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[Overwatch] Overwatch 2 is Live!

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Posts

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    Nobody wrote: »
    From watching Flats I think tank players (at least at higher levels) are also frustrated because they keep getting forced into rock/paper/scissors where both tanks are constantly swapping based on hard counters.

    I think Blizzard’s plan is for the DPS combo to be Cass and Mei/Sombra. Can’t escape if you’re mag-hindered/frozen/hacked.

    That would just be an awful play experience. Better than Sym/Sombra, but still awful.

    Regarding tanks being frustrated by getting countered, isn’t that kind of the point? The whole game is based on picks and counter picks.

    K but what counters Cassidy? He does sick damage from all but the most extreme ranges.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    No, he’s broken, just bring back flashbang I’ve always hated the mag gernade. I was just referring to the unrelated tank concern.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    LostNinja wrote: »
    No, he’s broken, just bring back flashbang I’ve always hated the mag gernade. I was just referring to the unrelated tank concern.

    The thing is flashbang fucked anyone. Mag 2.0 specifically doesn't fuck Zarya, Hog, Sig, Orisa, Zen, Ana, Mei, etc.

    Ed: I guess the slow effect fucks anyone. But idk I'd be less worried about getting Mag'd on Zen than I am on Tracer. Mag hits you on Tracer and you're dead 19/20 times. He has to whiff two shots.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I don’t understand what their deal with Cassidy is. He had a lane, and that was to shoot Pharah before she fucked your entire team while also being a great mid-range threat with a singular “oh shit” option on high cooldown if somebody closed the distance on him.

    Now he’s basically a scope-less sniper that also has a trump card if Reaper or Tracer or Sombra manage to sneak up on him? Like, what? Why?

    If there’s one aspect of Cassidy that needed a rework it was his ult, which is fucking dogshit, but even that is kinda like oh well he’s got a ton going for him, so it’s fine that he has to work hard to get value from his ult beyond an instant reload.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I miss juking flashbangs...

    Had a game last night where we dominated round 1 (Nepal), half the reds left, backfills went Cassidy Torb and the Cass either just couldn't hit me with the Automatic Tracer-Seeking Missile, or couldn't close the deal when he landed it. There was a moment when he stuck me, I exclaimed "I'm fucked!" and then he just whiffed both shots (he only need one body shot) and I recalled out of the damage. Went like 13 and 0 in round 2, it was nice.

    That entire second round:

    https://youtu.be/179up6BR_L0

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    This fucking game, I don't want a title under my name. I don't care for it and didn't have a title for 4 seasons. Then season 5 showed up and put "Neogun" as my title.

    And the option "no title" is locked away, probably under some battle pass or the watchpoint pack. Of all the fucking stupid things Blizzard has done with this game putting the no title option behind some paywall is fucking shit.

  • OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake Registered User regular
    was stressed for a minute when I saw the pic for the new mythic skin

    'oh shit it's brig, they did a fantasy realm brig, great, I gotta pay the breast milk trolls some money now'

    but the main title swooped in and elven knight tracer winked cheekily and I was mightily relieved

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    was stressed for a minute when I saw the pic for the new mythic skin

    'oh shit it's brig, they did a fantasy realm brig, great, I gotta pay the breast milk trolls some money now'

    but the main title swooped in and elven knight tracer winked cheekily and I was mightily relieved

    Brig already has her fantasy realm skin. There was a time when I loved Overwatch with such purity of heart that I actually gave them money for this skin, which I never use, for Brig, whom I never play*. Just 'cause I thought it looked excellent.

    rfhak0nuydvj.jpg

    *
    Okay I used her once last week to stuff a Ball player who was dominating us, but that's pretty much it.

    Edit: Brig's Van Helsing skin is pretty smexy too.

    Chance on
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake Registered User regular
    I play Brig like a stressed, tank/support merc in Open Queue, and the creepy Opera skin and heinous Swedish Riot Cop skins have kept me satisfied for years.

    The Goat Skin is cool, but reminds folks of how poorly Brig was designed at launch, and I gave Blizz 20$ for the 2020 Rein Skin, which felt like enough for those ghoulish bandits to earn from me.

    Her latest skin, the Space Priest one from last season, was pretty neat, but Mercy had a free variant, so I already got my 2023 Visas Marr kick out of the fuckin' way, thank god.



    Happy that Blizz keeps shitting the bed. I was nearly ready to give 'em maybe 10 to 15$ after nearly a year of slowly unfucking things, but cancelling PvE was just more clown shoes bullshit.

    Maybe OW2 will be forever F2P for me. Shit what would it take to justify giving Blizz money in 2023? 10 new maps? A Halo 2 map pack level of content, yeah, that's it.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    For me it would be a Quick Play button that reads "jump into a match against other players of your skill."

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake Registered User regular
    Tide is completely out on that one.

    OW numbers keep rapidly shrinking combined with needing FAST FAST FAST queues. Overwatch matches are never gonna stop being the Bronze/Gold/Silver/Bronze/Diamond VS Masters/Gold/Bronze/Bronze/Bronze, with whichever tank is better being the major deciding factor.

    Which I really don't mind? I've just completely blacked out the concept of 'score' or 'winning'. I'm here to get 80% Brig Passive Aura up-time, 95% Boop accuracy, and if my sack of potatos loses against their bag of onions, well.... *MASSIVE SHRUG* Emoji


    I swear, getting belligerently drunk one night and grouping with some cheerful randos until I accidentally broke into Masters as old-school/broken Brig really broke any 'give a shit' I have for winning in this game. Like, I accidentally fucking peaked, and I'll just recall that summit fondly. 80th best Brig on Console for a strange and blessed moment.

    That, or the night I accidentally grouped with a mccree aim-botter for two matches, and I pocketed him while he explained in voice chat how much aimbot software costs, and the different types for sale in 2021 - like I viewed the apex of skill and the apex of cheating all within the same few weeks.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Wait aimbots on console? Is that a thing? I know about mice on console but aimbots is a new one.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Wait aimbots on console? Is that a thing? I know about mice on console but aimbots is a new one.

    Yeah they are but it's a lot harder(and more expensive) on them. Why most people don't even bother.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    FFS.

    This is why we can't have nice things.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Played Cassidy last night to test the new mag grenade and holy shit it felt like cheating to harass a Soldier as much as I was for as little effort as it took.

    Their Moira was able to continuously escape/survive it, but she also carried them for the entirety of the match.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    Played Cassidy last night to test the new mag grenade and holy shit it felt like cheating to harass a Soldier as much as I was for as little effort as it took.

    Their Moira was able to continuously escape/survive it, but she also carried them for the entirety of the match.

    I've been explicitly not playing Tracer lately to hopefully adjust my MMR to a reasonable level, and I'll just roll Cassidy or Sombra or Reaper unless the situation demands something else.

    Last night an enemy Tracer was beating the shit out of us on Lijiang until I swapped from Reaper to Cassidy. She stayed away from wherever I was round 1, and we took it but it was close. Beginning of round 2 I landed a stick - the only one I landed on her all game - when she was already at half HP and that was it. She swapped to Ashe and our problems just disappeared.

    I'm reminded of another one of Aaron Keller's statements (see: abject lies).

    "Going forward, what we’ve done is, we’re trying to take some of those really hard rock, paper, scissors interactions out of the game, and replacing them with more player choice."
    -source-

    Way to get rid of that nasty hard counter nonsense, Aaron. Just heaps of bullshit, this game. Heaps on heaps.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    You’re never going to eliminate picks and counter-picks from a game where hero abilities are so wildly diverse. To even try is insane.

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Brace yourselves, never happened with Blizzard before, they delayed Hero Mastery to September three days after announcing it (mid-September delay so far, it will probably just be canceled).

    But they couldn't just put out a tweet or something, they did an edit to the announcement of the PVE pack from June 12th.

    uc9xdf7.png

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Brace yourselves, never happened with Blizzard before, they delayed Hero Mastery to September three days after announcing it (mid-September delay so far, it will probably just be canceled).

    But they couldn't just put out a tweet or something, they did an edit to the announcement of the PVE pack from June 12th.

    uc9xdf7.png

    :open_mouth: !!!

    I'm shocked. Shocked!

    Well, not that shocked.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    So glad Mei’s freeze is back! So…so..glad /s

    Just spent half a match as a tank being slow and frozen. It’s worse than the OW1 version.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23969913/
    So…. stomps. Stomps can happen in all games, and they happen in Overwatch. When a stomp happens, it's easy to blame the matchmaker: the match felt unfair, so it must be because the other team was much better or worse than your own. That might not always be the case, though. We’ve been collecting data and lopsided matches tend to happen at the same rate, regardless of match quality. Even in matches where the skill difference between players is less than one division. Have you ever played a match in Control and gotten clobbered on the first point, only to turn it around on the second and then win the match? During that first point, it's easy to think the match was made incorrectly. The point of this example is that we think there are mechanics in Overwatch that contribute to matches turning out this way. For instance, the way ult charge is generated in the game is a snowball mechanic, and it can be very hard to stop that momentum. When a team wins a fight, they typically generate more ult, but they also get to dictate positioning for the next fight, they get to stick together without the same chance of getting staggered as the loser. In the earlier example of Control, the reset between rounds negates many of these mechanics and puts each team on an even playing field for the next round. We are continually working on our matchmaker, but the biggest gains for perceived competitiveness in Overwatch lies in looking at our core mechanics and game modes and making adjustments here. More to come on this topic.

    I've always felt that the stompiness people perceive in OW2 came from the switch to 5v5. It's a format that results in more definitive outcomes to team fights, often stemming from a singular mistake by one player. IMO open queue needs to become 6v6 for players who prefer that format. I'm glad they're finally talking about ult charge snowballing at least, that's something they should have revisited a while ago after the game became stompier.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    The open queue tank balancing isn't what it needs to be to make it like OW1 again. You'd have to (1) really tune each tank down to an OW1 level and (2) remove the tank, DPS and most of all the support passive.

    It would be more work than this spreadsheet says would be profitable for Bobby Kotick & His Ballsack Band.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    "Is our matchmaking bad? Our study shows that, no, we're great and it's all your fault."

    uyvfOQy.png
  • PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    it's the kids who are wrong.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I remember Jeff talking about their balancing talks and how there were basically two schools of thought, one which was like a sledgehammer and the other which was like a screwdriver, and they strongly favored the screwdriver approach

    Looks like the sledgehammers won out in the end

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Devs: It won't be bad if we just... turn this up a little bit.

    Brig's rally now lets shield bash stun again.

    Devs: Mayyybe just... a touch more.

    Moira and Reaper can no longer escape snares (but Sym still can).

    Devs: Mayyybe...

    Mei's Freeze Spray 3.0.

    Devs: Hmmm...

    Magnetic Grenade 2.0.

    Devs: ...are we sure that's enough, though?

    (2 months later.)

    Devs: Look, we didn't burn it, you just believe it's been ruined. We have data.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    I do agree with them to some extent.

    You will simply have games where the other team beats you and badly. It isn't always matchmaking either.

    Hell it even happens in professional sports.

    It's more a question of how often it happens.

    As far as balance goes sometimes I think sledgehammers can be fun. But it can't just be for nerfs it has to be for buffs too.

    But given the glacial rate the OW team takes to implement big changes not sure if they could do that.

    Dragkonias on
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    At least now we know why it seems like they aren’t fixing it. They’ve plugged their ears and decide to “nu-uh” the entire community.

    They made the switch to 5v5 which makes stomps more likely based on a single mismatch.

    They created push maps which make a stomp feel so so much worse and more punishing while you wait the 10 minutes for the clock to run out.

    But nope, we just don’t understand what a stomp is.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    We're really proud of what Overwatch 2 has evolved in to, or at least the folks who manage the revenue streams for the in-game shop say things are looking  very good.

    Please tune in next week, when we'll gaslight you into believing that Shatter, Rampage and Annihilation are not insanely overpowered, and are just as good as Self Destruct, Mines and Grav.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • DragkoniasDragkonias That Guy Who Does Stuff You Know, There. Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Like I know people think you're just dogging OW2 when you say this but I liked 2CP so much more than Push it isn't funny.

    I know people hated the stalemates but the maps were cool. Also...they could be pretty chill compared to the other maps.

    And now instead of stalemates we just get long matches where one side spends 5 minutes losing.

    Dragkonias on
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I miss Hanamura

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I miss Volsyaka and Hanamura, definitely. I actually liked Horizon.

    But I also like Push.

    And I'm happy I'll never see Anubis again. It's a great conundrum.

    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Like I know people think you're just dogging OW2 when you say this but I liked 2CP so much more than Push it isn't funny.

    I know people hated the stalemates but the maps were cool. Also...they could be pretty chill compared to the other maps.

    And now instead of stalemates we just get long matches where one side spends 5 minutes losing.

    This is 100% how I feel. I also rarely play comp due to the toxicity so never really had the stalemate concern. I really miss those maps.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    At least now we know why it seems like they aren’t fixing it. They’ve plugged their ears and decide to “nu-uh” the entire community.

    They made the switch to 5v5 which makes stomps more likely based on a single mismatch.

    They created push maps which make a stomp feel so so much worse and more punishing while you wait the 10 minutes for the clock to run out.

    But nope, we just don’t understand what a stomp is.

    Complaining about Push length and steamrolls at once seems contradictory. If a Push match is actually a stomp it shouldn't run anywhere near as long as 10 minutes. Push goes longer when teams are more equally matched.

    Not that I think this undermines the stupidity of their comments on the matchmaker. Ultimately it doesn't even matter if matches have perfect 50/50 win ratios if players feel like they're 75/25. This sort of thing is entirely about what your end users perceive to be happening. (Which does ultimately undermine the nitpicky point I started with.)

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • ArcTangentArcTangent Registered User regular
    .
    LostNinja wrote: »
    At least now we know why it seems like they aren’t fixing it. They’ve plugged their ears and decide to “nu-uh” the entire community.

    They made the switch to 5v5 which makes stomps more likely based on a single mismatch.

    They created push maps which make a stomp feel so so much worse and more punishing while you wait the 10 minutes for the clock to run out.

    But nope, we just don’t understand what a stomp is.

    Complaining about Push length and steamrolls at once seems contradictory. If a Push match is actually a stomp it shouldn't run anywhere near as long as 10 minutes. Push goes longer when teams are more equally matched.

    Not that I think this undermines the stupidity of their comments on the matchmaker. Ultimately it doesn't even matter if matches have perfect 50/50 win ratios if players feel like they're 75/25. This sort of thing is entirely about what your end users perceive to be happening. (Which does ultimately undermine the nitpicky point I started with.)

    It can be both, same as 2CP issues. It can be both really hard to close out because of the defense having such a spawn advantage, but also absolutely hopeless for the defense to actually come back and win once progress gets that far.

    ztrEPtD.gif
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    LostNinja wrote: »
    At least now we know why it seems like they aren’t fixing it. They’ve plugged their ears and decide to “nu-uh” the entire community.

    They made the switch to 5v5 which makes stomps more likely based on a single mismatch.

    They created push maps which make a stomp feel so so much worse and more punishing while you wait the 10 minutes for the clock to run out.

    But nope, we just don’t understand what a stomp is.

    Complaining about Push length and steamrolls at once seems contradictory. If a Push match is actually a stomp it shouldn't run anywhere near as long as 10 minutes. Push goes longer when teams are more equally matched.

    Not that I think this undermines the stupidity of their comments on the matchmaker. Ultimately it doesn't even matter if matches have perfect 50/50 win ratios if players feel like they're 75/25. This sort of thing is entirely about what your end users perceive to be happening. (Which does ultimately undermine the nitpicky point I started with.)

    Disagree, a match that times out while one team has been knocking on the door for 5 minutes and just can’t finish since it’s 10 feet from the spawn while the other’s slab hasn’t moved from the start is still a stomp.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited June 2023
    LostNinja wrote: »
    At least now we know why it seems like they aren’t fixing it. They’ve plugged their ears and decide to “nu-uh” the entire community.

    They made the switch to 5v5 which makes stomps more likely based on a single mismatch.

    They created push maps which make a stomp feel so so much worse and more punishing while you wait the 10 minutes for the clock to run out.

    But nope, we just don’t understand what a stomp is.

    Complaining about Push length and steamrolls at once seems contradictory. If a Push match is actually a stomp it shouldn't run anywhere near as long as 10 minutes. Push goes longer when teams are more equally matched.

    Not that I think this undermines the stupidity of their comments on the matchmaker. Ultimately it doesn't even matter if matches have perfect 50/50 win ratios if players feel like they're 75/25. This sort of thing is entirely about what your end users perceive to be happening. (Which does ultimately undermine the nitpicky point I started with.)

    I don't think they're saying that the community is wrong to perceive it, or that it isn't happening. They're saying it's not because of the matchmaker. That's why they're talking about game design changes to address the problem.

    Zek on
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    LostNinja wrote: »
    At least now we know why it seems like they aren’t fixing it. They’ve plugged their ears and decide to “nu-uh” the entire community.

    They made the switch to 5v5 which makes stomps more likely based on a single mismatch.

    They created push maps which make a stomp feel so so much worse and more punishing while you wait the 10 minutes for the clock to run out.

    But nope, we just don’t understand what a stomp is.

    Complaining about Push length and steamrolls at once seems contradictory. If a Push match is actually a stomp it shouldn't run anywhere near as long as 10 minutes. Push goes longer when teams are more equally matched.

    Not that I think this undermines the stupidity of their comments on the matchmaker. Ultimately it doesn't even matter if matches have perfect 50/50 win ratios if players feel like they're 75/25. This sort of thing is entirely about what your end users perceive to be happening. (Which does ultimately undermine the nitpicky point I started with.)

    I don't think they're saying that the community is wrong to perceive it, or that it isn't happening. They're saying it's not because of the matchmaker. That's why they're talking about game design changes to address the problem.

    I agree that’s what they are saying, but they said it in the worst possible way (one in which most people will tune out after the first couple sentences which come off as smarmy - and they don’t have to goodwill needed to read it any other way), and without taking ownership of how their decisions led to it being worse.

  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2023
    Zek wrote: »
    https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23969913/
    So…. stomps. Stomps can happen in all games, and they happen in Overwatch. When a stomp happens, it's easy to blame the matchmaker: the match felt unfair, so it must be because the other team was much better or worse than your own. That might not always be the case, though. We’ve been collecting data and lopsided matches tend to happen at the same rate, regardless of match quality. Even in matches where the skill difference between players is less than one division. Have you ever played a match in Control and gotten clobbered on the first point, only to turn it around on the second and then win the match? During that first point, it's easy to think the match was made incorrectly. The point of this example is that we think there are mechanics in Overwatch that contribute to matches turning out this way. For instance, the way ult charge is generated in the game is a snowball mechanic, and it can be very hard to stop that momentum. When a team wins a fight, they typically generate more ult, but they also get to dictate positioning for the next fight, they get to stick together without the same chance of getting staggered as the loser. In the earlier example of Control, the reset between rounds negates many of these mechanics and puts each team on an even playing field for the next round. We are continually working on our matchmaker, but the biggest gains for perceived competitiveness in Overwatch lies in looking at our core mechanics and game modes and making adjustments here. More to come on this topic.

    I've always felt that the stompiness people perceive in OW2 came from the switch to 5v5. It's a format that results in more definitive outcomes to team fights, often stemming from a singular mistake by one player. IMO open queue needs to become 6v6 for players who prefer that format. I'm glad they're finally talking about ult charge snowballing at least, that's something they should have revisited a while ago after the game became stompier.

    This would be horrible for the health of the game. It would split the playerbase even further and make queue times/balanced matches even worse than they already are, and also the devs would have to choose between a) do they ignore 6v6 hero balance in which case that mode is never going to feel good and they're opening themselves up to constant complaints from that group, or b) do they balance both modes (which would have to be balanced significantly differently with a second tank in the mix) and now their team is being spread even thinner than it already is.

    Like, this idea sounds great at first blush - gives everyone what they want! - but the way it would play out in reality would make basically nobody happy.

    At best they could maybe make it an arcade mode along with mystery heroes and total mayhem, and let people just go in and fuck around with no expectation of a serious or balanced experience.

    Houk the Namebringer on
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    https://overwatch.blizzard.com/en-us/news/23969913/
    So…. stomps. Stomps can happen in all games, and they happen in Overwatch. When a stomp happens, it's easy to blame the matchmaker: the match felt unfair, so it must be because the other team was much better or worse than your own. That might not always be the case, though. We’ve been collecting data and lopsided matches tend to happen at the same rate, regardless of match quality. Even in matches where the skill difference between players is less than one division. Have you ever played a match in Control and gotten clobbered on the first point, only to turn it around on the second and then win the match? During that first point, it's easy to think the match was made incorrectly. The point of this example is that we think there are mechanics in Overwatch that contribute to matches turning out this way. For instance, the way ult charge is generated in the game is a snowball mechanic, and it can be very hard to stop that momentum. When a team wins a fight, they typically generate more ult, but they also get to dictate positioning for the next fight, they get to stick together without the same chance of getting staggered as the loser. In the earlier example of Control, the reset between rounds negates many of these mechanics and puts each team on an even playing field for the next round. We are continually working on our matchmaker, but the biggest gains for perceived competitiveness in Overwatch lies in looking at our core mechanics and game modes and making adjustments here. More to come on this topic.

    I've always felt that the stompiness people perceive in OW2 came from the switch to 5v5. It's a format that results in more definitive outcomes to team fights, often stemming from a singular mistake by one player. IMO open queue needs to become 6v6 for players who prefer that format. I'm glad they're finally talking about ult charge snowballing at least, that's something they should have revisited a while ago after the game became stompier.

    This would be horrible for the health of the game. It would split the playerbase even further and make queue times/balanced matches even worse than they already are, and also the devs would have to choose between a) do they ignore 6v6 hero balance in which case that mode is never going to feel good and they're opening themselves up to constant complaints from that group, or b) do they balance both modes (which would have to be balanced significantly differently with a second tank in the mix) and now their team is being spread even thinner than it already is.

    Like, this idea sounds great at first blush - gives everyone what they want! - but the way it would play out in reality would make basically nobody happy.

    At best they could maybe make it an arcade mode along with mystery heroes and total mayhem, and let people just go in and fuck around with no expectation of a serious or balanced experience.

    You know there's already open queue in both QP and Comp right? They put barely any effort into it as it is, and it hasn't hurt role queue. If it draws players over with 6v6, that's only because they like it better.

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