I mean for one thing there's absolutely a reason this release is kind of half baked, and it's because they only really worked on it full time for the last year. Before that they were stuck in dev hell on PvE. We may never know what went wrong in that time, but the pandemic and turnover from the scandals didn't help. Insulting the developers themselves is always misguided. Blame leadership if you must. But even then I think people give too much credit to Jeff and not enough to Aaron. Kotick is also a popular boogeyman but I think that's too reductive.
I think their dev strategy in the early years of OW2 was a mistake. What they've done in the last year was mostly returning to what it should have been in the first place. Sooner or later they will have both resolved the launch struggles and released PvE, and then we'll really see where the grand vision has gotten them.
Didn't a dev that left specifically mention that Kotick was being hands on and detrimental to dev work?
I mean for one thing there's absolutely a reason this release is kind of half baked, and it's because they only really worked on it full time for the last year. Before that they were stuck in dev hell on PvE. We may never know what went wrong in that time, but the pandemic and turnover from the scandals didn't help. Insulting the developers themselves is always misguided. Blame leadership if you must. But even then I think people give too much credit to Jeff and not enough to Aaron. Kotick is also a popular boogeyman but I think that's too reductive.
I think their dev strategy in the early years of OW2 was a mistake. What they've done in the last year was mostly returning to what it should have been in the first place. Sooner or later they will have both resolved the launch struggles and released PvE, and then we'll really see where the grand vision has gotten them.
Didn't a dev that left specifically mention that Kotick was being hands on and detrimental to dev work?
Something about telling the OW team to chase after one feature and then cancelling it months later to focus on another feature only for that one to get cancelled as well.
Bobby, tell everyone about the random projects for OW1 you all would shove on us, the team would do OT for only them to get cancelled and for months of OW2 dev to have been lost. Or how almost entire teams are turning over and citing you as the reason. Don't be shy
I've seen that source cited a lot but there were never more details and it's never come up anywhere else. I'm really skeptical that one CEO stepped in and singlehandedly controlled months of dev time against the will of the rest of leadership. I know he's a dirtbag, but software development doesn't really work that way (in successful studios).
Note she actually says "you all". It seems like her grievance is with all of leadership.
I mean sure but when you're at the top of the pyramid there's not a whole lot of meaningful difference between "caused it to happen" and "allowed it to happen", and it's very easy for me to believe ol' Bobby K is a combination of both in this case
I mean, she originally brought it up because Kotick was blaming the delay for Overwatch 2 and Diablo 4 for the stock price drop which made is sound like a dev issue rather than a leadership issue.
And realistically, if Kotick can claim ownership of the success of a game, he can also claim ownership of the associated failures.
That doesn't match my experience at all. I've seen pretty much everyone win (barring Doomfist). Hell, D.Va isn't even the best tank right now (it's Zarya).
Yeah, I main Zenyatta and have had no prob winning though admittedly, I play Unranked.
That doesn't match my experience at all. I've seen pretty much everyone win (barring Doomfist). Hell, D.Va isn't even the best tank right now (it's Zarya).
Yeah, I main Zenyatta and have had no prob winning though admittedly, I play Unranked.
zen is good af rn ball man never fails
+4
TTODewbackPuts the drawl in ya'llI think I'm in HellRegistered Userregular
DvA/Sojourn/Sombra/Lucio/Moira or Kiriko, that's all it is, if you don't play that or aren't 5 stacking then you lose. The game just isn't fun right now and I'll check in with Junkenstein.
If they're going to do no serious changes until December, give us hero ban, at least we have some control given back instead of being at Sombra's whim.
Yeah in almost every masters level game I've seen it's almost always zarya vs zarya
and if a zarya is missing that team loses.
healers is mostly moira/mercy or lucio/mercy with a smattering of ana/zen thrown in. havent seen much kiriko outside of casual games.
dps varies but sojourn and genji seem to be the most popular overall. seeing more widows and cassidys in higher level matches than sombra right now.
That doesn't match my experience at all. I've seen pretty much everyone win (barring Doomfist). Hell, D.Va isn't even the best tank right now (it's Zarya).
Yeah, I main Zenyatta and have had no prob winning though admittedly, I play Unranked.
zen is good af rn ball man never fails
when dem nutz hit them faces, it's over. he seems to excel more of fast paced attacking team comps
edit: above opinion is based on approx 3 hours of watching masters matches
It used to be <Tank<<Support<<<<<<DPS for wait times
Now it's <Support<<DPS<<<<<<<<<<<<<Tank
I wonder what Blizz can do to create incentive for more people to play support?
I figure they got way too much feedback from pros to make the game fun, and likely missed how frustrating it is to play support at lower ranks and get mulched over and over. At least a DPS can get a pick between getting steamrolled. Pro Ana and aggro Zens and wall-hack lucios can thrive in this new meta where there is no safe backline and they can be further rewarded for aggression, but that isn't the norm for a lot of players.
I mean, the reason tank queue is up isn't because there's a lot more people playing tank. It's because they dropped the number of tanks they're looking for by half.
I mean, the reason tank queue is up isn't because there's a lot more people playing tank. It's because they dropped the number of tanks they're looking for by half.
Pretty much...its a combo of more people playing tank and all the tank players having to queue for a single role.
I'm hoping it levels out but ngl as someone who was a tank main since vanilla it does urk a bit.
I think it's mostly just about the fun factor of playing support. The more fun heroes they add, and the more fun they make the existing ones, the better the queues will be. Kiriko is a good start. They've said two more supports are coming next year. I also think they should consider reworks for whichever supports have the lowest pick rate.
-Damage orb + rmb most isolated/lowest health squishy
80% of the time they will never spot you until it's either too late or worse case, will not be able to kill you before you can blink back
-Damage orb + rmb most isolated/lowest health squishy
80% of the time they will never spot you until it's either too late or worse case, will not be able to kill you before you can blink back
-repeat
This strategy also works because now you can see your entire fucking team so you can actually tell who needs healing/help and can just spray them through the enemy team. My fucking world for the main game to just have the fucking PvE interface that shows you at all times everybody's health and ult status. Why it doesn't is a fucking mystery to me.
I like to think of it as the sky dunk too with her verticality during fade.
But really why I think this is strong is because it converts random poke bullshit into confirms, and CDs are so low in the game that you can fade again by the time it takes them to turn to you.
Just make leveling up give you a generic currency that you can spend on whatever you want. No battle pass, no loot boxes, none of that nonsense. If you want to allow people to buy the currency with money then sure, monetize it that way if you must.
+1
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
i'm okay with leveling not being a thing anymore but had i known they would stick whatever level you had back in OW1 at the top of your profile i woulda tried to end with a more aesthetically pleasing level border
just having two gold stars forever is gonna bug me every time
I know it was meaningless but they shouldn't have got rid of the on fire meter.
It was nice that the game confirmed that "Yes. You are indeed popping off".
I think that's my problem with a lot of OW2 stuff rn. It's functional and competent but it's missing that extra pizazz.
The visual polish is definitely downgraded. It's like I said, they had the technical expertise to make the graphics more complex, but no art direction to actually make it look good.
Just look at the "VICTORY!" screen flash. OW1 has bright electric arcs flying all over the thing. OW2 it's this downplayed muted thing. It's the exact same different between OW1 Mercy beam and OW2 Mercy beam. It probably takes more resources to display, but it just looks worse.
Not gonna lie, I actually like the battle pass. It feels better to me than loot boxes which I didn't really care about. I like a grind with an end in sight rather than just being endless. If I had one request it would be to replace various items in the pass with coins instead. I don't think they easily can do that in S1 but we'll see if they respond to the feedback for S2.
The shop I don't intend to to use much, and I hope they aren't going to put the good stuff in there. We'll see what happens for the Halloween skins. But I already like all the legendaries I'm using, so it'll have to be really good to get me to fork over more money.
My other concern is that all of their incentives to play flex/support are battle pass XP based (or a tiny amount of weekly coins), and that's fairly useless for free players who don't get anything good on the battle pass. I think they need to be more generous on the free track if they want people to care about it at all.
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
I know it was meaningless but they shouldn't have got rid of the on fire meter.
It was nice that the game confirmed that "Yes. You are indeed popping off".
I think that's my problem with a lot of OW2 stuff rn. It's functional and competent but it's missing that extra pizazz.
The visual polish is definitely downgraded. It's like I said, they had the technical expertise to make the graphics more complex, but no art direction to actually make it look good.
Just look at the "VICTORY!" screen flash. OW1 has bright electric arcs flying all over the thing. OW2 it's this downplayed muted thing. It's the exact same different between OW1 Mercy beam and OW2 Mercy beam. It probably takes more resources to display, but it just looks worse.
This is why, for all the talk about lazy developers the last page, I can't deny there is a sense of the developers actually being lazy with things that should have just been easily ported. For ease of discussion, if you transferred all the models and things into the new game (and it sure looks that way with no real new details or polish), you would at least have all the old assets there and just spruce it up, but in spots in the UI it feels more like the game making equivalent of built in title effects in video editors. Which is weird because it means they actually made effort to make it look less appealing than the existing stuff already there for OW1.
I have to wonder, did they somehow lose the license rights to the OW1 theme and that's why it's not in the game?
I know it was meaningless but they shouldn't have got rid of the on fire meter.
It was nice that the game confirmed that "Yes. You are indeed popping off".
I think that's my problem with a lot of OW2 stuff rn. It's functional and competent but it's missing that extra pizazz.
You can also guide and inform player behavior via the interface (and more importantly, mechanics), which I'm really missing because christ, does it seem like Overwatch's playerbase just have flat out zero gamesense or awareness whatsoever. Like, don't run off to spawncamp without the objective, you imbeciles. And stop padding your states by racing headfirst into death. I had some hopes for the new "We're outnumbered!" automatic callout, but fuck if any DPS seems to pay any attention to it at all.
If I had a dime for every time I've watched a DPS burn all their abilities to get to the enemy, press Q, and immediately die while the rest of the team is still in spawn, I'd have a nice steak dinner. What the fuck is going through these idiots' minds? "I can 'expect' to at least trade if not better, therefore it's the team's fault if they don't follow up?" I can't help but feel like if DPS ults weren't seen as an "I automatically get a trade or better" button, people would play less fucking idiotic with them. Likewise, every tank who starts pulling back and going for cover when I start healing them immediately does a 180 and straight back into a hail of gunfire and then dies five seconds later because they wouldn't be healed. That shit just doesn't happen in Paladins because of the cauterize mechanic (healing received debuff when damage taken) naturally teaching you that if you want to actually be healed, STAY IN FUCKING COVER FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE SECONDS YOU IMBECILIC WALNUTS.
ArcTangent on
+2
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
You know I'm sure Rein probably gets bullied at GM but man have I been eating people's lunches with him.
I know it was meaningless but they shouldn't have got rid of the on fire meter.
It was nice that the game confirmed that "Yes. You are indeed popping off".
I think that's my problem with a lot of OW2 stuff rn. It's functional and competent but it's missing that extra pizazz.
The visual polish is definitely downgraded. It's like I said, they had the technical expertise to make the graphics more complex, but no art direction to actually make it look good.
Just look at the "VICTORY!" screen flash. OW1 has bright electric arcs flying all over the thing. OW2 it's this downplayed muted thing. It's the exact same different between OW1 Mercy beam and OW2 Mercy beam. It probably takes more resources to display, but it just looks worse.
This is why, for all the talk about lazy developers the last page, I can't deny there is a sense of the developers actually being lazy with things that should have just been easily ported. For ease of discussion, if you transferred all the models and things into the new game (and it sure looks that way with no real new details or polish), you would at least have all the old assets there and just spruce it up, but in spots in the UI it feels more like the game making equivalent of built in title effects in video editors. Which is weird because it means they actually made effort to make it look less appealing than the existing stuff already there for OW1.
I have to wonder, did they somehow lose the license rights to the OW1 theme and that's why it's not in the game?
I'm sorry but this is exactly the kind of clueless mentality I'm talking about. Like there's plenty about the changes they've made that I'm not a fan of, but to equate "I don't like this change" with "the devs were just lazy" is just...very, very silly. You even say yourself that they made an effort to make it less appealing - that's obviously ridiculous, but it's also the opposite of lazy!
And this isn't even touching on the idea of "you can just transfer everything into the new engine and 'spruce it up' and you're done". Like you're literally doing the "tighten up the graphics on level 3" meme right now.
And no, I guarantee you they didn't lose the license rights to the theme song that was made specifically for their game.
The UI and other visual elements do not feel like they come from one cohesive, well-thought, and polished game made by a billion-dollar company.
This doesn't read as a lazy effort to me, but more a chaotic and turbulent development where multiple leads have resigned in the past year alone and the effort known as Overwatch 2 has changed multiple time.
Like, you can't have that many strange and minute fuck-ups spread throughout the game's visual design from a company that used to be famed for their polish and not wonder what the fuck happened behind the scenes.
Lazy? No, probably not; making games is hard. A chaotic, dev team coasting off the efforts made by an OG Overwatch team that's likely long gone and trying to re-release your game with way more micro transactions during a pandemic, all the while lacking a unified vision for why you're even making a sequel? Probably.
+3
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited October 2022
TBH I'm not really sure what is chaotic about OW2 PvP. Hell it's actually less chaotic than OW1 vanilla(which might be both good and bad depending on how you look at it).
Like some UI quibbles aside it is functionally pretty solid.
Like not saying you have to like the game but I feel some of these nitpicks are nitpicks for the sake of nitpicking.
Posts
Didn't a dev that left specifically mention that Kotick was being hands on and detrimental to dev work?
Something about telling the OW team to chase after one feature and then cancelling it months later to focus on another feature only for that one to get cancelled as well.
Note she actually says "you all". It seems like her grievance is with all of leadership.
And realistically, if Kotick can claim ownership of the success of a game, he can also claim ownership of the associated failures.
Yeah, I main Zenyatta and have had no prob winning though admittedly, I play Unranked.
Let's Play Final Fantasy 'II' (Ch10 - 5/17/10)
zen is good af rn ball man never fails
Yeah in almost every masters level game I've seen it's almost always zarya vs zarya
and if a zarya is missing that team loses.
healers is mostly moira/mercy or lucio/mercy with a smattering of ana/zen thrown in. havent seen much kiriko outside of casual games.
dps varies but sojourn and genji seem to be the most popular overall. seeing more widows and cassidys in higher level matches than sombra right now.
when dem nutz hit them faces, it's over. he seems to excel more of fast paced attacking team comps
edit: above opinion is based on approx 3 hours of watching masters matches
thats probably would be why i havent seen her.
It used to be <Tank<<Support<<<<<<DPS for wait times
Now it's <Support<<DPS<<<<<<<<<<<<<Tank
I wonder what Blizz can do to create incentive for more people to play support?
I figure they got way too much feedback from pros to make the game fun, and likely missed how frustrating it is to play support at lower ranks and get mulched over and over. At least a DPS can get a pick between getting steamrolled. Pro Ana and aggro Zens and wall-hack lucios can thrive in this new meta where there is no safe backline and they can be further rewarded for aggression, but that isn't the norm for a lot of players.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Maybe we'll get OW classic like they did with WoW.
Pretty much...its a combo of more people playing tank and all the tank players having to queue for a single role.
I'm hoping it levels out but ngl as someone who was a tank main since vanilla it does urk a bit.
-Pick Moira
-Heal until empty
-Blink behind enemy back line
-Damage orb + rmb most isolated/lowest health squishy
80% of the time they will never spot you until it's either too late or worse case, will not be able to kill you before you can blink back
-repeat
This strategy also works because now you can see your entire fucking team so you can actually tell who needs healing/help and can just spray them through the enemy team. My fucking world for the main game to just have the fucking PvE interface that shows you at all times everybody's health and ult status. Why it doesn't is a fucking mystery to me.
I like to think of it as the sky dunk too with her verticality during fade.
But really why I think this is strong is because it converts random poke bullshit into confirms, and CDs are so low in the game that you can fade again by the time it takes them to turn to you.
Yeah its wild that leveling up means nothing now, when before it was like oh hey a little treat how exciting
pensive
just having two gold stars forever is gonna bug me every time
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It was nice that the game confirmed that "Yes. You are indeed popping off".
I think that's my problem with a lot of OW2 stuff rn. It's functional and competent but it's missing that extra pizazz.
So far every single comp game for the past 2 days has gone to the team that doesn't have a Kiriko.
The visual polish is definitely downgraded. It's like I said, they had the technical expertise to make the graphics more complex, but no art direction to actually make it look good.
Just look at the "VICTORY!" screen flash. OW1 has bright electric arcs flying all over the thing. OW2 it's this downplayed muted thing. It's the exact same different between OW1 Mercy beam and OW2 Mercy beam. It probably takes more resources to display, but it just looks worse.
Well yeah but competitive isn't the place to be learning new characters you can't play very well yet.
You would think statistically that 50% of terrible Kiriko's would be on the enemy team, but it's closer to 0%.
(seriously, my last 4 out of 4 losses have been a Kiriko on my team but not the enemy)
The shop I don't intend to to use much, and I hope they aren't going to put the good stuff in there. We'll see what happens for the Halloween skins. But I already like all the legendaries I'm using, so it'll have to be really good to get me to fork over more money.
My other concern is that all of their incentives to play flex/support are battle pass XP based (or a tiny amount of weekly coins), and that's fairly useless for free players who don't get anything good on the battle pass. I think they need to be more generous on the free track if they want people to care about it at all.
This is why, for all the talk about lazy developers the last page, I can't deny there is a sense of the developers actually being lazy with things that should have just been easily ported. For ease of discussion, if you transferred all the models and things into the new game (and it sure looks that way with no real new details or polish), you would at least have all the old assets there and just spruce it up, but in spots in the UI it feels more like the game making equivalent of built in title effects in video editors. Which is weird because it means they actually made effort to make it look less appealing than the existing stuff already there for OW1.
I have to wonder, did they somehow lose the license rights to the OW1 theme and that's why it's not in the game?
You can also guide and inform player behavior via the interface (and more importantly, mechanics), which I'm really missing because christ, does it seem like Overwatch's playerbase just have flat out zero gamesense or awareness whatsoever. Like, don't run off to spawncamp without the objective, you imbeciles. And stop padding your states by racing headfirst into death. I had some hopes for the new "We're outnumbered!" automatic callout, but fuck if any DPS seems to pay any attention to it at all.
If I had a dime for every time I've watched a DPS burn all their abilities to get to the enemy, press Q, and immediately die while the rest of the team is still in spawn, I'd have a nice steak dinner. What the fuck is going through these idiots' minds? "I can 'expect' to at least trade if not better, therefore it's the team's fault if they don't follow up?" I can't help but feel like if DPS ults weren't seen as an "I automatically get a trade or better" button, people would play less fucking idiotic with them. Likewise, every tank who starts pulling back and going for cover when I start healing them immediately does a 180 and straight back into a hail of gunfire and then dies five seconds later because they wouldn't be healed. That shit just doesn't happen in Paladins because of the cauterize mechanic (healing received debuff when damage taken) naturally teaching you that if you want to actually be healed, STAY IN FUCKING COVER FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE SECONDS YOU IMBECILIC WALNUTS.
I'm sorry but this is exactly the kind of clueless mentality I'm talking about. Like there's plenty about the changes they've made that I'm not a fan of, but to equate "I don't like this change" with "the devs were just lazy" is just...very, very silly. You even say yourself that they made an effort to make it less appealing - that's obviously ridiculous, but it's also the opposite of lazy!
And this isn't even touching on the idea of "you can just transfer everything into the new engine and 'spruce it up' and you're done". Like you're literally doing the "tighten up the graphics on level 3" meme right now.
And no, I guarantee you they didn't lose the license rights to the theme song that was made specifically for their game.
This doesn't read as a lazy effort to me, but more a chaotic and turbulent development where multiple leads have resigned in the past year alone and the effort known as Overwatch 2 has changed multiple time.
Like, you can't have that many strange and minute fuck-ups spread throughout the game's visual design from a company that used to be famed for their polish and not wonder what the fuck happened behind the scenes.
Lazy? No, probably not; making games is hard. A chaotic, dev team coasting off the efforts made by an OG Overwatch team that's likely long gone and trying to re-release your game with way more micro transactions during a pandemic, all the while lacking a unified vision for why you're even making a sequel? Probably.
Like some UI quibbles aside it is functionally pretty solid.
Like not saying you have to like the game but I feel some of these nitpicks are nitpicks for the sake of nitpicking.