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[Overwatch] Overwatch 2 is Live!

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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    I know everyone is upset about this game right now so please have a free skin all OW1 players will already have to make up for it:




    Please be distracted!

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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    ...If you're subscribed to this other paid thing.

    ztrEPtD.gif
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    The insistence from Blizzard damage control that PvE isn’t completely dead, it’s just not going to have hero trees or talents or really anything they advertised is basically that meme

    Fans: Can we please have PvE?
    Blizzard: We have PvE at home
    PvE at home:

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    ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    It's less than that since they've cast the existing Archives into the pit.

    But I think for a lot of people, PvE is a surrogate for "story content," which has also been cast into the pit.

    ArcTangent on
    ztrEPtD.gif
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    at least when the OW2 launch was shit and full of broken servers and very underwhelming they were smart and tossed a new (meh-ish) Reaper skin to us for 1 real OW2 credit. I was expecting something like that at the minimum in this entire clusterfuck.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    The insistence from Blizzard damage control that PvE isn’t completely dead, it’s just not going to have hero trees or talents or really anything they advertised is basically that meme

    Fans: Can we please have PvE?
    Blizzard: We have PvE at home
    PvE at home:

    I mean from the very start they pitched two things: a campaign and hero missions. As I recall, the talents and leveling up were always associated with hero missions, not the campaign. They're still doing a campaign, just like what they demoed, it's just episodic now. I keep seeing people say "PvE is cancelled" and that's just patently not true.

    Zek on
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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Yeah giving folks an OW1 skin for free in the middle of this shitstorm...probably a bad move.

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Yeah giving folks an OW1 skin for free in the middle of this shitstorm...probably a bad move.

    Hey. Hey guys. Remember Overwatch and how awesome Overwatch is? 'Member that? 'Member Waveracer Dva? Back in 2018?

    Shhhhh. Shhhhhh. Overwatch was awesome once. 'Member that? Pay no attention to what it is. 'Member?

    (I feel like they're starting to forget.)

    Shhhh....

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
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    AegeriAegeri Tiny wee bacteriums Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited May 2023

    Lmao

    But also really sad and depressing. I remember this sort of thing from my days moderating 2k games' forums.

    c3yrpevbwugl.jpg

    New president of Blizzard Jason has my support.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited May 2023
    Aegeri wrote: »

    Lmao

    But also really sad and depressing. I remember this sort of thing from my days moderating 2k games' forums.

    *clipped*

    New president of Blizzard Jason has my support.

    Thank you, Jason. Finally.

    KoopahTroopah on
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I mean... Is there another company in existence that has more spectacularly squandered some of the most internationally beloved IPs of all time?

    -They killed Starcraft and disbanded team 1, likely meaning there will never be another Starcraft RTS. And they haven't tried to move SC into another genre since their spectacular failure that was Starcraft: Ghost back in like 2003 during the original XBox era.

    -They disbanded team 1 so there will likely never be another Warcraft RTS. At least we have two active Warcraft products right now - WoW and Hearthstone, although I would personally argue that I do not consider HS to be a real Warcraft product since it is intentionally non-canonical and ultra silly. WoW is good right now, but also they did seemingly unrepairable damage to the game with Shadowlands and even though Dragonflight is a winning expansion, their concurrent player counts are basically the lowest they have been in forever. WoW is still dying despite being good.

    -In the span of time from 2016 to now, they have basically destroyed the reputation and beloved status of Overwatch. They killed Overwatch 1 and replaced it with a more heavily monetized, greedier version. And now they have failed to deliver on the core promise of what was supposed to be the defining feature of Overwatch 2 what justified the "2" and justified the engine upgrade and re-launch of the game.


    Right now Diablo seems like it's Blizzard's only hope.


    To answer my own question from the top of the post... maybe Konami is the only other company that is in the same league as Blizzard for squandering beloved IP.

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    davidsdurionsdavidsdurions Your Trusty Meatshield Panhandle NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I mean... Is there another company in existence that has more spectacularly squandered some of the most internationally beloved IPs of all time?

    -They killed Starcraft and disbanded team 1, likely meaning there will never be another Starcraft RTS. And they haven't tried to move SC into another genre since their spectacular failure that was Starcraft: Ghost back in like 2003 during the original XBox era.

    -They disbanded team 1 so there will likely never be another Warcraft RTS. At least we have two active Warcraft products right now - WoW and Hearthstone, although I would personally argue that I do not consider HS to be a real Warcraft product since it is intentionally non-canonical and ultra silly. WoW is good right now, but also they did seemingly unrepairable damage to the game with Shadowlands and even though Dragonflight is a winning expansion, their concurrent player counts are basically the lowest they have been in forever. WoW is still dying despite being good.

    -In the span of time from 2016 to now, they have basically destroyed the reputation and beloved status of Overwatch. They killed Overwatch 1 and replaced it with a more heavily monetized, greedier version. And now they have failed to deliver on the core promise of what was supposed to be the defining feature of Overwatch 2 what justified the "2" and justified the engine upgrade and re-launch of the game.


    Right now Diablo seems like it's Blizzard's only hope.


    To answer my own question from the top of the post... maybe Konami is the only other company that is in the same league as Blizzard for squandering beloved IP.

    And they already tried to kill Diablo with the RMAH debacle at launch of 3. Diablo 4 is the hopeful rise from the ashes of the franchise really.

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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    I think I have a permanent chip in my shoulder from when they added a Jim Raynor skin to OW1, that you had to pay real money to obtain (iirc it was a blizzcon ticket) right after announcing that they were no longer going to be producing content for Starcraft 2 and would be pulling back support on the game in general going forward.

    And then they did it again! With another Starcraft skin for OW2 (this time with, I believe, a twitch donation?) It feels like they discovered that the most effective way to exploit that franchise was to bait its fan base into paying for different services.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I definitely do not fault them for disbanding Team 1. It's an unfortunate fact that traditional RTS is basically a dead genre. Microsoft released Age of Empires 4 last year, and it was a really good game, but it sold poorly and was definitely a commercial flop, despite it's quality.

    So it's probably a bad business decision to release a traditional RTS in today's landscape. But that doesn't mean those IPs need to lie dormant or outright abandoned. They could bring any one of their IPs into different genres and find a huge measure of success.

    Dustin Browder and a bunch of other former Team 1 people are working on a new RTS under the new banner of Frost Giant Studios. The game looks really good. But I have this gnawing suspicion that even if the game is good, it's not going to do very well. Gamers as a whole have largely moved on from traditional RTS.

    The only RTS-type games that are doing well right now are survival/horde mode style RTS's such as They Are Billions, and empire/economy building RTS's such as Dune, Surviving Mars, and Farthest Frontier, which are not traditional RTS's in the same vein as Warcraft or Starcraft.

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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    I definitely don't see a straightforward sequel to Starcraft going forward, for the reasons you mentioned, but as a Brood War fan, I definitely look at the love AoE2 has gotten in recent years with an enormous amount of envy. And obviously I think it's an IP that can support more than just a micro-intensive traditional RTS, as well.

    Blizzard just doesn't seem to see anything in its widely beloved and historically important franchises past how it can make an executive more money this quarter.

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    DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I mean... Is there another company in existence that has more spectacularly squandered some of the most internationally beloved IPs of all time?

    -They killed Starcraft and disbanded team 1, likely meaning there will never be another Starcraft RTS. And they haven't tried to move SC into another genre since their spectacular failure that was Starcraft: Ghost back in like 2003 during the original XBox era.

    -They disbanded team 1 so there will likely never be another Warcraft RTS. At least we have two active Warcraft products right now - WoW and Hearthstone, although I would personally argue that I do not consider HS to be a real Warcraft product since it is intentionally non-canonical and ultra silly. WoW is good right now, but also they did seemingly unrepairable damage to the game with Shadowlands and even though Dragonflight is a winning expansion, their concurrent player counts are basically the lowest they have been in forever. WoW is still dying despite being good.

    -In the span of time from 2016 to now, they have basically destroyed the reputation and beloved status of Overwatch. They killed Overwatch 1 and replaced it with a more heavily monetized, greedier version. And now they have failed to deliver on the core promise of what was supposed to be the defining feature of Overwatch 2 what justified the "2" and justified the engine upgrade and re-launch of the game.


    Right now Diablo seems like it's Blizzard's only hope.


    To answer my own question from the top of the post... maybe Konami is the only other company that is in the same league as Blizzard for squandering beloved IP.

    Up until recently I'd have also said EA simply on sheer force of numbers - Westwood alone is a sore spot with no small number of people. But Blizzard really seems to have decided to step up their game with icebergs over ice cubes.

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    GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I mean... Is there another company in existence that has more spectacularly squandered some of the most internationally beloved IPs of all time?

    -They killed Starcraft and disbanded team 1, likely meaning there will never be another Starcraft RTS. And they haven't tried to move SC into another genre since their spectacular failure that was Starcraft: Ghost back in like 2003 during the original XBox era.

    -They disbanded team 1 so there will likely never be another Warcraft RTS. At least we have two active Warcraft products right now - WoW and Hearthstone, although I would personally argue that I do not consider HS to be a real Warcraft product since it is intentionally non-canonical and ultra silly. WoW is good right now, but also they did seemingly unrepairable damage to the game with Shadowlands and even though Dragonflight is a winning expansion, their concurrent player counts are basically the lowest they have been in forever. WoW is still dying despite being good.

    -In the span of time from 2016 to now, they have basically destroyed the reputation and beloved status of Overwatch. They killed Overwatch 1 and replaced it with a more heavily monetized, greedier version. And now they have failed to deliver on the core promise of what was supposed to be the defining feature of Overwatch 2 what justified the "2" and justified the engine upgrade and re-launch of the game.


    Right now Diablo seems like it's Blizzard's only hope.


    To answer my own question from the top of the post... maybe Konami is the only other company that is in the same league as Blizzard for squandering beloved IP.

    There was also the clusterfuck of how they put HotS on life support because it wasn't making "enough" money and the whole eSport thing didn't work out the way they hoped.

    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
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    PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    Westwood...you cut me quick.

    The thing that most/a lot? of these big name development houses forget is that they don't have to release the BIGGEST BEST MOST BADDEST thing. They could certainly have small teams producing smaller scale games with those IPs and turn a decent profit. But it's like the movie industry, it seems, if it isn't 10000bajillion dollars, then it's not worth doing.

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    NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    The last traditional RTS that looked good to me (and wasn’t a remaster) was one that old Westwood alums had worked on via Petroglyph, Grey Goo.

    Still haven’t picked it up yet though.

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    Is it ironic for the machinations of late-stage capitalism to consume and destroy a game whose original guiding ethos was "things can be better than they are?"

    Ed: I don't think it is. S'just sad.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    The game isn't dead until they pull a HotS on it and move all their resources elsewhere. We don't know how their monetization is performing, but I see no evidence of that happening. Queue times are still lightning fast, and I see people with the shop/BP cosmetics all the time. And I'm not sure where else they would move this dev team. I assume their new survival game already has a team.

    More realistic I think is that the game is not as big as it could be, but they simply continue to churn out the seasonal content schedule at this pace, and the controversy blows over. For me that's really all I want from the game. I wouldn't care much if they cancelled the PvE campaign too, if I had my way they would never have even started it.

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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    The game isn't dead until they pull a HotS on it and move all their resources elsewhere. We don't know how their monetization is performing, but I see no evidence of that happening. Queue times are still lightning fast, and I see people with the shop/BP cosmetics all the time. And I'm not sure where else they would move this dev team. I assume their new survival game already has a team.

    More realistic I think is that the game is not as big as it could be, but they simply continue to churn out the seasonal content schedule at this pace, and the controversy blows over. For me that's really all I want from the game. I wouldn't care much if they cancelled the PvE campaign too, if I had my way they would never have even started it.

    That’s the problem, for me anyway, that they are set on this churn at the expense of simple game fixes. I don’t care about PvE. I want them to release more story content, but I don’t need that to be PvE, it could be an animated Netflix show ideally. The thing that’s made me so upset about the announcement the other day was that their character balance fixes were listed as “S7 and beyond” that a simple run the business fix like that is that low on the priority list.

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    The game isn't dead until they pull a HotS on it and move all their resources elsewhere. We don't know how their monetization is performing, but I see no evidence of that happening. Queue times are still lightning fast, and I see people with the shop/BP cosmetics all the time. And I'm not sure where else they would move this dev team. I assume their new survival game already has a team.

    More realistic I think is that the game is not as big as it could be, but they simply continue to churn out the seasonal content schedule at this pace, and the controversy blows over. For me that's really all I want from the game. I wouldn't care much if they cancelled the PvE campaign too, if I had my way they would never have even started it.

    I want fair matchmaking back. I want it bad.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    Zek wrote: »
    The game isn't dead until they pull a HotS on it and move all their resources elsewhere. We don't know how their monetization is performing, but I see no evidence of that happening. Queue times are still lightning fast, and I see people with the shop/BP cosmetics all the time. And I'm not sure where else they would move this dev team. I assume their new survival game already has a team.

    More realistic I think is that the game is not as big as it could be, but they simply continue to churn out the seasonal content schedule at this pace, and the controversy blows over. For me that's really all I want from the game. I wouldn't care much if they cancelled the PvE campaign too, if I had my way they would never have even started it.

    That’s the problem, for me anyway, that they are set on this churn at the expense of simple game fixes. I don’t care about PvE. I want them to release more story content, but I don’t need that to be PvE, it could be an animated Netflix show ideally. The thing that’s made me so upset about the announcement the other day was that their character balance fixes were listed as “S7 and beyond” that a simple run the business fix like that is that low on the priority list.

    I don't think Overwatch has ever done balance changes faster than they're doing them now. GOATS was a thing for ages. The people making PvE content are not the same people making character balance decisions.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Some of them might be. Or rather, some of them might have been.

    Remember... they were trying to get hero talents and a PVE progression system going. That would be something the character team would do, not level and encounter designers.

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    DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    TBF I don't know if you can compare the latter half to OW1 to OW2...mainly cause that's about when they started working on OW2 and OW1 content got pretty slow.

    That said one thing I haven't cared for in OW2 is them outright removing things or nerfing characters into a bad state then leaving them like that and saying they'll get to them eventually.

    Dragkonias on
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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    LostNinja on
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Aaron's developer blog post about cancelling PVE. Some allusions to it being in development since 2016 right after the game launched, and there's a constant sense of never growing the team to accommodate the PVE, even when the game was at its peak in 2017-19, it was splitting the numbers to PVP or PVE. Something just isn't adding up when you look back, even a team of 10 people could have realized hey maybe we should fix goats or not make Ligma so dominant he broke the game more than Bridget 1.0.

    He does attempt to take the bullet for the team by saying he made the decision to cancel PVE so plz no bully Team Four. And a bunch of looking forward with renewed vigor to make OW2 the best it can be, maybe they can get that Bitconnect guy to do a big speech at Blizzcon in November.

    One way to really show renewed focus on PVP would be next Tuesday to have a balance patch to nerf Ball, nerf Junker Queen's broken AF state, etc.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »

    Tycho’s news post succinctly says basically everything I’ve been thinking about OW2 from the beginning

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/overwatch/23952480/director-s-take-reflecting-on-the-future-of-overwatch-2

    Pretty interesting read. For most of OW1's life they had a grand plan to bring in bigger and bigger PvE elements, like they never really let go of Titan. And they stubbornly refused to give up on it even as the game became a big hit because of its PvP alone.

    I think the OW1 content pause was the single biggest mistake they ever made, and they're still paying for it now. The anger directed at them since then is mostly pent up resentment. They must have imagined that they can just put the game on ice and everyone would forgive them with a splashy enough release, but they might have known better if they were communicating at all back then.

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    What makes Tycho's analogy particularly good is that with OW2 we really were like victims of theft. We didn't have the option to go download OW2 or stick with OW1 - OW1 was taken away.

    Fair matchmaking was taken away. Tracer with 240 damage was stolen from all of us.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    No cap I used to jokingly say it, but with Blizzard pulling this shit and my growing feeling OW2 is an inferior product to OW1, I'm like just give me my 40 bucks back for the game you took from me.

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    BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I definitely do not fault them for disbanding Team 1. It's an unfortunate fact that traditional RTS is basically a dead genre. Microsoft released Age of Empires 4 last year, and it was a really good game, but it sold poorly and was definitely a commercial flop, despite it's quality.

    So it's probably a bad business decision to release a traditional RTS in today's landscape. But that doesn't mean those IPs need to lie dormant or outright abandoned. They could bring any one of their IPs into different genres and find a huge measure of success.

    Dustin Browder and a bunch of other former Team 1 people are working on a new RTS under the new banner of Frost Giant Studios. The game looks really good. But I have this gnawing suspicion that even if the game is good, it's not going to do very well. Gamers as a whole have largely moved on from traditional RTS.

    The only RTS-type games that are doing well right now are survival/horde mode style RTS's such as They Are Billions, and empire/economy building RTS's such as Dune, Surviving Mars, and Farthest Frontier, which are not traditional RTS's in the same vein as Warcraft or Starcraft.

    Apropos of nothing, Microsoft are still keenly committed to the RTS genre, having had teams not only produce a Minecraft-branded RTS in the last month, but also yet more Age of Empires 2 content (including new factions and campaigns), of all things
    But yes, certainly the current executive board at ABK wouldn't even give concepts like "singleplayer" or "strategy games" or "PvE" any thought because they're not the things that rake in cash hand over fist

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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Fun fact, I saw this brought up and I had to dig a little to find out where it was, because none of the other outlets seem to be talking about it...figures it would be in the thing that everyone's basing their reactions on.

    In the interview, Keller lets slip they knew even before launch they couldn't deliver. They knew, and they lied through their goddamn teeth.

    From that interview with Gamespot Tycho linked
    But at the same time, what we came away with from that first experience was a new value for developing Overwatch. It was a new value for running the team, namely to always be putting out fresh, exciting, fun, new experiences for our players. As we were running up to launching Overwatch 2, we realized that we could not build that other game. We couldn't save up all of that content over the course of what was looking to be at least the next several years to finish it, and by doing that, pulling more and more resources away from the people that were all playing our game and all the people that would be playing Overwatch 2. So we made a decision later last year that we would focus all of our efforts on the live running game and all of our PvE efforts on this new story arc that we're launching in Season 6.

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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Yeah it’s a huge scam propped up by the EULA

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I'm still playing. Tonight I had the perfect encapsulation of the Tracer experience, in all its highs and lows.

    https://youtu.be/iol-wJhY-Ig

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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    ZekZek Registered User regular


    I forgot they announced this. The challenges are all simply games played, but you'll need to start now because it ends on Monday for some reason. I like the skin though.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Trying to grind for this skin (it is a nice skin) and the quality of games has dropped even from it's low low perch over the past week. It is just rough and boring, even Mystery Heroes has gone full on "I'm picking this side, they will always have JQ, Ligma, and Ramada with two supports or a torb, fuck you."

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    ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Tonight all those 50/50 runs and loss streaks cashed out in going 7 and 1. Played a bunch of support and then Tracer to win the last 2 - an Oasis game where their carry DPS kept swapping to counter me and failing, and a Route 66 defense where they never made the first point. Did some good Tracer-y work.

    Lotta Cardboard Reins on console tonight -.-

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
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