some additional mechanics, both specific to Paladins (bonus credits for capping) and not (accelerated capping when down points as a comeback mechanic), but it's a nice blend of KotH and Payload in a way that the current hybrid maps aren't.

  • TexiKenTexiKen Vitamin B! And C! Registered User regular
    I hate reddit's layout so here's a link to the OW forum where the top post is actually pasting the answers to the questions and broken down by which employee answered what, it's very helpful.

    Not that any of the stuff answered so far is actually decent stuff, but the questions and answers are laid out better.

    What I've seen so far in skimming:
    -a double shield change will be on experiment in a few weeks (lololol)
    -summer games soon (duh)
    -no heroes getting reworked in the foreseeable future
    -they're working on 2CP changes right now, Paris map change has been worked on but paused, and they sort of gave up on Horizon ("it's not on the horizon")
    -they're passionate about crossplay, and that just makes me laugh because the only crossplay that could work is Xbox to Playstation, otherwise we'd just be fodder for PC. And poor Switch users, I don't want to think about them in the crossfire.
    -no changes for credits and using them to buy things if you've already got everything, so nothing like 10-15,000 credits for a gold gun

  • TexiKenTexiKen Vitamin B! And C! Registered User regular
    I dig the assault map changes. There’s still more to tweak like shorter spawn times and I would say the first time a player respawns on defense it should be closer (for instance Hanamura, respawn from the gazebo, and then future deaths respawn in the default room), but it actually works well in at least giving you a chance to attack a point.

    The biggest flaw is the problem with the game in general, dipshits leaving. Too many spots for people to just drop out like assholes, but if they would increase harsher penalties (supposedly they're doing more just for comp coming soon), that would really solidify this change.

  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    if they want 2cp to be more fun, change the spawn distances to be more equal and change the clock timer. I do not like that game mode at all as it is right now. It went to the fifth round and just felt unsatisfying even though our team won.

  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    I'm not convinced it's even possible to fix 2CP. The maps have to favour the defenders or you'd get, like, 7-6 scores every time. However, that means it often feels like smashing your head against a wall as an attacker. If you add more points to capture, the maps would have to be a lot larger and then why not just make it a payload/hybrid map?

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    Steam: MightyPotatoKing/King of the Impossible - Battle.net: PotatoKing#1893
  • OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited August 1
    2CP is never fun and never will be. It's a steamroll or a stallfest too much to feel like fun.

    Blizzard priorities should be - rapid, subtle character changes and a vast meta-mechanical overhaul. We needed 2 or 3 new game types in this game forever ago, and way more maps, (and also a game-wide TTK/healer output adjustment.)

    As per, the modding/creative community has made dozens of each which are of immense quality, but Blizzard works in a glacial time-scale, and in many aspects this 4 year old game absolutely suffers for it.

    Overwatch 2 is, what, 10 months away?

    OmnomnomPancake on
  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Overwatch 2 is, what, 10 months away?

    I don't think they've ever even hinted at a timeframe, so effectively it's infinity months away

    BRIAN BLESSEDChanceFencingsaxUnluckySynthesis
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    2CP is never fun and never will be. It's a steamroll or a stallfest too much to feel like fun.

    Blizzard priorities should be - rapid, subtle character changes and a vast meta-mechanical overhaul. We needed 2 or 3 new game types in this game forever ago, and way more maps, (and also a game-wide TTK/healer output adjustment.)

    As per, the modding/creative community has made dozens of each which are of immense quality, but Blizzard works in a glacial time-scale, and in many aspects this 4 year old game absolutely suffers for it.

    Overwatch 2 is, what, 10 months away?

    They do tons of internal experimentation with stuff like that, new game modes etc. They talked about their TTK experiments in the AMA. The large majority of said experiments end up not being fun enough to put into the live game.

    Everybody has their pet rework request - I'm wishing for all tanks to become offtanks by reworking shields, which is another thing they mentioned they're trying and have not ruled out yet. But I think the reason it's so hard to lock in these changes is because the core of the game is pretty good.

  • OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake OttawaRegistered User regular
    Overwatch 2 is, what, 10 months away?

    I don't think they've ever even hinted at a timeframe, so effectively it's infinity months away

    I'm having vivid flashbacks to the decade it took Starcraft 2 to come out. Cool cool cool.

    The hero drought we're gonna have is painful, but also maybe a great time to standardize/balance heroes in preparation for the 6(?) new characters coming with OW2.

    This Moira attempt was cool. I want that with a lot of people.

    - Make Mei a Tank
    - Try again with Symm
    - Make Orisa less Halt Oriented and BORING
    -Do whatever weird shit to make Moira have more interplay
    -Fix the Stun/loss of control emphasis in many characters.

    etc.

    I have hopes.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    I honestly don't even hate 2CP that much.

    It isn't my favorite and the stall tactics are annoying but I'm pretty ambivalent to it overall.

    Except Horizon which is the worst map in the game.

    jammu
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    that's what i'd really like to see in experimentation. each week pick like 3 characters to just "try things out". It's great the devs try things out internally but we know that's not the best way to do things or they wouldn't have to keep throwing things on ptr and experimental mode and the real game to balance stuff or see how it gets used and abused.
    for example.
    remove the stun from brig and just make it a dash that has a pretty short cooldown. let her close gaps
    remove the total freeze from mei and instead make it a root but still able to shoot/activate abilities
    give one of the healers a cleanse (i really think ashe fire needs a better way to be purged)
    etc. etc.

  • TexiKenTexiKen Vitamin B! And C! Registered User regular
    They did say in the AMA they play the game every day and I can’t help but feel that’s a lie with some of the results we see, or the test group is so used to each other's actions they are always shock pickachu faced when the things they think are balanced are glaring problems on release.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    It's not so easy to gauge balance from internal testing, no matter how good at the game you are, and I bet the PTR/experimental card don't get enough play to get useful balance metrics from it either. Sometimes you just have to do it for real and see how things fall out. Though I do think it was a mistake to do so many buffs at once, and if he was really in such bad shape they should have tried a small buff much sooner.

    Dragkonias
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited August 2
    Yeah simply put no amount of playtesting the dev team does is gonna be equal to thousands of people playing at once.

    Dragkonias on
    KanaFencingsaxLitany
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Besides Brigitte, the balance team are 250 IQ geniuses compared to the Hearthstone team

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  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    brigette still needs whipshot fixed. sure it's fun to send someone flying off the map or into the pit on ilios but its really antithetical to her up close melee nature. instead, change it to an aoe attack that does a very small pushback (no stun).

  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    That would be so much worse. She needs the big bonk to peel

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    jammuemnmnmeChanceKanaHouk the NamebringerBionicPenguinUnluckyBloodySloth
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    That would be so much worse. She needs the big bonk to peel

    Yeah a little pushback isn't going to stop a Mercy rez from 15 yards.

    Last night was utterly exhausted at like 6pm, slept from 8 to 2, played with my brother from 3 to 6 AM - and went 7 and 3.

    My magic hour is when everyone is either wasted or a GM ubermonster.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
  • TexiKenTexiKen Vitamin B! And C! Registered User regular
    Denying a chance of Lifeguard Mercy aside, the Pharah one looks too clunky and weird with picking and choosing skin (you can't show her arms but you show her feet? Ewww). Top Gun Pharah is far superior.


    But the Echo skin is easily her best, surfboard wings is original. I do wonder if they're going to have a Tokyo Lucioball map this year or not.

    Chance
  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    surfboard wings are the only part of that skin that i like, i think

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    surfboard wings are the only part of that skin that i like, i think

    They are specifically what I hate most lol.

    Like what is the point of this fashion? Is it do Echo can do a convincing impression of an innocent pile of beach paraphernalia when asleep, or something?

    Same with lifeguard Pharsh tbh. The way her amor looks like floaties. I get it. No subtext goin' on - I get it lol.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • CoinageCoinage Heaviside LayerRegistered User regular
    Pharah is a lesbian icon, lesbians need sexy stronk skins too, criticizing it is hate speech, and,

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    ChanceBRIAN BLESSED
  • TexiKenTexiKen Vitamin B! And C! Registered User regular
    edited August 3
    The funny thing is if they made Lifeguard Mercy, and then made Pharah floatie Pharah with all these different floaties and vests to make up the armor and snorkels to make her helmet because she doesn't know how to swim, that would have been a nice cute little Pharmercy twist.

    edit: and her gun is a big foam noodle, man Blizzard I'm brilliant you missed the mark.

    TexiKen on
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    Pharah is a lesbian icon, lesbians need sexy stronk skins too, criticizing it is hate speech, and,

    I've enjoyed the reaction among artists on Twitter.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    sanstodoemnmnmeMcMoogle
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I wonder what our other 2 legendaries will be.

    Flip flop Sigma and ThongHog, perhaps.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • TexiKenTexiKen Vitamin B! And C! Registered User regular
    edited August 4
    Here's the other skins, the first three will be weekly challenge rewards:

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    That Tracer one is nice, will replace Posh as her skin. Stupid fucking Bastion continues to get skins despite being a POS, and boo no Bikini Bridget what prudes, literally make it Gidget Bridget with surfboard shield and pool paddle mace.

    TexiKen on
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    OH SHIT NEW TRACER EMOTE

    YUSSSS.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited August 4
    I wonder how they've made the physics for Lucio ball even worse this time.

    ...I say that, but I don't mind playing it much aside from the terrible hit-reg on the ball. It's quick. I have like an 80% win rate because I understand positioning and how to stuff the goalie on goalie-volley exchanges. It just gets boring when you're stuck in goal and know how to actually clear it effectively. ...Except when the hit-reg just decides "nah."

    ArcTangent on
  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Absolutely loving the Bastion and Orisa skins.

    A shame for Bastion that I'll probably never ever replace his Lego skin but what can ya do

    McMoogle
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