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[Overwatch] Overwatch 2 Launching October 4th! New Hero The Junker Queen.

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Posts

  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    support passive is active in fights all the time

    its literally 1 second of not taking damage and even better it refills ur hp which as zen means even if u drop to like 10hp u get to go back to 200 and repeek aggressively eg

    video snip

    because of how zen works especially vs ranged dps the support passive hugely speeds up ur peek repeek time, meaning u can take much more advantage of the discord wallhack when repeeking hitscans/snipers because u regen faster

    plus the sound changes make the balls so FWIPPY

    the BALL's man the BALL'S

    A flanker that can't keep damage on you frequently enough to where you're regenerating meaningful HP in a skirmish with them is not much of a threat. Most flankers are on you for one or two clips before the fight is resolved in either a kill or retreat, unless they're hopelessly inaccurate / one or both of you have geezer reactions.

    I've acknowledged that it definitely does help with resets and get you back in the fight. For your little peek snipe fights and trades, sure. What I'm saying is that the thing that's out of control right now is the unchecked presence of flankers in the backline and that the new passive is largely meaningless in that scenario.

    I think the answer is that they're going to have to modernize the support kits to where they're a lot more dynamic in a way that can extend to self-defense. Brig's short cooldowns are a decent example of this right now. Ana's can stand to be shorter (I think a duration nerf on both her abilities in exchange for shorter cooldowns would be a good direction) for sure, I think they straight up need to add a new ability or passive to Zen in some fashion. Just give supports some additional versatility and playmaking potential to match up with the faster-paced version of the game this is shaping up to be.

    I actually have high hopes that this is a direction they're going to go, I truly don't expect supports to go anywhere close to live in this state.

  • TexiKenTexiKen this is a fancy restaurant! this is a fancy restaurant!Registered User regular
    This might be stupid but in the beta, are you getting even attack/defend turns or something approaching parity? Outside of shitty Switch players, what has really made the game feel dead is how it is constantly "prepare your defenses, prepare your defenses, prepare your defenses, *finally get backfilled into an attack with 10 seconds left* DEFEAT" Backfill attacks don't count. At least with push it's another attack system like KOTH.

  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    This might be stupid but in the beta, are you getting even attack/defend turns or something approaching parity? Outside of shitty Switch players, what has really made the game feel dead is how it is constantly "prepare your defenses, prepare your defenses, prepare your defenses, *finally get backfilled into an attack with 10 seconds left* DEFEAT" Backfill attacks don't count. At least with push it's another attack system like KOTH.

    I haven't noticed any outsized difference either way, seems normal.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited April 30
    yeah idk i havent had a single problem, every flanker matchup is easier than it is in ow1 and they have fewer opportunities to get at u because ur always full hp. tracer even has worse damage. u never get coordinated dive by double tank because theres only one tank, which means u never see fist ball or monke dva

    at first i assumed it was because it wasnt matchmaking properly then i asked the sr of my team mates

    yr2msqrh2up3.png

    so yeah im getting mostly gm+ lobbies so its not that im just farming diamonds

    getting farmed by flankers has always been a fact of life on zen and this is nothing like as bad as playing zen during dive meta. having to kill genji or tracer 1v1 was never something tanks really solved. im happy either way; if they buff my boi ill equip my jorts and head off to the beach and if they dont ill carry on and see how it goes

    EDIT: oh shit ran into somebody aimbotting already. das speedy af

    surrealitycheck on
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  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    It's Genji and Sombra that are the problem right now - I'm actually seeing very few Tracers, though good ones are still a problem pretty much no matter how much they nerf her.

    Sure, it's not as bad as the worst possible meta that made the character completely unplayable but it doesn't mean it's not an unfortunate reality for more than half the supports right now. Good luck doing shit when a Sombra who remotely knows her business hacks you from stealth and one clips you.

    Also it's weird that you're not seeing any Doomfists? Doomfist is probably the 2nd most common tank right now, when people aren't busy taking Orisa out for a joyride.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited April 30
    imo sombra is actually less bad than she was before

    1) her ult doesnt remove shields, it does 40% current hp damage. this means instead of being at 50hp, ur at 120 after emp which is huge
    2) her hack/emp only locks u out for 1s, which means u can... discord her!

    and this means although she is doing 10-15% more damage ur doing 25% more the moment the discord is on, and her hack giving her vision on u through walls is equivalent to discord wallhacks in an engagement. its funny u should mention her because that game they had a sombra and she got bullied



    im seeing tonnes of doomfists, its just that if u see doomfist hes the tank, and hes not in combination with dive tanks (and he cant one shot combo u any more, u get to actually play the game)!

    genji will kill u in about 0.2 seconds if he does a triple right click dash bullshit thing but theres no conceivable change they will give zen short of fixing his weird ass hitbox that will change that, i accept that if he crawls into ur robo-booty ur ded. on the bright side, genji players are forbidden from playing well at all times by law so this doesnt matter

    in general these are normal games with people who dont know whats going on i would be very wary about drawing strong conclusions yet. nothing makes me, as somebody who when i one-tricked zenyatta in a shit meta for him and hit top 500, think "oh hes totally boned". if a hard meta of idk dva/doomfist tracer genji lucio crystallises and zen is unplayable after a month that would be quite diff - but right now it feels like what people are reacting to is that zen has always been a highly immobile swingy character where you really need to simply hit your shots or die in a close range confrontation. if a tracer/genji are on top of me i should be at a disadvantage. something has already gone wrong

    surrealitycheck on
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  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited April 30
    I'm not a support main but they don't feel horrible to me. I think the core problem is the same as it's always been - support is fundamentally not as appealing a category as DPS, yet the game requires just as many people to play it. I think they need to do the same thing to supports that they did to tanks - change them into brawlers that heal more sporadically, like with cooldowns or a limited resource. Mercy can be the main exception who really is just a pure healer since people like that about her.

    Radical idea: 3-1-1, where all characters have out of combat health regen so the team isn't screwed if the single support dies.

    Zek on
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    to have half your ability to aim surrealitycheck...i'm geezer and just not that great but i still have fun!

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited April 30
    Zek wrote: »
    I'm not a support main but they don't feel horrible to me. I think the core problem is the same as it's always been - support is fundamentally not as appealing a category as DPS, yet the game requires just as many people to play it. I think they need to do the same thing to supports that they did to tanks - change them into brawlers that heal more sporadically, like with cooldowns or a limited resource. Mercy can be the main exception who really is just a pure healer since people like that about her.

    Radical idea: 3-1-1, where all characters have out of combat health regen so the team isn't screwed if the single support dies.

    Next let's address this concept of "payloads" and "points". Those aren't very fun for DPS players so...

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
    surrealitycheckKwoaruPhoenix-DBloodySloth
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited April 30
    The general consensus with supports hasn't been that they're terrible just that they're a bit undertuned.

    Sure there is some hyperbole(but it's the internet so when isn't there) but it seems to be a general sentiment shared by low level players, high level ones and the devs. And like when do all three of those groups ever agree on the same thing.

    Dragkonias on
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited April 30
    Zek wrote: »
    I'm not a support main but they don't feel horrible to me. I think the core problem is the same as it's always been - support is fundamentally not as appealing a category as DPS, yet the game requires just as many people to play it. I think they need to do the same thing to supports that they did to tanks - change them into brawlers that heal more sporadically, like with cooldowns or a limited resource. Mercy can be the main exception who really is just a pure healer since people like that about her.

    Radical idea: 3-1-1, where all characters have out of combat health regen so the team isn't screwed if the single support dies.

    Next let's address this concept of "payloads" and "points". Those aren't very fun for DPS players so...

    ok im hearing some good ideas here keep brainstorming
    Pailryder wrote: »
    to have half your ability to aim surrealitycheck...i'm geezer and just not that great but i still have fun!

    dude im 35 and a year ago or so somebody asked me how old i was in vc and i told htem and they said it was "inspiring" and they "hoped they could still be high sr when they were old"

    my bones turned 2 dust...

    surrealitycheck on
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    BionicPenguinDragkoniasKwoaruPailryderFencingsaxBurnageDyvim TvarReynoldsBlackbird SR-71C
  • tyrannustyrannus Registered User regular
    get rekt old man

  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    edited April 30
    The sheer fact that Doomfist is no longer really that capable of near-instantly deleting a 200HP backline support (often with cooldowns to spare) makes him a hundred thousand times less oppressive and easier to deal with than he was before. On paper the characters that were hard counters to killing supports have not been specifically made worse in any kind of oppressive way, but the global increased movement speed of DPS along with the fewer members available to actually peel mean that it's so much easier and faster for them to run roughshod over a backline. The previous team fight structure that was more protective and conducive to point defense practically doesn't exist anymore for the average public match
    But it is clear that that's what the pros wanted so that's what the pros get.
    also i've noticed in addition to killfeed color wonkiness, zens UI is buggy too, half the time i put discord on someone the icon above their head is blue

    I find a lot of the UI changes really quite questionable (the blue discord icon is a really, really infuriating bugbear). I do like that stats for both teams are present so it's nice that they recognise that the fronting of more game analytics might actually make for better players (or at least more introspective ones), but it's baffling that they somehow made small things like team ult status even worse to parse. Again, there is so much fucking real estate on-screen, there is no reason why the average player should have to hold the Tab key just to have a ~~vague~~ idea of when other team members are going to be ready for ult. There are even fewer icons they need to throw up on the screen now. 4 player characters on the top left corner, give us a health/ultimate progress bar or a small percentage key, boom, the game got suddenly that much more intuitive for teammates. This kind of moment-to-moment information being obfuscated behind a keystroke and a popup menu kinda sucks ass for an oversight in an era that they're doing other things like introducing a ping system and better on-screen healing indicators.

    I do agree that the new soundstage for the game is all kinds of dope. 76's gun I think is my favorite improvement of the lot, it sounds a lot less like a plastic toy lmao

    BRIAN BLESSED on
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    The sheer fact that Doomfist is no longer really that capable of near-instantly deleting a 200HP backline support (often with cooldowns to spare) makes him a hundred thousand times less oppressive and easier to deal with than he was before. On paper the characters that were hard counters to killing supports have not been specifically made worse in any kind of oppressive way, but the global increased movement speed of DPS along with the fewer members available to actually peel mean that it's so much easier and faster for them to run roughshod over a backline. The previous team fight structure that was more protective and conducive to point defense practically doesn't exist anymore for the average public match
    But it is clear that that's what the pros wanted so that's what the pros get.

    What?

    Pros didn't ask for 5v5.

  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    edited April 30
    People in general vocally disliked barrier meta and static defense while tanks still had issues being unfun to play, so Blizzard came up with 5v5 and this slew of changes to make fights flow more dynamically. Of course they weren't specifically asking for less players per team, but this was the solution that the devs landed at.
    The new flow of these matches rewards aggression and mobility far more than previous versions of the game (mobile turret Bastion, anyone? lol). It achieves what it set out to do, and in the process leaves a bunch of old playstyles in the dust

    BRIAN BLESSED on
    tyrannus
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    I remember when someone sent me hatemail talking about how we can't all not have a life.

    I replied that I have a full time job and was going to school at the time and maybe had 3-5 hours to play OW a week.

    Ultimate Own.

  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    People in general vocally disliked barrier meta and static defense while tanks still had issues being unfun to play, so Blizzard came up with 5v5 and this slew of changes to make fights flow more dynamically. Of course they weren't specifically asking for less players per team, but this was the solution that the devs landed at.
    The new flow of these matches rewards aggression and mobility far more than previous versions of the game (mobile turret Bastion, anyone? lol). It achieves what it set out to do, and in the process leaves a bunch of old playstyles in the dust

    Blaming that on the pros is a huge stretch. Everyone dislikes shooting barriers.

    Also new Bastion is wonderful. Blizzard turned it into a hero I actually want to play.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Personal Anecdote

    I remember my brother would complain nonstop about how overly team dependent OW1 was and how he couldn't carry.

    Now he's complaining that OW2 is chaotic and how high the damage is.

    Showing that some people don't know what they want and sometimes you should just do what you think is best.

    Kana
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Personal Anecdote

    I remember my brother would complain nonstop about how overly team dependent OW1 was and how he couldn't carry.

    Now he's complaining that OW2 is chaotic and how high the damage is.

    Showing that some people don't know what they want and sometimes you should just do what you think is best.

    i feel like that thought about needing ur team to play well is equivalent to noticing a plot hole in a movie; its a sign that fundamentally u arent enjoying the experience and so ur attention is drawn to things that would not bother u normally. i feel like u see the same thing in league; u get the heavy team complaints before somebody quits lol

    obF2Wuw.png
    Dyvim Tvar
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Yeah my brother is strange, he will complain constantly about games then continue to play them.

    I stop playing games as soon as I'm not having fun so I've never understood people like that.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited April 30
    I think complaining about teammates is a Dunning-Kruger thing where some people just have the personality type that looks elsewhere for excuses rather than focusing on their own mistakes. Of course it's true that sometimes your teammates really do suck, but there's nothing productive about getting upset about that. And largely your teammates are people who play a lot and maintain the same skill rating you have, so you should think twice about concluding that they're trash.

    Zek on
    Kana
  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    I think complaining about teammates is a Dunning-Kruger thing where some people just have the personality type that looks elsewhere for excuses rather than focusing on their own mistakes. Of course it's true that sometimes your teammates really do suck, but there's nothing productive about getting upset about that. And largely your teammates are people who play a lot and maintain the same skill rating you have, so you should think twice about concluding that they're trash.

    In the upside, more info in the scoreboard should reduce some amount of this. Part of the problem with OW1 and blaming teammates was how opaque the information was. Now it will be much easier to tell what the issue is (healing? Damage?) with relevant statistics actually available.

    BRIAN BLESSED
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    edited April 30
    here is an instructional video on dealing with every single change in ow2 as a support

    pls get ur notebooks ready



    every single person here has since been fired

    surrealitycheck on
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    Pailryder
  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    The general consensus with supports hasn't been that they're terrible just that they're a bit undertuned.

    Sure there is some hyperbole(but it's the internet so when isn't there) but it seems to be a general sentiment shared by low level players, high level ones and the devs. And like when do all three of those groups ever agree on the same thing.

    I actually don't even think they're necessarily undertuned, I just think their kits could use a little modernization to keep up with the new tempo of the game and give more of them some playmaking potential. The abilities they do have are all relatively stronger (Nade, discord, damage boost, rez and others are all better than ever now) but like I said earlier, I think many of them just need slightly more dynamic kits - and the ones without mobility could use something that helps them defend themselves a little better. Balance-wise, the role actually isn't all that far off, it's just their kits clearly haven't been give the sequel treatment yet and that feels quite bad at times when the environment is such that your biggest threats were all let off the leash.

    Kana
  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    People in general vocally disliked barrier meta and static defense while tanks still had issues being unfun to play, so Blizzard came up with 5v5 and this slew of changes to make fights flow more dynamically. Of course they weren't specifically asking for less players per team, but this was the solution that the devs landed at.
    The new flow of these matches rewards aggression and mobility far more than previous versions of the game (mobile turret Bastion, anyone? lol). It achieves what it set out to do, and in the process leaves a bunch of old playstyles in the dust

    Blaming that on the pros is a huge stretch. Everyone dislikes shooting barriers.

    Also new Bastion is wonderful. Blizzard turned it into a hero I actually want to play.

    I'd offer that we also have a fair bit of "this is fine, actually" by players on the upper end of the bell curve, while we're now several days into the tech test and the queue populations for Support are still so poor that tank and DPS queues are blown out by several orders of magnitude
    I'm not saying that the changes are inherently bad or anything - in fact I mentioned previously on the other page that I've been generally pretty positive on the reworks as a whole. But my point is that it seems to be a symptom that Blizzard are looking to heavily deprioritize defensive play, and the players who prefer that are a non-zero number who arguably aren't going to be as high up on that bell curve and are going to feel left behind

    CidTheSquid
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    I think one problem is that there are no other game modes to draw away tank/DPS players. Open queue and arcade modes normally give people an alternative to waiting in line for role queue. That means the longer the lines get, the more people are siphoned off into those modes instead, which helps regulate the lines. Right now though, the only option for people who don't enjoy support is to either wait in line or not play.

  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    edited May 2
    By the way, when I say the queue populations are poor, I mean the queues are so utterly dismal that when I selected Flex over the weekend the game would, without fail, instantly launch me into a QP match as a Support player with 0 wait time. When the game said < 2 minute waits for Supports, they basically mean 0-5 seconds. Regardless of what we feel about competitive balance, it speaks to the overall experience that the average joe random percieves of that entire class of characters.

    BRIAN BLESSED on
  • DrowsDrows Registered User regular
    It doesn't help that supports have nearly no interesting changes to play with yet, just some HUD updates, the passive regen, and Brig's bash, as compared with tank/dps having a new character and others with major overhauls.

  • TalithTalith 変態という名の紳士 Miami, FLRegistered User regular
    If you're going to beta test anything it's new characters, reworks, and what being a solo tank is like. That said, flex queue and take top damage as a healer anyways. :star:

    7244qyoka3pp.gif
    Kana
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    it makes sense they are leaving the really big important announcements like junkrat 2 to later to build hype for the launch

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    KwoaruFencingsaxPailryder
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    it makes sense they are leaving the really big important announcements like junkrat 2 to later to build hype for the launch

    I'm hopeful they have finally implemented the much desired fix to junkrat to finally make his grenade explosions heal him

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    PailryderCidTheSquid
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    junkrat is allowed to summon roadhog as a mount to get back into battle after inting faster

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    KwoaruFencingsaxKasynPailryderDyvim TvarCidTheSquidsanstodoBloodySlothBlackbird SR-71C
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Week 1 dev blog: https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23801625/

    TLDR: Acknowledges various issues, balance patch coming this week. They feel supports are reasonably balanced but acknowledge that players don't find them fun enough. They'll be introducing some "new and refreshed abilities" for existing supports, probably for beta phase 2, and introducing open queue to address queue times (for phase 1 I think?).

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 5
    If you missed the beta Twitch event, you have a chance to get drops if you link your YouTube and Battle.net accounts and watch OWL for the next few days:

    Zek on
  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    edited May 5
    Patch notes!

    https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/patch-notes/beta/

    Zen and Brig changes going to be hilarious live, but there's no way those Zen changes can stick. He basically has a repeatable Lucio boop on his quick melee. Seems busted beyond belief?

    Most of the changes seem really good. Concerned that the Sojourn railgun change turns that into a hitscan Hanzo situation, which doesn't seem like a great timeline.

    Wonder how much better Hog feels with the long deserved Whole Hog change.

    Kasyn on
    Pailryder
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    It's a pretty small boop, seems like it just sort of bumps them into the air which hinders their mobility. Not many characters enter melee range when they're targeting Zen anyway so it seems like a weird solution to me.

  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    edited May 5
    first OWL2 games happening in a little bit, sideshow's doing an official costream

    miscellaneousinsanity on
  • KasynKasyn Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    It's a pretty small boop, seems like it just sort of bumps them into the air which hinders their mobility. Not many characters enter melee range when they're targeting Zen anyway so it seems like a weird solution to me.

    Doesn't seem all that small to me?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/danielfenner/status/1522276596274585602?s=21

  • KupiKupi Registered User regular
    Minding that I'm the chairman of the Department of Bad Ideas, "infinite boops" has different ramifications for a character with no mobility abilities whatsoever vs. a character who may move at accelerated speed with indefinite verticality so long as there's a wall handy.

    My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
    Kana
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Kasyn wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    It's a pretty small boop, seems like it just sort of bumps them into the air which hinders their mobility. Not many characters enter melee range when they're targeting Zen anyway so it seems like a weird solution to me.

    Doesn't seem all that small to me?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/danielfenner/status/1522276596274585602?s=21

    Oh that's different than the video I saw, that would be annoying if it has no diminishing returns. Still I wonder how often it will really come in handy.

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