people need to stop playing competitive. we're four years in and the only people left are husks and veterans and ghouls.
Tanking in QP is great, because everyone is far more relaxed, and the queue is still two minutes, and I can have an enjoyable time.
+2
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
I have ongoing boundless respect for tanks who continue to main tank, because I've rarely had any tank experiences (that weren't dive tank) which were satisfying, or didn't involve me getting absolutely deleted
After an extremely long hiatus from actually playing the game I have started playing it again but internalizing it more I think the main reason I quit is that I poured an insane amount of my life into improving at a character, mildly climbed up in the ranks feeling like the game validated my effort, then added a hard counter with a 10-1 matchup that guaranteed I was going to need to stop playing that character so I would need to pour the same amount of my life into being proficient at alternatives instead
so I quit because feeling completely and utterly powerless after all that effort was extremely upsetting
I don't think anyone in this thread has fun playing Competitive. Come play QP with us, it's fun as long as you can put aside the instinct to micromanage what your team is doing. I play main tank and it's mostly fine. There's no meta and hardly anybody throws.
Games with longer lives (MOBAs especially) have taught us that giving too much of a fuck over something that you are not entirely in control of will cause you to lose your mind.
I play a hyper aggressive barrier tank or zarya. I play peel on high platform games. I keep my healers alive. I call out low enemies. The rest is in the hands of a God who does not listen to my pleas.
good lord, in what world does a Winston complaint about no peel? peeling is your job
Without checking the replay, he was against a Reaper and Echo who seemed like they were up in his ass, but he was also constantly overextended and they were self-staggering by not pushing with their team after killing him. I imagine he wanted someone to switch to like McCree and kill the Reaper before it killed him, but it was like 80-0 on the point cap when he left, so who the fuck even knows.
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
lololololol this is their experiment card this week, 8/10 troll effort:
We’ve been hearing feedback about Brigitte that she feels too powerful overall. We’d like to try some changes intended to bring Brigitte’s balance more in-line with other supports. This test will be focused on a key change to her Repair Pack that no longer grants additional armor when healing full health targets. Additionally, we’re testing some updates to her Barrier Shield that enable it to block more damage upfront but with more downtime if it gets destroyed.
We’ll also be testing some changes to a few other heroes during this phase of the experimental card being live:
-We want D.Va’s gameplay to feel fluid and agile. We’re testing a few changes to her abilities that should allow for quicker reactions when using her guns and Defense Matrix.
-We recently made some updates to Ashe’s gun (The Viper) to increase the power-level of her Primary and Secondary fire. We like how The Viper is currently playing, but Ashe is a bit too powerful overall. We’re testing a change to increase the cooldown on her Dynamite to decrease her area-of-effect damage while keeping her single-target damage intact.
-In the Anniversary patch, we made some updates to Junkrat that unintentionally nerfed his ability to double jump with Concussion Mine. We’re trying out two quality-of-life changes here that should fix the double jump tech as well as how soon you can regain character control after using RIP-Tire.
HERO UPDATES (ONLY IN EXPERIMENTAL)
Ashe
Dynamite
Cooldown increased from 10 to 12 seconds
Brigitte
Repair Pack
No longer grants an additional armor health pool when healing full health targets
Barrier Shield
Maximum health increased from 200 to 250
Regeneration rate decreased from 100 to 85 health per second
Cooldown when destroyed increased from 3 to 5 seconds
D.Va
Fusion Cannons
Movement penalty reduced from 50 to 40%
Defense Matrix
Cooldown reduced from 1.5 to 1 second
Micro Missiles
Activation delay reduced from 0.5 to 0.25 seconds
Junkrat
Concussion Mine
Trigger delay reduced from 0.156 to 0.1 seconds
RIP-Tire
Time to take control of Junkrat post detonation has been reduced from 1.5 to 0.9 seconds
That kills Bridget flat out. The simplest thing was to just make the health packs at most an extra half second to recharge and to just make the pack's armor bonus turn into a shield bonus, because the problem is the armor buff they did months ago. It's why Reinhardt is so strong. And you also kill one of the few Genji counters when he's now shredding people left and right with his alternate fire.
Ashe is getting a small nerf but they're still letting things like building ult while Bob is out or her ult charge remain. DvA doesn't need a buff because you need to work on Rein and Sigma. The Junkrat change was weird with the double jump being harder because how fast you throw the mine for like the first week, but you got used to it.
I just don't understand what they're seeing or if they really are just listening only to the supposed streamer/pro discord that exists out there.
0
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
that junkrat change is a scuffed way of stopping latency ruining close mine jumps but i think they should change how it works more thoroughly
the delay to take control of him after tyre is nice but would have been fine with it left as it was
i haven't seen it tested, but i'm assuming that it means it won't give any armor at all, and will only heal you to full normal health at most
Yeah, this is correct based on what people are saying on the Reddits. Overheal outside her ult is totally gone. Not sure why they wouldn't just say "Repair pack no longer grants armor, period." They're bound and determined to completely kill her viability, huh?
it seems like the idea is to nerf her ability to enable dive, and buff her a bit as an anti-dive healer (while also punishing her more for letting her shield get destroyed).
which...yeah. not really sure why they feel this is more necessary than any other number of issues. brig seemed like she was in a pretty good place overall.
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2020
Brig was a case of getting nerfed because of high level play.
At lower SRs she wasn't a big deal but at higher SRs they would really cheese the overheal to lopside DPS battles.
Also whenever Brig gets nerfed I think about just how OP she was on initial release.
Like she's lost
Instaheal armor packs
Shield Bash damage
Self heal decreased
Rally armor being permanent until damaged and 150.
Is she really used that much though at the higher SRs? Checking the OWL stats from the last three months, and assuming I'm reading their terrible, broken interface right, she's the second LEAST picked healer, ahead of only Mercy. And if that's the argument for why she needs to be nerfed, what about the healers who have basically never NOT been in the GM/OWL meta?
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited June 2020
Brig wasn't picked a lot not because she was bad but because
A) A lot of people soured on her because she was nerfed from her OP version and didn't play her just because.
A lot of other supports were more meta or overtuned at the time.
Like she was always good it just took people time to realize it.
A character who is both unpopular and overpowered probably needs a redesign. This seems like a pretty huge nerf to be made to Brig at low/mid level play without getting something in return.
+1
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I don't really think it is.
Most low level players probably weren't utilizing overheal like that anyway.
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Bridget let Echo run hard on delivering burst damage (Something that has been growing more and more in the game) that Rein and Sigma could clean up as they marched forward with Ana EZ healing, and the heal pack on Tracer allowed consistent life in the backfield. Only now Genii replaces Tracer because too powerful and you always want nanoblade.
All they had to do was reduce health pack range and slow down the packs healing to double what it is and you could have kept armor on it then. The shield increase is just pointless because unless you bring shield bash back to real damage or let healing aura trigger with shield bash it’s more a last ditch thing against flankers, otherwise you have to change her primary and whip.
Most low level players probably weren't utilizing overheal like that anyway.
I feel like it's the opposite. Armoring divers as they engage is a very basic and obvious thing to do while there's not much else to be doing with her. Throwing out packs on CD in a hectic fight is also guaranteed to give SOME benefit with the overheal mechanic. It's removing a tool in her kit from all levels of play, while also upping the penalty for using it poorly/haphazardly, but without also giving her some benefit in trade when using it well.
Low ELO players apparently have no idea how much healing they’re getting. Still waiting for “it’s impossible to outheal bad positioning” as a voice line.
+1
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Low ELO players apparently have no idea how much healing they’re getting. Still waiting for “it’s impossible to outheal bad positioning” as a voice line.
I have been told I need to heal more when it turns out I get 30% of damage healing card at the end.
Low ELO players apparently have no idea how much healing they’re getting. Still waiting for “it’s impossible to outheal bad positioning” as a voice line.
I have been told I need to heal more when it turns out I get 30% of damage healing card at the end.
I know, right? My favorite was when I healed 42% on Moira, but still got complaints. It’s genji spamming I need healing as he dashes solo into the enemy, but the entire team.
+1
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Low ELO players apparently have no idea how much healing they’re getting. Still waiting for “it’s impossible to outheal bad positioning” as a voice line.
universally true at all ratings
+2
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
It probably still wouldn't compare to the power of overhealing in general, but if they were to remove overhealing it would be cool to see her armor pack instead *convert* a set value of health to armor so it still actually confers at least some modicum of benefit without dramatically increasing survivability for the flimsier dive characters by a significant percentage
Low ELO players apparently have no idea how much healing they’re getting. Still waiting for “it’s impossible to outheal bad positioning” as a voice line.
I’d love an ult built for your team vs ult built for the enemy team meter for each player. That way people can see who is feeding and it makes the ult economy impact of heroes like Hog more obvious.
I'm not sure how useful that'd actually be. Tanks are obviously going to contribute far more to enemy ult charge just because they have actual health pools, and get healed. Like compare a tank who is fighting tooth and nail for 30 seconds versus a Genji who immediately dies. The problem is the asshat who made it a 6v5, but their contribution to the enemy ult meter was probably minimal, while the tanks are going to be huge meter sinks. You also have characters like Rein who can have their ult generation almost totally shut down if a DVa, or Sigma to a lesser extent, decide that they're going to focus-bully them.
Also, there's the whole thing with no ult is built if it's already full.
Even if there were a reliable way to skill rank your teammates' performance and find out exactly who is making you lose I don't see that as anything but a negative. People are assholes and can't be trusted with that information.
I think there would be merit to having some kind of scoreboard between rounds, or at the very least at the end of a match. Yeah, some people will use it to be more toxic, but I would say that those people already find excuses to be toxic without it. What it would absolutely do is make the people who are stealth (or not stealth) throwing very obvious, and there are a shitload of those who fly under the radar, without being reported, and generate friction between other people. It'd expose them to be reported and rectified, and redirect the toxicity towards the people causing problems. It would also address at least partially the "gold medal or nothing" mindset. If someone's 'gold' but their numbers suck and are only marginally above everyone else's...
But removing medals altogether would be better yet.
+1
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah that's weird especially since they designed certain heroes to "feed" more than others.
I'm not sure how useful that'd actually be. Tanks are obviously going to contribute far more to enemy ult charge just because they have actual health pools, and get healed. Like compare a tank who is fighting tooth and nail for 30 seconds versus a Genji who immediately dies. The problem is the asshat who made it a 6v5, but their contribution to the enemy ult meter was probably minimal, while the tanks are going to be huge meter sinks. You also have characters like Rein who can have their ult generation almost totally shut down if a DVa, or Sigma to a lesser extent, decide that they're going to focus-bully them.
Also, there's the whole thing with no ult is built if it's already full.
I’d see it scaled to the hero and role to adjust for the issues you mention. Also, it would be easy to include “overcharge” by counting potential charge production.
Also, it would likely be a ratio, so the genji you mentioned would have a horrible ratio (ult generates for enemy from a free kill would easily outweigh the ult generated by the minor amount of dmg done, particularly because chip damage would contribute to enemy support charge).
A main tank would also do fine because of the healing generated for his team due to getting healed up by supports and dmg done to the enemy team.
It would also help differentiate between DPS doing chip dmg that gets healed up and those actually securing kills even if the total damage is lower.
That said, the criticisms about toxicity from information are well taken. However, a lack of useful information does not prevent toxicity because we still receive (mostly useless) information.
So toxicity right now is often based on useless information. My ult charge ratio may not be the best solution. But leaving players in the dark about actually useful information isn’t a solution either.
Yeah that's weird especially since they designed certain heroes to "feed" more than others.
It’s easy to feed on any role. For example, a S76 who puts a couple shots into a tank and runs away, only for the chip dmg to be healed easily, is feeding ult charge.
A great example of a DPS feed was in a recent NYXL game. Jjonak and hotba farmed Ana ult charge by letting a torb turret do chip dmg between fight to DVA that Ana could farm ult charge.
It’s more subtle than a feeding hog or ball but it still makes a difference. Another is players refusing to suicide to resets and instead letting the enemy clean them up. Pros suicide far more often not only to reset faster but also to deny the enemy ult charge from free kills.
Even if there were a reliable way to skill rank your teammates' performance and find out exactly who is making you lose I don't see that as anything but a negative. People are assholes and can't be trusted with that information.
Players are toxic even though the information they have is useless and often actively misleading. Lack of accuracy doesn’t seem to suppress toxicity. It directs the toxicity based on the implications of available information, however useful, including medals and player intuition.
For me personally, it would easily rebut ideas about lack of healing. A quick comparison between healers on both teams would quickly reveal that, even as an “off support”, I commonly have the highest healing on server.
It would also show the massive damage mitigation difference between comps with actual functioning tank lines and those without (like a hardlocked hog/Dva combo I had the misfortune of playing with last night).
0
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yeah that's weird especially since they designed certain heroes to "feed" more than others.
It’s easy to feed on any role. For example, a S76 who puts a couple shots into a tank and runs away, only for the chip dmg to be healed easily, is feeding ult charge.
A great example of a DPS feed was in a recent NYXL game. Jjonak and hotba farmed Ana ult charge by letting a torb turret do chip dmg between fight to DVA that Ana could farm ult charge.
It’s more subtle than a feeding hog or ball but it still makes a difference. Another is players refusing to suicide to resets and instead letting the enemy clean them up. Pros suicide far more often not only to reset faster but also to deny the enemy ult charge from free kills.
That's not the same as characters who will put themselves in risky situations just to engage and have minimal shielding.
A system like that would naturally make more defensive and long range characters look better even if they aren't really accomplishing anything.
Posts
Tanking in QP is great, because everyone is far more relaxed, and the queue is still two minutes, and I can have an enjoyable time.
After an extremely long hiatus from actually playing the game I have started playing it again but internalizing it more I think the main reason I quit is that I poured an insane amount of my life into improving at a character, mildly climbed up in the ranks feeling like the game validated my effort, then added a hard counter with a 10-1 matchup that guaranteed I was going to need to stop playing that character so I would need to pour the same amount of my life into being proficient at alternatives instead
so I quit because feeling completely and utterly powerless after all that effort was extremely upsetting
I play a hyper aggressive barrier tank or zarya. I play peel on high platform games. I keep my healers alive. I call out low enemies. The rest is in the hands of a God who does not listen to my pleas.
Without checking the replay, he was against a Reaper and Echo who seemed like they were up in his ass, but he was also constantly overextended and they were self-staggering by not pushing with their team after killing him. I imagine he wanted someone to switch to like McCree and kill the Reaper before it killed him, but it was like 80-0 on the point cap when he left, so who the fuck even knows.
That kills Bridget flat out. The simplest thing was to just make the health packs at most an extra half second to recharge and to just make the pack's armor bonus turn into a shield bonus, because the problem is the armor buff they did months ago. It's why Reinhardt is so strong. And you also kill one of the few Genji counters when he's now shredding people left and right with his alternate fire.
Ashe is getting a small nerf but they're still letting things like building ult while Bob is out or her ult charge remain. DvA doesn't need a buff because you need to work on Rein and Sigma. The Junkrat change was weird with the double jump being harder because how fast you throw the mine for like the first week, but you got used to it.
I just don't understand what they're seeing or if they really are just listening only to the supposed streamer/pro discord that exists out there.
the delay to take control of him after tyre is nice but would have been fine with it left as it was
And here's a huge massive nerf to her shield too.
Yeah, this is correct based on what people are saying on the Reddits. Overheal outside her ult is totally gone. Not sure why they wouldn't just say "Repair pack no longer grants armor, period." They're bound and determined to completely kill her viability, huh?
which...yeah. not really sure why they feel this is more necessary than any other number of issues. brig seemed like she was in a pretty good place overall.
At lower SRs she wasn't a big deal but at higher SRs they would really cheese the overheal to lopside DPS battles.
Also whenever Brig gets nerfed I think about just how OP she was on initial release.
Like she's lost
Instaheal armor packs
Shield Bash damage
Self heal decreased
Rally armor being permanent until damaged and 150.
And she's still great lol.
A) A lot of people soured on her because she was nerfed from her OP version and didn't play her just because.
Like she was always good it just took people time to realize it.
Most low level players probably weren't utilizing overheal like that anyway.
All they had to do was reduce health pack range and slow down the packs healing to double what it is and you could have kept armor on it then. The shield increase is just pointless because unless you bring shield bash back to real damage or let healing aura trigger with shield bash it’s more a last ditch thing against flankers, otherwise you have to change her primary and whip.
I feel like it's the opposite. Armoring divers as they engage is a very basic and obvious thing to do while there's not much else to be doing with her. Throwing out packs on CD in a hectic fight is also guaranteed to give SOME benefit with the overheal mechanic. It's removing a tool in her kit from all levels of play, while also upping the penalty for using it poorly/haphazardly, but without also giving her some benefit in trade when using it well.
I have been told I need to heal more when it turns out I get 30% of damage healing card at the end.
I know, right? My favorite was when I healed 42% on Moira, but still got complaints. It’s genji spamming I need healing as he dashes solo into the enemy, but the entire team.
universally true at all ratings
Yet more reason for a voice line
Love, the zen with a 60% win rate.
5head
(congrats to them both of course)
Also, there's the whole thing with no ult is built if it's already full.
But removing medals altogether would be better yet.
I’d see it scaled to the hero and role to adjust for the issues you mention. Also, it would be easy to include “overcharge” by counting potential charge production.
Also, it would likely be a ratio, so the genji you mentioned would have a horrible ratio (ult generates for enemy from a free kill would easily outweigh the ult generated by the minor amount of dmg done, particularly because chip damage would contribute to enemy support charge).
A main tank would also do fine because of the healing generated for his team due to getting healed up by supports and dmg done to the enemy team.
It would also help differentiate between DPS doing chip dmg that gets healed up and those actually securing kills even if the total damage is lower.
That said, the criticisms about toxicity from information are well taken. However, a lack of useful information does not prevent toxicity because we still receive (mostly useless) information.
So toxicity right now is often based on useless information. My ult charge ratio may not be the best solution. But leaving players in the dark about actually useful information isn’t a solution either.
It’s easy to feed on any role. For example, a S76 who puts a couple shots into a tank and runs away, only for the chip dmg to be healed easily, is feeding ult charge.
A great example of a DPS feed was in a recent NYXL game. Jjonak and hotba farmed Ana ult charge by letting a torb turret do chip dmg between fight to DVA that Ana could farm ult charge.
It’s more subtle than a feeding hog or ball but it still makes a difference. Another is players refusing to suicide to resets and instead letting the enemy clean them up. Pros suicide far more often not only to reset faster but also to deny the enemy ult charge from free kills.
Players are toxic even though the information they have is useless and often actively misleading. Lack of accuracy doesn’t seem to suppress toxicity. It directs the toxicity based on the implications of available information, however useful, including medals and player intuition.
For me personally, it would easily rebut ideas about lack of healing. A quick comparison between healers on both teams would quickly reveal that, even as an “off support”, I commonly have the highest healing on server.
It would also show the massive damage mitigation difference between comps with actual functioning tank lines and those without (like a hardlocked hog/Dva combo I had the misfortune of playing with last night).
That's not the same as characters who will put themselves in risky situations just to engage and have minimal shielding.
A system like that would naturally make more defensive and long range characters look better even if they aren't really accomplishing anything.
We are not the problem. You are.
Love,
The rest of your team