[Nintendo Switch] Unironically, probably the best console you’ll ever own.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    They put quite a lot of effort into it two and a half decades ago, does that no longer count?

    Kai_San
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    DaringDirk wrote: »
    In almost all of those cases, the creators of the official work SHOULD be shamed, though? Sonic 4 is laughable trash compared to Sonic Mania, and Sega clearly realized that when they hired the guy to make their game. Fallout has gone off a quality cliff and the fact that the mods are higher quality than the newest official release is basically just a symptom of that. Etc etc.

    I suppose it's your right to go around angry at the state of all modded/homebrew-enhanced media, I just don't see the point. Things should be enjoyed on their own merits.

    Like suppose no mods had ever been released for Mario 64, and then this release comes along exactly as it is. Does that make it better? Just because nobody else improved it previously?

    Pick a random game...Steamworld Dig. I have no idea whether anyone has modded Steamworld Dig. If there are no mods for it, does that make its Switch rerelease better?

    Also, keep in mind that Nintendo does consider all the 'fan' work to be illegal. You know, because it is. People have made illegal copies of their properties. They do not see this as a service. They do not see it as legitimate. And from that stance, the modded/homebrew-enhanced media should not exist.

    As a thought exercise, what if Nintendo was just coming from that perspective? And they assume the majority of their audience does not break the law? And, crazy thought, what if they're right? Is it possible that the true core Nintendo audience that the company is after is NOT the obsessed person who will break the law to download ROMs and emulators? Maybe they're making games for kids, or normies.

    that's 100% absolutely unquestionably factually objectively wrong. You can't distribute some things, but it's not illegal to mess around with stuff you bought. (or licensed).

    That's why there's many fan releases that require the original purchased data to work, like Doom source ports. They only give you a legal port of the source cod, you gotta provide the .wads with the levels and assets in them.

    why are so many gamers so eager to defend ACTUAL ANTI-CONSUMER practices. well not just gamers, but music and movie fans too.

    it's so weird that people keep arguing in favor of all the bullshit MPAA, RIAA, Apple, Google and publishers like EA and Activision wanna do.

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  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    These games were always going to be emulated, expecting anything else would be crazy. Rewriting even old game architectures from scratch is a ton of work, and I'm sure Nintendo would rightfully rather put that effort into new releases.

    jseus this again

    it's not a thing

    just give Bluepoint, Grezzo or M2 a couple of yen and they'll make you the best possible version of any game you want. There is not bizarre zero-sum "effort points" to be spent.

    And the fact that it's emulated just makes it SADDER that we're not getting any features; emulators can give you amazing extra stuff, a jailbroken switch already runs Mario 64 at 1080p, 60fps and a ton more cool things. Nintendo could have paid some of those fan devs some pretty cheap fees to license their work. I mean, they're already using what looks like a scene release of the game ISOs.

    Emulating the games actually makes it very much more possible and very much more easy to enhance the game.

    Nintendo had some very capable people do the least possible effort to put this out the door.

    I bought it and I'm gonna enjoy it, but don't tell me they couldn't have done a lot better for not that much more cost.

    These imaginary bizarro points you are alluding to is called 'money'.

    It costs money to spend on these things. And you have to have a reasonable expectation that spending money to add those things will actually increase the amount of money you make from it, and will not cause more issues. It's hard to predict where issues will crop up from this type of thing. Open source emulators don't really have to worry about everything working right like Nintendo does with a commercial product.

    Besides which, the concept of licensing out these emulators is a whole big can of worms I don't think you appreciate how complicated it can be. If these emulators and features have multiple contributors or have a standard license with them, this can be either extremely tricky to negotiate, or just flat out impossible. Capcom found this out with their standalone fight stick collection, which included an emulator which by its license is forbidden from being used in commercial products, so now they're going to get the pants sued off of them about it.

    Is it possible that an updated Mario 64 would sell enough to justify its cost on its own? Maybe, but then it would probably need to be its own standalone title, not part of an old games compilation. And even then it would be minimum 40 bucks on its own, I'd bet.

  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Crash and Spyro had 3 fully updated games somehow. Not sure why Nintendo games are their own magic category, but keep on stating that without actually arguing the point, I guess.

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  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    Crash and Spyro had 3 fully updated games somehow. Not sure why Nintendo games are their own magic category, but keep on stating that without actually arguing the point, I guess.

    I'm not saying that Nintendo is special, I'm saying that everything costs money, and that it's silly to come in here and act like 'software development is cheap and easy, actually'.

    Crash and Spyro are also different situations because those games were released much closer together in time, and probably had much more similar engines. For this release Nintendo had to do updates to an N64 game, a gamecube game, and a wii game.

    They are also dead series, with the IP owners trying to rebuild interest in them after lying fallow for years. From a business perspective, that necessitates a larger, flashier investment. For spyro at least, it's also a pretty specific remake. When you buy FF7 on the pc, you can't get mad it's not FF7-Remake. They're not intended to be the same thing.

    Like, my main point here is that it's silly to expect to get a Mario 64 remake, because it was never billed as that. It's a celebration of history by rereleasing an old game. Why be mad that that's what they did?

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Crash and Spyro had 3 fully updated games somehow. Not sure why Nintendo games are their own magic category, but keep on stating that without actually arguing the point, I guess.

    Don't forget Resident Evil 2 and 3.

  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    To be clear: I don't think the Mario games running on an emulator are anti-consumer, just disappointing and lazy. Nintendo could do better.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    To be clear: I don't think the Mario games running on an emulator are anti-consumer, just disappointing and lazy. Nintendo could do better.

    Yes, this. The limited release is the part that I find actually very bad and upsetting, the contents of the release are more along the lines of very unimpressive. The anniversary package is not worthy of the games it contains. The frickin' SpongeBob Bikini Bottom Remaster took the concerns of speed runners into account in their work because they were appreciative of receiving the fan attention. Nintendo is releasing emulators as a full price game and people are... fighting to defend how okay and cool that is to do?

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  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    For real though, what were people expecting? Ground up remakes of all 3 of these titles, with new models, textures, etc? All 3 of them, still for 60 bucks? That's completely unreasonable. I have yet to hear any actual reasonable expectations for what they should have done. The only legitimate gripe I think people have is that 64 isn't widescreen. Otherwise I think this is pretty much exactly what people should expect from a rerelease like this.

  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Ok, I’m dumb and I get that, but can someone break down for me what makes a re-release of a game an emulation versus a ‘real’ rerelease?

    Like, Sunshine and Galaxy aren’t exactly chopped liver in the looks department. Comparing them to freaking OG Spyro the Dragon and Crash Bandicoot is laughable. OF COURSE those games need a re-up. Have you actually played the remake of Spyro? It’s a fine game, but the game worlds are basically as complex as Wolfenstein 3D. Under all that HD modelling a very simple game environment.

    I just don’t get the comparisons, just like I don’t get why an emulation of a game is less than a remake.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Ok, I’m dumb and I get that, but can someone break down for me what makes a re-release of a game an emulation versus a ‘real’ rerelease?

    Like, Sunshine and Galaxy aren’t exactly chopped liver in the looks department. Comparing them to freaking OG Spyro the Dragon and Crash Bandicoot is laughable. OF COURSE those games need a re-up. Have you actually played the remake of Spyro? It’s a fine game, but the game worlds are basically as complex as Wolfenstein 3D. Under all that HD modelling a very simple game environment.

    I just don’t get the comparisons, just like I don’t get why an emulation of a game is less than a remake.

    An emulation isn't technically a remake. Nintendo made some software that plays the original games on Switch hardware, vs making the game again on a different system. It takes less work, which some people are annoyed about.

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  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    To be clear: I don't think the Mario games running on an emulator are anti-consumer, just disappointing and lazy. Nintendo could do better.

    Yes, this. The limited release is the part that I find actually very bad and upsetting, the contents of the release are more along the lines of very unimpressive. The anniversary package is not worthy of the games it contains. The frickin' SpongeBob Bikini Bottom Remaster took the concerns of speed runners into account in their work because they were appreciative of receiving the fan attention. Nintendo is releasing emulators as a full price game and people are... fighting to defend how okay and cool that is to do?

    They're releasing emulators as 1/3rd price games, just bundled together. If you feel that those games aren't worth $20 each, then just don't buy it.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    We still don't know what exactly is happening when Mario 35 and 3-D All Stars go away in six months. So I'm just going to sublimate my rage until then.

    My prediction is that Mario 64 gets removed from the bundle and replaced by Mario Galaxy 2 and Nintendo 64 games come to the concisely named Nintendo 64 Entertainment System Nintendo Switch Online Service.

    Along with Ocarina, Majora, F-Zero, Pilotwings, Excitebike, Star Fox, Ogre Battle, Paper Mario, Wave Race, Sin & Punishment, Kirby 64, Smash Bros, and Mischief Makers.

    ...

    I know, but 2020's been a shitshow. Let me dream.

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    Ok, I’m dumb and I get that, but can someone break down for me what makes a re-release of a game an emulation versus a ‘real’ rerelease?

    Like, Sunshine and Galaxy aren’t exactly chopped liver in the looks department. Comparing them to freaking OG Spyro the Dragon and Crash Bandicoot is laughable. OF COURSE those games need a re-up. Have you actually played the remake of Spyro? It’s a fine game, but the game worlds are basically as complex as Wolfenstein 3D. Under all that HD modelling a very simple game environment.

    I just don’t get the comparisons, just like I don’t get why an emulation of a game is less than a remake.

    An emulation isn't technically a remake. Nintendo made some software that plays the original games on Switch hardware, vs making the game again on a different system. It takes less work, which some people are annoyed about.

    So people are made because Nintendo isn’t reinventing the wheel. Got it.

    SageinaRageBrody
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    just give Bluepoint, Grezzo or M2 a couple of yen and they'll make you the best possible version of any game you want.

    Grezzo did a great job on OoT 3D but they kind of ruined Majora's Mask by making boosting while swimming consume the magic meter, along with a number of other nagging changes that make it the worst version of the game to some. A friend of mine refuses to play it.

    Kind of goes back to what I was talking about earlier. Do you want the game as it was with a few nice improvements on the side, or go more drastic and risk ruining the game?

    Mario 64 DS was itself in some ways a monkey's paw. Sure it's got all these improvements, but no analog stick or texture filtering.

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  • anoffdayanoffday To be changed whenever Anoffday gets around to it. Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    Just got a hori joy con with an actual d pad for my switch and I really like it. I actually want to play NES and SNES games in handheld mode now, and I'm sure it'll be good for modern games too like sonic mania. Started testing it out with blaster master and ended up playing it for almost a hour.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    Ok, I’m dumb and I get that, but can someone break down for me what makes a re-release of a game an emulation versus a ‘real’ rerelease?

    Like, Sunshine and Galaxy aren’t exactly chopped liver in the looks department. Comparing them to freaking OG Spyro the Dragon and Crash Bandicoot is laughable. OF COURSE those games need a re-up. Have you actually played the remake of Spyro? It’s a fine game, but the game worlds are basically as complex as Wolfenstein 3D. Under all that HD modelling a very simple game environment.

    I just don’t get the comparisons, just like I don’t get why an emulation of a game is less than a remake.

    An emulation isn't technically a remake. Nintendo made some software that plays the original games on Switch hardware, vs making the game again on a different system. It takes less work, which some people are annoyed about.

    So people are made because Nintendo isn’t reinventing the wheel. Got it.

    This phrasing might be an oversimplification, but mostly yeah.

    A comparison (which might be weird) is photorealistic paintings, where an artist takes a photo and reproduces it down to the tiniest detail, to where you'd never know it wasn't just a photo. But you've also got the original photo, and if that's really all you wanted then you could've just printed more.

    Often if you're going to port a game like this, you go all out and change a lot of things to the point where it might not even be recognizable anymore. New models, new textures, new content. Because you've got to do something more to justify the effort spent in the porting process. At that point you're more-or-less making a full remake.

    There would be no point in porting Mario 64 just to make it exactly like the original, as we're getting here.

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  • Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    Ok, I’m dumb and I get that, but can someone break down for me what makes a re-release of a game an emulation versus a ‘real’ rerelease?

    Like, Sunshine and Galaxy aren’t exactly chopped liver in the looks department. Comparing them to freaking OG Spyro the Dragon and Crash Bandicoot is laughable. OF COURSE those games need a re-up. Have you actually played the remake of Spyro? It’s a fine game, but the game worlds are basically as complex as Wolfenstein 3D. Under all that HD modelling a very simple game environment.

    I just don’t get the comparisons, just like I don’t get why an emulation of a game is less than a remake.

    An emulation isn't technically a remake. Nintendo made some software that plays the original games on Switch hardware, vs making the game again on a different system. It takes less work, which some people are annoyed about.

    So people are made because Nintendo isn’t reinventing the wheel. Got it.

    This phrasing might be an oversimplification, but mostly yeah.

    A comparison (which might be weird) is photorealistic paintings, where an artist takes a photo and reproduces it down to the tiniest detail, to where you'd never know it wasn't just a photo. But you've also got the original photo, and if that's really all you wanted then you could've just printed more.

    Often if you're going to port a game like this, you go all out and change a lot of things to the point where it might not even be recognizable anymore. New models, new textures, new content. Because you've got to do something more to justify the effort spent in the porting process. At that point you're more-or-less making a full remake.

    There would be no point in porting Mario 64 just to make it exactly like the original, as we're getting here.

    ...Except for the advantages of playing it on modern Nintendo hardware, which I’m sure is ground that is well covered at this point.

  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 16
    The emulation also puts it on modern Nintendo hardware. Someone pointed out that the small layer of emulation introduces a bit of lag, but the difference should be negligible if they did their diligence in creating the emulator. Reviews have not mentioned the games feeling "off" or laggy.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    Best buy just changed my status to getting ready! I am so ready to play through these games again!

    My only complaint about the collection is the lack of Super Mario Galaxy 2 which I personally enjoy more than the first game.

    I am hoping that means they have plans to either add it later or even sell it separately later.

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  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    After seeing multiple impression playthroughs of Galaxy, Galaxy 2's exclusion is 100% because of Yoshi and the more involved pointer controls. If you think about it, the game needs to play on a Switch Lite, so defacto handheld controls. All the pointer stuff is on the touchscreen, and there's no avoiding them, you will be either touching the screen or wiggling a controller, the game is chock full of them. Galaxy 1 can apparently get away with it because it's mostly just light work, menus and star bits and such. But a chief complaint people are having is that taking your hand off a controller to touch the screen is kind of clunky. There is just no way you're doing any of the extensive Yoshi stuff in 2 in handheld mode, not unless you grow a third appendage. If you wanted to be utterly insane, you could limit the game to docked mode and/or 100% require controllers. The size of the bricks that would be shit though would be a sight to behold.

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  • DaringDirkDaringDirk Daddy CEO Oakland, CARegistered User regular
    DaringDirk wrote: »
    In almost all of those cases, the creators of the official work SHOULD be shamed, though? Sonic 4 is laughable trash compared to Sonic Mania, and Sega clearly realized that when they hired the guy to make their game. Fallout has gone off a quality cliff and the fact that the mods are higher quality than the newest official release is basically just a symptom of that. Etc etc.

    I suppose it's your right to go around angry at the state of all modded/homebrew-enhanced media, I just don't see the point. Things should be enjoyed on their own merits.

    Like suppose no mods had ever been released for Mario 64, and then this release comes along exactly as it is. Does that make it better? Just because nobody else improved it previously?

    Pick a random game...Steamworld Dig. I have no idea whether anyone has modded Steamworld Dig. If there are no mods for it, does that make its Switch rerelease better?

    Also, keep in mind that Nintendo does consider all the 'fan' work to be illegal. You know, because it is. People have made illegal copies of their properties. They do not see this as a service. They do not see it as legitimate. And from that stance, the modded/homebrew-enhanced media should not exist.

    As a thought exercise, what if Nintendo was just coming from that perspective? And they assume the majority of their audience does not break the law? And, crazy thought, what if they're right? Is it possible that the true core Nintendo audience that the company is after is NOT the obsessed person who will break the law to download ROMs and emulators? Maybe they're making games for kids, or normies.

    that's 100% absolutely unquestionably factually objectively wrong. You can't distribute some things, but it's not illegal to mess around with stuff you bought. (or licensed).

    That's why there's many fan releases that require the original purchased data to work, like Doom source ports. They only give you a legal port of the source cod, you gotta provide the .wads with the levels and assets in them.

    why are so many gamers so eager to defend ACTUAL ANTI-CONSUMER practices. well not just gamers, but music and movie fans too.

    it's so weird that people keep arguing in favor of all the bullshit MPAA, RIAA, Apple, Google and publishers like EA and Activision wanna do.

    ...

    Oh, so then is it suddenly just hunky dory to talk about emulating games here on the PA forums? And is piracy okay now too? And I think you are making assumptions about what I mean by 'fans work, or do you just happen to know that any work I'm referring to must be legal?

    I need to leave this thread. I am 100% absolutely unquestionably factually objectively tired of this shit.

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  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    Maybe people wouldn't emulate if Nintendo didn't make the only way to play these games $60 with a limited release

  • Kai_SanKai_San Commonly known as Klineshrike! Registered User regular
    Crash and Spyro had 3 fully updated games somehow. Not sure why Nintendo games are their own magic category, but keep on stating that without actually arguing the point, I guess.

    Hate to play devils advocate on this, cause this argument kind of sucks.

    But, I mean to be honest, games like Crash and Spyro NEEDED to do it that way. Mario has name recognition power so far beyond those that it isn't even funny. That alone is why Nintendo can get away with doing it this way, and QUITE successfully.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Crippl3 wrote: »
    Maybe people wouldn't emulate if Nintendo didn't make the only way to play these games $60 with a limited release

    Mario 64 has been playable on every console AND handheld Nintendo has released since the N64 except for the GBA and GameCube.

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  • Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    Can we just stop this and agree that we need Sega to remaster Crazy Taxi on the Switch because I'd really like it portable (other than on the PSP).

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    We've gone in circles over this, and it's fine. People are either super stoked to give Nintendo money again for games we all played and beat decades ago because nostalgia, or you're one of the people who knows they can and have done better in the past. Nintendo is the one who set the precedent for remaking their own games. The original All-Stars was literally that, remaking all the original Marios, updated to a more modern style! It showed they knew people loved the games and didn't just wanna rebuy Mario 1-3 again. They even gave us the Lost Levels. Look at Ocarina or Majora's remakes, look at Mario 64 DS (which had way more work put in for a handheld release). Look at Link's Awakening or any number of re-released Nintendo products they have gone above and beyond to recreate.

    The impact and legacy of these games cannot be understated. They were always gonna sell well when re-released because they are beloved titles, and that along is worth 60 bucks to some. And that's dope, honestly. I just for the life of me can't understand people going to bat for Nintendo for this one. By all means, buy and enjoy the game, but don't pretend they did you any favors. They could have launched the Virtual Console day and date with the switch launch and had every first party N64 and GameCube game on there if they wanted to, but they clearly don't. They make more vaulting stuff and giving everyone the amazing opportunity of "giving Nintendo money" only once in a while, and it only seems to pay off so, voting with your wallet is a joke and an empty phrase in this situation.

    I'm extremely tempted to get my switch modded so I can just enjoy the games I have sitting in storage anyways, without having to buy them again, just for the privilege to enjoy games I already own

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  • KizmittKizmitt Registered User regular
    Release the timesplitters emulator trilogy already.
    I dont need it reanythinged. I just dont want to have to buy another multitap.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    My big hope is that this release make GameCube Sunshine a little bit cheaper so I can replace mine.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    We've gone in circles over this, and it's fine. People are either super stoked to give Nintendo money again for games we all played and beat decades ago because nostalgia, or you're one of the people who knows they can and have done better in the past.

    It doesn't need to be couched in these terms that elevate a particular viewpoint over another as having "knowledge" that the others can't see because of their blind nostalgia.

    I mean there are those out there who would say that anyone who plays anything on a Switch, period, are only doing so out of blind allegiance to Nintendo, while other people "know" that the technology of the Playstation is far superior and more advanced, and the only enlightened view is one that abandons kiddy Mario and plays real games like the Last of Us 2.

    Phrasing it this way really isn't far off from that. If that mode of statement isn't valid, then this one wouldn't be either. You can simply leave it at people being able to enjoy whatever they want, and value things at whatever they are willing to pay. If people want to consider it as Nintendo having done them some sort of favor, that viewpoint is 100% as valid as yours.

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Again, cutting up the post to address the one point you want to is goosey, the entire context for what I said is right below what you quoted but you left it out, probably out of laziness just like how Nintendo went with this barebones port out of laziness. Any time the development team hit the smallest snag, they just didn't do it. Wide screen for Mario 64 isn't even a Herculean task, but people still defend it. My mind.. it boggles.

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  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular
    DaringDirk wrote: »
    DaringDirk wrote: »
    In almost all of those cases, the creators of the official work SHOULD be shamed, though? Sonic 4 is laughable trash compared to Sonic Mania, and Sega clearly realized that when they hired the guy to make their game. Fallout has gone off a quality cliff and the fact that the mods are higher quality than the newest official release is basically just a symptom of that. Etc etc.

    I suppose it's your right to go around angry at the state of all modded/homebrew-enhanced media, I just don't see the point. Things should be enjoyed on their own merits.

    Like suppose no mods had ever been released for Mario 64, and then this release comes along exactly as it is. Does that make it better? Just because nobody else improved it previously?

    Pick a random game...Steamworld Dig. I have no idea whether anyone has modded Steamworld Dig. If there are no mods for it, does that make its Switch rerelease better?

    Also, keep in mind that Nintendo does consider all the 'fan' work to be illegal. You know, because it is. People have made illegal copies of their properties. They do not see this as a service. They do not see it as legitimate. And from that stance, the modded/homebrew-enhanced media should not exist.

    As a thought exercise, what if Nintendo was just coming from that perspective? And they assume the majority of their audience does not break the law? And, crazy thought, what if they're right? Is it possible that the true core Nintendo audience that the company is after is NOT the obsessed person who will break the law to download ROMs and emulators? Maybe they're making games for kids, or normies.

    that's 100% absolutely unquestionably factually objectively wrong. You can't distribute some things, but it's not illegal to mess around with stuff you bought. (or licensed).

    That's why there's many fan releases that require the original purchased data to work, like Doom source ports. They only give you a legal port of the source cod, you gotta provide the .wads with the levels and assets in them.

    why are so many gamers so eager to defend ACTUAL ANTI-CONSUMER practices. well not just gamers, but music and movie fans too.

    it's so weird that people keep arguing in favor of all the bullshit MPAA, RIAA, Apple, Google and publishers like EA and Activision wanna do.

    ...

    Oh, so then is it suddenly just hunky dory to talk about emulating games here on the PA forums? And is piracy okay now too? And I think you are making assumptions about what I mean by 'fans work, or do you just happen to know that any work I'm referring to must be legal?

    I need to leave this thread. I am 100% absolutely unquestionably factually objectively tired of this shit.

    You can be objectively tired of this shit all you want but they're right. Emulators are legal, the forums just doesn't allow talking about them because they tend to involve discussion of piracy, which isn't. The Mario 64 PC port doesn't use any Nintendo assets and doesn't function unless provided with a source ROM. Which if you've pulled it off your own cart, is legal. Modding, also legal unless you're redistributing code or assets.

    (and if emulators were illegal 3D All Stars would be illegal :P)

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Again, cutting up the post to address the one point you want to is goosey

    I would ask you to stop with this too. People are free to address any part of any post they like. I could say you're failing to address the entirety of my posts as well, picking and choosing what you want to ignore. You bring up how amazing the original All-Stars was, and how great Majora's Mask 3D was, when I already pointed out across several posts that these releases fundamentally altered the games in ways that others saw as worse. All-Stars introduced a bug to SMB1 and Lost Levels that breaks their physics, and Majora's Mask introduces harsh limitations on swim speed for no reason. It's for reasons like these that there is value in releasing the games as close to how they were originally presented as possible.

    Of course I see it as completely your choice as to whether you need to comment on these things or not, but now you're making it an issue that everyone needs to address every part of every post in context, in perpetuity. I can't agree with that.

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    I'm hoping they patch 16:9 support for Mario 64. There's no good reason for letterboxing it.

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    Local H JayJazz
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    Again, cutting up the post to address the one point you want to is goosey

    I would ask you to stop with this too. People are free to address any part of any post they like. I could say you're failing to address the entirety of my posts as well, picking and choosing what you want to ignore. You bring up how amazing the original All-Stars was, and how great Majora's Mask 3D was, when I already pointed out across several posts that these releases fundamentally altered the games in ways that others saw as worse. All-Stars introduced a bug to SMB1 and Lost Levels that breaks their physics, and Majora's Mask introduces harsh limitations on swim speed for no reason. It's for reasons like these that there is value in releasing the games as close to how they were originally presented as possible.

    Of course I see it as completely your choice as to whether you need to comment on these things or not, but now you're making it an issue that everyone needs to address every part of every post in context, in perpetuity. I can't agree with that.

    All I'm saying is you keep trying to just address one single thought made in a post when my reasoning for what I said is right below. Why try to take my to task on one point just to ignore the rest of the salient points I've made to back it up?

    Those small issues are things I'd literally never have noticed in my playthroughs. It's the nitpickiest of nitpicks. I'd rather have full remakes with some small bugs, then a shoddy emulation job with a handful of textures swapped and they called it a day. Many many remakes offer both the original unaltered versions and a prettier, updated version. Why is it ok to get neither and a quite lazy port job with not even the bare minimum of improvements included? Why is okay for you to handwave lag introduced by emulating but focus so much on small imperfections from the remakes I've mentioned? Look at Halo Anniversary/Master Chief Collection, look at the Crash or Spyro Collection, literally almost any modern port job worth it's salt. Tell me why Nintendo couldn't or wouldn't do that for literally their single biggest franchise (actually maybe Pokemon but you get the idea). People equate Mario with Nintendo. Now I equate Mario remakes with Nintendo's laziness.

    See what I'm doing here? Responding to the whole post and not just one sentence?

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  • agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    Nintendo heard from their uncle that it's legal to sell roms if you delete them after 6 months.

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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    All I'm saying is you keep trying to just address one single thought made in a post when my reasoning for what I said is right below. Why try to take my to task on one point just to ignore the rest of the salient points I've made to back it up?

    Partly because I don't see them as salient points, but I recognize that people in this thread don't want to read an elaborate deconstruction of every detail of every sentence you write. I'm sure you're aware of the phenomenon of taking a post and breaking it down line-by-line in individual quotes and responses, and how it justifiably is often met with "hey you. Stop that."

    Sometimes a blanket statement is going to have to be taken as "I read what you wrote and generally disagree with most of it, but won't elaborate," and that's going to have to be enough.

    If you insist on more...
    Those small issues are things I'd literally never have noticed in my playthroughs. It's the nitpickiest of nitpicks. I'd rather have full remakes with some small bugs, then a shoddy emulation job with a handful of textures swapped and they called it a day. Many many remakes offer both the original unaltered versions and a prettier, updated version. Why is it ok to get neither and a quite lazy port job with not even the bare minimum of improvements included? Why is okay for you to handwave lag introduced by emulating but focus so much on small imperfections from the remakes I've mentioned? Look at Halo Anniversary/Master Chief Collection, look at the Crash or Spyro Collection, literally almost any modern port job worth it's salt. Tell me why Nintendo couldn't or wouldn't do that for literally their single biggest franchise (actually maybe Pokemon but you get the idea). People equate Mario with Nintendo. Now I equate Mario remakes with Nintendo's laziness.

    Changes in ports and version differences aren't nitpicks. Like I said, a friend of mine sees Majora's changes as an absolute dealbreaker, and it's definitely something that everyone would notice in comparing the two releases. I would wager not a single person argues that the swimming change is good. And it wasn't a bug, it was an intentional decision, like the rest of the alterations they made to the game. Who knows? If Grezzo had a hand in remaking Mario 64, maybe likewise the triple jump would be tied to some new stamina meter, and everyone would just have to deal with that.

    I mean, even looking at this release of Mario 64. This is Japan's Shindou version, which patched the backwards long jump glitch. I guarantee you there are speed runners who will write off this game because of it. And this isn't even a remake, just a minor version difference! It makes all the difference in the world to some people, and their reasons are valid. I don't like All-Stars simply due to the graphics and sound changes, original SMB2 is superior to me in every way.

    Why do you keep asking for more and more? Now in order for this release to not be classified as lazy, it should include both the original version of Mario 64 and a full-on remake? It's beginning to sound like nothing would satisfy.

    Why am I "handwaving lag" when any lag (if it exists) is literally impacting no one's enjoyment, judging by every early impression, whereas all the version differences I brought up regularly come up in conversation about those versions? They're well known issues. This handwaved lag is not.

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  • MulletudeMulletude Registered User regular
    How bout them Nintendo games you guys, m i rite

    This thread is exhausting

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  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Just nevermind

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  • Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    Is it weird they added full screen to Sunshine and Galaxy, but not 64?

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